2 guys bring me 431 international bf of logs they were given. These Pine logs had been laying in the damp, swampy, shaded woods for 4 years.
When I see and unload these logs......I never said a word, I just let them talk.
I gave them my price to saw them based on 1 inch thickness.
Then they say.....we want our boards ½" thick x wide to use as paneling in a hunting cabin. I still......don't say a word.
So the price I gave is now doubled since I'm sawing ½"......they said, that's fine.
When I put the cant hook in the first log, I thought it was gonna go all the way through the log!
In fact, after sawing a cant of boards, I had to pick the whole stack up by hand. If I were to pick up 1 board at a time, it would fall apart.
EVERY log I sawed smelled like SULFER. I have never smelled this in a log but then again, this is my first time sawing soft, swampy Pine.
The customers picked up their lumber this afternoon, gave me a $15.00 tip......and they were happy. You could not have given me this junk......but I never said a word.......the customer never ask me anything, he had cash and in my book, he was right! :)
Check out the pics.
Here are some of the SOFT logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0514.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0511.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0512.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0513.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0515.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0516.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0517.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0519.JPG)
Goodness ... well I gotta say, you cut it beautifully though. Nice and flat and consistent. ;D I bet it cut like butter.
I recently milled a bunch of ERC for a customer. Went through all the good sized stuff, and then he starts lining up 6-8" "logs", wants them milled to 1/2". I advised him that it wasn't really worth the time ($), but he insisted. Said that if he didn't get them milled he'd have to haul them to the mulch yard.
He had me come back about two weeks later and mill some more. He said that he appreciated my honesty. This time I was able to convince him that some of the spruce logs were just too rotted to bother with.
I'd rather lose a little billable work than have someone look back later and get pithed at me for charging them for milling junk.
There are only two rules, #1 the customer/boss is always right #2 the customer/boss is always right
It doesn't look that bad. Maybe it's because you did such a good milling it. Way to turn trash to treasure! smiley_clapping
Looks like nasty stuff to me. However, if they wanted it for paneling it may be just what they wanted.
I won't saw anything unless my customer knows exactly what I think he will get. There are enough unhappy people out there without me making any more.
At least he didn't want to cut structural lumber from those logs. That could be dangerous! :o
You do some nice work David. Wish you lived closer to me. Would be happy to refer work your way. I only cut from my building, but get a lot of calls for people looking for mobile cutting.
I would have told them (nicely) the logs were junk. If they still insisted on having them sawn, then I would have obliged.
OK, I guess I will be the butthole here.
I think you did them a huge dis-service by not advising them that the wood was too far gone and will be worthless even as paneling.
I would equate it to a mechanic changing brakes on a car that doesn't need them just because the owner heard a sqeak. Essentially you took advantage of their ignorance.
Not something I would be bragging about on a forum.
Just my non-important 2 cents.
Quote from: Tree Feller on October 25, 2012, 08:46:53 PM
I would have told them (nicely) the logs were junk. If they still insisted on having them sawn, then I would have obliged.
He knew EXACTLY what they were.....but his response with a big smile, FREE LOGS!
[
If they loaded the logs and they knew how long they laid in the woods i'm guessing they new they weren't going to get premium lumber out of them. They stated it was going in a cabin. I've told people there wood was junk before and they got afended. Now, if they bring it, I saw it.
Those were some ugly logs, David.
Quote from: clww on October 25, 2012, 09:07:34 PM
Those were some ugly logs, David.
:D And I've said before.....I love ugly logs.
DanG!! I had my trailer all loaded with logs just like those, ready to bring them down for you to saw. Now what am I going to do? :)
-lee
Quote from: SPD748 on October 25, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
DanG!! I had my trailer all loaded with logs just like those, ready to bring them down for you to saw. Now what am I going to do? :)
-lee
I know 2 guys that might buy them. :D
If you like ugly, then you should be happy :D.
I once took a rotten oak log off the mill. When the customer came to pick up his lumber he had me put it back on the mill and saw it.
Geeezzz, That may be a new fad " Rotty Pine Paneling" !!
UN
Quote from: UN Hooker on October 25, 2012, 10:52:08 PM
Geeezzz, That may be a new fad " Rotty Pine Paneling" !!
UN
It's the new walnut!
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Joe: "Wow, George, where did you get that paneling? It's gorgeous! I've never seen anything like it! What is it?"
George: "They call it 'Rotty Pine'. Don't touch."
These guys have been customers of mine for almost 2 years. I have milled their JUNK before and this is not my first rodeo with them. In fact these guys are my friends.
I cannot say how they described their own logs when they arrive.......Jeff will not allow it.
I'm the only mill they have found that will saw their "prized treasures" for them. Both of my friends are top notch carpenters and they both knew the condition of the logs. I have hit metal in their logs before, a number of times.....but they know the consequences.....and they pay.
My point was these guys new what they had.....knew what they wanted........and got what they asked for. I just wanted to share a few pics of what a lot of sawyers have to go through.
They were very excited to get the good out of the bad from this load. They'll be back Tuesday with more of the same logs. :)
Now, I'm gonna go eat me a bowl of GRITS..... :) smiley_horserider
I resawed some timbers like that for paneling a while back. Some were solid, some were so-so, and some were just junk. When we got down far enough in the pile, when the owner tried to pick one up with his fork truck it fell apart. That was where we stopped. :D
Well the fact that they were friends changes things. I thought they were strangers and you were just out to get their $$. I apologize for "dissing" you.
Fortunately, it is a federal felony for me to do many of the things a customer wants. No matter how much money. :)
We take it on a case by case basis. The first thing we ask is, what do you want out of it? If the logs will never yield what they want, we tell them so, and explain why. Then we ask about them being yard trees, and metal charges. If it obviously has metal in them, we won't do it. That can be a bit of a subjective thing. A spot on the end of an oak log does not always mean you hit metal. We have refused to saw before. Not often, but once in awhile.
Quote from: Brad_S. on October 26, 2012, 03:33:52 PM
Well the fact that they were friends changes things. I thought they were strangers and you were just out to get their $$. I apologize for "dissing" you.
If I'm ever out to get someone's money, it wouldn't be with a sawmill. :)
I'd use 'Ol Trusty Rusty, my 45 HK. But I'm not that kind of a guy.
No offense taken Brad. I just didn't give enough details and thats why I clarified my relationship with my customers.
David
Ya know, they may know exactly what they have and got exactly what they wanted. Mr. Tom introduced me to "pecky cypress" when I was down visiting him one time. The stuff looked to me like it would just fall apart, but Tom said it was all the rage for use as paneling. It doesn't have to have any strength properties other than the ability to hold itself together on the wall. Just sayin, maybe its perfect.
Pecky Cypress is one of my all time favorite woods. I love it on a wall or a ceiling. It's as holy as switch cheese, but I'll tell you what ... you can't hardly afford to buy the stuff ...if you're lucky enough to find it. Jeff may be right.
I could not have held my tongue. I would at least want to disclose my experience opinion of what they would get, in a professional way. That way at least they could not complain and try to stiff you if they were not happy with the stuff....if you warned them.
As I understand it, they were laughing at David because of how bad the wood was that they brought him :).
I love the Forum.....and I say "THE"....because there ain't but one. Ya'll have expressed every feeling I could possibly imagine about this thread. :)
Trust me......these guys knew what condition these logs were in and they're bring more and they have had more of this type of lumber sawn before in the past.
They loaded every piece of this stuff by hand.....looking at every blue streak, beetle hole and decay spots.
As they loaded, they told me where each piece would go in the cabin. The lumber was actually pretty in places and the bad parts will me cut out.
These 2 guys have been carpenters longer than I have been a sawyer and I'm not ashamed to say........know a whole lot more about lumber than me.
They had a plan.....they found the logs they wanted, had them sawn and will probably have one of the prettiest cabins I've ever seen. And more of these logs are on the way. :) :) :)
Quote from: WDH on October 25, 2012, 10:20:03 PM
If you like ugly, then you should be happy :D.
WOW Did this go right over his HEAD? ??? ;) ;D
Quote from: WDH on October 27, 2012, 08:01:55 AM
As I understand it, they were laughing at David because of how bad the wood was that they brought him :).
smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup
You're right WDH.....but some people just don't get it.
Jeff was actually the one that hit the nail on the head.
Quote from: LOGDOG on October 26, 2012, 09:41:31 PM
Pecky Cypress is one of my all time favorite woods. I love it on a wall or a ceiling. It's as holy as switch cheese, but I'll tell you what ... you can't hardly afford to buy the stuff ...if you're lucky enough to find it. Jeff may be right.
Dang I didnt know that. Ive got a couple hundred bf of of that exact cyprus cut 5/4 I could run it through my resaw an get a bunch of 9/16 out of it. How much can I get for it if I plane it and tounge and v groove it?
David,
Is there a chance you can take pictures of what they do with the wood? The interior of the cabin and such so folks here can see? Creativity is something that not everyone is blessed with. It's like some of those knobby pieces of wood that you take and turn into absolutely gorgeous furniture .... a lot of loggers might put them in the slash pile. An artist can take absolute junk and turn it into a beautiful work of art. I hope we get to see these guy's work when they're done.
Quote from: Solomon on October 27, 2012, 10:28:52 AM
Quote from: LOGDOG on October 26, 2012, 09:41:31 PM
Pecky Cypress is one of my all time favorite woods. I love it on a wall or a ceiling. It's as holy as switch cheese, but I'll tell you what ... you can't hardly afford to buy the stuff ...if you're lucky enough to find it. Jeff may be right.
Dang I didnt know that. Ive got a couple hundred bf of of that exact cyprus cut 5/4 I could run it through my resaw an get a bunch of 9/16 out of it. How much can I get for it if I plane it and tounge and v groove it?
I'd leave it thick Solomon ... so it stays together. Don't plane it. Don't tongue and groove it. Just advertise it. When I've had it, I could almost name my price for it. You're quite a ways away from me for that small amount. Otherwise I'd take it off your hands. If it were me, I probably wouldn't sell it. I'd use it. ;)
Here are some of the finished product they left. They had a load and will pick up the rest Tuesday.
Notice the breaks on top and bottoms of the boards......this is where the logs were wet all the way through.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0522.JPG)
Where the boards were dry, they are solid.....however, one can still take a board and snap it into......they had it sawn ½" thick.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0523.JPG)
The face of the boards are really fuzzy and these guys are gonna leave it this way. And I agree......for my personal preference, I wouldn't dare run a sander over these boards.
As Jeff stated, this wood doesn't need to have strength properties, this is not structural lumber. Its for a beautiful old vintage look. This will make some gorgeous paneling. I don't know their time line on getting this paneling up because they stay busy as carpenters. But I will try my best to get finished pics of the cabin.
I just wish I knew what my customers knew about these logs years ago......we used to push logs like this up in a pile and burn them......but then again, back then, I didn't have my mill.
You can learn a lot from a customer, if sometimes you just be quite and listen. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/DSCN0524.JPG)
And now we return you to your regular programing of Grits and Grease Guns. :D
One of my investment clients about 9 years ago was a cabinet maker. He asked me if I could find him some worm hole pine. I had some but it really wasn't pronounced. I asked him what he was going to do with it. He said he was going to make a rustic vanity with a mirror for his sister-in-law as a present. I told him I had something better. I brought him several 16' long 12" wide pecky cypress boards that were a nice rich chocolate color. Real pronounced pecky. He nearly wet himself when he walked around to the back of my truck. I gave it to him as a gift. His family were good clients. He made that vanity out of all those boards, found an antique mallard decoy that was in good shape but showed the years of use, split it down the middle lengthwise and put one half on each of the cabinet doors on the front of the vanity. Then he had a mirror inset in the top of the hutch. I wish I had gotten a picture of it. He said when he presented his sister-in-law with it she cried and was overwhelmed with it's uniqueness. This is the type of thing that will make you money. Trying to compete by sawing grade hardwoods on volume in this day and age is a losing battle.
On the other hand...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/wsredoaklog20121028.jpg)
Here is a red oak log that is 14' long and squared out about 16"x16". Customer wants 1x6 fencing lumber made from it. It sawed FAS right down to the center of the cob! He made three 14' logs from the same tree. The second log was clear too. The third log was pretty nice.
This old German has some of the best oak timber in the area and about a mile of nice board fence around his house, barn and lots. All of it made from super nice stuff. He is a retired carpenter and has a well equipped woodwork shop. But instead of cutting and sawing his own lumber for cabinet work, he buys it. We've looked through what he's bought and it's nowhere as nice as what he uses for fence lumber.
A few years back a large 3ph power line was built through his farm cutting about 100' right of way through some real nice white oak. A local logger cut the veneer and stave timber but left hundreds of nice tall, straight white oak that was too small. These trees would still make a lot of fencing lumber. Lumber we had a good market for at the time. We wanted to buy or trade out some log for sawing but the ol'fart didn't think them worth it. He needed firewood. Most of it was just bulldozed up and burn.
Quote from: Bibbyman on October 28, 2012, 02:38:28 AM
Most of it was just bulldozed up and burn.
smiley_sick Don't that just make ya sick.
Thanks Logdog.. The cyprus I have seems structurely sound. It has nicely spaced or "patterned" spots all over it with that fuzz y look that give it kind of a lepord spotted look to it . I date my lumber when I sticker it up. It's dated 08 NOV 2011. Its been inside in my shop for what will be a year here in about two weeks.
I will try to advise the customers but sometimes they know more than I do. At this point you just turn and start sawing.
"OK, we can try that and see what happens" is something I sometimes say, after going a couple of rounds.
Caveat emptor.
"Let the buyer beware". :)
I explain to the customer once, and then start sawing. They generally have an idea what their intentions are and I am not always right.
Quote from: customsawyer on October 28, 2012, 04:55:32 PM
I will try to advise the customers but sometimes they know more than I do. At this point you just turn and start sawing.
smiley_thumbsup
I had this knothead bring me these dead standing red oak, all the sapwood rotted off, he didn't even know what he wanted sawn out of them. So we went with 1x material. Full of bug holes. Then he left it stickered in my yard for over a year, comes up with the idea finally that he wants it made into "rustic" flooring ::) So, I haul it 80 miles to a custom kiln drying and planing outfit. Get it back, then he wants me to install it too >:( Oh, did I mention this knothead is ME :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/2012-10-29_22-16-33_847.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/2012-10-29_22-15-54_51.jpg)
I love it. I also loved the "gotcha" at the end. :D
Holie wood!!!! nice floor. I make a good use out of those dead trees too. I try to get them before the bark starts to flake off and before the 1'' branches start to fall off and they make some real nice lumber and cants. Plus no one can fault you for cutting a dead tree. It aint like I killed it! PC
Beautiful Barbender. Did you and your customer get along installing this floor? :)
I bet that knothead is a hard dude to work for :D :D. Nice job!
Through his whole post, I was ??? , trying to think, I don't remember doing those things!
Actually, though I am the "knothead" in the story (and many others come to think of it ::)) the real customer in the end would be Mrs. Barbender, and she like ;) I should probably start a new thread on our house project, there is a lot of "character" wood being used in it. Like the White pine T&G ceiling, had it sawn 11 years ago (before I had a mill), it sat stickered but uncovered for 2 years, got it planed then it sat under an open shed until it got installed last winter. The pine got a lot of brown stain from getting wet, then after it was planed some of the ends were exposed in the stack and got sun stained. I cleaned it up and danG if it don't look purty. I wouldn't recommend my methods, BTW, but once in a while in the chaos of having too many irons in the fire I pull out a winner ;D