Happy Holidays everybody!
Santa didn't bring me a Wood-Mizer or a TimberKing this year, but he did bring me a company mandated week and a half off from work (forced to use my own vacation time >:()
My recent obsession with this forum and saw milling in general was *just* starting to decline a bit since i couldn't justify the purchase of a mill and my experience with the Beam Machine has been a frustrating afair. Then last week a wind storm knocked over another one of my trees. I couldn't let it go to waste so i started thinking about what i could build to help cut some boards with my chainsaw.
I have no welding equipment or skills so a proper build was not an option. What i did have was a ladder, a door hinge, some 2x4's and an old skateboard. With a rough idea of what i wanted, I started building. A few days later - to my astonishment - i had something that looked like it might actually work. This video was my first ever attempt at running it through a small log.
Althought it was a very slow process and there were some problems, the resulting cut was surprisingly smooth. I'm sure this contraption will not hold up well over time, but hopefully i can cut up the logs i've got laying around the yard and get some reasonable boards out of them.
http://youtu.be/57ogwrcuNx4
Take Care,
Joe
Where there is a will, there is a way!
I like it. Nice job
Quote from: haywire woodlot on December 27, 2012, 12:07:37 PM
Where there is a will, there is a way!
Where there is a will, there is a mill.
I amazed Joe. I'll be the first to stand up and give you a big hand. You did a good job. 8)
Now that's imagination at work.
It really worked nice and you were ending up with some useful boards!
Great job Joe smiley_thumbsup
You can probably make some wood bunks to put between the rungs to keep the weight off of the ladder. A big log may damage it
Just got to see what's inside the log. One thing about it, you'll never run out of trees to saw. You've got the dust bug now.
A set of wooden shims to act as toe boards might save some waste. Great Job!! Good use of the ole' noodle!!!
I'm impressed. Nice tinkering!
Thanks for the encouragment guys. I'm still waiting for comments telling me i'm an idiot and how dangerous this thing is. I'm sure they'll arrive shortly :D
I'm hoping after a few little fixes this thing will be worth the time i spent building it (and the $20 i spent on materials ;) )
That's a good idea Dan. The logs i have to work with are pretty small so i don't think the ladder is at too much risk, but see my comment below. This ladder was left at my house by the previous owners when we moved in. It has been hung up on the wall of the garage for 5+ years now and this is the first time i've ever used it for anything. I've got a 'Little Giant" ladder that i use for everything around the house - it's easier to carry around and has a wider, more stable base.
One related issue to your suggestion is that the saw bar won't get any lower than maybe 4 or 6 inches from the bottom of a log loaded onto the ladder. This was poor design on my part (or should i say "no design"). As a result, i expect i will have to rig something up that raises the log a bit relative to the ladder rungs. I had thought to run a few 2x4's down the length of the ladder and make something like a trough that the log would lay in and elevate it a few inches. Supporting the logs from the ground instead of the ladder presents a problem with the ladder tipping over sideways under the weight of my ridiculous wooden carrier. Guess i could weigh it down in other ways though.
<edit> I think rwthom picked up on my waste issue... </edit>
Other problem with this first cut was that the saw was not held securely at the desired height and the depth of the cut got lower and lower as i pulled through... sad, as it wasted a fair bit of this log. Next time i have to ensure the saw height is secure and the bar cutting parallel with the ladder/log.
I'll post some more videos or pics as progress continues with this experiment.
Thanks,
Joe
Everything has to start somewhere :P :P Now you understand WD-40 = Water displacement 40th attempt ;D ;D
Is there any place local where you can get a good look at a grandburg Alaskan Sawmill. If not I can get you some pics. Their saw mounting system could be built without welding and fairly cheap. I belive anchoring end of bar is going to be nessary. But it appears you are on right track to makeing a worthwile mill. next thing will be collecting an assortment of board scraps to shim log to compensate for log taper. As far as saftey looks safer than beam machine to me lots less exposure to chain. Years back I built a wind mill out of the darndest bunch of junk ever assembled ;D ;D Must have redesinged it 20 times before it worked so don;t get discouraged. Got to admit skateboard Idea is one up on me :) ;)
lowpolyjoe, not to shabby man, I have only seen a few chain saw mills run, and they look brutal. But still that is pretty cool stuff. I can only imagine the sawdust that is being burned by some after looking at your design. have a happy new year, david
That's some creative thinking! I love it! 8) 8) 8)
Hey Joe,
I love it! ;D..They said it couldn't be done but you done it anyway.
That is pretty cool. I like the feed system, simple but functional. It looks like your $20 investment might pay off.
Let's see more videos. 8)
Alan
Very creative!
Quote from: lowpolyjoe on December 27, 2012, 01:02:10 PM
Thanks for the encouragment guys. I'm still waiting for comments telling me i'm an idiot and how dangerous this thing is. I'm sure they'll arrive shortly :D
One thing about the FF... The members on here are apt to help with suggestions for improvement or safety. But unlike other forums, your friends here are way to civilized to resort to name calling... 8)
With the amount of effort put into your mill both building it and using it when you do get your manual band mill it will seam effortless 8)
At least you are the sawyer from day one, and you didn't have to off-bear for months or years before you got to run the mill. Good Luck, and Regards, Clark
way to go Joe,
looks like it works pretty good
Now that's makin' it happen. 8) Way to go Joe!
I'm sure you already know this from being on the FF, but there are specialty chains available for ripping that might make it go a little faster.
Well if no one else will say it then I will, this is the most ridiculous contraption I have ever seen, why would any normal person even try such a thing? Clearly it is obvious that one needs an old scafold set for the slabs to go in ;D and an old paint bucket to move the sawdust out of the way ;D I found myself today trying my hand at rip sawing today with my 362 8) Got to love a few days off to work off the carbs from the last few days :D
Enjoyed watching the youtube post. Amazed at how simple the operation was. Keep up the good work!
That is what I call using your head for something other than holding a helmet. :D
Very nice work. Every day a person spends milling is a opportunity to learn something.
NOW that a good job, keep it up smiley_thumbsup
regrind your chain to a rip pattern, get a throttle cable from an old lawn mower and make a throttle folcrum! ditch the hand feed crank, and light feed it by hand.
Id make a few clamps to hold it steady and your feed rate will improve!
You will find that you will cut better by not running wide open throttle, usually only about 1/2 to 3/4 throttle.
Take a look at my photos in my gallery. I built my csm.
Ain't that something. 8)
Of course a little orange paint would put the finishing touches on it.
YH
Who'd ah thunk it. You took nothing and turned it into a way to possible square up a log into a cant and then build yourself a log cabin. Very innovative for sure. :)
Wow - thanks for all the great feedback guys.
A rip chain (or grind) is something rattling around in my head... but i'm already $20 over budget so i dunno ;)
Throttle cable and fulcrum setup is a great idea. I had considered walking behind the head and pushing it while holding the throttle open with a small clamp or something... i rejected the idea as stupidity. Have to see if i can scrounge a throttle cable somewhere. I'll also try running less than full throttle next time i cut
Orange paint is a great idea too ;D
As a side note to this thread, my alternative plan was to take an old electric motor i had laying around and try to build a band-saw-mill with it. After a bunch of research, i decided the motor was probably too weak so i switched to work my plans around my chainsaw... which, ironically, is also pretty weak :D
Joe, have you ever seen this guy, makes all his tools out of wood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4jzl7lH75g&list=PLCE50CF6354B2BE06
he has one video of a wooden bandsaw.
Joe
Fred here, formerly from West Milford NJ. That chainsaw sled is awesome. Really like to see people come up with designs like that. Very impressive for something built from common 2 x 4's.
Well deserved slabs you have there, congratulations. 8) 8)
I think it is a great prototype. Lots of the old mills were mostly wood with steel bolted on for wear and strength. Don't be too in love with any part of your design if you think a change will improve it and keep tweaking it.
joe,i have a feeling this will not be your last sawmill.....
albert
Joe,
look at procut saw mills. You could very easily build a better version based on some of the designs of this type mill. Most everything could be scounged from the scap pile, and be built out of wood. Early designs of big circle mills were built out of wood with only the blade and shafts themselves being metal.
You've shown you have a head on your shoulders and saw dust in your viens. Keep working at it and you can build a little mill that has some adjustment for cutting height.
For some one like you that only needs a mill for a few times this is awsome. Good job. and keep tinkering.
FB
Awesome piece of Yankee ingenuity!! Being comprised mostly of wood, modifications will be relatively easy, and soon you will have a nice hobby mill for really low $$! Great job on the video BTW, can't wait to see the next version!
This is an old wooden sawmill that's in the Kauri Musuem here in NZ.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/ianab_kauri_museum_sawmill.jpg)
It's a sash saw, basically like a 2 man pit saw in a powered frame. Takes very little power to run, this was hooked to a ~4hp steam engine. Could be run off a water wheel or similar. OK the speed isn't fast, but it will gnaw it's way though a pretty big log given time.
Nothing hi-tech about this sort of mill. It worked 100 years ago, it would still work today.
Ian
Tom L - I haven't seen that guy's videos. Good looking craftsmanship. But i did see two other people on YouTube who built a bandsaw out of wood. Great idea. I still might do that but i think the motor i salvaged from an old vacuum isn't going to have the guts to cut much.
Albert - i am worried i will somehow end up building and/or buying another mill :) I'm really trying not to, since i barely have any wood to cut, nowhere to store it, and not enought free time to work on this hobby.
Fuzzybear - thanks for the Procut reference. That setup would be ideal if i had a bigger saw with a longer bar. I originally hoped to secure the bar tip as well as the body of the chainsaw to ensure things stayed straight and level. Unfortunately i'm running 55cc saw with an 18" bar. I decided i couldn't give up the extra few inches needed for a clamp (or a threaded-rod-through-bolt) to secure the bar tip. My cuts today exercised every last millimeter of the bar. Two cuts had to be pry'd apart, cracking a small bit of unsawn log. If this saw ever dies i'll probably buy a giant monster - something completely impractical for the typical homeowner :D
Ian - I wish my project turned out looking more like that and less like random pile of junk. Oh well...
Today i did a fair bit of cutting. Made a few alterations of the mill. The cinderblock counterweight was probably the biggest improvement. Helped keep things level. I also ditched the hand crank drive system... i would need a much more sturdy crank and didn't feel like building or buying one. I was able to reach the saw's throttle with one hand and push the head with the other. I used a 2x4 spanning both sides of the mill to equally push each side. That helped reduce binding of the terribly fabricated wheel/castor system. No picnic pushing this thing while trying to hold the throttle... shelby's suggestion yesterday to run a throttle cable is really a great idea and i hope to add that eventually.
I cut a few of the logs i've been holding on to - most were very small. The video shows the only significant log i had left, though still small at maybe 15"-13". It was a lot of work but results were as good as i could have hoped and MUCH better than i expected 8)
My 'precision depth guide' was a piece of twine wrapped around a lag screw... all board thickness was eyeballed. I wanted a few thick boards and a few thin since i'm not sure what i'll end up doing with the lumber.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E8.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E9.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDw9gK30TUY
Take care everybody,
Joe
nice looking stack o boards Joe! You will be dreaming about better ways to saw logs, while you are sawing logs! every waking moment you will be thinking of improvements :) I do believe you are smitten with the "curse".
What are you running for chain to begin with on that saw? 3/8 or .325?
Im running 3/8 on my csm, but then again im using a 17hp kohler . Hp helps!
Somewhere on the forum, their is an article about circle mill sawing, its rather lengthy and It goes into shearing speeds of wood. It is around 6000 feet per minute,
but frozen was 4500 if I remember right.
My csm runs around that range. 3400 rpm engine, 2 to 1 step up pulley.
Now say, If I put a log on a few inches too long and run out of travel. I have slipped in a chain saw and finished out the cut. I have gotten REAL good at freehand ripping.
The sawdust sickness will engulf your if you aren't careful. It looks like it already has a good hold.
MacGuyver would be proud, as are we.
Are you using a rip chain yet. Interested to see if you notice a difference?
Are you putting any weight on your board stack to keep them from warping as they dry?
I'm running a .325 microlite bar+chain. I forget the chain details but it's not a rip chain. I don't know if i'll ever get my hands on a rip chain. This one is cutting pretty well even tho i haven't been sharpening it consistently... surprisingly well, in fact.
I think i read in another thread that a rip chain may not necessarily cut faster but should leave a smoother face. Guess that would be nice but i've already wasted $100 trying to fix a $200 power washer >:( so the budget for my sawmill exploits is pretty low right now.
Regarding my stack - i just threw those boards up in a quick stack at the end of a busy day. It was dark out and my back was killing me so i didn't do a great job. I am hoping to cover and weight the boards to reduce deformation during drying but haven't had a chance yet. Of course, my luck, we got 5" of snow the day after my work and everything is covered now :( Maybe today i'll try to neaten things up a bit.
Joe,
Looking good! I have not taken the jump into a mill yet either as I cannot decide which one to get. I think now that I am set on one of 3.
Good thinking on your part, if you cannot buy yet - IMPROVISE.
Rob
Goodf Ol Red Green has a tear in his eye right now ! You done him proud ! I think what you did was genious ! After you started I noticed you had made a crank feed and my jaw hit the floor ! No doubt maybe a little tweaking as with anything and you realy have something worth while ! I am very excited for you ! Very cool indeed !
Quotei've already wasted $100 trying to fix a $200 power washer
What do you use a power washer for?
Thanks again for the support guys.
I walked around the yard today and tried to figure out what is left for me to mill.... not too much. Some of the pieces i was planning on cutting are more rotten and cracked than i remembered. Only one of them looks like it might worth having a run at. No cutting today - i don't like to work with snow on the ground and there's no rush. There's a HUGE (oak?) down at my sister's house. I might try to head up there one day and see if i can get grab some logs to play around with.
My power washer rant was unrelated to my recent milling hobby (although i did try to use it to clean a stump i dug out). I got a hand-me-down power washer and tried to fix some problems with it. Spent a bunch of money on tools and supplies. I thought i could fix it without buying the new head it really needs... no luck. So i'm out 1/2 the price of a new unit and it's still not working. So frustrating... At least i got to crack open a small engine and see how everything works (or doesn't work :D ).
Very nice setup! I've got a feeling you'll find more trees. Every dead or blown-down tree you see, you'll be thinking about how to get it home so you can mill it. One question, though, how did you bend that ladder to match the curve in the log? I've been thinking about milling some curved logs, and it looks like you've got it figured out.
Products of your thought, effort and trial and error. 8) way better than store bought.
dboyt, you're absolutely right. i was running some errands today and saw several downed trees. all i could think about was how i might be able to grab a log here and a log there :D
i don't have a pickup but my honda element can probably cart some small stuff.
milling really is like a disease... i told myself i wouldn't do any work today, but around 3pm i couldn't think of anything else. i cut up a little rotting log i've had hanging around for a while. every piece of wood i see, i just have to know what it looks like inside now!
i think it's oak (although my identification skills are poor). it was MUCH harder to cut that the basswood and pine i've worked with so far. can anyone comment from these pics on whether these boards will be usable when they dry? obviously i would have to cut around the rotten/cracked areas, but i'm wondering if the rest of the wood will be useless too? the tree was dead for years, fell over about 1.5 years ago and i cut it into managable pieces and let it lay around.
good news is, i'm getting good at setup and tear-down. maybe 10 mins each. i store everything in my garage and cut in my back yard pretty close to the house. carrying that wooden head sucks - it weighs a ton - but i was up and cutting in no time 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E10.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E11.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E12.jpg)
Well.. about 10mins to go for 2012 here in NJ.... Happy New Years everbody!
Quote from: dboyt on December 31, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
One question, though, how did you bend that ladder to match the curve in the log? I've been thinking about milling some curved logs, and it looks like you've got it figured out.
Oops... i think missed your question with my last reply. Unfortunately i don't have too much advice. The logs i've been working with have been relatively straight. In the video when i bring the boards close to the camera sometimes they look bent but that is an illusion due to the fish-eye camera lense effect. Maybe that is what you are seeing?
With regard to the small curvature in some logs i've dealt with. every log i put on this contraption gets special treatment as far as how i secure it for the cut. That essentially means i find an alignment that makes it fit within my narrow cut window (maybe 15" or 16" wide) and then i screw scraps of 2x4's to the sides of a wooden base i have sitting on the rungs of the ladder. The 2x4's press against the log at various points to hold it well enough for a cut. The system doesn't work so great and i still get log movement - i need to think on it some more. I might just need to use more 2x4's :)
I know you stated you dont want to spend any money, but go pick up some of those plastic fellin wedges. I use only one or 2 wedges on stuff 4 foot. Now I have used 5 or 6 with 20-24 in wide stuff at 8 to 9 feet long. 12 in wide, i only tap one wedge in the drect center, after you in about 4 inches or so, or one on each side. opening the kerf you will cut faster
Or he could cut some wooden wedges that would work and fit the budget. As you are only tapping them in by hand they will last a long time, and if they get lost, cut some more.
Ian
Thanks for the suggestions guys. It just so happens that i bought a 2pack of plastic wedges recently. Still in the packaging. I'll definitely give that a shot next time i do some cutting.
I also bought a pack of shims from HomeDepot when i started working on this project, planning to use them to level everything out. Wonder if they're wide enough to open the kerf... might be close. They're pretty fragile so i don't imagine they would last very long, but there's a lot of them in a pack :)
My holiday vacation ended today and i had to head back to the day job. Booooo..... >:(
So Joe, have you been looking at the sawmill manufacturer websites yet? I think it is inevitable now. :D ;)
Joe, that thing is pure genius. You have th ebug for sure. I haven't been in this game long, but it gets worse. ;D
That last log you show above looks to be some red oak, and I think it's very usable. All wood is dead when you cut it. Some has just been dead a bit longer, but is still solid.
Jeff, maybe you can send Joe a link or 2, so he check out some of those mill manufactureres websites. ;) ;)
No need to send, there's plenty to the left. :)
Quote from: Jeff on January 02, 2013, 10:55:03 PM
So Joe, have you been looking at the sawmill manufacturer websites yet? I think it is inevitable now. :D ;)
I've watched a TON of videos and visited a bunch of websites Jeff :) Definitely checked out some of the forum sponsors. So far my head has beat out my heart and i haven't made any impulse purchases yet :D Who knows how long the willpower will hold out though. I think if i had a pickup truck i would be more tempted... kind of tough to do any real work without a truck :(
Thanks Slab Slicer - i have a few more sections of that same tree that i might cut up. I was waiting to hear some feedback about that one log first. Even if the boards end up kind of nasty, i can always use them for my back yard mountain biking trail. I've got some obstacles in mind that i'd like to put together and you can't beat free lumber ;D
You are doing a fine job Joe Keep the post alive :new_year:
All last week i was trying to think of how i could secure the logs better during the cut. I drew out some designs for log stops (is that what they're called?) and today i had a chance to start on the changes.
I had some light duty square metal tubing that i figured might fit the bill. I cut out some channels in my 2x4 log bed with a circular saw and a chisel, then covered it with another section of 2x4. I drilled holes in the metal tubing to fit a small piece of wooden dowel to make them height adjustable. I got them in place but didn't have a chance to try them out. I'm a little bummed to discover that they aren't very sturdy... i have a feeling they aren't going to be up to the task of holding a log against the pull of the chainsaw, but we'll see. I have to sharpen the metal tubing shown in the pics.. probably only be about 1/2 as high as shown.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E15.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E16.jpg)
My sawmilling exploits might be sidelined for a while anyway.... i cut down a tree today and when trying to cut the trunk really low i hit something hard. I thought it was a rock, but turns out it was a piece of metal piping that the tree seems to have grown up around. So strange. I tried to video it but i haven't looked at the footage yet. Anyway, it killed several of my cutters and i need a new chain :'( I've never seen that happen before. I was sharpening and: sharpen, move, sharpen, move, sharpen, move... hey ??? no cutter?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E14.jpg)
geez... my garage is a mess :-[
Sorry to hear about your latest run in...been enjoying reading this thread and watching your efforts! I have faith since you've made it this far, you'll get past this hurdle too.
I guess some metal is more obvious than others :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28818/bike-in-tree.jpg)
:o
HA!
Looked at your P/S chain get rid of that old chipper chain it never will be as sharp as a real dull chisle chain. Don't let them tell you you cant file it with round file either.
I saw that bike on the world new last week, I only caught the picture of it,by the time the wife hollered at me and by the time I got out to the TV.
I have bent a few cutters before. I have no idea how. But I just ground them off. BUT I am only cutting trees down. Not miiling with it.Might be able to save it when you are cutting trees, or expect trouble.
keep on thinking,you will get better and better at it.
you might be able to save that chain into a chipper/slasher setup
my best grind chain setup I had was a chisel/ slasher combo grind.
pair chisel, next 5 was like a slasher tooth, but all were sharpened at a 15 deg angle and 75 deg. rakers at 25-30 thou. I cut stuff up to 24 in wide with it, best part was you couldnt over feed it, and bind up.
Switched back to my stock 20" bar (from the microlite 18") to get a little more usable bar length. I bought a new chain for it and gave it a shot yesterday. Cuts pretty good, but ripping through a 14"+ log with this little saw is rough on it. Lots of bogging.
Went to work on the smallest of these 4 segments (all the way to the left in the pic). Cut a few boards and started stacking on the new platform i setup earlier in the day. I took forever levelling those blocks for my stacking platform and only realized later that i placed them farther apart than i should have. I was aiming for ~16" supports but they're more like 20"+. I was sort of eyeballing them and did a poor job
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/image%7E20.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/photo_1%7E1.JPG)
Great job, Joe.
Finally got back to work cutting up some stuff in my yard. Been busy on other projects and the weather hasn't been the greatest.
Fresh cut stack is on the right. Left stack was from the same tree, but cut a couple of months ago. I notice a significant difference in color, with the old cut stuff yellowing a noticable amount. Is that normal? Is there a problem?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30795/photo_2%7E2.JPG)
A little timelapse video. Everything looks so quick and easy at about 20x :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeXiq69M43A
Joe, I can't help but give you a "complimentary" laugh when I watch your videos.
You got it going on Joe.
Good job. smiley_thumbsup
The yellowing is normal when wood is exposed to the environment. The surface starts to oxidise due to sunlight and the elements, and pine goes a darker yellow like that. The wood should still be clean and white under that thin layer, which will plane off when you machine the dry wood.
Ian
Basswood when first sawn, it quite white, but it is a species that significantly yellows within just a few hours from oxidation. No big deal.
It sure beats a pit saw. Frank C.
Thanks guys.
Hey Ian, i just stumbled across this online... looks like it might be the museum you posted a picture from? Looks like an interesting place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ldf20L0Rjo
Yep, been there, done that ;D
Visited there a few years back, pics in this old thread.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,9786
Here's Lil checking out the log / tram in the video.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/ianab_kauri_museum_logging_tram_1.jpg)
It's worth a visit if you are in NZ and have any interest in logging, sawmills or woodworking. Or even if you don't it's still got enough stuff that's interesting.
Ian
I got a few requests through Youtube for more details on the "design" of this mill. I did a walkaround with the camera the other day and rambled on about the project, explaining how it got created and some things that could use improvement, etc...
Not sure if it'll be of any use to anybody, but i thought i'd throw it up on this thread for completeness. My last attempt to use the mill did not go well, so it's out of commission for now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygiRFKzAzjE
This Wooden CSM is a great idea for low budget sawmilling.