Myself, my dad, and our neighbor always used 87 octane (regular unleaded) gasoline in our chainsaws. What do you use?
91?? The most I can get at a regular gas station. I try to only buy the highest grade for all my small engines. I burn the cheap stuff in a $10,000 car and use the best stuff in a $600 chainsaw,$1500 splitter and so on. ::)
110!!!! We go through 60,000 plus gallons of diesel fuel per year, as well as propane and fuel oil for the tenant houses, so Crystal Flash here in Mi gives us a free drum of leaded racing fuel for our pulling tractors. We don't even use half of it anymore, so the saws have been getting a treat for quite some time now. They don't seem to run any better, but it's free and there's no alcohol in it. They sure smell more powerful though! 8)
91 or better. Just been the rule of thumb since I have owned saws.
89 in all OPE.
Anything without the ethanol "wonder" additive. >:(
Is there danger in running 87 octane? I know the manuel says to run 89+ but can it really hurt it?
It's only a little more for 5 gallons,not even a dollar. I'm not taking any chances. what the old saying,trip over a dollar trying to save a dime. I go through quite a bit of gas in a week too. I just feel it runs better. It's all in my head,but something has to be in there.
I run 93 octane with my saws running between 180 to 200 psi compression. Over 93 octane isn't needed for work saws. With stock compression and an average chain I doubt much difference will be seen between 87 to 93 octane. Heat the saw up and I would expect 87 to possibly detonate, which is bad.
To play it safe I would run 89 or better.
100 LL, my saw is tuned for it.
I run 91 or whatever is highest. Around here high test recently became ethanol free at some stations, so that's a plus too. Everything but the car gets it, I don't go through a lot of small engine fuel so cheap insurance for me.
NY is not that far from me, Was it a big name gas station? I would like to get the e free,but not about to run all over the place to get it. E free might be coming North.
I'm not so certain leaded gas has any effect on a two cycle engine .Even back in the day for example on McCulloch go kart racing engines they recommended what was called "White Gas " which was Coleman lantern fuel which had no lead in it .
I personally use hi test whatever the so called octane rating is 91-92 .Weather it makes a difference or not is anyones guess .At 2 gallons at a time the extra 20 cents certainly is not going to send me to the poor house .
Some babble on about running Cam II or aviation fuel and if it makes them feel better go for it .This is one of those subjects akin to the oil wars I think .--look out here they come -- 8)
Did someone mention blade lube?? :D
:D Not yet but they like to argue that too .From synthetic to used crankcase black oil ,yuck .
Quote from: JuniperBoss on January 20, 2013, 10:18:37 PM
Is there danger in running 87 octane? I know the manuel says to run 89+ but can it really hurt it?
87 is fine, dont let anyone out there tell you any different.
Matter of fact....I prefer 87 over the others.
87 cycles through your service station many times faster than the other grades.
10 years ago my stihl dealer told me 87 octane, now they say 93. I have always run 93 in everything else small engine, now I run 93 in my saws too. It might be a false sense of securtiy, but I think that it keeps my carbs cleaner.
Quote from: Dave VH on January 21, 2013, 09:34:33 AM
I think that it keeps my carbs cleaner.
How would octane rating keep your carbs cleaner?
Aha sports fans another great debate is on the horizon and you saw it first right here . A milestone in the annals of internet forums .Let the games begin on the subject of "clean gasoline " as oppossed to dirty money derived from same . ;D
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 21, 2013, 10:25:47 AM
Aha sports fans another great debate is on the horizon and you saw it first right here . A milestone in the annals of internet forums .Let the games begin on the subject of "clean gasoline " as oppossed to dirty money derived from same . ;D
:D..........you crack me up Al........ :)
;)
Quote from: thecfarm on January 21, 2013, 07:34:26 AM
NY is not that far from me, Was it a big name gas station? I would like to get the e free,but not about to run all over the place to get it. E free might be coming North.
/
Thecfarm, around here the stations are called Fastrac. I'm not sure who they get their gas from though. I noticed it on puregas.org one day and checked for myself. Added a few stations myself too. Nice to have somewhere close, plus I didn't make a habbit of stopping there before this because it wasn't the closest, but only about 5 extra mins. This was the first place I've found local in a long time.
I think the closest "pure gas "business is to me is around 85 miles the lake Erie shore line .I suppose if it really bothered me I could buy Cam II or Av gas closer .Since it doesn't worry me all that much I'll just save my money and rebuild carbs every so often because I've became rather good at it .Lots of practice .BTW I can buy Cam II about 3 miles from where I live if I wanted to .
Hmm wonder what that stuff would do in a weed wacker with a souped engine and a tuned pipe .Probabley blow my eardrums out and cause the neighbors to get hatey more than likely .
Fastrac I guess is only in your area. Never know,thought i would ask. thank you.
Now back to the great debate,whatever it is,oil,gas or lube. :D
Sorry I couldn't be more help. I imagine the very large boat and snowmobile industry in NY may have something to do with it, but that's just a guess. Last year was when it appeared in my area, only place before that was in Inlet, NY, or about 60 miles away. Not making that drive. As for the wars, I'm out! ;D
Quote from: AdkStihl on January 21, 2013, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: Dave VH on January 21, 2013, 09:34:33 AM
I think that it keeps my carbs cleaner.
How would octane rating keep your carbs cleaner?
I never said that I knew what I was talking about. I just thought that it would leave less residue in the carbs, like I said, a false sense of security.
For now I quess that I will keep buying my 93 octane and be happy in my ignorance.
if there is a reason that I'm wrong, please tell me, cause I really don't know
To a point you are correct .Gasoline no matter who makes it is all basically the same .The main differences are the additives and the dye .Those additives are added at the terminals the big tanker trucks load out from for deliveries to your local gas station .
If for example you prefer BP gas you may or may not have gasoline that was refined by BP .It could come from just about any refinery .As a rule it will have BP additives and dye color in it though . Nothing new just not widely known but it's been going on for years .
I use 93 in all of my stuff, Some sleds take 112 so I have some of that on hand also.
93 octane is in my saws
Just bought some 92 octane E-10 (10% ethanol) gasoline at the local Shell station. I'm going to try it out soon and see if it makes a good difference. I have noticed that my brand new Stihl runs kinda weird on 87 octane compared to higher octane stuff. The only time I ever tried a higher octane was when the repair man put some in from the shop.
I've rebuilt my fair share of small engines that were run on anything from 87 octane to 115 octane fuels, and what I've seen is that the higher the octane, the cleaner the combustion chamber, and piston are. 87 motors had carbon build up that would chip off, and end up scoring the cylinder if let go too long, while the 115 motors had ony a slight residue if anything. What you run in your small engine is up to you. I just run the 89 octane in my non diesel engines. I hate the E fuels, but can't find any non E fuel around here. I use an additive to prevent any issues I've had in the past with it. That's the best I can do for now.
higher grades of gas are always better. In summer they actually keep the saw cooler. They have a faster burn rate. The longer it takes the gas to burn the hotter the engine becomes. For what the difference is in 5 gallons or 2.5 gallons it is worth it to get the best or at least the highest octane.
Well with due respect that could be debated because it's generally accepted that higher octane ratings actually burn slower.
This is a copy and past from a site that deals with two cycle engines: OCTANE
This is probably the most misunderstood aspect of gasoline. A higher octane rating does not alone mean more power. A gasoline with a higher octane rating will produce less BTU¹s when burned than a lower octane gasoline. Higher octane ratings allow racers to run higher compression ratios in their engines without detonation or pre-ignition to create more heat energy, which means more horsepower. Octane is the numerical measurement of a gasolines ability to resist detonation and pre-ignition. Octane in racing gasoline is most easily raised by using Tetraethyl or Tetramethyl lead:End
It's also a fact that gasoline itself does not really affect burn rates but rather the fuel to air ratio .This is the reason a lean set carb will have a tendency to burn the exhaust side of the piston given enough time .
Now also generally speaking it's the carb setting rather than the fuel which prevents carbon build up .Obviously were it set too rich it would show some carbon build up .
I will give some merit to the fact that certain additives can produce a cleaner burn .
Now trivia .At one time gasoline had two basic componds ,heptane and isooctane .At that time obviously 100 octane was exactly that 100 percent isooctane .
Gasoline as we know it today uses an octane rating because the formulation and methods of refining have changed over the years .
So after saying all that goobly gook I'll just run my hi-test and call it a day .--minus the Amzoil ---
I run 89 in everything except the Harley which has always fed on premium ;D
I used to run my old Harley chopper on Cam II .TT special ,tavern to tavern so to speak . 8) High compression engine that refused to start if it were warm on anything less than Sunoco 260 .What it really was was a gigantic pain in the buttocks .
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 23, 2013, 06:57:34 AM
Well with due respect that could be debated because it's generally accepted that higher octane ratings actually burn slower.
This is a copy and past from a site that deals with two cycle engines: OCTANE
This is probably the most misunderstood aspect of gasoline. A higher octane rating does not alone mean more power. A gasoline with a higher octane rating will produce less BTU¹s when burned than a lower octane gasoline. Higher octane ratings allow racers to run higher compression ratios in their engines without detonation or pre-ignition to create more heat energy, which means more horsepower. Octane is the numerical measurement of a gasolines ability to resist detonation and pre-ignition. Octane in racing gasoline is most easily raised by using Tetraethyl or Tetramethyl lead:End
It's also a fact that gasoline itself does not really affect burn rates but rather the fuel to air ratio .This is the reason a lean set carb will have a tendency to burn the exhaust side of the piston given enough time .
Now also generally speaking it's the carb setting rather than the fuel which prevents carbon build up .Obviously were it set too rich it would show some carbon build up .
I will give some merit to the fact that certain additives can produce a cleaner burn .
Now trivia .At one time gasoline had two basic componds ,heptane and isooctane .At that time obviously 100 octane was exactly that 100 percent isooctane .
Gasoline as we know it today uses an octane rating because the formulation and methods of refining have changed over the years .
So after saying all that goobly gook I'll just run my hi-test and call it a day .--minus the Amzoil ---
Professor Al, I appreciate the info that you bring to the table. I'm always able to learn something from ya, Thanks
Dave
Yes I agree. Al does seem very knowledgeable. Thanks for the information. So what's the catch with higher octane in chainsaw? If higher octane doesn't necessarily mean a cooler burn, then why do most of us use it? And why are chainsaw manufacturers so unknowledgeable on the subject (most tell us to use 89+ octane).
Quote from: thecfarm on January 21, 2013, 02:17:38 PM
Fastrac I guess is only in your area. Never know,thought i would ask. thank you.
Now back to the great debate,whatever it is,oil,gas or lube. :D
there is a marina on a lake in southern me that sells the real gas. cant think of the name of the place
Well 89 plus would be approacing hi test I'd think .If I'm not mistaken 87 is regular 89 is mid grade and 91-92 is hi test .
I don't really know if it makes that much diff on a stocker .Some of mine are souped and some are stock I just hi-test them all .Some are tuned right in on the money some I thought were showed a black plug ,none showed white though thank heavens .
I don't get all that fussy about what brand the stuff is because with the exception of race gas they don't vary that much .You can't find straight non ethanol gas any more so you just have to go with what you have is the way I look at it .
Now if I had a vintage 1963 split window 'Vette I might view things differently but I don't so I don't .
QuoteYou can't find straight non ethanol gas any more so you just have to go with what you have is the way I look at it .
Yes, we can still buy non-ethanol gas. And do, for car, chainsaws, and other gas engines. About 10-15 cents more per gallon.
snowstorm,Southern Maine,might be 1½ to 2 hours from me. I have never had any trouble with the e gas. But what I buy does not sit around either. Buy about 5 gallons at a time and seem like I'm back buying more before I know it. I buy 5 gallons at a time for the chainsaw too.
Just got some 92 octane. How long can it sit and still use it? I hear about a month is as far as you want to leave it before using it in a small engine.
During the cold months I might only use a gallon or so from a two gallon jug in 6 weeks .After about that time I get new gas .The old gas oil and all gets dumped in my old Fergusen tractor .It's not all that fussy and probabley would run on tobacco juice .--Well maybe not but it sounded good .
Octane keeps gas from pre-detonating in high compression engines. Basically because these engines are sort of like diesels...compression causes heat causing a boom. The octane keeps the gas stable until the piston is near TDC and time for the plug to fire. The ping or knock you hear in engines is gas being exploded by compression heat before it is supposed to. A higher octane gas will burn more rapidly once detonated. Octane rating for gas is around 55 until additives are put in to boost it up. Perhaps benzine is one of them? There is so much crap in gas it is hard to keep up with it.
What's the story with ethanol? Seems like everybody complains about it, but it is in most gasolines and it can be hard to get the pure stuff. Why do they put that stuff in there when everyone dislikes it?
To raise the price of corn I suppose .If they were serious about it they'd use cane or sugar beets I'd think .Feed the corn to beef cattle or make whiskey out of it .
Quote from: JuniperBoss on January 24, 2013, 07:17:11 PM
What's the story with ethanol? Seems like everybody complains about it, but it is in most gasolines and it can be hard to get the pure stuff. Why do they put that stuff in there when everyone dislikes it?
Call or write your senator and representative and ask them that, then listen to them backpedal. They granted unlimited rule making authority to the EPA, and now they don't have the sack to stand up to them.
Okay. What I was hoping for was a reason why it's in there. Does it have some benefit, like improving the combustion or quality of the gas in some way? I'm just not educated on that subject.
When a tanker ties up to the pier you see Mobil,gulf,shell est.tank trucks in line drafting off the same tanker, end of the line are the bargan no name dealers that buy up the bottom of the tank.Advertising aside gasoline is gasoline.Sometimes,like most times,your better off with regular its far freasher than the higher tests that move slowly. Frank C.
JuniperBoss,
The exhaust emissions from alcohols (ethanol, methanol) do not pollute as much as pure gasoline. No one will dispute that. However, it takes the equivalent of a gallon of diesel fuel to make a gallon of corn based ethanol(Think tilling,planting,fertilizer production,spraying,harvesting,trucking,electricity generation,etc.). Last year with the drought it took more than a gallon equivalent in some instances.
To answer your question in a nutshell, it is in there because lobbyists were able to mislead government officials into creating mandates for it's use in our gasoline's. Period.
Last year the US hog and beef farmers were put in a position where they actually had to import foreign (most came from Brazil) corn to feed out their stock. The mandates that the ethanol industry have in place are so firm and intrusive that many elevators cannot choose who purchases corn from them-it has to go to an ethanol plant.
Most products in your local grocery store are as high priced as they are because of these mandates.
Our local paper (Lansing State Journal) had a very informative article last Sunday that weighed out most of the pro's and con's of ethanol production. It was very informative. The con's outweighed the pro's by a huge margin.
The use of ethanol does, however, give a select group of people that "warm and fuzzy" feeling that we've all grown accustomed to hearing about. This same group does not want us heating with wood(in fact they've been known to hug trees!) or any fossil fuel either. They feel that most modes of transportation should be electrically powered.
Google the cons of ethanol production and you'll see what the fuss is about.
Thank you very much for the information :). Now I get the gist of this ethanol.
Marty hit it pretty well. Without getting into politics, I believe it is mostly a smoke screen of sorts to give people the feeling that using it is better for the environment. As was said, it actually creates more overall greenhouse gasses to produce than it saves. Also, ethanol has less energy per unit than gasoline. This means that you actually get less energy from a gallon of E10 than gallon of pure gas. So in the long run it doesn't really help. If you search here for this you can find previous threads with plenty of ethanol facts. JohnMc here had a lot of good information and statistics to back it up as I recall. Check them out.
I consistently get 10% better gas mileage using non-ethanol gas. It costs me about 4% more per gallon. Its a no-brainer what to try to buy.
Ends up that ethanol is just a filler, and not saving any gas. But the mandates are that the supply has to be a ethanol laden, which here is usually about 10%. The farmers don't burn the stuff, as they burn diesel. ::) ::)
Ethanol treated gas knocked the gas mileage on my Jeep Cherokee Sport from 20+ miles to the gallon down to 14 to 16 if lucky. They say it helps with the pollution problem but if you burn more gas who benefits? The Big Oil Companies and Corn Brokers. You can't beat the CEO's and their quest for Billions in profits and their Unholy Salaries and benefits. We have a 91 octane un-ethanol gas in my area but you can't buy 5 gallons for $20. It's $.50 plus a gallon more. Use it in the chainsaws though.
One of the reasons ethanol was added to gas is that it's and oxygenated fuel. Certain areas of the US that had air quality problems were mandated to use oxygenated fuel. One of the popular oxygenate additives was MTBE (if I've got the acronym right... and don't ask me what it stands for). A big problem surfaced with this "good for the air quality" additive. When it managed to leach into the ground, it wrought serious havoc on water quality. Ethanol came in to play as a substitute for MTBE.
The second reason for ethanol was to "reduce our dependance on foreign oil". Sounds great, doesn't it? A home-grown energy source that burns cleaner than gas... what's not to like? In their infinite wisdom, our government mandated the use of at least a certain number of gallons of ethanol each year. The number automatically bumps up a bit each year.
There was NO mandate that fuel contain 10% ethanol (except some regions of the country where it was one possible additive to help with air quality issues as noted above). In fact, the thought at the time was that this would help promote E85 (basically, straight ethanol with enough gas added so people wouldn't try to drink it). E85 just hasn't taken off -- how many pumps have any of us run across in our travels? With the increasing gallons of mandated ethanol each year, combined with more fuel efficient cars and the recession (people driving less) there were fewer and fewer places for the industry to use the ethanol. It's finally to the point where just about every gallon of gas sold needs to have 10% ethanol to meet the mandated gallons to be used each year. In fact, it was the bumping up against this limit that prompted the lobbying to approve E15 gas.
Ironically, though E85 has a bit less energy density than gas, it has significantly fewer problems as a fuel than E10 or E15 (eating up rubber fuel lines, o-rings and diaphragms is one problem it does still have). T
he only advantage I can see to having E15 become more of a standard is that it will cause so many problems (especially with small engines and older cars) that (1) maybe the powers that be will wake up and correct this fiasco and/or (2) it will force the wider spread availability of non-ethanol options (like maybe mandating the availability of non-ethanol premium??)
around here I bet 60% of the stations carry e85. It is only a little bit cheaper than regular and you get much less fuel economy with it. I just don't understand the point. Even though my tahoe could use it, it just doesn't make good sense
Quote from: Dave VH on January 30, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
around here I bet 60% of the stations carry e85.
It's been 12 years since I lived out your way (I was in NW Ohio). They must have cropped up since then. In my entire life, I've seen two E85 pumps (not that I've really been looking).
Yesterday I was running some erands about 40 miles north of my normal area and saw a station with a big no ethanol sign out front, thats the first ethanol free gas I've seen in a long time. Luckily I had an empty 2 gal container along and wish I would have had a couple of 5 gal cans. I filled my 2 gal and topped off my Subaru with 89 oct ethanol free! It was 30 cents higher.