I moved in on a fairly large framing lumber saw job this morning, and we knocked out a whack of 2X4's & 2X8's. Just before quitting time, the customer walks over to his truck and brings back a "log". :o Since he was not planning on building a camp fire, I am figuring how to clamp that stick.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1478_28Custom29.JPG)
Yup, Bois d'arc, Bodark, Bodock, Osage Orange, hedge apple, horse apple, Maclura pomifera.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1479_28Custom29.JPG)
Absolutely Beautiful. I got prepared just in case that stick decided to ride in the operator's seat. :o
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1465_28Small29.JPG)
And the framing lumber job is not bad either. ;D
DanG wood gots some bright color....WOW!
Good job Magic, I wish we had that species around here.
By the way, the last man I looked at through a screen, I was confessing my sins. :)
Where's the pocket peavey when you need it? ;)
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 04, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
By the way, the last man I looked at through a screen, I was confessing my sins. :)
DanG, I'll bet that took awhile! ;D ;D ;D
MM you look pretty spiffy in that Husky hardhat and screen, satin jacket and white shirt...the gentleman sawyer's attire. :)
The name Bois d'arc is French meaning a wood used for archery bows. Deviants of that French name include Bodark and Bodock. OSAGE ORANGE has its Latin name (Maclura pomifera)
given in honor of William Maclura, an American
geologist (1763 - 1840), and in recognition of the grapefruit-size (3" to 6" in diameter), inedible,
spherical, bumpy pommes or apples it produces.
Before the development
of barbed wire, the tree was planted in the Great Plains and the East to develop a hedge row fence; stems
and branches would grow as much as six feet in one year. When planted close together and pruned, its
branchy-ness and spiny thorns make a nearly impenetrable, natural hedge to any animal larger than a
rabbit. During President Roosevelt's "Great Plains Shelterbelt" WPA project starting in 1934, over 200
million trees were planted to control soil erosion. A thornless variety is available today for horticultural
plantings today.
The color is indeed beautiful when first cut, but the golden yellow will age to a russet brown color with high luster over time. The root wood and bark, and to a lesser extent the
wood itself, have a great amount of yellow coloring that can be extracted in hot water and used as dye.
Native Americans used this coloring. In WW I, the dye was used for khaki coloring. An extract from the
pommes called elemol has been found to be as effective as DEET for repelling mosquitos.
This is probably the most naturally decay resistant species in North America.
The wood is 30% heavier than oak, so it is difficult to saw.
Early uses of the wood by the European settlers was for wheel rims and hubs. It lasted a long time.
And on a firewood btu chart that someone posted Osage Orange was the number one firewood for btus, much better than oak or maple.
Yet another magical wood. :)
Almost looks like Pacific Yew Wood. I love Yew it is dark orange with red streaks and is very rot resistant. It is also great for making bows. Anyways looking good!
Regrettably I do not have a lathe, but I would (wood) love to have a pen made from that wood. It is stunning to say the least.
What I have cut has been bad to have cracks and splits. Are those lines in the board future splits?
When I was young I remember there was a hedgeline of them along a road. They were bushy like trees that were perhaps 15-20' tall, if I remember right. We called the fruit "monkey balls". ;D
MM, I'll turn you a pen from it. Next time I see you, you can get me a blank.
Doc, anyone you know use the extract from the hedge apples to keep mosquitoes away? Sounds interesting.
My sawyer "stole" some Osage Orange that we had laying around to make turkey calls. He convinced me that I would never do anything with it and being the nice guy that he was I should make it a perk of the job. He made some nice calls.
There's a bit of bodock in my area. I saw every scrap I can get, when I finish, there's nothing left but sawdust and bark. Most of it goes to duck and turkey calls, a few pens and bowls. Even the small pieces are made into felling wedges, better than plastic or metal.
If you don't mind sharing a secret? How do you clamp that short little log on the mill to open the first face? I'm new to these tricks and would love to learn that.
I have a 3.5-4' piece of cherry that I had intended to have milled for years. Now with my own mill I don't dare try as I'm afraid I hurt something or someone.
Just a note about firewood: All hardwoods have the same BTUa per pound. Softwoods sometimes have slightly more heat per pound when they are resinous.
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 05, 2013, 02:36:23 PM
Just a note about firewood: All hardwoods have the same BTUa per pound. Softwoods sometimes have slightly more heat per pound when they are resinous.
"roughly" the same btu per pound. According to http://firewoodresource.com/firewood-btu-ratings/
It would take 156.2 pounds of shagbark hickory to make a million btu's.
It would only take 143.7 pounds of bodark for the same amount of heat.
Same per pound if at the same moisture content, I believe.
Not comparing by volume, as in a cord.
Striking wood MagicMan. Great backstory Gene.
That's the first type of wood I ever milled on my LT40. Marty Parsons pulled it from his log pile to use while training me. The color is amazing.
Nice lumber. ;D
No doubt osage is very rot resistant. But I would doubt if it's more so than some of the cedars or Pacific yew. I have seen half carved out western red cedars left behind or abandoned by natives in the 19th C. Still in tact. The government has a term for these culturally significant trees. They call them "culturally modified trees" or CMT's. ;D
Also, yellow cypress, as long as it's in tact when it falls will last and last just laying on the wet ground in the mountains.
Danny, yes, the dark streaks are cracks, but the wood between the cracks seems very solid.
Thanks Terry, I will get with you about a pen.
GDinMaine, there was no clamping secret. That "log" was 31" long. I raised one manual side support and somehow the log clamp was able to tighten down on it. I made a couple of passes before flipping it over and continuing the saw through. The clamping was the reason that I had the helmet on, and I also made my customers stand away just in cast that thing got loose. I was not comfortable.
Here is a pen and pencil set I made for a fella that used to post on here by the name of IL BULL. Haven't heard from him in a long time. He sent me some Osage and it had this burl wood in it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12960/donk_osage1_jpg.jpg)
I just looked at the pen blanks he sent me the other day. Still a vivid yellow, been in a box. My wife said it was the ugliest wood she has ever seen. :D
Don
Mine thinks its ugly too :(
I loves UG LEE pens. :)
It's the women that are who ya got to please. They are the ones that pass or fail the wood projects before they can gain entry to the parlour. :D :D :D ;D
Thanks Magicman. Learning those small things is what makes the day go easier.
Magic, you are giving me wood "envy", that is some nice looking stuff! Thanks Gene for the background on the species, I find info like that fascinating. Per chance have you seen a book or maybe you have authored one of "woody trees of North America"? That would have info of species we encounter, that would have info such as you shared of traditional uses of different woods, "specifications" or properties of each specie etc? Such a volume would be invaluable to me anyways.
For years the one used in forestry schools in the US and Canada was "Textbook of Wood Technology" It is now out of print, but I consider it one of the best books I purchased for school. I call it the wood bible. ;D I have not seen Hoadley's book, so I can't comment. The "Wood Handbook" is mostly pages of theory and formulas, no ID keys and not near the scope.
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 07, 2013, 06:06:10 AM
For years the one used in forestry schools in the US and Canada was "Textbook of Wood Technology" It is now out of print, but I consider it one of the best books I purchased for school. I call it the wood bible. ;D I have not seen Hoadley's book, so I can't comment. The "Wood Handbook" is mostly pages of theory and formulas, no ID keys and not near the scope.
Thanks for that SD, I will do a search on Amazon. If it can be found they will have it. Books like that are indeed invaluable.
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 04, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
DanG wood gots some bright color....WOW!
Good job Magic, I wish we had that species around here.
By the way, the last man I looked at through a screen, I was confessing my sins. :)
:D :D :D Very funny poston.
I wear my hat screen down when milling mesquite. There are several dents in the screen from bark chunks blowing off the debarker. Couldn't tell you how many cuts and bruises on arms and chest......
Keep wearing that screen magicman.
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 04, 2013, 11:51:13 PM
The name Bois d'arc is French meaning a wood used for archery bows. Deviants of that French name include Bodark and Bodock. OSAGE ORANGE has its Latin name (Maclura pomifera)
given in honor of William Maclura, an American
geologist (1763 - 1840), and in recognition of the grapefruit-size (3" to 6" in diameter), inedible,
spherical, bumpy pommes or apples it produces.
Before the development
of barbed wire, the tree was planted in the Great Plains and the East to develop a hedge row fence; stems
and branches would grow as much as six feet in one year. When planted close together and pruned, its
branchy-ness and spiny thorns make a nearly impenetrable, natural hedge to any animal larger than a
rabbit. During President Roosevelt's "Great Plains Shelterbelt" WPA project starting in 1934, over 200
million trees were planted to control soil erosion. A thornless variety is available today for horticultural
plantings today.
The color is indeed beautiful when first cut, but the golden yellow will age to a russet brown color with high luster over time. The root wood and bark, and to a lesser extent the
wood itself, have a great amount of yellow coloring that can be extracted in hot water and used as dye.
Native Americans used this coloring. In WW I, the dye was used for khaki coloring. An extract from the
pommes called elemol has been found to be as effective as DEET for repelling mosquitos.
This is probably the most naturally decay resistant species in North America.
The wood is 30% heavier than oak, so it is difficult to saw.
Early uses of the wood by the European settlers was for wheel rims and hubs. It lasted a long time.
In Missouri, they say that a hedge apple post will outlast two holes. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: GDinMaine on February 05, 2013, 11:35:42 AM
If you don't mind sharing a secret? How do you clamp that short little log on the mill to open the first face? I'm new to these tricks and would love to learn that.
I have a 3.5-4' piece of cherry that I had intended to have milled for years. Now with my own mill I don't dare try as I'm afraid I hurt something or someone.
Quote from: Magicman on February 05, 2013, 09:01:36 PM
Danny, yes, the dark streaks are cracks, but the wood between the cracks seems very solid.
Thanks Terry, I will get with you about a pen.
GDinMaine, there was no clamping secret. That "log" was 31" long. I raised one manual side support and somehow the log clamp was able to tighten down on it. I made a couple of passes before flipping it over and continuing the saw through. The clamping was the reason that I had the helmet on, and I also made my customers stand away just in cast that thing got loose. I was not comfortable.
In response to the milling of short and/or narrow logs.
We often encounter trees in the desert that are so crooked that we frequently get pieces 24-30" long. We keep some 1' boards that are maybe 36" long near the mill just for cutting this kind of stuff. Put one board under the "log" and one behind it against the log stops. The back board occasionally gets cut up in the process, but it works.
For really small stuff, like shrubs or branches, I just joint one side flat, then mill it on a table saw.
Using these methods, you can mill "logs" down to 1" thick if you want to.
Have fun.
smiley_blue_bounce smiley_blue_bounce smiley_blue_bounce smiley_blue_bounce
Quote from: mesquite buckeye on February 07, 2013, 10:34:03 AM
In Missouri, they say that a hedge apple post will outlast two holes. ;D ;D ;D
That's funny.
Quote from: Tree Feller on February 07, 2013, 10:43:06 AM
Quote from: mesquite buckeye on February 07, 2013, 10:34:03 AM
In Missouri, they say that a hedge apple post will outlast two holes. ;D ;D ;D
That's funny.
Just whut them ole timers say...... ;D
Quote from: mad murdock on February 07, 2013, 10:09:15 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 07, 2013, 06:06:10 AM
For years the one used in forestry schools in the US and Canada was "Textbook of Wood Technology" It is now out of print, but I consider it one of the best books I purchased for school. I call it the wood bible. ;D I have not seen Hoadley's book, so I can't comment. The "Wood Handbook" is mostly pages of theory and formulas, no ID keys and not near the scope.
Thanks for that SD, I will do a search on Amazon. If it can be found they will have it. Books like that are indeed invaluable.
I like Hoadley's book, but it is not light reading. It is the real stuff.
Also check out Wood Structure and Identification, by Core, Cote, and Day. I think out of print, but available used. Also serious stuff. smiley_eek_dropjaw smiley_eek_dropjaw smiley_eek_dropjaw smiley_eek_dropjaw
It's all serious isn't it? Beating around the bush serves no purpose. ;D
I found the Hoadley book informative and less technical than the Textbook of Wood Technology. The pictures in the Hoadley book are excellent. Not many obscure species in there, though :).
When we were younger, my dad used to tell us we were too poor to buy fireworks. He said all we needed was a chain saw and an old dry hedge post and could see all the sparklers we wanted to, till the saw ran out of gas or the chain broke.
Quote from: Fil-Dill on February 07, 2013, 04:46:39 PM
When we were younger, my dad used to tell us we were too poor to buy fireworks. He said all we needed was a chain saw and an old dry hedge post and could see all the sparklers we wanted to, till the saw ran out of gas or the chain broke.
:D :D :D That's funny....but your Dad was right. :)
Quote from: Magicman on February 05, 2013, 06:57:01 AMRegrettably I do not have a lathe, but I would (wood) love to have a pen made from that wood. It is stunning to say the least.
I made the above comment on Feb. 5th and today I have a pen made from that stick of Bodock.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1495_28Small29.JPG)
Shortly after I made the post Radar67 responded that he would make me a pen. My customer sent him several blanks and I got to choose which pen I wanted. My pick was one that had two tiny knots which to me, gave it additional character. Thank you Terry. :)
I would have to say it is a mighty fine pen to, to both Radar and MagicMan. How's your penmanship? ;D
I remember that blank. The only one in the bunch that had the knots. I was worried it would explode on my while turning. Glad to see that is the one you received. First time I worked with Osage Orange, and I see why it is called orange. Everything on my bench still has an orange tint to it. :)
Just to clarify, my customer sent Radar67 enough blanks to make 6 pens. One for himself, his Son, two Grandsons, one for the guy that gave him the Bodark, and one for me. ;D
None for Radar? ::)
;D
Beenthere, he was a paying customer. ;)
Goes without saying, but I bet Radar snuck one in his pocket. :D
Quote from: Radar67 on February 22, 2013, 02:05:55 PM
I remember that blank. The only one in the bunch that had the knots. I was worried it would explode on my while turning. Glad to see that is the one you received. First time I worked with Osage Orange, and I see why it is called orange. Everything on my bench still has an orange tint to it. :)
The "orange" name actually has nothing to do with the wood color which is bright yellow when freshly milled. Instead, it's because of the large green fruit that the tree bears. The fruit is light-green but has a rough texture and size similar to an orange. In addition, it smells faintly like an orange when it is overripe, although the fruit is not edible for humans.
I found a Bois d' Arc tree on my place a week or so ago that I didn't even know was there. It's only about 8" diameter but is very straight for the first ten feet. I'm gonna trim it up and leave it.
I would to. And as bad as ironwood can take over an understory, it's a real find to have one on your land 8-10" diameter. Worth saving. :) On my land I have a far corner that was a hardwood site. It was cut off and grew back to hardwood and large tooth. And the understory is a thicket of ironwood among the hazel nuts.
And how about $12 a pound for the saw dust/shavings?
http://smith-lumber.com/product_info.php?products_id=138 (http://smith-lumber.com/product_info.php?products_id=138)
another little hedgeapple factoid...while the fruit is not edible, the seeds are very tasty. I've roasted them on two occasions. a little sweet and nutty in flavor. you can eat them like you would pumpkin seeds or sunflower seeds, but you can also add them to white rice when you cook it. adds a nice texture and flavor. you have to get the seeds in the fall when the fruit is mushy and over ripe. Some where in one of my books is an old recipe for hedgeapple jelly. I'll report on that if I can find the recipe and screw up my courage enough to make it :D :D
Quote from: Magicman on February 04, 2013, 10:17:37 PM
I moved in on a fairly large framing lumber saw job this morning, and we knocked out a whack of 2X4's & 2X8's. Just before quitting time, the customer walks over to his truck and brings back a "log". :o Since he was not planning on building a camp fire, I am figuring how to clamp that stick.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1478_28Custom29.JPG)
Yup, Bois d'arc, Bodark, Bodock, Osage Orange, hedge apple, horse apple, Maclura pomifera.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1479_28Custom29.JPG)
Absolutely Beautiful. I got prepared just in case that stick decided to ride in the operator's seat. :o
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1465_28Small29.JPG)
And the framing lumber job is not bad either. ;D
Do you remember that Magicman. I'm looking forward to cutting some!
I saw that 9 year old topic and read the entire 3 pages. I treasure that pen which has gradually darkened and is strikingly beautiful.
Radar67 showed back up last year and I thought that he would stay but alas, he disappeared again. There are other former 'regular' members that have sadly disappeared. Life changes and some move on and some move out. :-X
I have milled many Bodark logs, some quite large. Bright yellow when first cut but will turn brown exposed to the sun. I always heard bois d arc meant arc of the bow because Indians made longbows out the wood. The wood makes fantastic long bows. Some will laminate strips of wood to make the bow.
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 05, 2013, 05:49:24 PM
Nice lumber. ;D
No doubt osage is very rot resistant. But I would doubt if it's more so than some of the cedars or Pacific yew. I have seen half carved out western red cedars left behind or abandoned by natives in the 19th C. Still in tact. The government has a term for these culturally significant trees. They call them "culturally modified trees" or CMT's. ;D
Also, yellow cypress, as long as it's in tact when it falls will last and last just laying on the wet ground in the mountains.
Don't bet on that.
@moodnacreek (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=34989)
You may well be correct.
I've seen northern white cedar still stand as a post after 50 years. That would be old slow grown stuff, not one with a lot of sapwood. You can find 160 year of cedar fence post sized in swamps. Old rails can be found here that are over 100 years old, probably 1870-1900 when placed. A lot of people around here cut them up for dry kindling for fires. Pretty much all gone here on the old farm, burnt up.
Actually @thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436) 's property was once covered with Osage which gradually petrified into the rocks that he is dealing with now. :D
Isn't it said that black locust will last 3 days longer than stone, or something like that?😊 White cedar is the best we have for posts, but from how locust and hedge is described I would think them superior. Well, except you can get straight pieces of cedar.
Quote from: moodnacreek on April 25, 2022, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 05, 2013, 05:49:24 PM
Nice lumber. ;D
No doubt osage is very rot resistant. But I would doubt if it's more so than some of the cedars or Pacific yew. I have seen half carved out western red cedars left behind or abandoned by natives in the 19th C. Still in tact. The government has a term for these culturally significant trees. They call them "culturally modified trees" or CMT's. ;D
Also, yellow cypress, as long as it's in tact when it falls will last and last just laying on the wet ground in the mountains.
Don't bet on that.
You got that right! The best rot resistant in North America!
Quote from: Magicman on April 25, 2022, 08:07:35 AM
I saw that 9 year old topic and read the entire 3 pages. I treasure that pen which has gradually darkened and is strikingly beautiful.
Radar67 showed back up last year and I thought that he would stay but alas, he disappeared again. There are other former 'regular' members that have sadly disappeared. Life changes and some move on and some move out. :-X
Good memories and a beautiful pen!!
We always "seasoned" our Black Locust fence post. My Brother and I felled the trees and let them lay until the next Winter when we would buck and haul the post out for stacking/using. By then the bark had completely come off. After we finished bucking and hauling, we would fall the trees for the next year. We used a 5' crosscut saw that our Granddad kept sharp and set. We made 5ยข per post. ;D
EDIT: If/when we ever used a green post, we had to debark the portion that went into the ground and even then, it would not last nearly as long as a seasoned post.
Quote from: booman on April 25, 2022, 01:51:42 PM
I have milled many Bodark logs, some quite large. Bright yellow when first cut but will turn brown exposed to the sun. I always heard bois d arc meant arc of the bow because Indians made longbows out the wood. The wood makes fantastic long bows. Some will laminate strips of wood to make the bow.
What did you make or what was going to be made out of it?
We peeled the cedar, but usually cut in winter and used during spring fence mending. You can't get back in those swamps with a machine unless it's frozen solid in winter. ;D
I have always wondered how Indians made their bows from Osage. Bucking and riving would have been difficult without metal tools so that leaves limbs.
The best bow that I ever made/had while growing up was made from an Elm limb.
No idea on the bow making. Only one I seen was made of black or red spruce and that was over 40 years ago.
I sawed a osage orange for a bowyer once, but never again. Took most of the day to saw one log. He was trying to get the highest quality bow staves with zero grain run out. Seemed like every cut I had to either turn the cant or elevate one end or the other to achieve his goals.
A lot of osage goes into game calls. I make tools like mallets, reamers, and such for my shop use.
Well I guess my science teacher was wrong. He taught us that the glaciers left the rocks behind. ;D
I would expect you to say that. Glaciated folks blame everything on Glaciers. :D
I wholeheartedly agree.
Walnut Beast, the Osage I milled were for customers and most of the time I had no idea what they were going to do with it. One person wanted a mantle cut. Also, tabletops and desktops. Some were going to make laminated bows.
Glaciers might even be what freed the north of grits🤷♂️
MM: My rocks are from Vermont and Canada from 15k years ago. I live on a glacial moraine. I am Glaciated
I escaped from the land of rocks.
BTW, my dad enjoys making wooden bows. He has made them from many species, but primarily hardwoods. He has done a lot out of elm and ash and black locust, and has done some from osage and other species.
I've always wanted to make a wooden bow. Someday😊
I like bowls made of elm, if you can get it dried good so it won't move, that makes a real pretty bowl. :)
Rocks are a nuisance on a field you have to cultivate, but they make nice roads bases, small bridges, fences, stream bank stabilizers, castle towers, etc...There's a use for every rock. ;D
Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 28, 2022, 05:20:47 AM
Rocks are a nuisance on a field you have to cultivate, but they make nice roads bases, small bridges, fences, stream bank stabilizers, castle towers, etc...There's a use for every rock. ;D
Rock on, Swamp Donkey.
Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 28, 2022, 05:20:47 AM
Rocks are a nuisance on a field you have to cultivate, but they make nice roads bases, small bridges, fences, stream bank stabilizers, castle towers, etc...There's a use for every rock. ;D
Even if it is just a paper weight or door stop.
GAB