id be interested to see what you think of this method to build the hinge....
1. i start the back cut with two plunge cuts to define the back of the hinge
2. _ then quarter cut outwards _and wedge,
3. final quater cut meeting the first plunge
4. _ wedge again lightly
5._ knock em in
6. tidy up
this i find is a good way to attack trees wider than the bar on your saw...
"swedish plunge/safe corner method"
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31987/seq.PNG)
thoughts ?
G)
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Yes, that's an "accepted" method. Especially useful on large forward leaning trees where it prevents the tree splitting (Barberchair). But no reason you can't use it with wedges on a straight tree.
Main advantage is that you get the hinge wood set up exactly right before the tree starts to move.
This is a big cypress I took down a while back. It was 52" across and on about a 10deg forward lean. Very dangerous to cut with any other method. Idea in that situation is you form the hinge, then cut the back "holding strap" and exit the scene. You DO NOT want to be messing about forming your hinge as a tree like this is starting to move (and split) over your head :D
I've made notes on the pic to explain better too.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080062text.jpg)
Whole thread here about milling the tree, and bore cutting trees in general.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,22582.0.html (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,22582.0.html)
Ian
Love the different plunge methods, have been using them for twenty years. That is about the only way it is done in Europe, not sure why it didn't take off here in the States?
The method is acceptable but I cant figure your stump out. Is that off the log, or is that the stump? if thats the stump your back cut looks way low, real hard to wedge one over that way and it pulls fiber. Usually want a stump level or a back cut slightly above the notch.
It is difficult to see what was done from the one your holding, do you have a better view?
The swedish plunge cut is a good option but I rarely see it done.
On a second note Ians link is an excellent post that cleared up all my questions.
Thanks
i chop very similar to that on about every tree i cut.
1. cut my notch
2. a couple quick short slash cuts in the front of the faceto prevent any tearing on the sides of the face cut
3. plunge in behind the hinge leaving what i want then cut out the rear and poke my bar out the back somewheres
leaving some holding wood.
4. get around on the stump and stick my bar back in where i poked my tip through and finish my cut back to my hinge wood on the oppisite side.
5. make sure i ahve a good escape and release my holding wood.
obviously sometimes a wedge or two is needed. out of habbit i typically will drive one small wedge anyways just to be safe unless its an obvious leaner.
on wood thats big enough that my 20" bar wont get all the heart i sometimes plunge in the face of my notch and pivot my saw one way then the other to ensure i released all the meat. this is a rare occasion.
Quote from: Forrest277 on February 27, 2013, 01:07:54 PM
id be interested to see what you think of this method to build the hinge....
1. i start the back cut with two plunge cuts to define the back of the hinge
2. _ then quarter cut outwards _and wedge,
3. final quater cut meeting the first plunge
4. _ wedge again lightly
5._ knock em in
6. tidy up
this i find is a good way to attack trees wider than the bar on your saw...
"swedish plunge/safe corner method"
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31987/seq.PNG)
thoughts ?
G)
=
just to clarify what i did here _
once i do the second plunge _ leave the saw in the wood like that_ at depth required
then
swivel on the tip (going no deeper) using the top of the saw to cut a Quater slot
clean first slot out and insert first wedge.
etc
Quote from: PAFaller on February 27, 2013, 01:52:42 PM
The method is acceptable but I cant figure your stump out. Is that off the log, or is that the stump? if thats the stump your back cut looks way low, real hard to wedge one over that way and it pulls fiber. Usually want a stump level or a back cut slightly above the notch.
what you look at is the top of the stump.
compared to the tree i have a small bar 16inch saw_ thats why i took this approach.
BUT all relative... bar to tree ratio
Quote from: giant splinter on February 27, 2013, 02:23:52 PM
It is difficult to see what was done from the one your holding, do you have a better view?
The swedish plunge cut is a good option but I rarely see it done.
On a second note Ians link is an excellent post that cleared up all my questions.
Thanks
more annotations _ hope it helps to explain the sequence of cuts... you can also see the proportions face/hinge/release.
"Main advantage is that you get the hinge wood set up exactly right before the tree starts to move." thanks to Ian for this quote
I also forgot to mention this one was only a few meters away from a house, so she HAD to go the right way !
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31987/b.PNG)
enjoy
G)
Thanks
That clears up any doubt.
It never caught on in the states because it's slow.
Kemper,
I would have to challenge that, I've seen it used side by side many times and it's the same most of the time, but in the hands of a pro, way faster and safer. Just my observation.
jay
my way isnt much different and it sure as heck aint any slower then any other method other then a 'hack attack' method and it sure is a lot safer and 99-100% accurate.
besides, my father always stresses the fact that a mans time choppin isnt spent cutting it off the stump, its spent limbing.
Jay -
That method has a rather devoted following in the US, though maybe not as widely used as some others. It's what is taught by the "Game of Logging" instructors, and was popularized by Soren Erikson from Sweden (founder of GOL). One of GOL's better training organizations is based here in Vermont: Northeast Woodland Training (http://www.woodlandtraining.com/)
I was a chainsaw newbie when I took their level one course, and got addicted. I've been through levels 1 through 4, and took their Storm Damage training course. Great folks, and great training. Along the way, I've met a few pro loggers who said the techniques have changed the way they work in the woods.
I'd agree with your observation that used properly it's just as quick as other methods, and the greater control often saves time in the overall scheme of things (or avoids damage).
That technique may not be for everyone, and may not be for every situation, but it does work well.
John Mc,
That's good to hear. I know back in the late 80's when I started using it, other Arborist looked at me like I had two heads. Then it started showing up in the trade journals. I'm going to be teaching a rigging a take down course to our town employees this coming summer, and that is the method I will teach, with several variation depending on the lean in the tree.
Regards,
jay
The double plunge method (swedish stump dance or whatever...) works fine when you have a heavy leaner and to short of a bar... but there are other methods that are considerably faster.
1: make the face cut (humboldt or saginaw whatever floats your boat)
2: dog in approximately 90 deg from your face (adj for bar length ect) using the tip of the bar to establish your offside holding wood, cut until you have roughly 1/2 of the back cut to go.
3: dog in at your on side holding wood location, cut until there is enough room to slip in a wedge or two.
4: continue cutting and beating wedges until she starts to go.
5: Run away (you could stay at the stump and play the adrenalin junky thing but thats yer bag not mine)
note: this is a little hard to explain without pictures, but hopefully you get the point... this will work for slight back leaners, mostly straight trees, and if you plan on doing any fancy swing cuts or dutchmens. The benefits are you don't spend all day circling a tree, your cuts will line up a little better, and you have a better chance of staying on the uphill side... but maybe that's my opinion. The GOL method has its place (on heavy leaners) but it probably gets overused...
I'm also GOL certified. Directional felling is a good tool to learn to use. As far as "overusing" it, that's hard to say. In the Ozark hardwoods, I use it 80% of the time, and always, if there is a front-lean. Mills around here expect the wide face cut on the log, and just turn it so it comes off with the slab. Even if you don't think you'll ever do a plunge cut, GOL teaches a lot of other techniques for limbing and cutting spring poles. And I go along with John Mc. If it saves one hung up tree a week, any extra time quickly pays for itself.
I guess the other benefit would have to be in chair prone trees, the swedish stump dance should prevent chairing, if used properly, but then a coos bay would work just as well, and still be faster.
As far as directional falling, every tree should be planned out and fell where you want it to fall, getting hung up is a mistake, or a result of bad planning or aiming. No amount of boring the back cut is going to make up for a poor face cut, or misjudging the lean.
Humboldt vs Saginaw is as old of a debate as ford vs chevy. And really just as pointless...
By the way I'm not GOL certified and don't intend to be certified
thenorthman -
I'm not saying that the GOL training is something everyone should have, or that bore cutting is the best technique in any situation. Just that it's a useful tool in a lot of situations. I'm cutting for myself, and don't do this professionally, so speed is not one of my primary goals. I could never make a living at this... I'm too slow, don't have the right equipment or experience for commercial scale operations, and am out there as much to enjoy myself in the woods as I am to get firewood or the occasional sawlog.
However, I have seen the GOL techniques in use by guys who do this for a living, are very good at what they do, and have been in the business for a long time. They use the techniques in a wide variety of situations, not just heavy forward leaners (for example, getting a wedge into a tree with back-lean, especially if it's not big enough to tap the wedge in behind the bar as you but in from the back). They don't seem to feel it slows them down at all... if it did, they'd have long since switched back to something else.
On the other hand, the majority of the trees we're cutting in the North East are small enough that they do not require boring from both sides. For me, a 16" bar handles the majority of trees with ease, without needing to cut from both sides. (But then, I'm generally culling low-value trees for firewood, and leaving the good stuff for later.) A lot of the pros in this area may use a little longer bar, but probably nothing like what you run into out your way.
I fell trees for 30 yrs, from 50 to 400 a day, i took pride in my directional felling. I probably used x number of felling methods, no two trees are the same, i never used the bore cut or a wedge. I used the box cut on bad leaner's.
I've had 3' Norway uprooted, 10 to 15' high stump ball, 70 to 90' tall, laying at a 30 degree's with the top bowed touching the ground. I never cut-em off at the stump, because you can't get low enough, to much waste. I would cut where i could reach with in reason, getting a short log. Then i'd under cut it, cutting a pie out as deep as i could with out pinching the saw. Then i'd duck under the tree and make a strap cut on it, now duck back under and strap cut that side. Nows when it gets interesting, I'd reach up and make the top cut. When the saw touched it, it sounded like a rifle shot, the butt cut and stump ball would stand back up with dust fling everywhere. After the dust settled down i'd clean the dirt away from the stump so i could cut it ground level. The Co. hired me to clean up big White Pine and Norway blow down. Because of no waste or splinting of these high dollar trees. I loved doing it, theres nothing like the rush of the moment and doing a good job.
Quote from: dboyt on February 28, 2013, 08:43:24 AM
I'm also GOL certified. Directional felling is a good tool to learn to use. As far as "overusing" it, that's hard to say. In the Ozark hardwoods, I use it 80% of the time, and always, if there is a front-lean. Mills around here expect the wide face cut on the log, and just turn it so it comes off with the slab. Even if you don't think you'll ever do a plunge cut, GOL teaches a lot of other techniques for limbing and cutting spring poles. And I go along with John Mc. If it saves one hung up tree a week, any extra time quickly pays for itself.
Thanks to all you guys for the enlightening discussion.
I would like to add that I find all the comments useful...
... whether you bore cut or not. I have one further story to tell on the matter, whilst working on a felling team we were called to a private job to fell some huge oaks that must have been over 1.5m in diameter.
Even with the pro saws we carried there was no bar long enough to just do a couple of slices to make a hinge etc guess what method we used ? gotta bore that sucker ::) !
all the best to the forum and happy cutting
GF
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