I have been using a 30hp to do most of my skidding and loading logs. I put a 55 gallon drum of concrete on the three point to help the little guy handle bigger logs. I was dragging a maple log out of the woods yesterday with the chain hooked to the drum. The log caught the tip of a large rock and stopped the tractor in its tracks and my knees hit the steering wheel. Well now the two arms that hold the drum are at different levels an some fluid is leaking out of where the lift mechanism attaches to the tractor. I must've broke the shaft or something. It needs a rebuild as well. I guess I'll fix the little guy and retire it from log handling.... So I begin the search for a bigger tractor...
It's hard to believe how much those little tractors will do. But it sounds like its time to take your game to the next level . About ten years ago I was faced with the a similar decision and I purchased a older skidder which has been a great tool for me .
GO GREEN :D :D :D :D :D :D ;)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/3205/logging_004.JPG)
Good luck with your search :D
Jake, You were going so fast that your knees hit the steering wheel? That is some fast skidding I must say. Yarding out firewood is about the only thing I find my tractor too small as well. Skidders are the way to go if you have the volume of wood. For 4-6 cord (4x4x8) a year I think a tractor will do just fine.
I wasn't going that fast I didn't think. Going from 4mph to a stop instantly is still a pretty good jar.
Peter, do you have to put license plates on tractors in NH?
Yeah, go green! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIG3ldJORqY
Or red may be ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN7yMiOQEIw
Ya broke it . :( Parts ---http://www.andersontractorinc.com/default.htm ,one of the largest salvage yards in the mid west ,about 15 miles from my house .
I would give some thought to having SPD748 dad go find me a tractor. He apparently can steal them legally.
Your next tractor,have loaded tires and get rid of the counter balance. I like fuild in the tires. Puts the weight where it should be. I just feels it makes the tractor pull better. My FIL has a weight box on his small JD.He has a hard time with it. He always complains about it and think my wifes little NH should be the same way. ::) And his hardly sees nothing but lawn and tar.I had the tire loaded on her tractor too.
Quote from: AdamT on March 06, 2013, 08:46:31 PM
Peter, do you have to put license plates on tractors in NH?
To drive on the road yes, a farmer going field to field the cops don't push it to much :)
They use something besides calcium chloride now,beet juice maybe .However I've welded up more rims on old tractors from calcium than I can remember .I don't know what it is but it eats up the rims weather the tubes leak or not .
It might be a point of arguement but on the three point hitch if you can get the weight up on it I'm not so certain ballasted tires make that much difference .Once you get enough bite to raise the front end another 8-900 pounds of tire ballast is only going to raise it higher .
I've got two TO-20 Fergys both with big bore kits .One is just a standard tractor,one has a Davis industrial loader .That one has a barrel of concrete for a counter balance held with chains ,not the three point and has a swinging draw bar with wheel weights .
The bare tractor with a load on the three point will pull just as much as the loader tractor using the swinging draw bar .The difference is the weighted tractor keeps the front end on the ground and the other I about have to steer with the brakes at times .
My Kubota 8540 with a fel and Farmi winch has beet juice in the tires.
I was told the only problem is if is is super cold it may freeze.
Pete
Calcium and rusted out rims,just like the oil wars. :D
I still have my Fathers '54 NAA Ford with the tires filed up with calium and we never done anything to the rims because of the calcium due to rust. But when we had leaks we fixed them too,that day or the next. I'm not the type that can do things others can not either. Most times if others have trouble,than I had it too. I have 1 tractor used just about everyday and one only really used for mowing in the summer time. I do have a snow blower on the back of "her" tractor. They both have calium in the tires. I really doubt the rims on these 2 tractors will go 50 years without having something done to them due to the calium.
Quote from: customsawyer on March 07, 2013, 05:28:00 AM
I would give some thought to having SPD748 dad go find me a tractor. He apparently can steal them legally.
:D :D :D
I'd be willing to loan him out.
-lee
:D Yeah I will have to admit it takes a couple of decades to rust through a rim .It's a pain in the buttocks to drain out the calcium and a worse nuisance to pump it back in but I've done it .Brass pump driven from a drill motor with plastic tubing .Where there's a will there's a way .
Problem is you can't get it all pumped out .So there you are trying to pry out the tube with 80-90 pounds of fluid still in it .Then lift that mess up to dump the remainder in a 5 gallon bucket or three .It was bad enough trying to do it a thirty and it really sucks at twice that age let me tell you .
The last go round after I spent a day gas welding the rims back together I gave it up for a lost cause and just put air back in the tubes .
Windshield washer fluid works for tire fluid.
If you want to add weight without the rust go with the powder, or save some money and be creative with some older IH, or JD wheel weights, with a little creativity you can adapt about anything. Thats what I like about older tractors, they were designed to use wheel weights, and can usually be found at a reasonable price if you look around.
Jim
When I bought a new tractor in '81, the dealer told me to add iron, not liquid to the tires, as the vibration from the water going back and forth will wear out your gears. The old 4020 I bought in the 70's used has never had liquid, still has the original gears, if not the clutch.
Since they came out with radial ag tires I'm not so sure they use liquid ballast that much now of days .That plus the fact most if not all newer stuff it coupled with some form of a draft control system and very little is in the form of a conventional drawbar hitch .
Now regarding that 4020 ,that ole boy could drag a fair sized log not matter if it had ballast or not .Might be an oldie but it's still a goody .
Quote from: Al_Smith on March 10, 2013, 09:04:57 AM
Since they came out with radial ag tires I'm not so sure they use liquid ballast that much now of days .That plus the fact most if not all newer stuff it coupled with some form of a draft control system and very little is in the form of a conventional drawbar hitch .
Liquid is used pretty regularly in the rears on loader tractors, otherwise not so much. Not sure where you're getting your second claim, the vast majority of new equipment hitches to the drawbar. In fact I've taken the 3pth arms off two of my three tractors because I never used them.
Good question Al. Seems like weight boxes, and those new "R" tires ::) are the way to go now. I did buy a used tractor and the tires was loaded with calium and I was very surprised to see that.
Al seem like you can argue about the Oil Wars and I can argue about loaded tires and we both get no wheres. :D ;D :D
Well it does make for lively conversation if nothing else . ;)
Now as far as drawbar stuff they stopped using the standard old breaking plow years ago in this area .As a result most implements are carried on some form of a lift hitch . Fact the darned things are so wide you'd almost think you are in Kansas if you saw them going down the road taking up fully from ditch to ditch on a county road .Plus a majorty of the ag stuff in this area is either front assist or articulated 4WD monsters .100 HP like that gents 4020 JD would be considered a small machine in todays methods .Ha my Fergy is just a garden tractor but then again really it's all it ever was .
When I'm skidding logs with my small tractor, I put a drawbar on the 3 point arms and a big clevis on the tractor's main drawbar. Then, I hook the chain to the clevis, go up and over the 3 point drawbar and hook to the log with a set of tongs. That way, I'm pulling with the strongest point on the tractor and can still lift up on the front of the log if I need traction or to clear a stump or something.
I think my Kubota L-48 has potassium chloride, or something like that. Heavier than Calcium, but not as corrosive. No problems in 12 years. My L-48 is ok with the backhoe on, which weighs 2,000 pounds, but with it off it lifts enough to get sketchy really fast. There is 1,200 pounds of ballast in the rear tires, and with the hoe off, it is stable. With the hoe on, it is really stable. :D
I've seen some big hoes hook something to the hoe and pack it off .You can get the front of a big hoe in the air with a big enough load .
Oh I suppose I can pack out about a 3,000 pound log if I can get the weight up on the 3 point . Problem is I can't steer it .
There's some big ones ,dead ash that need to come down but I think I'll fire up the Oliver crawler for that job .Those I'll probabley roll the fronts up on a "stone boat" .I hate dragging with the front of the log digging a furrow .You have a little ditch that lasts forever plus a muddy log to deal with .
The best option for ballist that I have scene is Beat Juice in your rear tires. Its really heavy and non-corrosive. The only problem is the price
Quotethe dealer told me to add iron, not liquid to the tires, as the vibration from the water going back and forth will wear out your gears
That advice doesn't add up. IMO
They tell me they squirt beet juice on the roads sometimes in place of salt .
I also have never heard of ballasted tires causing problem with the drive lines . Oh you can hear it sloshing around in the tires some times until the muffler gets some age on it and burns out about half the baffles .I think they make the darned things out of old tin cans no longer than they last .
One of these days I'm going to get fed up with them and make a whole exhaust out of stainless steel and that will end those problems until the end of time or the end of Al which ever comes first .Most likely the later before the former .
Gee Al I've never heard it slosh around and that old Ford is mighty quiet with a muffler on it. I grew up around that tractor. Notice I said around and not on. If it was moving my Father was on it and I was walking beside or behind it. There are many of those old fords with calium in those rears tires. Not many rear ends went on them critters.
You about have to run them out of oil to ruin them .They can get a little loosely goosey in second gear but that is just a shim on one of the gear shaft bearings .Problem is you have to split the tractor to get to it .It's just caused by 40-50 years of wear on a Timkin type tapered bearing .
What happens is it binds up so bad if you stall it you can't get it out of gear with out pulling the darned thing backwards to "unwind " the gear train . That tip came right from a service manual the location of which I'm not exactly certain of at the moment but it's floating around here some place .I only had to do it once in my life time --so far .
Depends how much liquid you put in them I guess. The tire guys here won't let them get below about 85% full. They don't slosh much when there isn't much empty space. If they were only 30-40% full sloshing might be an issue
Quote from: beenthere on March 10, 2013, 12:44:24 PM
Quotethe dealer told me to add iron, not liquid to the tires, as the vibration from the water going back and forth will wear out your gears
That advice doesn't add up. IMO
It don't add up for me either except that the dealer prolly makes quite abit more on weights than he does on fluid ::)
Guys, on my beastie
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19153/jibpal12.jpg)
Tyres are full of liquid, or nearly, by the sound of it, may be four to six inch have air on top. And they weight a ton (realy!) ;D
I think it's along windscreen liquid, or something like this. I've never cracked one open thought to see if there's any rust. I've bought this last year.
I have never heard of the the drive line problems either. I can vouch for what happens when you get the tires rotating a little to fast going down the road ;D never thought a International 504 would hop but it will.
Tractors are as bad as 4 wheel ATVs in that people think they are unstoppable and untippable. The truth is they get stuck, tip over, tip backward, slide like toboggans on the right surface, go into speed wobbles and any number of other dangerous non stable maneuvers. Don't know why I am still alive.
We farm full time as well as log and fill all of our radial tractor tires with water and antifreeze to keep it liquid. the big tires will hold a 1000 pounds of water and that helps traction a whole lot more than bulky steel weights although we do run them on the from from time to time.
Quote from: gwilson on March 11, 2013, 09:41:54 AM
We farm full time as well as log and fill all of our radial tractor tires with water and antifreeze to keep it liquid. the big tires will hold a 1000 pounds of water and that helps traction a whole lot more than bulky steel weights although we do run them on the from from time to time.
Yep, water/antifreeze preparation in my rear tires also. The calcium preparation causes too many problems, or so says the dealer who put in the liquid when the loader was added on.
Quote from: r.man on March 11, 2013, 08:56:12 AM
Tractors are as bad as 4 wheel ATVs in that people think they are unstoppable and untippable.
Well a lot think that way about dozers too .I almost did at one time until I swamped one so deep the fan was throwing water in my face . They will slid sideways too .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22463/IMG_0552_28640x36029.jpg)
I thought about green until I realized just how much GREEN I'd have to fork over so I went with the No.1 selling tractor in the world! Mahindra! I love this 50hp beast and it yanks the logs out for me as is.
I put in Les Schwabs 'biogaurd' or whatever they call it (something like beat juice) which while something like $700 to do (3/4s full each tire) it added enough ballast that I NEVER even notice it. In fact, my rear chains are too big and rolled into the grooves in the tread, so basically useless (I was just too lazy to remove) but I never even slipped on solid ice going up and down this hill! The weight in those tires also keeps the strain off the frame and 3-point and puts it all right on the ground. Best way to go IMHO.
Oh and the green? A lot less then what JD wanted so I saved a LOT of GREEN not going green ;) :P
Looks good,how many hp??
The Mahindra 5010? It's 50hp
Mine is also gear rather then hydro and I love that too! I debated Shuttle shift and hydro but if you want to run a baler etc then you better not go with hydro etc as I'm told the bailed beats the crap out of them. So mine you actually have to shift (LOL so what, I've shifted vehicles all my life anyway) and I'd have it no other way now :D
I have a manual too. No big deal to me,for what I do. I Only work mine in the woods and digging rocks. It does not see any field work and as you said it's no big deal to shift. Much less to go wrong with a manual too. I've looked at those tractors many too. They do look good.
I have a hydro tractor and it works great. I mow grass, use snowblower, woodsplitter, tiller, loared, logging winch and a few other things. Hydro is very handy for mowing, snowblowing and tilling when variable ground speed is useful yet maintaining PTO speed is important. I never owned an automatic car but I do like the old hyro tractor. If I were mostly yarding logs I would want a gear machine tho.
I used to think standard trans were the only way to go with tractors. Then I used a e-hydro out in the woods hauling logs and doing other clearing chores. My land is comprised of ridges and gullies. I can hold the tractor in place on a slope or close to the edge better than I ever could with a clutch, plus I do not need to fear slipping the clutch inadvertently and taking a dive.
Same here, and whatever task is at hand the hydro tranny is way out front in convenience and safety, IMO.
Leaves a hand free from changing gears and a foot free from clutching. And plenty rugged to stand whatever test put to it.
We have two tractors,the 40hp as I explained above and a 30 hp,with a hydro that is used just for mowing and snowblowing. I have the best of both worlds,2 tractors and two diffeant trannys. They both work good for what we use them for. ;) I really work my 40hp digging rocks and working it in the woods. Those two things are just about all that poor tractor does, the only time it gets a break is when I'm not on it. I put ALOT of hours on the 40hp and the wife puts just as many mowing on the 30hp. I can put 700-800 hours a year on mine.
Thats a nice machine OlJarhead, you wont be disapointed. Mahindra actually builds Deere's tractors in that size range. The only difference is the paint, the price, and the green tractors have cheeper bushings (at Deere's request)
Quote from: flyboy16101 on March 13, 2013, 09:43:40 PM
Thats a nice machine OlJarhead, you wont be disapointed. Mahindra actually builds Deere's tractors in that size range. The only difference is the paint, the price, and the green tractors have cheeper bushings (at Deere's request)
LOL really? I never heard that before but I knew Deere's are also built by Yanmar so it's not surprising.
That Mahindra is a good looking tractor, Erik and 50 hp will do about everything you need. My little Kioti is only 30 hp and while it is limited, it's still as handy as a pocket on a shirt. I wouldn't take for the hydro tranny.
Quote from: flyboy16101 on March 13, 2013, 09:43:40 PM
Thats a nice machine OlJarhead, you wont be disapointed. Mahindra actually builds Deere's tractors in that size range. The only difference is the paint, the price, and the green tractors have cheeper bushings (at Deere's request)
I do not believe that is true. Where do you come up with that?
Back in the early 90's, Deere did rebadge Yanmar tractors, until they built their plant in Augusta, GA. For a few years, the smallest compact utility remained a Yanmar painted green.
Now they are green, ground up as I understand it.
I thought it was mahindra but it could have been yanmar that makes them. I was talking with with some factory reps a few years ago at a farm show and that was there claim that if you set the two machines side by side there was only the three differences.
Quote from: OneWithWood on March 13, 2013, 05:28:47 PM
I used to think standard trans were the only way to go with tractors. Then I used a e-hydro out in the woods hauling logs and doing other clearing chores. My land is comprised of ridges and gullies. I can hold the tractor in place on a slope or close to the edge better than I ever could with a clutch, plus I do not need to fear slipping the clutch inadvertently and taking a dive.
X2
manual in the field, hydro in the bush. 8)
Last year I was told they were Yanmars when I was looking at a new Yanmar and made the claim that it looked an awful lot like the Deere's I saw.....
I have a 263 MF 4WD with FEL and love it. I bought it new in 2000 and it has paid for itself many times over skidding and loading logs, mowing and baling hay, plowing, and general farm work. It has manual 8 speed with shuttle fwd/rev. We have many brands of tractors on our family farm including JD, Ford, A/C, and IH. The main reason I chose the MF was because there is a dealer and parts place 20 minutes from home. The features I would look for and enjoy the most are: FEL with bucket and forks with quick change system, 4wd, shuttle transmission, and enough weight to to the job safely. As far as brand I would go with a close and dependable dealer/parts network. I can't comment on hydro vs manual because all I have ever used is manual.
I do like the hydro tractors, my friends Kubota L3800 will run circles around my shuttle shift tractor. I would argue for the Kubota over the compact Deere, the Kubota drive train is cast steel and I think the the Deere is aluminum.
For lifting and moving logs, the little Kubota will move logs nearly just as big as my 3930, but I can pick up the logs no problem with my forks, where as the Kubotas rear comes off the ground pretty easy. The Kubota ends up half dragging logs around.
I am looking for more of an industrial tractor to use around the mill and on the farm. Maybe a 4x4 backhoe with flip over forks. Farm tractors are ok, but they take a beating moving logs, that is why the big boys use skidders instead of large farm tractors.
scottmtfarm,my NH dealer is twice that far,but the salesmen lives in the same town as I do. Does it count that he drops off any parts I need right to my door step? ;D
thecfarm, you can't get any better than that. Thats customer service and that is what counts. Any tractor is worthless if it isn't running. We use mostly NH hay equipment. The local NH dealer here stocks very few parts. There is another about an hour away we use because they will meet us with parts and they usually have what we need in stock.
i have a shuttle shift kubota my boss has almost the same model in hydro,for baling and brush hogging i'll take the hydro although it can be noisier,but for plowing snow i'lltake the shuttle because you can use the steering brake to spin on a dime.i've not run one but the mahindra's look like a hell of a rugged tractor for the money.just my 2 cents.i've run a few deeres as well and have no problems with them except price,prefer shuttles on them.
If I was going to buy a tractor to work in the woods and could not use wheels brakes,I would not want it. I use my brakes alot in the woods and even when digging with it too. Or even a tractor to work. It would be a bother without the brakes.
I don't know where the claim comes from, that he hydro tractors have no steering brakes. If I understand right it is the split brake...right?. If so, my hydro tractor - for one - has the steering brakes and I agree, they do come in handy at times.
Some models don't.
When I brush hog around the pond bank, the uphill brake is usually the only form of steering.
Yeah and if you get too close and sink a front wheel in the pond real quick like you'll be in it too .Ask me how I know . :D
Oh it wasn't so bad ,only in to the radiator .Left it run and fired up the dozer ,out it came .
Quote from: GDinMaine on March 14, 2013, 10:01:35 PM
I don't know where the claim comes from, that he hydro tractors have no steering brakes. If I understand right it is the split brake...right?. If so, my hydro tractor - for one - has the steering brakes and I agree, they do come in handy at times.
just saying the kubota hydros i've used had the hydro pedal right under the split brake pedal making them almost impossible to use unless you had the ground speed lever set,i've seen JD's with the hydro pedals on the opposite side.just depends on the setup i guess.
well iscrewed that up and got gdinmaines quote in my reply his words stop at handy :D :D
When I bought the 4020, it was my big tractor, but now it is my small utility tractor. I even got a new tractor the same size, except for FWA and cab heat AC radio etc, that I use to bale and feed in the winter, but can't part with the 4020. Put a new clutch, rebuilt the shift linkage and new radiator this winter, the whole bill was 2600. Bet you can't fix up a new one for that money. Today I heard an ad on the radio for Mahindra, said they have a factory in the US, and are built here now.
Those 4020's are getting rare and have really increased in value in the last couple of years. We run a couple of open station 4320's and they are one of my favorite tractors to use.
Give me a hand guys,Model numbers I get last mighty quick with any kind of tractor. What kind is a 4020,hp? I take it kinda old? I suspect it's a 2wd, more of a field tractor?
4020 is about 95hp and was made from the mid 60's till the early 70's IIRC. It is/was a field tractor.
4020's are the best way to riches I know. It seems the secret is to buy one, put a zillion hours on it, let it set outside with no maintenance, and sell it for double what you pay for it.
The first used one I bought years ago I put 2,000 hours on it, depreciated it out, and learned about paying federal taxes out it when I sold it.
I can't see the attraction these days as they are expensive to run and maintain. There are a lot cheaper alternatives if you're looking for horsepower.
The more I look at used tractor prices, the more I am thinking about getting a used backhoe.
If you don't need a 3pt hitch and PTO then a backhoe is a very handy tool to have around. I would be lost without mine.
We picked up an ex city owned 580 superD backhoe with the 4-in-1 bucket (clamping bucket) and it has been really handy. It does weigh about 15k pounds. I would not recommend it for rough or steep terrain. Alot of weight up high with the hoe on it. We only paid $8k but it had the engine rebuilt since the city idled it alot which over heats the rear cylinder. Runs great now and only shows 3400 hrs.
yup Jake, i need a backhoe again too. If I could find an attachment for my cat I think I'd be set for support eqipt.