I'm starting down the path of making some dining room chairs in a Maloof style the wife and I like. I laid up the ash a couple years ago so I built a prototype and plan to build several batches more.
Here's the prototype
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12867/CHRS31392.JPG)
and here it is near the table they'll go with.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12867/CHRS31383.JPG)
So I don't wan't to paint them black but I want to get good penetration with a very dark brown with some redish highlights. Any suggestions? Thinking to finish with a satin wipe-on probably.........but open to ideas.........
Lud
Try some Watco Danish Oil in either light or dark walnut stain. Easy to apply, and runs deep.
The ash being ring porous will not be a great match with the diffuse porous walnut, but the colors can be close.
Take sample pieces and try different blends of the dark walnut mixed with natural available in the Watco Danish Oil line. It is what I use.
Your chair design looks great.
Lud......your chair is VERY NICE. Never seen a design like that.....but it's top shelf. smiley_thumbsup
I had good luck on the darker colors using a gel stain. Varathane Early American is dark color that works well on ash and if you wanted you could put a coat of mahogany on underneath it first. The amount of red streaking that showed through would depend on how much of the darker gel stain you wiped off.
Lud, that is beautiful, Sam would be proud of that. You really caught the esence of his work, but still made it your own. If you go out on the net, I think you can still get his formula for a natural oil finish. There is a manufacture making it, but it's nothing like what he made. An alternative, is a blend we use called "Land Ark," or you could go with just a tung oil, then a varnish if you are into that type of finish. As for color, boiled black walnut shells is a good way to make your own, then add to oil and make test samples. You can check the net for that too. Staining/dying wood with natural dyes has several approaches. One that may work for you is a denatured alcohol dye wash of the walnut concentrate then oil the wood once you get the color you want.
Good luck, and again beautiful work,
Regards,
jay
Jay, I've tried that in the past and since I'll be making several batches of chairs over time, I 'm going to pass on the cook your own as I want to have a consistent result.
AHH, I've had success with the gel in the past but I'm concerned for soak in as I 've had some wear off of steps and I need so much color change. When I tried additional coats, it seemed to get out of control and not add depth.
Beenthere, I'm kind of interested in the Watco finish if it soaks in good. There's a dark walnut and a black walnut both listed as available in quarts. Can you tell me which is darker?
Thanks to all for the kind words. Chairs take a lot of abuse and can be tough to get right. The prototype is pretty comfortable and the joints fell very strong. Post, I suggest you look up Sam Maloof on the net. There's even some video of him on You Tube. He passed in 09'. Nobody freestyles on a bandsaw like Sam did. 8)
Fantastic chair Lud :-*
Scrap the ash and use walnut,problem solved ;)
Personally,I'd mix up a gallon of alcohol soluable dye,from Lockwood Green,seal the ash with a 20% verathane 80% mineral spirits,one light coat.Then spray the dye,let dry for a week,then spray poly,3 or 4 coats.
Jim
Lud
The Dark Walnut is between the Medium and Black Walnut. I will often tone down the Black with some Natural, depending on the match I'm after.
Here is a link to the colors, and will show how the ring porous ash likely will come out.
http://www.woodnshop.com/Watco_danish_oil.htm
Also, here is a good guideline to use and it follows pretty close to how I finish with Watco Danish Oil, including the wet sanding process for a very smooth finish.
http://www.woodworking.com/ww/Article/Super_Smooth_Oil_Finish_7507.aspx
I have found the Watco Danish Oil to be VERY easy to work with, unlike some of the steps needed for staining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=o3Ysfw0LmMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ygOsqYsOY
Great info, gentlemen. Thank you very much!
I'm inclining towards the Watco Danish Oil and it seems those prices are better than at Woodcraft but maybe shipping would tilt it and I couldn't tell where they were.
Another question is will steel wool or the nylon pads work the same as sandpaper to create this slurry pore filling process? And finally, how does the Danish oil handle glues or fillers? I used Titebond III.
Thanks again. 8)
I don't do steel wool on any finish. Don't like the real fine steel wool residue. But may just be me.
The nylon pads might work, but I've only used the wet/dry sand paper. I know it works.
Would be interested if you find the pads work.
Quotehow does the Danish oil handle glues or fillers? I used Titebond III.
Not sure what "handle" implies, but I don't think either will bother the WD oil. Nor do I think the oil will affect the glues or fillers.
Excess glue likely will not take the stain, so needs to be sanded down to wood so that it will not show.
There are recipes available on the internet for using actual walnut husks to make your own dye that works great. I used it once, and it turned maple into walnut color, but I will warn you to wear gloves.......my fingers were dyed for 3 weeks.
You can also use a dark colored transtint dye to achieve the same. With soluble dyes, you will not achieve the final color until the finish (lacquer, waterbased, poly, etc....) is applied over the tinted wood.....so remember that when you're experimenting on a test board to find your final recipe.
I use transtint dyes to ebonize wood with some frequency, and it works great.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. As I said to Jay I'm not going to cook something up for a finish when I expect to be making chairs for a few months. No way to ensure consistency.
Beenthere, I was impressed with your source of the Watco Danish oil by comparison to Woodcraft's price but decided to look around and a place called ThePaintStore had a even better price for the volume I wanted.
I guess all I'm saying is that you just have to check around for the best price and always include the shipping costs in the calculation before you buy.
You can also make some walnut stain. take walnut husks and soak them in a plastic bucket with ammonia . it will drain the dye out . strain before using. Really nice looking chairs.
Here's the first batch of 3 in process with the prototype. Clamped and glued the legs and backrest to the last one and will attach the arms and put in the 16 plugs tomorrow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12867/2013Chrs004.JPG)
The flash makes things kind of blue. Here's the backs in better light.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12867/2013Chrs005.JPG)
Got my Black Walnut Danish oil last week and hope to put the first coat on soon. Tested a board with some Cherry Danish under the Walnut and didn't get much reddish tone so may look for some of the new Mahogany. I feel that a swipe on the seats and backs would be sufficientas it seems to pickup in the Black walnut and spread out.
Two days ago I put 3 coats of Black Walnut Danish oil on the chairs, over 4 hours between coats, and today I put the fourth coat on and , I tell you, the best thing it did was let me wipe off the build up leaving a nice medium brown oil finish. Not nearly as dark as I hoped. Maybe some of the forestry guys will tell me that the ash is a real tight grain and won't absorb as much.
i cut a sample I'd put 4 coats on in half and there was no appreciable depth of absorption. Not a 32nd.
I'd say the Ash was so light that the Danish Oil has darkened up the cracks and crevices nicely and it's a good start but not nearly as dark as I hoped to achieve. :(
Thinking I may need to go to the gel stains if I have to build up a surface finish......
After the first coat has sealed the wood, it is very difficult to make it darker. Furniture factories spray with a dark lacquer.
The first 4 chairs came in the house today after a wax and buff. I wound up using a gel finish as the Danish oil didn't "evolve" the ash chairs far enough. I wanted a bit of red under a dark brown called Java. The wife and I agreed we didn't want red chairs or black like we've had so here's what we came up with.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12867/ChrsAp13B5.JPG)
That runner on the table is one of wife's complicated weavings
Here's another angle
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12867/ChrsAp13B7.JPG)
The next batch of 3 is coming along and there's enough planks up in the barn to make the final batch.
Wow! Nice job. Chairs seem like they would be alot of work. Seems like you ended up with a nice dark java.
Those are some fantastic looking chairs you built, Lud! 8)
Beautiful chairs Lud. They look great around that table and your wife's weaving skills are impressive as well. You two make a pretty talented pair!
the chairs really fit well in the room, you did a great job.
and that weaving is amazing too, before you said your wife made it I was going to ask where you got it, it really brightens up the room. :)
Thanks for the kind words about my wife's and my work.
Chairs are a lot of work to do from scratch. I'd cut the nearly 2" stock three or more years ago and got it down to 6% up in the top of the barn. The wife and I picked the design after searching Sam Maloof designs and I found the Scott Morrison DVDs in the Woodcraft catalog.
Studying the DVD dozens of time , taking lots of notes all helped. Morrison is an accomplished furniture maker. I'm not. He's table saw / jig driven. I'm not. Makes for some interesting puzzles to solve.
I've cut the stock for the next set of 3 and done the initial glue-up of #5 and #6 in the last two days. Practice does improve quality! And sitting in the chairs at the table over the last few days lets me analyze their performance and when I carved the next three seats I cut them in a "skosh" deeper. The Maloof joint notches the seat blank and rabbets that notch making a sort of tenon that a dado in the leg fits in, glued and screwed and really strong. Yesterday's joints got me up to 24 times I've made this joint and I'm getting better!
So I find chair building real interesting but don't plan on going into business!! 8)
The chairs turned out great, Lud, very organic look. I'm impressed with the job you did dyeing/staining them.
Lud...can't believe I missed this thread. That is some really excellent work on those chairs. They are gorgeous! If ever you run into this staining problem again, use an aniline dye stain, sometimes called alcohol stain. get several base colors and mix your own. you will be amazed at the depth of color you can achieve. Oil stains excel at bringing out woods natural colors and showing contrast, but are very poor when trying to develop deep color tones. If you ever decide to use Aniline dyes, I'd be happy to offer some techniques to use them to best effect.
got anything else in the works?
I like the design of those chairs. My wife would like the runner.
5Quarter, thanks for the aniline dye suggestion. It sounds like it would do well with Ash and there's plenty of that around these days.
The chairs have proven to be very comfortable for all size folks. Seems like sitting around the table for hours after dinner is what every one wants to do. Some of the smaller domed head glides on the front legs were crushing and I'm changing them out to a different brand but otherwise all ten chairs are weathering all the abuse we can give them.
I worked a lot of Osage Orange this Fall, turning close to 70 pieces! It's some hard stuff . I know that sounds like a lot but 46 of them were minatures. I'd sawed the log as 1 x 4 and had picked up all the trimmings and cut 4" discs as mini bowl blanks.
You see I've made a few dozen of some doodad every Christmas for the last 33 years to give away in place of Christmas cards. So I turned 46 of these mini bowls, sanded to 600, engraved and pyro metrically decorated the bottoms. The ladies love them and many are placing them next to the sink to hold their rings ,etc. It was a great exercise and expands your turning skills. Kind of like practicing "Flight of the Bumblebee" over and over would build up your sense of "touch".
Next up will be a couple of 6' long tree swings a customer just ordered. I have some QS White Oak that should last a lifetime. They'll be a lot easier than the chairs! 8)