This could be a disaster for the east anywhere there is an Indiana bat. The state already restricts logging to the winter months in the southern 1/3.
Indiana Bat and the Private Landowner
NOTE: The information outlined in this article applies to ALL landowners who own land that is suitable habitat for the Indiana bat. CFW landowners are not being singled out based on participation in the CFW program.
Private landowners must comply with the Endangered Species Act. Since the Endangered Species Act is a regulatory law similar to the Clean Water Act and The Occupational Safety and Health Act, the cost of implementing the program falls on the regulated community; in this case private landowners. Private landowners are not compensated for any reduction in property value or any reduction in their ability to manage or develop their land as they desire.
Since the vast majority of CFW landowners own woodlands, chances are good that they either have or will have habitat suitable for Indiana bat (Myotis sodalis). The Bloomington Field Office (BFO) of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has issued guidelines for avoiding the incidental take of Indiana bats within Indiana. One guideline prohibits the cutting of trees greater than three inches in diameter between April1and September 30. The April 1 through September 30 restriction period is extended through November 15 if the property is within 10 miles of an Indiana bat hibernacula. These occur in Crawford, Greene, Harrison, Lawrence, Martin, Monroe, Orange, and Washington counties. This limits timber harvesting to the winter months.
Presently, the only landowners affected by the guidelines are those whose lands fall close to known roosting sites, maternity colonies or hibernacula that have been identified by the USFWS. These sites are usually discovered as part of the development of an Environmental Impact Statement prepared for federal projects such as I-69 or the U.S 50 bypass around North Vernon, IN. As more projects are developed more roosting sites and maternity colonies will be identified and the acreage of private land covered by the guidelines will increase. Contact the BFO of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to see if your land is affected and to obtain a copy of the guidelines.
The USFWS offers an alternative to the 12/19/2011 guidelines. They will issue an Incidental Take Permit to a private landowner who agrees to develop and abide by a Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) approved by the USFWS. An "incidental take" is the accidental killing of an endangered species while conducting what would otherwise be a legal activity. In the case of forest management, the legal activity is timber harvesting. Developing a HCP can be a lengthy and expensive process that can be out of reach for most small private landowners.
What should you do next?
1) Contact the Bloomington Field Office of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and determine if any of your lands are within the restricted area created around known maternity colonies, roost trees and hibernacula. The contact information is at the bottom of the article.
2) Ask for a copy of the BFO Forest Management Guidelines for Avoiding Incidental Take of Indiana Bats within the State of Indiana (revised 12/19/2011). There are restrictions that apply to canopy cover requirements, harvest restrictions on certain tree species, dealing with snags, TSI in riparian areas, size requirements on trees that must be left in the woods and prescribed fire. You, your forester and your logger should be familiar with all of the guidelines that are outlined.
What if your land falls within one of the restricted areas where a known roost tree, maternity colony or hibernacula exists?
1) Abide by the guidelines. Any other choice puts you in danger of taking, harming or harassing an Indiana bat. Cutting a tree greater than three inches in diameter between April 1 and September 30 (November 15 if hibernacula is involved) would put you in violation of the guidelines and by inference put you in violation of the Endangered Species Act because you would be harming habitat that could be beneficial to the Indiana bat.
2) When you are ready to conduct any management activity make sure that your private forester, logger, TSI vendor, etc. are aware of your situation and the restrictions that apply to management.
What if your land falls outside the restricted area where a known roost tree, maternity colony or hibernacula exists? Currently you can perform any management activity listed in your Stewardship Plan and these activities can be done on your time schedule. You will have to decide how to proceed with management activities that balance your rights as a private landowner with the needs of the Indiana bat.
For further information on the Management Guidelines for Avoiding the Incidental Take of Indiana Bat within the State of Indiana contact:
Field Supervisor: Scott Pruitt
e-mail:
Scott_Pruitt@fws.gov or MidwestNews@fws.gov
620 South Walker Street
Bloomington, IN 47403-2121
Phone: 812-334-4261
Fax: 812-334-4273
TTY: 1-800-877-8339 (Federal Relay)
Hope it doesn't cause too much trouble
Glad those are Indiana bats. ;)
Have to wonder who makes up this nonsense, and why we keep allowing such nonsense to beat us down.
Not only the EPA, OSHA, and the USFWS are nuts, but a number of other agencies can't wait to tell you what you cannot do. No one seems to be telling us what we can do.
As far as I know only trees that might be affected would be LARGER Shagbark Hickories and possibly some trees that have a possible open hollow suck as some larger beech with broken limb openings. I have never seen any pats roosting (other then temporarily) outside in an open tree canopy. I do think it would be a poorly written law/rule/regulation but that seems to be the norm (written to break as many of our rights as possible.)
Mark
The Endangered Species Act has become a tool for anti-consumptive use zealots. The USFW service is rife with them.
When the Canada Lynx was listed as threatened under the ESA in the lower 48, the zealots thought they had found the key to crush the timber industry. Maine is at the southern-most edge of lynx range, and the population and it's needs had never been quantified. The zealots claimed lynx needed old-growth forests, and logging roads fragmented habitat.
Our own Inland Fisheries and wildlife then began conducting their own long-term study, and it turns out the things we real woodsmen already knew-that lynx-prefered food snowshoe hare thrives best in new-growth cut-overs, and that a lynx is no more afraid to cross a logging road than any other critter.
In short, logging benefited lynx.
I hope you fellows affected by the listing of this bat are able to have the right people doing the right studies looking for thr real results, instead of the bogus garbage the ESA is so often being used for now.
Its been twenty years or more but a conservative contacted me about cutting timber on a property they owned just west of Toledo Ohio. Over a hundred acres they told me they wanted openings total clear cuts in these openings. It was for some kind of butterfly so I figured they must fly south in the winter. When I asked about it, O No they stay here and get under the bark of trees and winter. I scrated my head and couldn't figure out how or when a fellow could log it. I passed on the job ,not because of the butterfly but log grade in that area isn't very good . Trees will have pin notts all the way to the ground.
I was asking about seeing bats when cutting trees. Just wanted to see what others had seen or not seen. Getting some anecdotal evidence.
One zealot in Bloomington In is leading this.
My previous forest management plan mentioned saving shag-bark hickory for bat roosts. Voluntary thing, but shag bark and scaly bark trees are a few of favorite 'save' trees.
In all seriousness, I believe 'bat roost boxes' should be installed where habitat is such a concern. we have one in our grove, not sure if the bats have ever used it, but they're welcome!
Red Shouldered Hawks were our Spotted Owl for a while. Federal funding including Pitman Roberts Funds were held up among others. It was claimed they needed unbroken old growth etc. It was quickly found that they loved to hunt edge habitat. State sales still have a condition that if a raptor nest is found on a State timber sale the logger needs to call in Wildlife to have it checked out. A no activity zone is established and the sale volume adjusted.
Once they list you as critical habitat, your property rights are at peril. :-\
the funny thing since the spotted turkey was mentioned, I've never seen one in old growth, seen a bunch of em in second growth... in fact not much wildlife at all in old growth, flying squirrels( which are cool as Hel by the way) and small nefarious rodents but that's about it
It was never really about the cute little owls, the tiny fish or the rare plant. It is about consolidating power and stopping economic activity.
Important safety tip: If you don't leave hollow trees in your woods, you are less likely to become a critical habitat site. Let them nest in your neighbor's hollow trees.
the only the only bat endangered here is the Louisville Slugger....The spotted fowl was just a tool used to shut down logging in old growth.. They found out it was the barred owl that was causing the numbers of spotted owls to decrease.
Ruh ro. Looks like we've got one here in Georgia. This could get interesting.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/transportation/endangered-bat-to-delay-dot-projects/nWzdR/
I can't take it anymore, I got to speak on this to certain points. As an environmentalist and someone that tends to lean toward the "critter," side of things, our logging and land writes aren't the only things being put on the edge of extinction. Good science and logic are also being muddied and run into the ground. Every time I turned around after getting out of the Marines, one organization after another, that I use to belong to, went the way of a bunch of "screaming meemees." Most of them freaks of a nature that I had never seen, like "Vegan" half wits, complaining about everything from the boots on my feet, to the fact their dog's teeth are falling out, Hmmm, let's see, the last time I checked, your dog was a carnivore, not a bloody rabbit, so if you are feeding them lawn cuttings like yourself, the dog is bond to get sick. It needs raw meat, kinda like I do sometimes. :D
As for this bat, it is nothing more than a sub species of the common myotis (little brown bat.) Lets spend that money your wasting on some political agenda of the DOT, on studying the "white nose" fungus that came from Europe that is killing all the bats, not some obscure sup-species that is probably going to go extinct all on it's own, like so many do.
We have got too not only take our land writes back, but good science. I want the facts...all of them, not just the ones that push an agenda. Do we cause harm with our neglect of the environment, of course, but so much of society wants to point a finger at what is perceived as the target, when quite often all they need do is look in the mirror, and their own gluttonous life styles. I am so sick of the science funding being taken away to do useless studies, that never really amount to anything because of the agendas behind it. I know I'm ranting, but we have gone from one extreme to another. Now I can't even go into the wilderness without someone telling me when, where, and how I can do it...please, like they have a clue. Paul Petzoldt was a friend and a teacher, he was also the founder of NOLS, (National Outdoor Leadership School.) I never knew the man to go into the woods without an ax, (and often a gun.) He must be rolling over in his grave.
Well put, Jay. This forum is filled with many small landowners who are good stewards of their land. I'm tired of people who know nothing about real management preaching that anything that humans do is wrong and evil. I do more to take care of this planet in a week than these jokers do in their lifetimes.
grrrrrrr
Come on, Jay, tell us what you really think. :D
I couldn't agree more.
Ranting,yes. right,yes. We all feel the same way,but until we put a bunch of money towards fighting the eco's thru the American Loggers Council in court we're not going to win anything.The eco lawyer's make a good living coming up with ways to keep others from scratching out a meager living.Start sueing them and wacth them cry foul.
Please join A.L.C. & your local logging association.
This is going to be very political. I met in a small group with our Lt Gov. She took this very seriously. There will be a big effort on this. This has already went to Washington. Industry knows what happened in the NW could happen here.
Well my daughter who has a string of degrees about a mile long was once the environmentalist who approved nearly eveything in the state of Ohio from an evironmental stand point .She would have continued had not the state of Ohio elected a little "Hitler governor but that's another subject all together .
Never the less on a recent project involving a high tech moon shine still commonly called an ethanol plant they had to remove every shagbark hickory within 1/2 mile of that location .All because they figured a danged Indiana bat might nest in one and suffer health problems .In my opinion that was one of the dumbest thing I ever heard of ,all over a bat .They must have thought the bat might become intoxicated from the fumes or something .Send the bat back to Indiana and let the Hoosers deal with it .
Geeze I even heard they are raising a fuss over the giant wind farm up in VanWert county for fear a goose might get chewed up by a rotor . Now a goose is pretty dumb but they aren't that dumb .
Actually, lots of dead birds are found around windmills. I think it works something like roadkill on the highway. Just not something within their little brains, that a big club would come down and conk them on the head.
There is no technology that does not have both good and bad outcomes. We need to be smart enough to balance them.
Up and coming: Windfarm effects on rainfall distribution (they act like little mountains) and general air movement.
Just a clarification: Bats roost in all trees that have exfoliating bark. That would include, but not be limited to, Shagbark and Shellbark hickory, White Oak, Sugar Maple and dying trees of many species. It is the female bat and her brood that use the exfoliating bark for cover and body temp control. The males tend to hang out in the snags. So a moratorium as has been suggested by USFW would pretty will shut down logging within a 5 mile radius of suspected bat habitat. In Indiana and many states that would cover most of the forests.
The science I have seen is that clearings in the forests attract the insects that bats feed on most (moths). I am hopeful that with newer technology (discriminating sonar vs mist nets) it will be shown that logging may actually improve bat habitat.
I agree totally with JC White Cloud.
Quote from: mesquite buckeye on March 23, 2013, 01:02:36 PM
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Up and coming: Windfarm effects on rainfall distribution (they act like little mountains) and general air movement.
Well if you saw that stretch of land near Van Wert Ohio where the wind mills are it's as flat as the Bonneville salt flats .Nothing at all stops the wind prevailing westwardly from Indiana which is nearly that flat itself .
Probabley all that wind blew the bats into Ohio a zillion years ago and they can't fight the head wind to get back to Indiana .
They keep cutting down the shag barks they might blow into Pa. and they can deal with them .Fact being on that the wind the last couple of years has taken out a lot of those 100 footers .Tough trees but full in folage an 80- 90 MPH straight line wind will snap them like a tooth pick .
Moths come from caterpillars. Caterpillars like lots of young green plants. Openings in the forest provide places for the young green plants to grow.
Bats seem to like skid roads to travel on.
These 2 things should be researched to show one way or the other if they are beneficial to bats.
Cedarman...,Creator forbid we ever prove logging is good for the forest...what are you thinking man...have you lost your mind? :D :D :D
How about all the mammalogists I know that are dying for funding to study bat hibernaculum and nesting in artificial boxes that loggers could hang and monitor for them...the list goes on of good and valid research that can't find funding because of it going to large corporate research grants and funding plans for the DOT subcontractors that don't do "diddly" for us. Logging and conservation not only can go hand in hand, it's been trying to really hard since the mid 70's. If Big Government-Big Business would get out of the way, and actually let something productive happen!!!!
Now we're talking about a so called Indiana bat that the ding bats think needs some help .Does it really though .I mean they've survived probabley since the beginning of time without it .
Now this "forest lane " business. We're talking the midwest ,farm ground ,20-50 -100 acre patchs of hard woods .Certainly not hundreds of square miles of trees like on the western slopes in the Rockies or the left coast .
Besides that hardwoods are not clear cut in 10-20 acre patchs like on the slopes with Douglas firs ,they are selectively cut .You aren't killing off habitate for the bats by taking down a few trees .A couple of big oaks sawn for fine furniture ,trim etc might screw up a place for the red hawks to land but they do pretty good big oak or not .
The mid west is not high impact logging like perhaps Oregon ,Washington state etc .
I'm under the impression that several species of bats suffer from 'White-nose Syndrome', a complex disease of hibernating bats especially in cave colonies but also this disease affects the Indiana bat. According to U.S. Wildlife, millions of bats have been infected and died from 'WNS'.
It is thought that disturbance in cave bat colonies,' man-made and natural causes' have a great influence in promoting the disease.
QuoteIt is thought that disturbance in cave bat colonies,' man-made and natural causes' have a great influence in promoting the disease.
And it doesn't take much "thought" for all heck to break loose and easy to put the slam down on the logging industry. Just a bug in their ear that a bat is using a tree, and the surrounding area is protected for life.
Sorry to rant, but it happens when the Gub'ment agencies feel they need to do something (just anything to show they are responding) to earn their keep. The list of examples is a mile long.
Once in effect, such quarantines usually stay in effect.
Interesting about Logging Trails/Paths & Roads as where I worked back in 2002 or so there was a group that came in and strung up some bat netting across the Nat Gas right away that ran thru company owner's woods. It was summer and you could not run thru the woods without being eaten alive by deer flies & horse flies. At night 100's of bats loved the area 3 BIG ponds )8 or so acres) with some yard lighting & the woods came alive with bats. They caught lots of brown bats & Indiana bats & some rather rare ones from what the group said. Wonder how bad the skeeters and bugs would have been without all them bats :o
I road 4 wheeler thru the woods to the back farm to get some supplies out of storage barn and my white tee shirt looked like I had black poke-a-dots. Wish the Bats ate deer flies & horse flies too lol..
m
Between barn swallows and bats if they didn't exist the bugs would be worse than they are no doubt .
All caves on state and federal ground in Indiana are off limits to cavers and everyone else. Years ago bats were routinely killed in caves by ignorant people that did not understand the value of bats. By going into bat hibernaculums in winter disturbing the bats causes them to rouse and use energy. If they awake too many times they will not have enough energy to make it until bug eating time. Cavers being rather environmentally conscious of life underground are interested in bat conservation and promote good research.
If the state can close all caves on the state, it is not too much of a stretch that all caves could be closed all year long to prevent the spread of whitenose. Cavers know that would not do a thing to control its spread. Bats "kiss each other" and easily spread the disease amongst themselves.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a major bridge project near Des Moines, IA has been put on hold because they found an Indiana bat. Guess he must of got lost.
Just another small clarification on this...the Indiana bat is not a subspecies of the Little Brown Bat, it is a separate distinct species. Little brown bats are Myotis lucifugus and Indiana bats are Myotis sodalis. Same genus, different species and as everyone already knows and are likely just having some fun with the name, just because they call them Indiana bat doesn't mean that's the only place they occur. As far as where they roost, it is not just shagbark hickories, but any tree with exfoliating bark like OneWithWood suggested. I was involved in a study a few years back (I work for industry) where they glued radio transmitters to the back of Indiana bats they caught in a mist net and then tracked them for 2 weeks to see where they traveled and roosted. Their daytime roost was a giant dead cottonwood with the bark peeling off in sheets. In regards to White Nose Syndrome, Cedarman is correct that it will definitely spread among bats of the same cave via their own interaction, but what the USFWS is attempting to do by closing caves is limit the amount of interaction between caves. People traveling between caves will only help serve as vectors for the disease and it's not just Indiana bats that die. Many bat species are susceptible to white nose and it is definitely putting a hurt on the bat populations everywhere east of the Mississippi. I'll give you a dire prediction for consideration, right now you're really only dealing with restrictions for Indiana bats, but if white nose continues to spread and decimate the bat populations you're going to see nearly all the Myotis spp. added to the federally threatened/endangered list.
None of this is meant to tell anyone that they're wrong for being angry. I would feel the same if the federal government told me I couldn't cut trees on my own land.
Bats need 2 things. 1) a home, 2) food
In cold weather, bats stay in caves mines and other places with the correct temperature that different species of bats like. But there are some species that overwinter in the leaf litter on the forest floor.
In warm weather, bats like under the bark because that hides them and keeps them warm.
Logging may destroy a few homes and maybe kill a few bats if they happen to be in the tree that is cut down. A small survey of loggers indicates they rarely see a bat come out of a tree that they cut down. USFWS has never found a dead bat caused by logging that I know of. They just assume that bats may be harmed by logging.
On the plus side logging may increase the food supply, the second thing bats must have to survive.
I have heard through the caving rumor mill is that scientists spread the disease in the beginning by going to cave after cave looking for dead bats, just like they spread chicken lung fungus by inspecting chicken houses in PA. They carried it in their own lungs.
The white nose fungus likes cold and damp. The disease should do less harm the further south bats are. Winters are shorter and bats can feed later and earlier in the seasons, thus letting them combat the disease. It is hoped that the bats will develop some immunity to the disease just as European bats have. This is where the disease originated.
QuoteAs for this bat, it is nothing more than a sub species of the common myotis (little brown bat.)
This was my comment Axe Handle, and it dates how long I have been out of college. You are correct that it is it's own distinct species now, but it wasn't. Subspecies and species taxonomic designation is part of the politics of science I didn't like, nor do today. Often science ego drive research and funding. It is often arbitrary, even in the face of generics, which is now opening up all types of discussions and reclassifications across the biology field. Like "Grizzly" and "Polar" bears, which are to separate species, but are starting to hybridize as the female Polar Bears are being driven off of shrinking ice pack. My point is still the same lets fund useful research, not political research, and ego driven science.
QuoteI have heard through the caving rumor mill is that scientists spread the disease in the beginning by going to cave after cave looking for dead bats, just like they spread chicken lung fungus by inspecting chicken houses in PA. They carried it in their own lungs.
Cedarman,
I belonged to BCA for many years, while in college and out, I am also (was) an avid caver. You are dead on about our conservation ethic, and it could well have been a scientist doing research that spread the "white nose syndrome." From everything I have read, and followed, it was. This discussion is about Politics, and more importantly the bad science within and behind politics. I didn't finish my PhD because of these very issues and continue to "struggle against the machine."
Let's blame loggers, and lets make sure we only fund research that is on our political agenda, not necessarily the research we should do, but the research big business, big government wants. I can't begin to tell you how often other research is pushed off the table, or underfunded. It drove me out of college, and into the Marines. At least the politics in the Marines was in your face and honest, for the most part, not so much today...
If we loose the big picture on bats and bees, we as a species could seal our own fate. Spending millions if not billions on bad science and political agendas over some species like the Indian Bat, and not Bats in general is foolish and misguided. We must practice triage when allocating funding research money is to be spent. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that looking at the big picture is more important than focusing on a detail. I understand that the Indiana Bat is an indicator species, as is the Polar Bear, but how we approach the research is really poor.
There are no caves in this part of Ohio .The bats roost/hibernate where ever they can find shelter .Often in a portion of a hollow tree .
Perhaps 10-12 years ago I unknowing cut right through a bunch of them hibernating in a hollowed out portion of the largest soft maple I had ever seen in my life time .54" at breast high .Spit those little rascals out into a snow bank .About his time of year and a typical late March snow on the ground .Little rascals woke up and flew away like nothing ever happened to them .
To reiterate on the subject I still don't feel the low impact type of logging down in the midwest will have any effect on them.It certainly didn't decimate the squirrels or raccoons one bit if that accounts for anything . There's more deer now than there was in pioneer times and on and on .
When you see birds of prey in abundance there has to be prey .One sign of a healthy ecosystem and we have hawks and owls galore .