I am sure one or two on here use a bobcat or tracked loader for your sawmill. How does it work out compared to a tractor with FEL?
I am considering selling my 55 horse JD with FEL because I don't do enough ag work now , mostly use it at the sawmill. It is too long and only lifts a ton. I think a bobcat on tracks that would lift 2 tons or so would work better at the mill, and you can rent about a million attachments for them for special jobs.
I think that I would need a 7 or 800 series cat to get the lift I want, and I know it won't be cheap, but I see good looking used ones. My tractor is worth 16 0r 17k, so I think I could swing it.
What think you guys, anyone have one I can play with for an hour or so?
Thanks, frank
Frank,
The skid steers are very handy around the mill and the tracked models are very sure footed with plenty of power and lift to do almost any task.
The attachments are available for almost any task at hand and in most cases interchangeable between manufacturers, there is a slight learning curve in how you get around without tearing up the underfoot grade when turning in the dirt but you will figure that out easily. I highly recommend skid steer loaders for working around sawmills and for general tasks like snow removal and all the construction applications.
Frank,a small bobcat type loader would be little advantage over your tractor.A heavy larger skid steer is another story and with forks, well adapted to log moving.The best machine I ever used around the mill was an ASV on tracks,would lift a lot more than a bobcat and very maneuverable.An off road dedicated machine like Bibby uses is probably the best.Most of the time I use a large skid steer and it handles anything I want to mess with. Frank C.
i have a bobcat 763 to use around the mill, it will lift just over a ton on forks.
i got it to replace our 50hp tractor FEL, was a massive improvement and would never go back.
will handle most of my work althow a large front end loader like this (https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2Jo0yRB51SYZbYpsYYg2-p-9xTkCKk_FlJTFUiJf9tFrw-EM7cw)
is more suited to a sawmill.
Frank -I have a 873 Bobcat with both lumber forks and a custom made log grapple. I agree with others that you will need a big one and the tracked loaders give great stability. My likes are : they turn on a dime and great in small areas, easy to haul on a trailer [low centre gravity], lots of lift power. However, my dislikes are : they chew up the ground where-ever you use them, very slow to move from one place to another, are limited to loader work, vs tractor has multiple uses, hard on fuel, and expensive and unfriendly [due to enclosed design] to repair. I am in the opposite position – I want to sell/trade my skid-steer for an 60hp ag tractor. I do more skidding and farm work and the bobcat is limited. Tom
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31497/DSCN0787.JPG)
frank I have a track loader I'm using to make my mill site bigger and I have a basement to dig after that I'm looking for a tracked skid loader,like frank said for the size logs you slab it would take a 60 to 100hp skidder to handle them,I use my jd 455g to load my big logs with no problems,the skidder move around better and are a lot quicker,you can use it to move saw dust and they dig some what, if you do get one I would look for a tracted one
tj
I have rented skid steers and small excavators in the process of developing my property. a good sized bobcat with a couple of attachments should be able to be rented for under $300.00 for a day.
8 hours in the saddle should give you a pretty good idea if that is the machine for you or not.
I spent about 6-7 hours in this beast last week, and once in and settled (bar down, seat belt buckled, on button, start button, operate button and AC on) it was pretty comfortable clipping 35' spruce trees at about 18' and again at ground level.
But once in, not easy to jump out to do little things - like readjust a lift chain, or move something on the ground, or whatever. Not as easy as stepping on to the tractor platform or down in to the seat like Bibby's machine. Loader arms have to be all the way down to get the door open. How often do we get off and work around with the loader arms holding a load up, like rolling a log off the forks onto the mill ??
Rent for the skid steer and the clipper (which rotates 90 deg from vertical too) was about $300
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/101_1148_28Medium29.JPG)
Quote from: rmack on August 12, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
I have rented skid steers and small excavators in the process of developing my property. a good sized bobcat with a couple of attachments should be able to be rented for under $300.00 for a day.
8 hours in the saddle should give you a pretty good idea if that is the machine for you or not.
x2 --- I have always tried to rent what I am thinking of purchasing - that even goes for cars! Not a fool proof method of course....
I trust you have used them before but in case you haven't - I'll pass this along a couple of pain points:
difficulty in getting on/off
difficulty getting to systems for repair/maint.
limited visibility
uncomfortable/loud/hot seating
lower seating position
Some of them are better than others in these regards. Renting would help you get a sense of this. Give me a nimble, 4WD tractor with FEL anyday; but I understand "to each his own". So good luck either way!
The first question to ask is, what kind of terrain would you be on? We are on mostly concrete and gravel, and go with tires. If you were in sloppy conditions, I think the tracks would be the way to go. I don't know what the replacement costs of tracks are, but I would suspect them to be way high. As far as lifting capacity goes, I know our L190 will pick up a skid of osb, which is around 4500 lbs. If you ever get a skid steer, you will always wonder how you survived without one.
Concerning the problems of access to maintainence. Our bobcats were horrible to work on. Not sure if the newer ones still are. The New Hollands have full access. At least the newer ones are.
Ok, this is something I might actually know a little about. :D
I started out in the late 70's with a Bobcat 610. When I sold it I went several years without one, but finally broke down and bought another old 600 series Bobcat. I graduated to an 863, and then I went to an ASV 4810. After that I bought a brand new Terex (ASV) PT-100G forestry model, got rid of it and now I'm back with Bobcat.
All of these have worked with my sawmill except the 610, and the 600 Bobcats. I didn't have a mill then, and they would be way too small for the task at hand.
The 863 would handle a pretty good sized log with a grapple, but was a little limited with forks. I just made my units of lumber a little smaller. The old ASV 4810 would handle pretty big logs, and handled lumber with forks well. But the controls were awkward and hard to get used to.
The Terex PT-100G would pick up a LOT of weight, but unfortunately my dealer wasn't very good at doing their job after the sale, so I got rid of it.
I'm running a Bobcat T320 now and am pleased with it. It will handle about as much as the Terex would, and I have better dealer support.
A skid steer, or compact track loader is much more maneuverable and quicker than a tractor/loader.
If the door on the front of the machine hinders you from getting in and out as quickly as you would like...........Take it off.
Any machine that is moving logs, and bundles of lumber is going to tear up the ground to some extent, with practice and a little finesse any of those machines will do less damage.
As far as maintenance and repairs go...Air, oil, and fuel filters are pretty easy access on most CTL's and skid steers. Repairs are a major pain in the rear on just about any machine with the work COMPACT in it's description.
Tracks for a CTL are expensive along with the rollers, idlers, and sprockets. Before you buy any CTL you should check on the prices of these consumables before making your decision. OEM tracks for a Terex (ASV) can cost upwards of $6000.00 a pair. You can find aftermarket tracks cheaper, I gave $3800.00 for a pair a few years ago. Aftermarket for the Bobcat are about $2400.00 a pair.
Andy
My log yard is usually very dry (and dusty) or very wet (and muddy). A skid steer or tracked machine will chew it up in no time (tried it once). So my preference is an articulated loader. Mine's a Cat 910 although I'd prefer an IT12 for the quick-change feature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UxKhvIo4J4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here's a video of our smaller loader in action. About every brand makes a machine like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVosFcvb1MQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
The larger machine.
Thank you gents! Great info for sure, Frank
Frank, I have a John Deere 270 skid steer, and it is used daily around the sawmill. It's good for about 3,000 lb logs, and as I recall is around 82 hp. If you're in the Raleigh area, you're welcome to stop by and try it out.
Mine has a set of forks with a grapple on it, which is invaluable when handling logs. Long makes them. Another good option for handling logs is a Loflin root rake with a grapple, but the forks have a longer reach and can pick up stacks of lumber, which the rake cannot.
If I were in the market for a skid steer today, I would give the tracked Takeuchi units a very close look. I know several contractors / mill owners that used different brands, but presently really like them. I recall that they have TL250 and TL12 sized units.
I got to run a T300 yesterday at a site moving logs, I think it is big enough for what I want to do. Earlier thought I would need a bigger machine.
scsmith, thanks for the look at Takeuchi, they must be easier to service cause the cab flips forward.
The research continues.
Frank
I had a chance to use a telehandler like Bibbyman's a few years ago. Once you get used to them, they'll spoil you. Wonder how one would be for pulling logs out of the woods (without the forks)? Seeing that video makes me really want one.
There is a brand new new holland at the sycamore project .Old jake night let you try out if you can make it down.It's a sweet machine.I have a low hrs john deere 325 that you are welcome to demo if you get down this way.The nh has electronic controls over the jd with linkage .Much smoother but more expensive to repair.
Both of out Tetexes have only a couple of inches of twist in the suspension. The front axle is fixed solid. The rear axle hinged but will only move at most a couple of inches. Thus if you run one tire onto something taller than a brick, it starts to lift the other off the ground. Then it spins like a high centered turtle. Also, they are geared with two speed hydraulic transmission that is good for moving loads but not for pulling heavy loads.
The short answer if they are no good for skidding logs.
Thanks again all. I am going the tracked loader route because it will be replacing my tractor. I will still need to bushhog and such. It would be nice to have a articulating loader also, maybe after I make my first MILLION cutting slabs!
If you can, hang on to the tractor as long as possible, to see if it is really the move you want to make.
If it is a trade-in deal, you prolly won't be able to buy one as good as this for the same money.
I love my skid loader for certain tasks. But often times when moving things like logs, lumber, hay, sometimes even dirt I need to get off the machine to open a gate, move something, measure something etc and with the skid loader that is either impossible or very uncomfortable and unsafe.
Personally I would never want my only loader to be a skid steer type unit.
You can bush hog with a skid steer. One year I rented one from a local outfit that rents out some attachments. Worker put it on, and commenced to bush hogging. Everywhere. Like the line in an old Johnny Horton song goes, he went places where a rabbit wouldn't go. He gets done after a full day, puts it back on the trailer. Then he casually remarks, can you believe that thing will mulch concrete? I thought Oh Lord, I have to take it back. To make matters worse, it was brand new. The gal that rented it out wasn't supposed to. They were not happy.
Seaman,
Plan on spending $12 per engine hour extra for a Track Loader verses a Tire Loader for under carriage maintenance. That's if you are in the dirt.
Get on rocks and concrete, you'll wish you were buying tires not tracks.
ElectricAl
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10103/Super%20Grapple.JPG)
I have heard that AL. I've never owned one of these but I have heard people say just what you said.
All this info is great!
So do all brands use foot controls for the bucket of are some different?
Frank
Some, maybe most, have the bucket/loader control in the right hand joy stick, and the LR-FR in the left hand joy stick. Least the Case I had last week had that design.
In winter tracked machines can accumulate a lot of mud which must be cleaned to make sure you don't freeze up over night. Anyone who has ever froze a machine up, knows why you don't want to freeze a machine up.
Frank,
On my little 763 bobcat skidsteer the controls are switchable. You can run the lift arms and bucket with your feet, which I prefer, or run them with the hand controls.
Tripp