I have several of these little trees on the eastern slope of my forest. The largest is about 6-8" diameter with a 25-30' height. I've not seen evidence of fruiting or flowering yet. Here is a shot of a leaf against the bark of the largest one I've found.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33443/photo28729.JPG)
Update:
Here are two leaf/twig pics of these trees, one of the top and one of the bottom. If this helps anyone be more able to ID this I'd appreciate it. I'm certain they are one or another, but determining if the undersides are glabrous or not is confusing me.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33443/photo_1%7E2.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33443/photo_2%7E2.JPG)
Thanks
The leaves of American chestnut are without hairs. All the chinkapins are hairy beneath. Both Allegheny chinkapin, Castanea pumila and Ozark chinkapin, Castanea ozarkensis occur in your state. The Allegheny chinkapin is conspicuously whitish and hairy beneath and the Ozark chinkapin has fine hairs under the leaves. The Allegheny species also has more hairs on the young stems. The species' ranges do overlap. ;D 8) 8) 8)
Historically, american chestnut did not range across the Mississippi River. Like Mesquite said, if what you have is american chestnut, the leaves should be glabrous (smooth without hairs) on both the upper and lower surfaces. The chinkapins have hairy leaves on the underside and the twigs also have a gray fuzz.
Another distinguishing characteristic is the burr. American chestnut had 2 - 3 nuts per burr and the burrs are 2 - 3" in size while the chinkapins only have one nut per burr and the burr is 1 - 1 1/2".
If it is chinese chestnut from Asia, the leaves and twigs will be hairy with the underside of the leaf a little lighter in color. The burr has 2-3 nuts like american chestnut. I bet it is a chinkapin.
Chest nut
It is all in the burr and the hairs :D.
Chinkapin oak. I have a few of them. Not sure how far you are from me.
Looks like about 2 1/2 hours west.
Chinkapin oak, Quercus muehlenbergii, has glands on the tips of the teeth on the leaves. The leaves have blunt tips because of this. The chinkapin has more of a pointed hair-like tooth on the serrated edge.
I guess you are politely telling me I'm wrong then. :D Whatever it is, I have some of them also and am not too far away from the OP.
Yes, I am being polite. I have met you and found you to be a fine fellow. It was a great pleasure meeting you and Lindy. I am trying to ease you into the possibility that it might be chinkapin, but hey, I have been wrong before :).
I've been told by some of the old timers that there used to be a lot of chinkapin in the area, but it all died out in the 60's or so.
I'd say if we could see the fruits, we could make short work of these uncertainties. ;D 8) 8) 8)
It isn't a chinkapin oak, as I have several of those I've started from seed. Their leaves tend to be wider towards the tip , not symmetrical lengthwise like these are, plus they have a more "oakey" bark for lack of a better term. How hairy would the Chestnut leaves be? This one has something fine as frog hair underneath, almost microscopic, but it isn't thick or fuzzy.
Here is a pic of the leaves from the parent tree of my little Chinkapin Oaks. Note the tip-heavy asymmetry. And blunter teeth.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33443/oaky.jpg)
The fine hair would fit the bill.
If it has acorns, it is an oak. If it has burs, it is a chinkapin.
If it is a chinkapin, from what you say it is ozarkensis.
OK guys, I'm an idiot, but I was assuming we were talking about Chinkapin Oak VS Chestnut Oak. Was I wrong? Somebody mentioned Chinese and American Chestnut...
We are talking Oaks, right?
WDH and LeeB are thinking it is a chinkapin oak, which is an oak of the white oak group that looks like a chinkapin, which is a type of native chestnut. There are several of these. The two genera are easily distinguished by the fruits. The problem here is we haven't seen the fruits in the photos. The leaves are superficially similar. ;D
Hope that helps.
As far as I can tell, the tree isn't fruiting, and hasn't for at least 2 years
We are talking about actual Chestnuts or Chinkapin trees, not oaks. I'm fairly certain it is not a Chinkapin oak, and I don't have Chestnut oaks.
No Mesquite. That is not right. I think that it is a chinkapin, definitely not an oak.
WDH- apologies. I misread your posts. :-[
Our chinkapins are evergreens. I've never seen a chestnut, but that leaf doesn't look like one of our golden chinkapins (can't remember the latin name, sorry).
Golden chinkapins are Castanopsis. The ones we are talking about are Castanea, so these are more closely related to the American Chestnut. Castanopsis is a mostly Asian genus, with just a couple of species in North America. Golden chestnut is still a fairly close relative, but the leaves are pretty different from the Castaneas. ;D
Yes, I am a Castanea guy, myself :).
Hey WDH, are you going to try to get one of those newfangled chestnut blight resistant Am chestnuts? ;D
No.
I don't do the foreign stuff much.
was the chestnut blight responsible for killing off the chimkapins also?
They are more resistant, but I think so.
WDH- it is supposed to be an actual American Chestnut that has incorporated the resistance from the Chinese one, but backcrossed multiple times so that it is a true american with resistance.
Least that's what I heard. ;D
MEsquite,
I'm looking forward to those becoming more available (the truly resistant backcrosses). I'd cover my hills with them.
What I read they said they would first make them available to state parks natl parks etc. Apparently, they haven't got many of them yet and/ or haven't heard of vegetative propagation. They could tissue culture up a bazillion of them in short order. ;D
There's a bunch of those new chestnuts in the national forest a few towns away from me. They're looking real good, nice and healthy and growing fast. I just hope they hurry up and start producing nuts, I love chestnuts. ;D
If that is a chinkapin it would be a big one. Most I have ever seen were not much over 4 inches across and they were bearing.
The only healthy looking chinkapins I have seen were in Ozark, Ar. and in the Jasper/Low Gap region. Ours I have stumbled across look terrible, and look like they're half dead.
Pyatt huh? I know a fella out there your way, he worked for the Postal Service and brought the mail from Harrison over here..I bet you know him, he is or was a a great big heavy set man named Bill. I worked at the turkey houses with him sometimes.
Quote from: LeeB on August 29, 2013, 10:57:56 PM
was the chestnut blight responsible for killing off the chimkapins also?
I may be bad wrong here but weren't the American Chestnuts killed by an infestation of worms? Or did the worms come in after a blight killed the tree?
The blight was caused by a fungus, Cryphonectria parasitica.
Yes...when active, it looks like an open red sore at the base of the tree...the kiss of death. The true test of their success won't so much be the nuts (imo), but the size of the tree. An American Chestnut can grow to a fairly large size in a short amount of time. was not unusual to encounter trees 7-9' across and others even bigger. Similar properties to White Oak but much easier to dry. I hope I live long enough saw some.
I think it's just a knarly, armed and twisted beech of some kind myself. Look out, it don't bite ya. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Bchnt.jpg)
Ok, I'll behave now. ;D
Looks like American chestnut to me. Saw a bunch of them in Ohio this past summer, of which many were producing fruit. I have been watching a few of the bigger ones for several years now. Sadly, they seem to get about 10" diameter & begin to die.
I added 2 more pics for yall
I still say chestnut. Looks just like what I have been seeing.
that first picture looks like what everyone around here calls chestnut oak
Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 06, 2013, 05:01:51 AM
I think it's just a knarly, armed and twisted beech of some kind myself. Look out, it don't bite ya. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Bchnt.jpg)
Ok, I'll behave now. ;D
Photo sort of looks like the Ozark-chinquapin,[castanea pumila var. ozarkensis], a close kin would be the Allegheny or downy Chinquapin. These have the spiny burs.
At one time had donated to the cause of bringing back and propagating O-c. I have two saplings, drought killed them back but they both came back strong last year. Think a skidder got one of them this past fall. :-\
Canker supposedly killed off the trees and only remnants of regrowth from stumps remain. Some growers have had some luck.
But I have a very few Chinkapin Oak I've found and trying to save a couple of mature trees and a few saplings.
I was joking with that post, it was a picture of beech. ;D
Okay then, let's stray a bit further. What about the "Quercus prinoides"? Dwarf chinkapin[chinquapin] oak. Now, I'm excited about this shrub-tree for wildlife purposes. Listed as a shrub and reportedly has acorns in 3-5 years!
I'd like to introduce them into my natural plant food plots. However, the book says this shrub can be difficult to manage on prairies, forms thickets..that's a plus.
The only ruffed grouse I ever saw in our woods flew from under a shrubby-thick-leafed bush in snow. Could of been a chink? I've wished a thousand times I could find it again[the shrub].
I'd say it's a pretty textbook chinkapin. Probably Castanea ozarkensis. It is undoubtedly a Castanea of some species, not a Quercus.
Quote from: chain on December 29, 2013, 10:15:53 AM
Okay then, let's stray a bit further. What about the "Quercus prinoides"? Dwarf chinkapin[chinquapin] oak. Now, I'm excited about this shrub-tree for wildlife purposes. Listed as a shrub and reportedly has acorns in 3-5 years!
We have a nut producing shrub here called beaked hazel. Some years you could fill a burlap sac in no time. They have to be culled for grubs, but they taste real good. :)
American Chestnut Old reclaimed barn Beams, Posted picture if I can find it.
Quote from: chain on December 28, 2013, 08:52:52 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 06, 2013, 05:01:51 AM
I think it's just a knarly, armed and twisted beech of some kind myself. Look out, it don't bite ya. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Bchnt.jpg)
Ok, I'll behave now. ;D
Photo sort of looks like the Ozark-chinquapin,[castanea pumila var. ozarkensis], a close kin would be the Allegheny or downy Chinquapin. These have the spiny burs.
At one time had donated to the cause of bringing back and propagating O-c. I have two saplings, drought killed them back but they both came back strong last year. Think a skidder got one of them this past fall. :-\
Canker supposedly killed off the trees and only remnants of regrowth from stumps remain. Some growers have had some luck.
But I have a very few Chinkapin Oak I've found and trying to save a couple of mature trees and a few saplings.
I know this is an old post, but thought I'd revive it by responding. I agree with chain on this being an Ozark Chinquapin. I bark, leaves and even the location is a tell tale sign of Castanea Ozarkensis.
I'm a part of the Foundation, and I also have some growing in northeast Texas. I also have a very old chinkapin oak on our place, and there's definitely a noticeable difference in the leaves.
This was once an important tree to the people and definitely the wildlife in the Ozarks, and northeast Texas, northern Louisiana, and northern Alabama and mature trees once reached up to 60 feet, and dropped lots and lots of small sweet nuts that was more attractive to wildlife than any other nut in the forest.
If you ever come across any others report them the the Ozark Chinquapin Foundation, as they're breeding blight resistant trees to restore them to their former glory. They even send seed to new members. Check out the site... Ozark Chinquapin Foundation (https://ozarkchinquapinmembership.org/have-you-found-an-ozark-chinquapin/)
I am glad this was bumped back. It is an interesting read. I remember as a kid in the 60's eating chinkapins from what I recall was a small tree. This was in SW Va. in the mountain areas. Have not seen any in years. Sure did like the taste of those small nuts.
I have one ridge trail that rides the ridge mostly and used to be common for us to see sapling or brushy American Chestnuts come up and die back. I have a leaf in one of my tree books off them. Not seen any in more recent years-we bought this land in 1978 so some times gone by here bouts... :D
I've never seen a wild Chinkapin in KY?