Here are some diagrams for safe felling.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/around_the_back%7E0.jpg)
AROUND THE BACK CUT
Use for trees where bar length is insufficient for tree diameter.
Bore in on bad side and prepare hinge. Cut around the back and insert wedge. Continue the cut and finish on good side.
If we are looking down on the stump, no quarrel with the technique but am wondering why the saw is upside down? Cutting on the top of the bar pushing the saw out of the cut. ?? Just curious.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/bore_cut_small%7E0.jpg)
BORE CUT for SMALL LEANER
Bore in on the bad side. Make sure saw passes through the other side of the tree. Be careful not to cut into hinge space on the opposite side. Open the cut and prepare hinge. Prepare holding strap. Cut strap for release. Cut strap about 1 inch below bore cut from the back.
I was wondering the same thing, beenthere.
Sorry about the pic of the saw. It was in my computer and I used it to make the pics. It's just to illustrate where the saw goes. Being a faller you know in what position the saw is. Sorry about the bad pic. ;D
I didn't have a pic of the other side of the saw! :D
And for the small leaner, I use the bore cut a lot, but I usually set a wedge or two in the back cut before knocking off the holding wood. Just in case the lean isn't figured just right and the wedges save you from being caught real tight, real quick if it sets back at all.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/bore_cut_large%7E0.jpg)
BORE CUT for BIG HEAVY LEANER
Bore in and cut out to the back on the bad side. Bore in on the opposite side and prepare the strap. Cut strap for release.
beenthere, yeah, I do the same too. It's a good safety precaution. Sorry I didn't add it here into the diagram. Good point.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/overlap_cut%7E0.jpg)
OVERLAP CUT
Do a back cut covering 60% of the back of the tree. Insert wedge. Repeat same cut on safe side overlapping previous cut (bottom). Insert wedge. Drive in wedges to fell. Use for small straight trees where lean is hard to determine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/swing_cut%7E0.jpg)
SWING CUT
Bore in on the safe side and prepare hinge. This is a good technique where the bad side is really unsafe on a leaner or where insufficient work space makes it hard to get to the other side of the tree. Once the bore is completed and the the hinge is in place, pull the saw back on the dogs to prepare a holding strap. Cut strap for release. A wedge can be added on the opposite side of the strap, but make sure the bar will pass the wedge safely.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/tongue_and_groove%7E0.jpg)
TONGUE & GROOVE
Shallow scarf. Bore into the front of the scarf to the back. Make sufficient room for the wedge to pass through without cutting away too much wood where hinges will be made. Insert wedge and drive in. Cut on sides above bore cut to prepare proper stump shot. Drive in wedge to fell. Use for small trees with slight back lean.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/quarter_cut%7E0.jpg)
QUARTER CUT
Bore in on bad side and cut around the back, making sufficient wedge space. Insert wedge. Complete hinge by cutting below the wedge as not to hit it. Drive in wedge and fell. Use for small trees with slight back lean.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/danish_pie_cut%7E0.jpg)
DANISH PIE CUT
Bore in on bad side and prepare hinge. Cut away back to prepare space for wedge. Insert wedge and cut remaining holding wood from underneath. Drive in wedge and fell. Useful for trees with slight back lean.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/wedges.jpg)
WEDGES
A faller's best friends. Inserting wedge to the side will improve lift. Use wedge with tapered scarf for side leaners or adding lift to a swing cut.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/T_cut%7E0.jpg)
T-CUT
On large leaners, the saw is put at the side of the tree and pulled back on the dogs. On smaller tree the cut can be performed the same as with the cuts made on a tongue & groove cut. Cut back strap (in the shape of a bar) to fell.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/side_bind.jpg)
SIDE BIND
When a felled tree is lodged between standing trees, side bind is present. This technique deals with safely releasing the bind so that the felled tree opens up safely.
P: position
C: compression
T: tension
Stand on the compression side and make two "V" cuts that meet. Cut over the top drawing the saw to where you are. Tension will gradually be released as the logs slowly open. The yellow arrow on the bottom pic shows the path of the saw. It is advised NOT to stand directy behind the saw, but at the left of the saw.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/rootplate.jpg)
RELEASING ROOTPLATE
P: position
T: tension
C: compression
Cut over the top and draw saw into wood about one fourth of the way. Bore in from the side but DO NOT cut the top yet. Cut downward and let the saw exit the bottom, leaving a small holding strap. This small strap in not cut, but functions as a "jump stopper" to help the log release from the stump slowly. The final cut is from above to release, made slightly off to the right to create a shoulder. The shoulder protects the bar from getting knocked up as the log opens.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/centre_scarf%7E0.jpg)
CENTRE SCARF
Large trees can be scarfed in this manner to reduce holding wood. Make sure to add wood to hinges in order to compensate for hingewood lost due to scarfing. Back cut is made standard above scarfing to create stump shot. Good for cutting trees where the bar length is insufficient. The back cut is made by cutting around the back. Bore in and move the saw around to the other side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/defect%7E0.jpg)
DEFECT TREE
A tree with a defect like rot in the middle needs to be felled carefully. Scarf a but deeper than usual. Cut around the back from bad side. Make sure hinge is prepare in sound wood. Cut away rot to expose sound wood so that hinge can be made accurately. If tree seems unsound, bind up the tree with rope prior to cutting. The rope will help to hold the tree together during the fall. Where the tree has no crown, reduce stump shot.
Very nice. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/tapered_h_defect%7E1.jpg)
DEFECT TREE with TAPERED HINGE & STRAP (SIDE LEANER)
Prepare a tapered hinge in sound wood. Bore in on both sides to prepare hinge. Cut back to prepare strap. The grey arrow shows the direction of lean. Cut strap to release.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/wing_cuts.jpg)
WING CUTS
Add wing cuts to the hinge to reduce root pull on softwood trees. Not recommended for hardwoods. Useful where scarf doesn't properly cover the face of the tree.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/enl_scarf_2.jpg)
ENLARGING SCARF
Where bar length is insufficient, a large tree can be scarfed in two steps.
I would like to thank you for taking the time to develop and post these diagrams. Never hurts to learn something.
The diagrams are great! What would be even more helpful is to include why you might use one over the other. Thank you John.
I put these diagrams on the forum hoping that they would be helpful in promoting safe workmanship. There's a couple more I will add with some explanations too.
Looking like a lot of work went in those. With respect to safe workmanship, the diagrams which demonstrate bore cutting are assuming a cutter is ready to do that kind of work. Before you go into that, be sure you understand the implications of cutting with the bar tip regarding the danger of kickback. You feed the bar in from the lower quarter of the bar tip. I'm concerned with what would happen to a saw user that plunges straight in.
Full Chisel, that's a very good point. Bore techniques produces safe felling, but to master the bore cut take practice. Just plunging the saw into the wood results in some serious kickback!
I've found that if the angle isn't right when beginning the bore cut, the tip just bounces out.
No serious kick-back, but some kick-out that doesn't flip the bar or chain towards the operator.
Just what I find anyway....
BORE CUT TECHNIQUE
The attack corner of the bar first enters the wood at full throttle to make a bore cut . As the bar enters, the saw is brought around. Go slow and do not push hard on the saw. The cutters are working hard to clear a lot of wood, so you need to give the saw time. Dull cutters makes this job hell, so make sure you have a sharp chain. (picture to follow...under construction)
On the initial entry I've found that the bar just bounces off, but when the saw is in the wood, there is some unfriendly push back if the bar gets too much wood. Since the bar cannot fly upward as with a standard kickback, the only place for the saw to go is backward. A bit nasty.
In thread #28 I said "kickback". My apologies. I meant "pushback."
I have trouble looking at your great graphics that have the upside down or backward chainsaw shown.
Any way that you can replace that saw?
I think it sends a wrong message to any newbie trying to figure out just what is happening in your diagrams.
I may be the only one, but it hits me like a sharp stick in the eye.
beenthere, anyway I can replace the pics? I could try to remake them, but is there a way I can take out the old ones?
You can add new pics and modify your posts, without too much fanfare.
The last graphic, there appears more to be wrong than just an upside down chainsaw. It is a top handled one as well, which I wouldn't recommend for boring.
And to me, the graphic is backward as one wouldn't hold a saw upside down to begin that plunge/bore cut safely. The sweeping arrow would come in from the other direction (first pointing away from the hinge to begin and then along the hinge as the bore gets deeper). Or just move the vertical line representing the hinge (should be a wider line for a good hinge) over to the right of the vertical arrow representing the bore cut.
They just need some good editing, but I don't want to or mean to take away from your good effort to make up good graphics.
On the other hand, I think a newbie to felling trees would be either real confused or try some things that wouldn't work very well.
Has to be your decision.
Sure thing mate, I'll work on the diagrams to make them more accurate. Thanx for the comments and info.
I modified the pictures where the saw is held horizontal as to avoid confusion, leaving only the bar of the saw to show where it goes. In diagrams where the saw is held vertical I left it as such.
Really good diagrams.I used a cut the other day that I didn't see.Made my notch,then did two wing cuts from the corners of the notch that nearly met up on the backside(oblong shaped trunk),then made my plunge cut through the base of the wings leaving a hinge.Then powered straight back following the wing cuts.Heavy oak leaner went exactly where I wanted it,with no split trunk.I've been eyeballing this tree all summer to come up with this plan.
Thanks for taking the time to post the diagrams, and the tips on bore cutting.
exSW: That's an interesting combo with the bore cut and wing cuts. I really prefer bore cuts above conventional felling methods. I sometimes also add wedges to either side of the bore cut to give a bit of extra lift on trees that don't have that much lean. Someone might say that it is not needed to do bore cuts on trees with little lean, but bore cuts keep the wood in one piece, and there is no chance of the back cut opening up too soon before the hinge is properly prepared. I find that with the bore cuts I can take my time and set up the hinge precisely. Here in Japan, the trees are standing so compact in some areas that precise felling is needed to put them down without creating hung up trees. A well prepared hinge is made possible by using bore cuts.
Piston: Glad I could be of help. Safe felling mate! ;)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/burnt_out%7E0.jpg)
BURNT OUT TREE
This diagram is for felling a tree that has suffered fire damage. It is advised though to take extra precaution with trees like these. The yellow area is the scarf. The red shows the hinge. Try as best to prepare the hinge in sound wood only. Bore in to test the soundness of the wood. Tying it up to avoid crumbling during the fall helps. Cut around the back or bore to make hinges on both sides first.
Quote from: John Vander on October 21, 2013, 07:28:25 PM
exSW: That's an interesting combo with the bore cut and wing cuts. I really prefer bore cuts above conventional felling methods. I sometimes also add wedges to either side of the bore cut to give a bit of extra lift on trees that don't have that much lean. Someone might say that it is not needed to do bore cuts on trees with little lean, but bore cuts keep the wood in one piece, and there is no chance of the back cut opening up too soon before the hinge is properly prepared. I find that with the bore cuts I can take my time and set up the hinge precisely. Here in Japan, the trees are standing so compact in some areas that precise felling is needed to put them down without creating hung up trees. A well prepared hinge is made possible by using bore cuts.
Piston: Glad I could be of help. Safe felling mate! ;)
Part of the problem was 22" tree and 20" bar.The wing cuts made for a through and through plunge cut.The tree was an field border oak leaner.East/West border with the tree leaning and growing towards the southern exposure sun(northern hemisphere).
Sounds like you did your homework before felling that leaner! Yeah, good planning results in good work. I can see how the wing cuts helped to establish the hinge on the opposite side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/bucking_2.jpg)
BUCKING
This diagram shows how to buck logs with top bind and bottom bind.
P: position of faller
T: tension
C: compression
Cut No. 1 is made by reaching over the log and making a vertical cut on the opposite side. The arrows show the direction the saw travels.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/enl_scarf_1.jpg)
ENLARGING SCARF
This is a cutting sequence diagram for enlarging the scarf.
QuoteCut No. 1 is made by reaching over the log and making a vertical cut on the opposite side.
A reason for this cut and the other one on the sides is for ?? Maybe a bar that won't reach through the log?
For compression on top of log, I sometimes bore cut just under the top and drop down. This leaves some wood in compression that acts like a wedge.
But the diagrams don't rule out reading the combination tension points on a log or limb to stay out of trouble. A lot of my bucking cuts are made on logs that are in a pile.
Plus need to take into account where the log lies on the ground or off, so's to keep the bar out of the dirt.
This bucking method is handy where bar length is lacking, but it is also good for where tension and compression levels are very high. Yeah, long trees especially lying in piles contain a variety of bind and it can be difficult to precisely determine them. The idea of this cut is to cut away at the wood so that pressures are gradually released. If the tree was touching the ground, cutting over the top would be unwise as the bar tip would end up in the soil. This is used for top or bottom bind trees suspended above the ground to some degree. We get a lot of typhoons here in Japan that do some real damage to woodlots. Windthrown cedars are like bombs that go off when that pressure is released. I have to work very carefully so I won't get my head ripped off. I use a variety of cutting techniques to remove storm damaged trees. Find many trees where end bind is combined with side bind and torque bind ( aka twisters, where the tree makes a spinning motion when pressure is released, like the turning of a drive shaft).
beenthere, those logs in piles..how did they get there?
I like this post and find the diagrams helpful. Most terms are somewhat intuitive but not sure I understand all of the terms being used completely like the term "strap". Is there an official glossary of felling terms somewhere? Perhaps a sticky with it would be useful? Thanks for all the hard work that went into this.
How about some info on trees with multiple trunks? seems like we have a lot of maple, ash and oak that like to grow with three trunks just above waist height. Felling at the ground would be unpredictable at best and cutting each individually limits options. They can also limit the saw positions as well as the safe position of the sawyer. These are the ones that always have me strategically planning.
The strap is the piece of holding wood that keeps the tree from falling while the faller prepares the hinge. I will work on some double leader diagrams.
BORE CUT DIAGRAM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/bore_cut.jpg)
The red section on the nose of the bar shows the kick back area. The green area is the attack corner of the bar that enters the wood first before the saw is brought parallel with the scarf.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/d_leader%7E0.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/d_leader_2%7E0.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/d_leader_3.jpg)
These are standard felling procedures for double leaders. In the first pic, the leaders are pretty low and are felled so they will fall away from each other. In the second pic, the scarf (left) is first prepared. Then the crotch is ripped by cutting down (no.1). A bore cut is done (no.2) that serves as a back cut. Once this leader is down, the remaining leader is felled standard. In the third pic, the weight of the leaders are in the same direction. The scarf is first set in place (left), followed by a downward cut to rip the crotch (no.1). The second cut, (bore cut) is a back cut to fell the first leader. A new scarf is then set in place where the crotch was ripped, followed by a standard back cut.
Wonderful contribution!!! Thank you for taking the time to post these, most helpful for anyone looking for advice on felling technique's.
You're welcome my friend. I'll add stuff as I get it done.
John, again thinks for taking the time to do these. I had to do a double leader the other day and had not seen these yet. Never thought about the vertical cut. Went high and cut only thing I did not like was that I was cutting at eye level. Have another when I get in that area. Only thing it is a hickory with a major split in the area where the trunks come together.
Sort of figure when I make my face cut it may try and come down. Would like to salvage the logs. Am going to study on it before attempting. Would like the logs but may not attempt. My head, while ugly, looks pretty good where it is.
luvmexfood: I'm glad you could benefit from these diagrams. That hickory with the split: at what angle is the leader hanging? Is the crotch below DBH?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/storm_leaner%7E0.jpg)
STORM DAMAGED HEAVY LEANER
This is a situation where the tree didn't come down all the way, but is leaning heavily. Bind up the leaner above the back cut area. Prepare a twin scarf, making sure that the scarfs meet correctly in the direction of the planned fell. Cut from the back SLOWLY and watch for movement. In softwood straight bole trees this works well, but in the case of hardwoods with trunks that carry a lot of weight in side branches special care should be taken. Heavy limbs could twist the tree and spin it around if the weight carried by the limbs does not face the same way the tree is leaning. Best to pull it down with heavy machinery. Use this method only where there is no access for machinery.
Very nice diagrams, thanks for posting. Some of the felling books are in B&W and are not as easy to fallow, as these color coded diagrams.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/fallen_leaner.jpg)
Fallen Tree on Slope
This is a sticky one. Major end bind is present on this tree. If the tree's roots are loose (no longer in the ground), the tree might slide down the slope if cut at the bole. If supporting bottom branches are cut, the tree might spin over. First remove the top limbs. Although they do not have as much bind in them as the bottom ones, they still can trap a saw quickly. Use the limb-lock method to take down the top branches first. Cut gingerly on the compression side of the limb, watching carefully since the cut will close real fast. DON'T cut too deep. Cut then from the tension side, bypassing the first cut to sever all fibers. Use the bottom branches of the tree to support the bole while cutting the top branches. This is for a medium sized tree. Large trees that hang off sloped way above DBH should rather be pulled down with a dozer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/heavy2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/_heavy2_bmp.jpg)
HEAVY LEANER HANGING
If the stump is cut without caution, this thing will fly up and take your head off. It's maximum top bind. Make a V-cut on the opposite side to get rid of some wood. Bore in and clear out the inside but be careful not to remove too much wood! Make sure the bore is in line with the V-cut. The bottom area "b" is not cut, but will help as a brake to slow down the opening of the cut. The weight of the tree needs to come to the ground first for safety sake. Use a shoulder cut bypassing the bore cut to sever all fibers. The shoulder will protect the saw as the root plate flies up.
I never knew there were so many ways to fell a tree. It's a nice compilation of techniques. Thanks for this thread!!
Thanks John,
It might be useful for a few of us to post some pictures of challenging trees and videos of real trees being felled which can be used as examples of the various cuts, tehcniques etc. and then they can be critiqued by the FF community. I always find a picture worth a thousand words and a video worth a million.
Great stuff John. I think it would be a nice addition to demonstrate/illustrate felling trees where high valued structures or growing stock are in the direction of the natural fall, such as side falling head leaners, or backfalling back leaners. These situations come up frequently in the forest, and many people would benefit from learning the special methods needed to deal with them, including the use of wedges, winches, comealongs etc.
If you want to see some good how-to videos, just search for "James the narcoleptic tree cutter" on YouTube.
I've seen those. Can't believe the guy is still alive.
Quote from: John Mc on November 07, 2013, 02:06:33 PM
If you want to see some good how-to videos, just search for "James the narcoleptic tree cutter" on YouTube.
I just left YouTube, and my opinion regarding the worst climbers I have ever seen has been altered by the antics of James.
Wow. There are a lot of adjectives that I could think of to replace "narcoleptic" and still make a very accurate title also. :D
That guy (fool) needs a saw with out a chain. The world would be a safer place. There is no good reason in the world to do that type of tree work. huh-smiley
Quote from: LaegersATC500R on November 09, 2013, 12:33:26 AM
That guy (fool) needs a saw with out a chain. The world would be a safer place. There is no good reason in the world to do that type of tree work. huh-smiley
Well, that was kind of the whole point of the video...
No safety gear and drunk is no way to operate a saw, even on the ground, let alone when climbing. He also seems to have no idea what he's doing, which is bad enough in itself.
Quote from: John Vander on November 06, 2013, 06:51:36 PM
luvmexfood: I'm glad you could benefit from these diagrams. That hickory with the split: at what angle is the leader hanging? Is the crotch below DBH?
Hohn Ive got to get back up their and look at it again. Best I remember split starts about 2 ft off ground and was probably 4 or 5 inches where the tree started forking which is around 4 feet u. Rest of each log is solid.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/buttress.jpg)
BUTTRESS ROOTS
Make sure to cut buttress roots that will pull the tree off the desired falling direction! This also makes proper scarfing possible.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/comp_hinge.jpg)
Compromised Hinge
It is essential to make the back cut parallel to the scarf. If not, the the hinge will be of uneven strength across. The hinge might break loose on the weak side resulting in the faller losing control of the direction of the fall.
I don't want to sidetrack this great thread but I stumbled on the "James" youtube last night. Takes a lot of guts to even make spoof video's like that but I believe that is what they were. I do know for certain that some of the other tree felling mistakes by home owners and amateurs are spoofs, a friend and his in-laws are the ones responsible for several.
They make various fail tapes in the process of doing jobs safely while moving cameras around a bit and repositioning things after the fact. They have fun doing it and don't mind people laughing at their expense, that is why the tapes are made. I guess fifteen minutes of fame, also making their own fun.
Obviously some fail video's are real, got to take some with a pinch of salt though. I can't believe anyone would have "James" on their place five minutes, much less give him three tries!
Hu
Thehardway: I don't own a camera :D but I can try to take some photos.
mesquite buckeye: I'll try to get some diagrams done for felling trees near structures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/stag.jpg)
Felling a STAG
Stags are dead trees that have no top weight since there is no crown. Make the scarf deeper than usual (a) and set the back cut lower but NEVER at the same height as the scarf. Put a safety line (rope attached to the top of the tree to assist felling) in place.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/fish_cut.jpg)
FISH CUT
Use this to avoid splitting on softwood trees. Works well when used with wing cuts. Bore into the apex of an open face cut about 6 inches.
luvmexfood: Sounds like a deep split. Use an open face scarf to avoid any pressure on the split during the fall. Make sure the hinge is not too thick also, as this will cause the split to rip. Boring is best, setting the hinge securely in place before release. Conventional back cut will fail since the tree will start falling before the hinge is fully prepared, resulting in that split being pulled open by a too thick hinge. Make sure you bore in at a place where there is enough space for the bar to pass without prematurely releasing the tree. If back cut (for release cut) space is insufficient, you can bore in and cut the strap from the inside by cutting out the back. Not a wonderful method but in cases like these it is unavoidable.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/leaner_release.jpg)
Releasing a HEAVY LEANER
Some folks cut the strap from the top, but there is a chance that the bar might get caught in the step at the back (see yellow arrow "A"). The cut opens safely if cut from below (B).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/wedge_bucking.jpg)
Bucking with Wedge
A wedge inserted on the compression side is very useful to keep the cut open when bucking big logs.
John,
Just a big thanks for this thread! I had a pretty good feel for felling and working with trees once they were on the ground but there was a close to fifteen year gap before picking up a saw again lately. I have read over this thread several times and will continue to do so. Great reminders of some of the things I knew, exposing me to a lot of new things too.
I deal with a lot of storm damage sometimes. Strikes me that some of the ten thousand pound load straps for trucking cargo might add a safety factor when felling some of the split stuff. No change of techniques you are showing, just a little extra insurance against surprises by binding the split area together above the cuts. Never tried it so I don't know.
Hu
John
Quote
Felling a STAG
Stags are dead trees that have no top weight since there is no crown.
I learned the term for this to be a SNAG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snag_(ecology)
Britishspeak. The Aussies also use scarf and stag for face cut and snag.
Yes, Americans call it a snag, but I'm not American. :-X
shootingarts: nothing like extra insurance!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/pistol_grip.jpg)
PISTOL GRIP TREE
The difficulty with this tree is that the weight of the bole and the crown face two opposite directions. If the curve in the trunk is below DBH, it can be felled like a normal leaner, but if the curve is above DBH, like 5 feet, it's a different story. Many guys think the crown weight will pull the tree over, but find that the tree stalls during the fall. Place a scarf parallel to the lean, using a tapered hinge to control the fall better, but make sure to have a safety line in place. A wedge can be used too, but pulling the tree over is much safer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/spring_pole.jpg)
SPRING POLE Storm Damage
Apart from the twin scarf method, this can also be used. Works for slender long pole-like trees that got messed up with snow or wind damage. The tension in these trees are extremely high, and it will release like a arrow from a bow if proper care is not taken. The bind needs to be released first. Make a small v scarf (1) in the same direction as the lean, but cut gingerly and slowly, checking continuously for any movement. Enlarge the scarf gradually from top and bottom (2-4). Keep checking the tree, and once sufficient bind has been released, make a back cut (5) and fell. Note that the scarf will gradually close up after each cut due to the bind. In the diagram, the scarf looks pretty large, but in reality it will look smaller as it closes. When it stops closing, or slows down, it means that the bind is released. The cutting method in reply no. 55 can be used for this situation too.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/bottom_bind.jpg)
HEAVY BOTTOM BIND
This situation is bottom bind at it's best. Even when cutting from below, some guys get their chainsaws slammed into the ground before they get through the log due to the speed with which it comes down. The saw can't get through the wood fast enough. By removing some of the wood, there is less that the saw needs to get through before the stump hits the ground. Make a V-cut (1), followed by side cuts (2) to remove wood. Cut from below (3) to finish. The side cuts can be made by cutting from below as well. Works very much similar to the cutting method in reply no.43.
Quote from: John Vander on November 12, 2013, 08:13:50 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/bottom_bind.jpg)
HEAVY BOTTOM BIND
This situation is bottom bind at it's best. Even when cutting from below, some guys get their chainsaws slammed into the ground before they get through the log due to the speed with which it comes down. The saw can't get through the wood fast enough. By removing some of the wood, there is less that the saw needs to get through before the stump hits the ground. Make a V-cut (1), followed by side cuts (2) to remove wood. Cut from below (3) to finish. The side cuts can be made by cutting from below as well. Works very much similar to the cutting method in reply no.43.
Given this problem, I would plunge cut to leave a hinge below the V-cut shown in yellow, about in the light blue top bar shown. With a good hinge (top purple bar) to keep it falling straight down and not on me.
It will drop fast when coming down through from the plunge cut so may pull out and finish the cut from the bottom. Similar to a leaning tree to keep it from splitting up the trunk both ways.
Quote from: John Vander on November 12, 2013, 07:16:43 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/pistol_grip.jpg)
PISTOL GRIP TREE
The difficulty with this tree is that the weight of the bole and the crown face two opposite directions. If the curve in the trunk is below DBH, it can be felled like a normal leaner, but if the curve is above DBH, like 5 feet, it's a different story. Many guys think the crown weight will pull the tree over, but find that the tree stalls during the fall. Place a scarf parallel to the lean, using a tapered hinge to control the fall better, but make sure to have a safety line in place. A wedge can be used too, but pulling the tree over is much safer.
John, I think a pull line should not be confused with a "safety line" in this application. With this heavy side lean only a 90° to lay guy line can be called a safety line.
My self doing residential tree removal for a living I apply many 90° to lay guy lines tensioned on heavy side liners . Tapered hinges are not always a reliable application in most tree species, only exception is DED [Dutch Elm Disease] killed American elms, but even then its strength is limited depending on size of side lean.
beenthere: That's a good technique, thanks.
Holmen Tree: Thank you very much. I'll take that to the bank. (As I always do with the advice you give me.)
Quote from: John Vander on November 12, 2013, 08:35:04 PM
beenthere: That's a good technique, thanks.
Holmen Tree: Thank you very much. I'll take that to the bank. (As I always do with the advice you give me.)
Your welcome John, I was only trying to add a bit of extra info to your thread with your excellent diagrams.
Any advice from a pro is always received well. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/stump_shot%7E1.jpg)
Stump Shot is the height of the hinge. For heavy leaners, increase the height of the stump shot to slow the fall. Do not use a thicker hinge as this will cause the tree to split.
Which direction is it leaning?
If to the side of the notch, then depending on how much lean, I would seriously consider bore cutting to form the notch before back cutting. The danger even with the high backcut is still splitting up the center and getting a barberchair.
I'm curious John. Where is the "expertise" coming from behind the diagrams? Many good graphics, but sometimes question if there is much experience actually felling trees using these graphics or not. Would be interested in hearing from you. No offense meant.
I have been felling trees now for 5 years, learned from many mistakes, received training from several professionals and I'm a licensed faller. I do not regard myself as an expert, but there are so many accidents related to felling that I decided to post some diagrams that might help. Sorry about the diagram. I realized my mistake in drawing it. I fixed it. Thanks for mentioning it. The lean of the tree is in the same direction as the scarf.
Quote from: beenthere on November 20, 2013, 08:02:49 PM
I'm curious John. Where is the "expertise" coming from behind the diagrams? Many good graphics, but sometimes question if there is much experience actually felling trees using these graphics or not. Would be interested in hearing from you. No offense meant.
Even if there are some techniques I might not chose to use, I think this thread is a great one for provoking more thought about how to approach a situation. It also fosters good discussion of the techniques presented.
Quote from: John Mc on November 21, 2013, 06:30:54 PM
Even if there are some techniques I might not chose to use, I think this thread is a great one for provoking more thought about how to approach a situation. It also fosters good discussion of the techniques presented.
I second that, John is doing a good job with his diagrams and good discussion comes out of it. It's nice to see so many different applications on felling and bucking a tree in such a clear concise visual.
A wealth of information.
Quote from: John Vander on November 20, 2013, 08:16:26 PM
I have been felling trees now for 5 years, learned from many mistakes, received training from several professionals and I'm a licensed faller. I do not regard myself as an expert, but there are so many accidents related to felling that I decided to post some diagrams that might help. Sorry about the diagram. I realized my mistake in drawing it. I fixed it. Thanks for mentioning it. The lean of the tree is in the same direction as the scarf.
As you illustrate, a man can learn a lot in five years if he is focused on trying to learn and do things the best way he can. I have worked with a lot of people with 20-30 years in doing one thing. Some were very expert, some were very practiced at doing the same things they were doing with three to six months experience!
At some point a person should be able to look at an individual felling problem and know how to deal with it. The more ways they know to consider the more likely they are to come up with the best and safest way to fell that particular tree although it may be something they have never seen before.
Hu
I'm convinced that for most jobs, a lot of what it takes to do the job well is a desire to learn, and to care enough to do it right. Yes, experience is important, but true experience is more than just the total of your hours doing the job.
I used to work with a guy (not in logging/forestry) who used to be fond of saying "someday when you've had 20 years of experience in the industry, you'll understand this. For now, just take my word for it." In truth, he was basically a dinosaur in his work knowledge and in his approach to dealing with people.
Someone finally shut him up by saying "You know, there's a difference between 20 years of experience, and one year of experience 20 times."
Please exscuse my ignorance, but when you say the "bad" side of the tree in your early posts, what do you mean?
Quote from: redfin on November 24, 2013, 08:44:46 PM
Please exscuse my ignorance, but when you say the "bad" side of the tree in your early posts, what do you mean?
Sometimes when you are cutting a tree one side may have obstructions that stop you getting away from the stump as it falls. A fence, a cliff, other trees etc. That's a "bad" place to be as the tree starts to fall. So you make any cuts needed from that side first, then go around to the 'good" side where you make the final cuts and make your escape cleanly.
Ian
A widow-maker hanging on one side of the tree can make that the "bad" side also. Nothing like a dead branch coming down on you to ruin your whole day.
In the industry what John meant was the "bad side" is usually side lean over top of the tree faller and as John Mc said about a widow maker.
Whatever the actual hazard, it's the side you don't want to be standing as the tree starts to fall. ;)
Quote from: Ianab on November 25, 2013, 01:02:22 AM
Whatever the actual hazard, it's the side you don't want to be standing as the tree starts to fall. ;)
Your right Ian, from experience I can see "without even thinking" how the butt of the tree reacts before the tree even hits the ground. ;D
Thank you gentlemen for all the replies. The words were truly encouraging and I'll continue with my research. I put quite a few hours a week into this, trying to find safer and more effective methods. Where you find dangerous practices in my diagrams, feel free to mention it. Where methods have been improved, or new ones invented, I'd love to hear from you. Here in Japan the average faller has little training and they do really dangerous stuff. In the future, I would like to produce a booklet of sorts in Japanese that would encourage safer techniques. Maybe the Forestry Forum can also publish a booklet or manual in the future for the purpose of promoting safer working methods.
Quote from: John Vander on November 25, 2013, 06:19:22 PM
Thank you gentlemen for all the replies. The words were truly encouraging and I'll continue with my research. I put quite a few hours a week into this, trying to find safer and more effective methods. Where you find dangerous practices in my diagrams, feel free to mention it. Where methods have been improved, or new ones invented, I'd love to hear from you. Here in Japan the average faller has little training and they do really dangerous stuff. In the future, I would like to produce a booklet of sorts in Japanese that would encourage safer techniques. Maybe the Forestry Forum can also publish a booklet or manual in the future for the purpose of promoting safer working methods.
John,
I think there would be a real demand pretty much worldwide for a real basic little hip pocket manual that was sturdily made and resistant to weather and sweat. Not a tome, maybe twenty to thirty diagrams, perhaps a larger book to accompany it that explained each figure in the "working book" in more detail. Might expand slightly on the smaller book in a second section of the larger book but I think twenty diagrams or less properly applied would cover over 95% of situations. Anything not covered by those diagrams is probably best answered by walk away or start climbing. Any book should probably start off by first and foremost emphasizing to walk away if not sure the results of the approach you are trying are safe.
The amateurs all over the world do some amazingly stupid things usually out of pure ignorance. That definitely includes me. When I first started using pull chains I figured more pressure was better. I had a big enough John Deere to pull down many twenty inch or larger trees and the first time or two pulling I put a major bow in the trees before starting the cut from the back of the tree working alone. I soon learned just the weight of the chain was enough. Had I been standing behind those first couple while cutting . . . Mostly we learn the hard way, some learn offhandedly or worse! A commonly accepted handbook carried at most dealers would be a wonderful thing. Machinists, pipefitters, many trades I suspect, have a little pocket "bible" they generally keep with them for reference. Perhaps fellers already have one but not that I know of.
Hu
With the tech these days in printing, an all weather pocket sized book will be cool. I found a notebook the other day at a stationary shop that fascinated me: The paper felt like plastic and is hard to tear. The shop keeper told me that there is a stone-like powder mixed into the paper. It was a bit heavy though, but the shop keeper convinced of the quality when she put a bucket filled with water on the counter, handed me a pen and said, "try it". Was a first for me to write under water, but it worked well. A durable pocket manual including a log weight chart and ratios on a variety of rigging methods would be useful.
Called Rite-in-the-Rain all-weather paper. Seen in this link...
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/search.asp?vend=115000
beenthere, thanx for the link. I'll check it out.
Thanks for this info. Been a huge help. I appreciate you taking all the time to make these images.
John,
I fell the worst tree in my limited experience, a 26" 150'+ Western Hemlock that leaned 10-15 deg. I have always used a safety chain and plunge cut behind the hinge and cut backwards. Even so I usually the trunk splitting and have to firewood out my now bound up chain.
I used your method for cutting big heavy leaners. It went so much better, no split and the safety chain was easy to remove. Thanks!!!
Quote from: beenthere
Called Rite-in-the-Rain all-weather paper.
fleet farm carries them and the pens in the dairy area
DMcCoy, I'm glad to hear it worked out well. I had a crappy experience yesterday. I'm doing some silvics for and old guy on his small woodlot. (I get the cut trees for firewood.) Turns out that (situated in a small valley next to a small stream) the area was an old rice field. Since we have a lot of rain here, the place was a mess with all the mud. I was covered in mud when I got home. No machine can get in there due to the depth of the mud. The trees (cedars) were planted so close to each other (which is a common problem in Japan) that felling space was quite a challenge. I aimed it well and it fell but due to lack of space it got caught on the branches of a nearby tree. ( Cedars usually fall through the branches of other cedars easily.) Due to the mud I had so little space to move. With axe and saw I battled and finally got it loose. Japanese cedars don't have strong side-branches, but the tree itself has incredible flexibility. Top branches intertwine with the branches of another tree when it gets hung up. So, even if you pull with a rope, the tree just bends with the pull but doesn't come loose. I was tired from having to go up and down slopes and mud. I got the tree down, packed my gear and went home. I'll cut it up some other time. :D
John, good to hear from you again.
I've had days like that and there's nothing tougher then doing tree removal on slopes with mud thrown in. We call our wet areas muskeg which is bottom less, throw some clay soil in and you have a real"soup".
I carry enough bull rope in my truck tied together to cover a thousand feet if needed. My truck or rope puller come along does the pulling.
But I'm looking into getting one of these Honda powered units
www.portablewinch.com
Thank you for the reply Holmentree! That winch is exelent! So many places I work is inaccessable to vechiles. Holmentree, I need some advice: As for the mud...I was thinking on taking some of the cut branches from the cedar I felled and laying it over the mud. Will that help? I have also been thinking on pulling some of those trees with my minivan. (My little 4x4 minivan can sometimes get close enough to some trees.) I'm just wondering...I've hardly ever pulled over trees with a vehicle. My worry is that I might get my little car pulled along when the tree comes down :o. How does one do it safely?
John I wished my last computer didn't crash because I had lots of good rope redirect pics on it.
Yes branches may make a bed.
Here's a pic of a pull rope on a redirect pulley I used pulled with my truck up the hill .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20151104_133335.jpg)
Great book...maybe out of print now, but found online easily I suspect: Douglas Dent/Professional Timber Falling; A Procedural Approach(that's by memory, hope it's correct). This book is the Bible when it comes to tree fallin'. You may think that because this book was written a long time ago, it would be outdated...you would be wrong and wise to read it. A lot of new ideas here are just old ideas being recirculated.
Dent died just a few yrs ago...Bailey's carried the book forever. That book and the mentor that taught me, probably saved my life a dozen or more times in large scale timber.
Kevin
Dent's web site is still operational, and his book is still available from Bailey's. There's also a DVD series available, but it is expensive. :-\
Working in soft mud is just no fun at all.
An old timer told me they used what he called a 'luft' when using under-powered equipment for the job at hand.
I cannot find a good reference on line, but I use it as needed, even use a double luft to pull trees over where I want the stump out.
Using a couple of snatch blocks and multiple lines or creative stump wrapping and a single line it will give you 2x the pull, or 4 x the pull with a double luft.
edit Still not finding anything that shows what I do. Basically a double line pull with a second snatch block connected to the line you would pull on giving you 4x the power. Limits are line length, strength of lines-blocks-anchors, # of snatch blocks available. each addition snatch block gives an extra 2 x (2x,4x,8x, 16x) Gets a little scary at 8x - great way to find the weakest cable or that you pull your anchor out. Don't ask how I know this.
DMcCoy,
This helps explains mechanical advantage and lift.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20151113_093525-1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/20151114_054022.jpg)
H,
Block and tackle, I have used those before and yes give addition mechanical advantage for certain.
What I do is a bit different, using individual snatch blocks,
The 'Luft' doubles pulling power with each additional snatch block. The most severe stress is on the line and blocks attached to the object to be moved, and I use my heaviest stuff there working toward lighter tackle on what ever it is I am pulling with. I have found 8x pulling power to be a game changer(!!!) if the lines can take it without breaking. It's a lot of setting up so I only do that when I have no easier option, but it does work!
The biggest disadvantage are the distances you either need to travel or can't travel while pulling, because of the method being used. This can be a big downside at times. The stump anchor point doubles as a cable length adjuster - very handy.
John I am glad I found this post this morning, It has some very worth while information all through it, from you as well as from some of the others on here. I will use some of your diagrams in the future. Banjo
Nice to see this info....Tag to follow...
Quote from: Ozarker on November 12, 2015, 08:09:29 AM
Dent's web site is still operational, and his book is still available from Bailey's. There's also a DVD series available, but it is expensive. :-\
Yeah the DVD is expensive , but on a show full of fallers it would more than pay for itself. I think the cost of the original movies was over $300
ea....so really the DVD with them all is a deal these days. If I wasn't almost semi-retired, I'd spring for the DVD just to have it. Cost of a good used saw....
Kevin
Thank you gents. I need to work on my rigging skills a lot more. Due to inaccessability to so many of the places I work, I have to carry my rigging gear on my back. Being heavy, and working on steep slopes (usually 30deg.plus) I can carry only so much. I'll post a pic soon of my rigging rack that fits on my back. (Maybe I posted a pic some time ago...don't remember :).
Holmentree, can you give me some more info on the diagram you sent me? (Thank you very much. This is really helpful.) The knots used at the top is a prusik knot? Bottom one not shown. I want to put something like this together. I have a small hand winch that pulls one ton, but it can pull only 2meters of cable length.
Quote from: John Vander on November 16, 2015, 07:36:28 PM
Holmentree, can you give me some more info on the diagram you sent me? (Thank you very much. This is really helpful.) The knot used at the top is a prusik knot? Bottom one not shown. I want to put something like this together. I have a small hand winch that pulls one ton, but it can pull only 2meters of cable length.
sorry, pressed the wrong button and quoted myself ::)
Quote from: HolmenTree on November 13, 2015, 10:44:46 AM
This helps explains mechanical advantage and lift.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20151113_093525-1.jpg)
John, I own this 5 to 1 setup and I only used it once.
Petzl pulley blocks and a few carabiner and 2 prussics set me back close to $400.
The top hitch is called a Valdotain Tresse Knot (VT)
Bottom one is a 2 wrap Prusik Knot.
I never used it again because of the work of setting it up and sorting out the rope.
This is what I use the most, I can feed any length of rope through it. And only about $40.
http://www.maasdam.com/rope-pullers.html
400 bucks is a lot of cash. In fact, I own a pulley very similar to to the one from maasdam. Only difference is that it has cable on it. It fits snug onto my back-rack. Only problem is that the cable length is only 3 meters, and it pulls only one ton. I double up the pull power with a snatch block similar to the diagram that DMcCoy posted.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/DVC00022.JPG)
This is my back-rack.
That's a great picture John. Nice setup you have there....are those wet sock shoes chainsaw compliant? ;D Just kidding.
Get rid of that Maasdam cable puller and get the Maasdam rope puller like I showed earlier. You won't be sorry.
http://youtu.be/GZ2b8LPeoYk
Quote from: HolmenTree on November 18, 2015, 09:14:31 PM
Get rid of that Maasdam cable puller and get the Maasdam rope puller like I showed earlier. You won't be sorry.
Especially since he's already carrying a rope anyway. With the rope puller, your pull distance is only limited by the length of your rope.
The rope puller seems to be a better bet than the cable one. you can pull as far as the rope goes. I get stuck with the cable since it is sold in short lengths only, as well as it weighs a lot more than rope, making it miserable to carry up and down those slopes!
Holmentree, as far as the shoes go, they are traditional Japanese forester boots. These days they are steel tipped and spiked as well. They were invented by the Japanese ages ago for effective footing in mountainous areas. I use standard western style boots as well. I have a set of waterproof chainsaw boots (that comes up to the knee) for when working in muddy areas.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30301/safe-spike-shoe02.jpg)
The boots look something like this. I know it looks kinda ninja :D, but they work well! It takes a bit getting used to the split-toe feeling, but your feet don't slide around in the boot when working on heavy slopes.
Very unique, thanks for sharing John.
Thanks!