How do some of you guys survey a property to get your boundaries before you log it? I know its a stupid question but I keep feeling like I am doing something wrong and it takes me way to long... thanks
br389
Briefly To do it right takes time.
I will post a detailed explanation tonight as I am off to work shortly.
Thanks
Al
ps it is -35 C Brrrrr!
Your best bet is to have the landowner show you the property boundaries. It is their property and they are responsible for knowing where the lines are. If there is any doubt, flag the line that the landowner says is the boundary and get the adjoining landowners to confirm that they are in agreement. A simple one page letter stating that they agree to the flagged line and then getting them to sign will save your bacon if a problem should come up. It also will flush out any disagreement before you start felling logs. Being proactive will prevent major problems.
Quotebut I keep feeling like I am doing something wrong and it takes me way to long... thanks
br
Tell us how you do it. Then we might be able to suggest how to improve it or how to support what you are already doing. ;)
We might learn something too. ;)
if you can't find any markers, then what WDH said is best. it's my last resort before telling a landowner he needs to survey before we can start.
Like WDH says. It's generally more important that the adjoining landowners agree to the proposed harvest boundary than defining the actual legal boundary. Even surveyed lines can end up in court. Have your timber contract clearly state the seller is responsible for both clear title and marking of the boundary lines. Mark the lines and send the adjoining landowners a notice of your intent to harvest.
In KY prior notification of the neighbors limits your liability in timber trespass to actual stumpage value instead of a multiple should there be a boundary issue afterwards.
Good suggestions on how it should be done. However, in my experience around the farms here, no one tells ya nothing, and timber becomes missing long after they moved out. Meaning it was cut and moved before the trees were missed. Sometimes not a lot, and others acres. And it's quite common to get totally away with it and carry on doing the same. ::)
I always have to bring this up time and time again because it is so darn common around here.
We always have the landowner show us their boundary lines and corners and if they can't we have them get their property surveyed by a registered surveyor and provide us with a certificate of survey. If they don't get a legal survey, we don't harvest their timber until they do.
When I had my cut I did the flagging myself. Takes a while to walk around 150 acres. Than he added more flagging to make sure the rest of the crew knew too. I maintain my lines too.
Me also.
But brings up another issue we have. Is cutting line trees, which is illegal. I haven't seen it ever enforced. Courts don't place much value on the woods. And if the land isn't posted it's not considered trespass up here.
As SD has indicated the property boundaries are generally in very poor condition here. As our younger stands that have been planted or pre-commercially thinned begin to be merchantable, boundary issues are going to be a major issue. I suspect there will be a booming industry for surveyors.
Quote from: br389 on December 10, 2013, 06:37:25 AM
How do some of you guys survey a property to get your boundaries before you log it? I know its a stupid question but I keep feeling like I am doing something wrong and it takes me way to long... thanks
As others have mentioned involve the adjacent landowners. Cure problems before the arise. You may be surprised how much extra work may come from that contact. If you can not find existing markers that indicate a boundary a survey may be needed. I am fortunate that I have property boundaries installed on my gps. Although they are not always completely accurate it is a good base to start with.
Something else to note is that property lines are much simpler if your in an area where land parcels are described via township/range vs metes and bounds. Quite a few tracts around here can pretty much only be settled by agreement or in court. One county I know of had its courthouse and land records burned during the civil war. When your starting point is something like "beginning at a 14" hickory 4 poles NE of bill smiths hog lot and thence running 288 poles SE to a 16" chestnut" ....you get the idea. Expert witness paradise. Then there's the ever popular "old fence" which was strung from tree to tree and often bypassed obstacles out of practicality. Back in court "adverse possession vs legal description". Another fun boundary is "center of the river". The main drainages in west TN were all channelized so you have old riverbed vs the new channel dispute as well as lots of landlocked pieces.
I always do a deed search. I get the metes and bounds of the parcel I'm working on and will sometimes get one for the neighboring properties to see if they agree. That helps to get rid of the "to the stick in the ice" description you have on your deed. Then I map it out to make sure it looks right. I find that landowners aren't necessarily versed on where their property lines are located.
I then find a corner and run a compass and pace to the next corner. I also try to follow obvious lines. You might find a line that's painted or you might find trees with flitch marks or you'll have a difference in timber stands. I flag the line as I go, and 3 ribbon the corners. Its amazing how many times you find a corner that the landowners didn't know existed.
I then inform the landowner that they should go and inspect the lines and make sure they are right, as they are standing behind those lines. I take no responsibility for the correct location of the lines. As a courtesy, I inform the neighboring landowners of the intentions to harvest timber. In my case, normally all timber is marked. I tell them to inspect the lines and to inspect if they think any marked timber is over the line. This allows for them to also take responsibility, but sometimes you get to work on the neighbors property.