A few months ago the motor went down in my cat skid loader broke the oil pump shaft but I have been renting a 262 skid loader from cat for $ 2800 a month that rental is eating up all my profit. I have a good friend of mine that is a mill owner he has a John deere 450c track loader with a winch that he used when he logged and don't use it any more he put new tracks rebuilt the final drives and transmission just before he quit using it was taken good care of. Any ways he told me to take it and use it pay him a load of pine logs a week for it until I get him payed off $8000. I will be using it to load logs with do they do a pretty good job loading logs? Dose this sound like a fair deal. Each load of load of logs is worth about $500 for 2000 feet but he's the only mill around that will even buy pine i can get it for next to nothing most land owners will give it to me
sounds like a heck of a deal to me
Yes it sounds like he is going out of his way to help you out.
When I first started out I had a 350B (still have it actually). WE used it around the mill as that was all we had back then. it worked ok but was painfully slow and tore up the ground badly. You also had to clean the tracks out everyday in the winter or the next morning you were not moving with the frozen mud. Its pretty much just used to level some topsoil around the house anymore.
It sounds like a good deal, but for my $8000 I'd get something else. If all I had to do was put up some pine logs that were useless to me anyhow I might think about it differently though.
Quote from: Bert on December 27, 2013, 03:54:58 PM
When I first started out I had a 350B (still have it actually). WE used it around the mill as that was all we had back then. it worked ok but was painfully slow and tore up the ground badly. You also had to clean the tracks out everyday in the winter or the next morning you were not moving with the frozen mud. Its pretty much just used to level some topsoil around the house anymore.
It sounds like a good deal, but for my $8000 I'd get something else. If all I had to do was put up some pine logs that were useless to me anyhow I might think about it differently though.
I'm inclined to agree with Bert. I spent a few years operating a 450B track loader, and it would not be high only list of priorities. The lift height isn't that great, components are expensive, it does not have much reach, and it tears up the ground. An older backhoe may make a better alternative.
The price is ok if it has a new bottom but if it has been sitting it might have other issues but the financing sounds reasonable enough. It also seems that after you have run a few loads you could return if with a few bucks if it isn't working out and still have saved on the rental. I agree a backhoe with forks might treat you better for similar $.
My Grandad used to have a 450 track loader, it had a backhoe attachment on it. I hated that thing, if I had to use that to make a living I'd find something else to do >:( If it would have had a six way dozer blade on it it would have been worth something, but a front end loader magnifies every fault those things have. You couldn't give me one. Why don't you fix your skid loader or buy a different one if you're paying that much in rent? You have that nice 700 dozer why have things bottled up with a dinosaur like one of those 450's?
I'd rather have a farm tractor with a loader on it rather than one of those things, that's how worthless they are. Perhaps they have 2 saving graces though- they can lift a lot and they can work in extremely muddy conditions.
a c is far better than a b wet steering clutchs in the c . a few things to look for. the side frames break where they bolt to the final drive. usually can be welded. there were 2 styles of front cross beam. the later was bigger and didnt have as much trouble. if its the thinner one with the bushings i have a fix that works. with age the rear one will wear and wear the hole in the track frame
The only thing I ever found that series of loaders to be really good at was pushing silage up into the pit while maintaining a good even slope for the packing tractor. Much else was just too much stress on about every part of the machine. But you could sure push silage with the 450s.
https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif Well, you asked! It doesn't sound like anyone is holding back on with their opinions.
Dad used an old 350 to load logs for several years, but he wasn't cutting full time either. Like barbender was saying, it will pick up a big load for it's size, but it was slow. When I bought my first wheel loader, I could load two loads to his one, and didn't get wore out doing it.
I think you said before that you work a lot of steep ground. The low center of gravity of these loaders may be what you need. But, its what ever you decide. I've read enough of your post to know you can make about anything work. Good luck.
Thanks for the input guys it would be rather slow and tear the ground up pretty bad never thought about that if I can get through the winter with it I'm gonna get a knuckle boom this spring I do have the option to bring it back to him any time if its not worth while to use. I plan on fixing my skid loader but 7k for a new motor Is a little more than I can afford right now during the winter months. The only advantage I see to the track loader is it has a winch and I can use it to skid with or set out for the 700 when not loading but sounds like I will be spending a lot more time loading
I used a 450 Case track loader to load with last winter while helping a buddy out on his job. I am a Deere man, but a track loader is a track loader (I will give case the fact that they have a way better HLR setup than JD). A track loader is slow (but that is relative), they will pick up ANYTHING!, the load height ain't great if it has a bucket, dig a hole to load in. You do have to dig out tracks in winter if it gets really cold at night. They will tear up the ground, but no worse than a rubber tire machine when it's wet. They are versatile, especially with a bucket and a winch!
That being said, I do not run one. The best move I made was going from loading with a FWA farm tractor (much worse than a track loader) to a knuckleboom. Got it cheap. Mounted on the back of a C70 with a 3208 Cat. Not a self loader just a truck mount.
Would you load one log at a time or would you pick up multiple logs to load
cmon guys, it is far better than a tractor or backhoe. it is made to load not pull a plow, and he loading small six wheelers so lift height ain't a big deal. it won't pull like a dozer less it has grausers, loaders sometimes have smooth tracks. park it on pine tops so it don't freeze to the ground. just MO but I rather do that than pay 2800 for rent. all comes down to do you trust the seller.
It has grauser tracks on it like the dozer tracks. I use a loading hole already makes it easer to see your logs position. I trust the guy he is very honest and keeps all his equipment in great shape he takes good care of his stuff
Loading multiple logs was no problem as long as you could get them positioned right. If the guy is a good dude than I would not hesitate. Just my $.02
Tom
Is the winch the John Deere PTO drive winch, and does it work?
If the answer to those two questions is yes, the "old man" is giving you a really good deal (Have you priced one of those winches by itself lately?).
I've got a 6 way blade on my 450B, but it didn't have the skidding winch. Yep, there's probably better machines out there, but what's it going to cost you. I'm sure there's better machines out there than just about all of my stuff, but it's in good shape and I can move everything but my HydroAx on a gooseneck trailer. No trucking's got to be worth something.
Is ther an arch on the winch? Tracked skidders are slow, excepting a cat 527 with a swing grapple.
Do it. 2800 a month is getting u nothing at the end except a job. Run the track loader for 6 months sell it for 6000 and your rental just went from 16,800 (skid steer rental) for six months to 2,000 loss on the track loader. Or whatever your willing to sell it for. Or money saving from no down time if your 700 breaks. Dad had a shear on a deer track loader. Wasn't the best but made money!
I believe I will go pick it up today and give it a try and see how it dose I will try and post a pic of it later
Here is a pic
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33951/image%7E22.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33951/image%7E23.jpg)
Good for you.
I am giving my opinion on how the 450 worked for me, my uses are different than birchwoods. It may work great for his conditions and where he finds himself financially right now.
Good looking tractor! At a helluva deal! I can pretty much tell you anything you need to know about the winch, brake/ clutch assemblies and final drive.......don't ask me how I know ;) I am just now getting my final drives put back together. Seems the previous owner didn't check the gear oil often enough and it took out the half shaft bearings and seal and was filling the finals up with hyd oil outta the brake/clutch housing and everytime I checked it it was good........or not! Just got done rebuilding all of it. Not a bad job really.....
Good luck with the new loader! Let us know how it goes.
Tom
That little tractor looks real good. Not beat up much at all. From further reading in this thread i would say you probably got a good stop gap unit that will save you bucks to get what you really want down the road a bit.
While I am impressed your old Ford can haul it, is that DOT legal?
Probably not, but you thats how we roll in Appalachia! Farm tags get you by with everything! I used to haul my 450E (a bigger tractor) on my Int. 4900 single axle before I got my pintle hitch trailer.....
My Grandad was hauling his 450 with the hoe attachment on, I don't know what it weighed but he had both drives on one side blow out at once (same truck, single axle Ford). Not a good situation.
The old ford packs it no problem can't hardly tell its even back there never even had to drop a gear going up the hills it will haul just about twice that much weight. I hope I don't have to do any final drive work to it but if I do I will holler at you ky logger. My friend I got it from said it was a 86 or 87 model I did not think they made the 450c model that late it has the turbo motor in it
Quote from: shinnlinger on December 28, 2013, 10:08:39 PM
While I am impressed your old Ford can haul it, is that DOT legal?
If it's not legal it can't be too far off.
If that truck is just 26000 GVW, it probably weighs less than 12000 empty (I'd guess closer to 10000).
My 450B weighs around 12000, so I think he's probably got plenty of room on weight. Getting the axle weight right might be the trick.
around this part of ky track loaders were the gold standard for a long time still a lot of them around today but have been seeing a lot of wheel loaders now and a few knuckle booms.i have a 455 case myself it has the smooth or some call them street pads the don't tear up the ground bad at all.they are rough riding machines but they really work well in the tight spots we have to load in the Appalachians I have loaded with farm tractors and there is no comparison the track loader is by far better suited for loading logs I don't know about the backhoe but I would think traction would be an issue if it were not 4wd.
The machine is probably within the GVW of the truck (my F-600 can haul 15k) but it appears only two non DOT chains are holding it down. I would think it would call for 2 if not 3 gold chains on the machine itself and another over the forks. Chain binders were a hot topic the other day at the local chat and chew. Consensus was a safe looking load with plenty of binders avoided being stopped even if overloaded.
Regardless if one of those chains popped going around a corner it could make for a big mess. Something to think about thats all. I hope it works out for you. Did you get a bucket with it too?
That loader has to weigh more than 12,000. IIRC, that truck was 28,000 GBW? So, with the CAT engine, it's probably about 12,000, leaving 16,000 payload. It's probably the only legal load it's ever seen. :D
The silver chain is a 3/8 chain said dot aproved on the box it came in the other chain is a grade 80 1/2 chain don't think they would have any problem's with it. The trucks gvw is 27k it weighs 14k empty I run 38k tags on the truck the dot isn't that hard on us around here sorry if they make it difficult on some of you guys. He has a bucket for it I haven't picked it up yet
seen your post about your dad wrecking your other ford. glad he is ok it looks bad. How did old blue handle it any damage
Yea I'm glad he wasn't hurt it messed that truck up pretty good it never put a scratch or a dent in my blue truck the bed is made out of 3/8 steel though it has kinda put me in a bind going from 2 trucks hauling down to one
Hey Birchwood. How far is Cornettsville from like Pound or Norton Va? If you are in SW KY you are not a great distance from me.
Woops. SE KY. I am in SW VA.
I can be in wise va in about a hour I'm in between hazard and whitesburg. I got to try the track loader out today it runs and operates great her is a pic of the load I loaded with it today
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33951/image%7E25.jpg)
I was born and raised in Knott CO
Heck yeah! Lookin good! That looks like pretty decent timber too! I am supposed to look at a job in Pikeville soon, pretty good drive for me but the timber is supposed to be exceptional. We'll see.
Tom
That's good dose it have much white oak on it white oak is paying pretty good right now up to $5 a foot at Richard whites I took him a load today. I went through Morgan county to day and seen a lot of that blow down timber you have been cutting looks like a lot of people has blow down on there property. They better get it befor long looks like the bark is starting to slip on some of it good luck on your tract in pike co.
Quote from: julio on December 30, 2013, 09:21:22 PM
I was born and raised in Knott CO
. What part of knot co. That's pretty close to me about 30 min drive
how well does richard whites do ya. They seem pretty fair? my parents live in morgan county and i drive there everyday going to work at the prison. Starting dayshift this sunday and have teusday wednesday off. On the 7th itll make a year i been there. I figure stick around it long enough to pay off a few more bills i owe and save some money up then move on and try my hand at logging or something
Irishman Creek turn at beach of off RT15. Are you looking for another truck if you are pm me
You're hauling all the way to Morehead!?!? I only haul there when the local mill here shuts down. They like to stick it too me when I have to haul there. American Stave just opened this past summer in Morehead, heard they were paying top dollar for stave White Oak. I do really at Rick Smallwood's in Menifee Co. it's close and you will not find a more fair individual.
Yeah the blowdown is about done. Most of it leaved out this past summer, and it's still doin fair. The black oak is shaggin bark off and sap rotting BAD (but whats new) The poplar is still in good shape for the most part. In most stands I have been in I would estimate at least 50% loss from pre tornado values. Alot of good wood was turned into toothpicks. I can't wait to get outta this junk!
There is supposed to be a good bit of white oak on that Pike co. job, but man.....the freaking drive it will be! (if I get it)
Going to look at a small white oak veneer job tomm. not a big job but the quality is supposed to be good.
Tom
what mill in morgan co are you hauling to. Only place i can think of off top of my head that buys logs is that place on 519 just outside of west liberty
The one on 519 is Bill Fannin's other woodyard, no mill. He trucks it to Morehead from there. There is Fannin's out toward Crockett, I haul to the mill in Menifee. I live on the Menifee/Morgan Co.
Tom
I would love to get back up around that area I went to lumber grading school in morehead in 1988 good times!!!went to all the area sawmills.
I took Richard white a load to his new yard it is out side of morehead but its still in Rowan co. I think. I know a yard in pikeville the mill over here pine mountain owns I've never brought any thing to that yard so I don't know how they will do you the one over here don't do you very well. The stave mill in morehead do you know what they are paying on staves