In the city of York, 6 miles from my mill, re-construction is under way to completely rebuild the interior of the Presbyterian Church Sanctuary built back in 1864.
I got a call to go look at this job.....yep....they need a sawmill.
Termite problems plagued the Pine flooring, floor joist and basically every where, but only in certain places.
The floor was taken up and most was able to be saved except for about 1/3 which has to be thrown away.
So when the wood workers were replacing old rotten hand hewed floor joist with new modern joist.......they decided to replace some of the good hand hewed joist. The good hand hewed joist they took out, will be re-sawn to replace the flooring that had to be thrown away.
Some of these joist are 12" x 12" x 16 foot and others are only 3" x 12" x 12 foot and 16 foot.
All need to be re-sawn to 1-1/4" thick x 5-3/4" x long.
These wood workers do nothing but this kind of work and understand the nail factor. In fact, they have 2 guys that do nothing but nail hunt with detectors.....but they know some will be missed.
All the flooring will be re-planed with T&G applied. The whole sanctuary is set up like a giant wood working shop with everything the workers could ask for......except a sawmill. ;D
I'll bet I couldn't come close to guessing what this over all job is costing. :o
I'm charging $50.00/hour plus blades.
Enjoy the pics.
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that looks like a great job, hope everything works out . 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
What a great, interesting job this should be for you. :)
How much does an ancient 12 X 12 X 16' beam weigh?
Chief, I have no idea what one of those beams weigh.
but one thing I forgot to say was.....50 years ago, I used to walk 1/4 mile to this same church from my elementary school at 3pm twice a week, to take Piano lesson from the church's music director.
So there is a little history here for me too. :)
Yep....back in 1963, a 7 year old could walk the streets with no fear.
QuoteHow much does an ancient 12 X 12 X 16' beam weigh?
Rough figure, 50 lb/cuft so in the neighborhood of 800 lbs.
Nice Job, are they going to bring the beams to you or are you going there with the mill?
Quote from: Peter Drouin on January 13, 2014, 06:58:38 PM
Nice Job, are they going to bring the beams to you or are you going there with the mill?
They are gonna bring them to me Peter......thank goodness. :)
The church is in the city limits....permit for me would be involved plus I would have to set up in the parking lot where Moms bring there kids to the church kindergarden. So me taking the mill to church was kinda far from discussion. :)
****I saw some very nice 1864 Pine stock that was thrown into a pile bound for the dumpster. I'm goon see if they will give me this stuff for some tables, etc.*****
Not sure how it is in S.C., but around here if you work in the city limits (depending on the size of the town) you would have to pay their city tax :(
POSTON, what a coincidence. I committed to a job a couple of weeks ago, to start in the near future, to resaw beams from buildings in the Carolinas. Some of the beams are about the same size.
Mine isn't for a church, it's for a company specializing in old wood like that. And this is local for me, not up your way. They got a bunch and a pile of these beams! Maybe the same buildings?
These folks got a team de-nailing the beams. I know I'll still hit metal they missed, but they're trying hard to get it all.
And as it happens, I'm charging the exact same as you are.
HEY!!! Before you start thinking we might be related, remember I've met you before. Don't go there! :D (And Danny, you stay out of this.) ;D
Since we are kin.....do your old cars come into play?.......'Ol Brother, 'Ol Pal? :D
OK, I am staying out of this. I just almost posted something about needing to be fixed, but chose not to after heeding your warning :D.
Quote from: WDH on January 13, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
I just almost posted something about needing to be fixed, but chose not to ..... :D.
Oh, I would loved to hear that one. :D
It involved both of you...... :)
I just snorted coffee out my nose. :snowball:
It must be time for this kind of job. I am doing something very similar. A customer is planning to build a new house just up the road from where I live. He located a "free" log barn that he thought would make great flooring for the home. All I needed to do is go pick up the logs, pull the nails, saw to lumber, dry, plane and tongue and groove the wood. It will not be free when I get done. Here are some pics. of the progress to date.
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The first of three loads of beams.
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On the hunt for nails. I spent more time looking for metal than sawing.
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Found a big one. That nail is laying on a beam that is eight inches wide.
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About a quarter of the beams were eighteen feel long.
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I have to admire the skill of the builders of this barn. The accuracy of the beams is impressive. I generally got a consistent four boards out of each beam.
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Loaded up and ready to haul to the Kiln. They will dry to 10 percent and kill anything that may be living in the wood. The beams were sopping wet when I sawed. It rained all of the way so I got all of the mud off of my truck.
DanG Warren....I hear ya! That's a nice load.
How many BF?
Are you taking it to Ellis?
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on January 14, 2014, 04:27:16 PM
DanG Warren....I hear ya! That's a nice load.
How many BF?
Are you taking it to Ellis?
I did not do a tally but I think it is about 1500 board feet. Yes I took it out to Ellis. Scott seems like a knowledgeable guy and the price is reasonable. He thought 3 days in the kiln will bring it down to about 10%. The drive was not as long as I thought.
Warren
The 1864 beams and lumber started coming in this afternoon. Gonna have 8-12 loads.
Some of this stuff has a twist to it......literally. :D
Its really not that bad of a sawing job......I've hit 3 nails so far......I guess its a little aggravating as you would expect.
The 1-1/4" boards I'm producing look very nice.....I just can't get over the musty smell of this old Pine though.
So I just tape a $100.00 dollar bill under my nose......makes the job smell better.
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$100 is too cheap for that job. Even a plain old oak slab fetches $300 :).
This crowd will have at least $100.00 in just blade charges. :D
I'm circling every nail I hit with a crayon so it won't destroy his spiral planer. :)
I won't make a comment about the $100 bill, but I will say that's some nice looking lumber you're making David. When this job comes in for me I hope it turns out as nice.
Okay I lied. If that bill came out of my wallet it would smell just as musty as that wood does. The rest of the comments I'll keep to myself... :D
Having the beams sawn into boards is only the first step. How is the Church going to have the lumber milled into flooring?
The sanctuary is set up like a shop. Planers, T&G machine......it all can be done in church.
So you must be done, how did it come out?
Quote from: Peter Drouin on January 17, 2014, 09:06:05 PM
So you must be done, how did it come out?
No, I'm not done AT ALL. I sawed the first load, they picked it up this morning at about 11am.....said they'd be right back with another load.
They didn't get back until 2;15pm with the next load.....by then, I had started sawing an 11 log White Oak job. I told them I would not be sawing more flooring until tomorrow afternoon.......they weren't real happy....but HEY....I'm not gonna just sit around and wait.....I'm pretty backed up right now. :)
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on January 17, 2014, 08:37:39 AM
The sanctuary is set up like a shop. Planers, T&G machine......it all can be done in church.
Sounds Heavenly! ;)
I thought they brought all of the over in one load, sorry. It is hard when you're waiting for a customer. But your like me and don't wait :D :D we go to the next customer giddy up :D :D 8)
Thats the way it goes Peter. Customers will bring logs over and ask me when I can have them done. I ask them when can they pick up the lumber?
They tell me they can pick it up Saturday morning.....so I have it ready.
Then they don't show up and I ask....?????.......they say, Oh I forgot, my son had a ball game, can I pick it up Tuesday?
It never quits. smiley_smash
I know I have a customer coming tomorrow he was to be here 3 weeks ago. :D :D so I guess If you want to work for your self you have to take the good .Bad and stupid :D :D and do the best you can :D :D ;)
Quote from: Peter Drouin on January 17, 2014, 09:59:43 PM
I know I have a customer coming tomorrow he was to be here 3 weeks ago. :D :D so I guess If you want to work for your self you have to take the good .Bad and stupid :D :D and do the best you can :D :D ;)
We may have the same customer and don't even know it! :D :D :D :D :D
Ssssshhh! You are scaring me! Maybe I don't want to get into this business! :o
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on January 17, 2014, 09:21:50 PM
[quote author=Peter Drouin link=topic=71976.msg1087153#msg1087153 date=1390010
No, I'm not done AT ALL. I sawed the first load, they picked it up this morning at about 11am.....said they'd be right back with another load.
They didn't get back until 2;15pm with the next load.....by then, I had started sawing an 11 log White Oak job. I told them I would not be sawing more flooring until tomorrow afternoon.......they weren't real happy....but HEY....I'm not gonna just sit around and wait.....I'm pretty backed up right now. :)
Maybe you could mention to them " If your coming to pick up the boards bring a load of beams with you". Believe it or not there are some people that can not multi task think. ;D
Quote from: warren46 on January 14, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
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On the hunt for nails. I spent more time looking for metal than sawing.
Warren46, I noticed your metal detector. I was about to order 1 and found mediocre reviews at best. How is it working out for you?
Talking about nails......when sawing these beams, I was really surprised at the nails I saw in plain view the "nail pullers" missed. But I was equally surprised at the ones they found embedded and pulled out.
Metal detector or not, your gonna hit nails regardless.
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on January 18, 2014, 10:23:19 AM
Talking about nails......when sawing these beams, I was really surprised at the nails I saw in plain view the "nail pullers" missed. But I was equally surprised at the ones they found embedded and pulled out.
Metal detector or not, your gonna hit nails regardless.
Maybe there blind nail pullers :D :D :D
Quote from: chopperdr47 on January 18, 2014, 09:30:05 AM
Quote from: warren46 on January 14, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
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On the hunt for nails. I spent more time looking for metal than sawing.
Warren46, I noticed your metal detector. I was about to order 1 and found mediocre reviews at best. How is it working out for you?
The metal detector is one that the Charlotte Woodworkers Association has for members to rent at nominal charge. The adjustment is a little finicky but I found a very high percentage of the nails in the beams. I removed a couple of hundred and only found four when sawing.
You need to be at least ten feet away from large metal objects (sawmill or loader) so it does not work very well once the log is on the mill. I suspect this is the case for most metal detectors.
Since all of the metal in the beams were nails that were near the surface I do not know how well it will find metal buried in the wood.
All in all I found its performance acceptable and will consider buying one for myself.
Warren
Or have 2 trailers. Bring one with you loaded,take one back loaded.
Great idea! smiley_idea
How's it going :D
Not sawing this week....tooooo COLD. In fact, the crew at the church has not been working.
The WIND is cutting!
Poston,
Did you finish this job? Just curious how it turned out, with the nails and all.
Hate our schedules conflicted Sunday, we were on the way to a bday party in Rock Hill and drove by your place.
Yes I did finish it.
And you know, to be honest, It was really not a hard job....not at all......but I hated it.
For some reason, I had rather saw logs than beams. :)
It was just aggravating. What surprised me was out of 6 trailer load of beams and 3 inch boards....I only ruined 3 blades. Those guys really did a heck of a job finding nails. smiley_carpenter_hit_thumb
The most surprising part was when I called them to pick up the last load......he said "how much do I make the check for?"
A driver showed up ....hooked up.....and paid up. 8)
I was then invited to drop in and watch the work progress on this old church.
I did learn that back in the 1800's, the roof structure was built to hold Cedar Shakes, At some point, someone decided to take the Cedar roof off and install Slate roofing. :o :o :o
Well I think we all know now why the roof trusses have to be replaced......the whole roof is sagging. During the tear off.....they found and old Prince Albert Tobacco can in the attic with tobacco still in it. I didn't see the can but he showed me a pic.....it was mint condition.
So hopefully I will go to the church pretty soon and take a few pics for this post.....should look nice.
An amazing job, not soon forgotten, it had to be very rewarding, nice work, david
Another fine job done.
David did you have any problems with the knots (being hard with the age) I find that when I skin one side of beam to get a flat side if the blade doesn't have much material on top of blade it will want to ride over the knot creating a wave.
Quote from: redbeard on February 05, 2014, 11:20:38 AM
David did you have any problems with the knots (being hard with the age)
I guess the answer is yes and no.
We talked about the 50 dollar per hour before these oldies were delivered. He was aware that I would be sawing slower due to the hard Pine knots. I really had to make myself slow down to keep from having wavy boards.
I would shave the top of the beam first, flip it and shave the bottom side so it would set on the bed flush. Then I could look for over sized knots .....if I didn't see any, I could saw a little faster......if I could see knots, that would determine my speed. I would try to change blades as often as needed. I didn't use the de-barker......but you would be surprised at the grit that was still embedded in these old beams.
But keep in mind I had to consider the nail factor. Some of the nails were steel cut nail. I went slow for this reason also. Going to fast and hitting a steel nail could cause a blade to dip tremendously and ruin the next board. If I go slow enough, I could stop the head movement when I heard the blade hit the nail. These beams were 8 inches wide on the side I was milling. If I'd hit a nail...STOP......and back out. I could then take my Sawzall and use a long metal cutting blade on it and finish sawing the nail / nails into. Change sawmill blade, go back into the cut and finish the board. Remove that board and pull the nails out.
So you can see why this was a little aggravating.......kinda had to be on your toes and not thinking about golf. ;D
These guys buy spiral planer blades by the case when they do floor restoration. Yep, $$$$$$$. But from what I here, they do good work.
Good idea using sawzall! I had a few problems with knots on the doug fir beams mostly when I was skimming the twist off the first cut.
This old church never ceases to amaze me. I love historical buildings like this.
I stopped buy to pick up a check today and really was impressed with the progress.
Here's pics of the outside.
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You can see in these pics some of the old walls and how they were constructed.
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I went down in the basement.....spooky....where the foundation began in 1864. The dark hole is where a large pipe was to get heat into the church from a wood burning boiler. Notice some critter has a nest in the hole now.
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Some of the old beam floor joist....the hearts were solid but not much left.
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Here's the interior of the Sanctuary where all the planing and T&G goes on.
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It was good to see some of my re-saw work after being planed.
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Once the floor is complete....it will be covered for protection and the ceiling will be re-done.
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Hopefully this church will be here another 150 years.....and I'll just be "Some Guy" with a sawmill who helped in the restoration. :D
Is the hole outside stucco or limestone?
You did a fine job your name should be in the history of the church so that 150 years from now people will know how helped rebuild that fine old church 8) 8) 8) 8)
Finding your lumber was a nice treat David. It will be even more so when the job is completed. Thanks for the tour. :)
That looks like a good size church. Looks like ALOT of work needs to be done to it too. 6 month-a year job to do it all?
When's it quit?
I got a little break and actually thought I had finished sawing the flooring for the old church.
Today.....here comes another load. electricuted-smiley
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the work and it pays really good......but have any of you experienced the continuous smell of this old heart Pine? It gets old.....quick and stays in your mind and your nose for a while.
And nails? Not to bad......but of I hit 4 nails per trailer load, it becomes a pain. They pay for the blades but I don't think customers realize the aggravation and time. taz-smiley
I would rather be sawing logs with pretty grain. Know what I mean Vern? :)
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That is whatcha get for being so good. 8)
Quote from: Magicman on April 21, 2014, 08:17:09 PM
That is whatcha get for being so good. 8)
There's an APP to fix that. :D
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on April 21, 2014, 08:07:21 PMbut have any of you experienced the continuous smell of this old heart Pine? It gets old.....quick and stays in your mind and your nose for a while.
Sounds like it smells like
$$$ :)