has anyone tried using sleeves on untreated posts for building pole building style. i found www.postprotector.com (http://www.postprotector.com) . this is supposed to be used with treated posts but wondering if i can use them with my own sawmilled post.
Not sure if I understand the post completely, but I have sawn, and am sawing cedar for wrapping around post and beams currently. I have also seen man post covered with an array of materials, and have decided it all depends on the end product desired. Covering is somewhat of an art, and can be done with the right skill level.
david
maybe i didnt say what i was meaning. i am wanting to build a big pole building and shed. i got my own timber and sawmill. i was wanting 6 by 6 posts in the ground. this would save about half on cost not counting sawing out. kind of wondering if my own sawed out posts would still rot in those protectors because of not being treated.
Quotekind of wondering if my own sawed out posts would still rot in those protectors because of not being treated.
I do believe that these "protectors" are a sales gimmick as far as preventing rot or decay (and may even promote it).
However, in a cattle or hog barn, they may keep some mechanical damage at bay such as manure removing equipment.
For decay, don't think you can beat either decay resistant wood (i.e. black locust) or preservative-treated wood.
kinda wondering the same thing. i know if you wrap a post where it cant breathe it will rot. maybe the liner can be filled with treatment(used motor oil) or something.
I make my post out of 2 by 6,s nailed or I should say laminated together. If im making a 6 by 6. I start with 2 treated 2 by 6,s 8 ft long. One of them I leave 8 ft and the other I cut at the 3 ft mark making a 3 and 5 ft piece. Nail the 3 pieces together and they go into the ground. I then nail the 2 by 6,s that I cut from my lumber and the over lap works out fine. They seem to stay straighter and I think are stronger.
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I can't say I have seen rafters put up that way before. Learn something new every day.
Back in the 70's my father and I had to replace the clothes line pole at the old house. We went to the woods, cut a spruce pole, pealed the bark and wrapped the bottom 3 feet in a scrap piece of vapor barrier that was kicking around. 25 years later the pole rotted out and I had to replace it. When I pulled out the plastic wrapped piece from the ground the wood was just as bright and solid as the day we pealed the bark from it.
No matter how you do it, anything you are going to use without chemical treatment will start to rot, with some exception. Locust, heart cherry and white oak are good species to use for posts due to extractive content and tyloses in the pores.
You need 3 things for wood to be consumed by fungi. Oxygen, Moisture and Food. Wood under water doesn't not rot because you have cut off the oxygen supply. Wood that has been thermally modified does not rot because the sugars have been crystalized and not able for fungi to consume, removing the food source.
Check out fence posts. They rot at the ground line. Not above or below but at ground line. Constantly wetting and drying, oxygen is present and so is a food source.
I actually have one of those covers at the school to show as a demonstration and its basically a product to sell, nothing more or less.
If you want it to last, buy pressure treated posts that are rated for "In Ground Contact" and you will be fine.
You're right NMFP. Wood will alway rot out at the ground line. Cedar is good wood for in ground posts but I find tamarack to be better. I have a mixture of both in my pasture fences. They have been in the ground about 18 years. The cedar posts are starting to rot off at the ground line but the tamarack posts show little deterioration.
I use hemlock 2x6 for the stall floors in the horse barn. I coat the boards with linseed oil and let it dry before I install them. Linseed oil is enviro friendly and safe to use around animals. It performs just as well as chemical treatment.
I have seen concrete post anchors in Farm Show Magazine that go in the ground and the posts are anchored on top of them. Looks like a good way to avoid PT lumber. I had a pole barn put up a couple of years ago and they used 3 laminated 2x6's with PT lumber on the bottom 5 ft as mentioned by Ohio_Bill and they met all building code requirements and with the overlapped joints are extremely straight and strong..
My last hay barn is built as Ohio-Bill said, the poles we bought were 3 - 2x8s sandwiched together with pressure treated lumber used on the bottom 5'. the building is 40 x 80 with 16' ceiling. the only thing I did was wrap from just above ground to 8' up with 2x10 to make the posts beefier - not for building strenght but the wrap takes the nicks & makes them easier to see backing in. Just lag bolted & glued them on. Going to make my mill shed the same way only will construct the posts myself
Forgot to say the reason for wrapping the posts is that it has one side open (shed style) that we back into. those are the posts we wrapped
Laminating the 2x material at the bottom is the way to go. However, you need to be careful. The reason being is that some 2x6 and 2x8 pressure treated material is not rated for in ground usage and only labeled for above ground use. I was called into a case a year ago now that they built an addition on a barn that way. Used 3 home made posts out of 2x6 material and laminated the non pressure treated to the top. Problem was, the customer noticed some miscellaneous tags laying around that said above ground use only on them. Checked it out and the customer sued the contractor. I was a witness that had to say yes, the material was only rated for above ground and not in ground.
The contractor was made to replace the bottom portion of the posts and all was well.
When building any projects, make sure the preservative method and chemicals coincide with in ground use. Just another way to add complication to the process.
Quote from: Peter Drouin on January 25, 2014, 07:46:14 AM
I can't say I have seen rafters put up that way before. Learn something new every day.
Its what I did to get 40 ft clear span with out using 40 ft trusses . I should also say we had some free bar joist . Im not a builder or much of a carpenter but its still standing . LOL
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I have laminated posts before just as described and it worked well. It wasn't my idea...I had Morton Buildings put up a pole barn for me. They used all laminated posts and explained why. Pressure treating will completely penetrate a 2 by but will not get to the center of a 6" X 6" post. Rot starts in the untreated center.
Its hard to find treated rated ground contact anymore. Go to a real lumberyard and ask for ground contact CCA. Yes CCA has been banned for most uses but it is still legal for farm use.
I read that add for the post protector and they still require a treated post, so it looks like a scheme to part you from your money with no benefit.
The problem around here is that you won't find any 2X6's or 2X8' that are treated for ground contact but 6 X 6's that are green are all treated for ground contact. Therefore I'm not going to get three 2 X' and expect to laminate them and stick them ij the ground. I'll opt for the green 6 X6 to be safe.
I just built a pole structure using 6X's and 2 X 12's I opted to just build my trusses and sheeting from my saw milled cedar and get the green 6 X 6's and 2 x 12 header beams from the local lumber yard. Even though this stock I had was cedar I supplied store bought wolmANIZED to have a better job, I think.
rim
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thinking about setting posts on round pier concrete. still i wonder if the sleeves will protect but idk. i know you could keep treatment inside the sleeves but they still might rot from inside the center of the post.
Nice work on the barn Ohio_Bill. Anyway to convince you to come up here and build a hay shed for me?
One trick you can do and I have done many times is dig your holes, purchase a pyramid concrete deck block and put that in the bottom of the hole. Put your 4x4 or 6x6 on that and then fill the hole with gravel or creek stone. If you keep the posts dry and well drained, you will not have a problem. Not everyone out there in lumber yards sells the same product so be careful of what you pick.
If those bases are liquid tight, then you could put them in the ground and fill them with post preservative. I looked at the website but couldn't tell if they would hold the liquid or not.
i watched the video and they said if they was exposed to outside water to drill the dimple out at the bottom to let water drain out so i think they are sealed. i just thought they might rot from inside the post.
excuse me. it was in the instructions not a video.
Around here you can purchase dimension lumber that is rated for ground contact, it is used for treated wood foundations.
I have used 3X3X1/4 angle iron on two corners of post in concrete about 18" above top of concrete. Tacked an X out of rebar to bottom of angle. With our shallow frost line concrete is about 3' in ground. Form the concrete about 3 to 4" above ground line, set post on top of concrete, then bolt the post to the angle. I used round cylinders to form concrete. I have some 4X4 untreated SYP post that have been in place for more than 12 years with no problems.
I have taken sections of utility poles set them in the ground then used my own untreated above that. Frank C.
You might want to try sonatube for the inground portion of your post . Sonatube is a cardboard tube that will form a nice round concrete pillar inground and above. Put post anchors in the concrete after the pour . Pre measure where they will go before you call the readymix truck.
For using post that aren't treated, I'd go with concrete piers like others have suggested. Here's a link showing how another member made brackets for securing his post to concrete. I'd add one step and use a piece of rebar like wwsjr suggest or flat stock to keep the post from sitting on the bracket so air can move under post.
Here's the link and the pic is post #16. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,37670.msg545327.html#msg545327 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,37670.msg545327.html#msg545327)
i emailed postprotector this past week end and this morning i got a call from them. they are telling me that the product will keep a untreated post from rotting. idk