The Forestry Forum

To everyone:

I have posted on the FF now for a couple of weeks and feel like I have met all of you in person. It appears like you have your own way of conducting business. Only similarity is, most of you own bandmills, with the exception of a couple of circle saw mills.

I have digested comments from all who responded to my posts, with great interest I might add, but I was wondering:
How do you really make your living???

Is it with your mill, or is that a hobby?

It is not that I really care or mind, I am just trying to get to know you a little better.
Please elaborate a little, mabey some of your friends here will learn more about you as well.
I will participate as well.

Your newest admirer,
ppeterson

Hey ppete i have a full time job and only saw part time, but trying to get some more business so i can go full time sawing and maybe a part time job,i hate punching a clock :(

I am drawing a pension from a former life.  8) 8) 8)

Our mill operation got to be past serious part time a couple of years ago.  Mary has taken over sawing, log buying, and about everything else except some of material handling and maintenance – I still get stuck with that.  

The mill operation IS Mary's fulltime job and provides a fulltime wage.  I still have my day job – mostly because I've got too much invested in it to walk away at this time.  It also provides insurance benefits, etc.

I have been at the shop for 26 years, the first 12 I was laid off more than I work, so I made my mind up years ago that I would never depend on the clock for full time. For years I did the construction thing part time, but being this is Yoder country I couldnt make it working for 12 cents an hour. :D I've been doing the band sawing for about 5 years now,part time. Really enjoy it and make more than 12 cents an hour.
EZ

I sub contract out as a circle mill sawyer.  Full time.  I also have contracted out as a forester and in mill management.  30+ years of experience in hardwoods helps.

I will be using portable sawmills so that harvesting trees on our plantation in Costa Rica will not be destroying the land. I guess my real business is growing trees, and the sawmill is so that I get the processing profit.

Since I don't have to go and get trees, but have my own, it allows me more control of the processing of the lumber as well as gives me a higher profit margin on what I sell.

I work for the Michigan DNR's Wildlife Div as a Wildlife Management Assistant.  Sawing's a hobby but maybe someday

I contract sawmilling services for about 1/3 of my income. The next 1/3 is equipment and machine sales, and the remaining third is from timber sales, there was another 1/3 which was tree surgery but that adds up to be a tough working week in anyone's language. Something had to get the chop - it was tree surgery.

Anyway, the latter two are taking over the first steadily but surely. I only work with hardwoods, the higher value the better.

There's no profit in softwood in Europe.

Andrew

somemes I will build a house and sale it,or find a rundown house and fix it up and sale it.I bought a 300 ac of cut over timberland from a logger in the early 90's.I bought a sawmill not to long ago so I could cut some of the trees of the land to use in my building, and to cut out the middle man (Lowe's) :)I started being a builder in 1968 when I bought my first rundown overgrown farm with a rundown farm house.out in conntry.A few years ago I drove by the old farm and now the country is more like a city.,houses every were. :o :o :o

Retired educator here.  I tought 7th graders, Social Studies, English and Literature for 30 years.  Retired from teaching 4 years ago.  Oregon publice employes, up until a couple years ago had a great retirement program.  the salaries were not always that great but the benefits and retirement was pretty good.  
 Purchased my first Mobile Dimension mill about 15 years ago.  I have purchased 2 more since and recently sold the first a month ago to some fellas in California.  I married a 70 acre timber farm 25 years ago, so I have most all of the Douglas Fir, Grand Fir, Oak and Maple I would want.  I cut very little of my own timber unless absolutely necessary.
 I have been in the timber and lumber industry all of my life.  My father use to purchase the total output of 23 sawemills here in Oregon and market the majority to the East Coast area.  He also operated a retail lumber company for some 25 years or so, before retireing.  
I do a great deal of consulting for people; helping with their forest lands.  I recently took on the management of 320 acres of reforested land here in the Willamette Valley.   It has been a new kind of activity for me as I have never really wanted to charge a fee for helping people and their needs with forestry issues.
With the advent of such high prices for fuel, I am beginning to change some of my habits of not charging a small fee for going over 20 miles from the farm, as I only get about 10mpg with my F450 :'(  

I've been a full time career firefighter for 15 years and saw part time. You'd be surprised how much work I get just from the firemen I work with. My only "paper" advertising is business cards. My main sawmill goal (at the moment) is to make enough sawing to justify the mill, and keep me home more, until we can buy some land and build a home with our own lumber. Hopefully then I can use the mill stationary most of the time and be home with the family even more.
 The sawing ain't making me rich, but it does ok and I've become a real popular guy around the fire house!

Bought my LT 40 8 or 9 years ago and ran it part time while teaching high school math and science.  June of last year I took 26% retirement and never looked back.  The year since then has been a mix of sawing and other wood related as well as non wood related jobs.  Right now I am doing some clean up work for customers after they have trees removed.  I resided the front of a house this weekend due it had water damge from a roof leak.  Next week I am removing 6 small and 2 large trees from a side yard, and already have the wood sold as firewood.  On and off I am working for a friend who cuts trees who broke his leg and needs the help.  So, while I am not getting rich I am paying the bills and finally "self employed"

   Boiler operator for  Georgia Pacific,just got a sawmill .Looking forward to the day when I'm free

I have been working full time as a paramedic since '91, except for a small amout of time I took off to try the sawmill thing full time. We hope to work our way back to the full time mill somewhere in the future.

13 years working as a mechanical engineer in the nuclear service industry.  I'm trying to get all the equipment in place (cheaply) to haul, mill, dry, and sell small amounts of lumber.  I hope to get some income from lumber sales, some income from selling furniture I build, and possibly some additional income from selling other local people's crafts in addition to my furniture from a store front.  If I can make all that happen - then it's goodbye to these beige cube walls.

I bought my first sawmill in early 1997 after being a log truck driver for 20 years. The mill was a toy back then but over a six year period, I went from playing "Sawmill Guy" to actually doing it full time. I sold the log truck a year ago and have been fulltime milling since. Its a tuff road to hoe but its comming around and for the first time since I decided to give this a shot, things are looking positive.

Oh, I also play guitar in a weekend warrior type band(Local pubs, weddings, yadda) which is good for about 8500.00 CASH every year,(lovit :D)

I'm a chemist and run the oil and coolant analysis lab for the Cat dealer in the Dakotas. Was a heavy equipment mechanic for about 15 years before I went back to school. I do part-time sawing with the hopes of being able to do much more in the future. Will probably have to wait till I retire though but maybe by then I'll know what I'm doing. Maybe someday I'll live where there are some trees. :'(

I am full time Supply Chain and IT support and P/T sawyer although I put in at least 20/hrs a week. The first pays the bills until I build my inventory to the levels necessary to give my present job the heave ho. Slowly building clientele and sales.  I do want to be full time within 2 years.

my real job is digging holes in the Gulf Of Mexico. It pays the bills fairly well and give me plenty of time to enjoy my hobby. I work two weeks then I'm off two weeks. Someitmes I make a little money with the mill. Mostly about enough to buy blades and upkeep, dinner out now and then. Wish I could do more but there just ain't enough decent lumber where I'm at. LeeB

  i am on fixed income , from former inside factory job

I am a retired trucker of 30 years and I just bought my swingblade this year.  It is more of a hobby right now but I plan on cutting my own grade lumber, drying it in a solar kiln and doing anything else I can to add value to the lumber.  I also enjoy making furniture, cedar chests and adirondack chairs are two of my favorites.

I'm retired US Navy Nuclear Submarines which gives me a monthly income. I am also working full time as a MUZAK service manager which pays twice a month. The mill was just built on a whim, but now occupies all my free time and thoughts and hopes and desires and............

Well Ppetersen we probably have met.  ;)  I took care of the utility line clearance duties for the Land 'O Lakes district of Wisconsin Electric for over 20 years.

I manage private timberland and purchase and harvest timber, and run a conventional handset circle mill. I do a little brokering too sometimes. Also I farm 200+ acres on the side, mostly cash hay and sweet corn. Today we made hay, tommorow we'll cut logs.

I'm not sure.  Two years ago I worked a short spell as a carpenter forman on a co-generation plant, till they moved me up to general forman and I got the joy of laying myself off when the job was starting to wind down.  I have been trying to build up a scrap metal business since, but do a lot of buying and selling of odd stuff also.  I keep receiving calls to cut lumber on shares and do some custom logging for past customers.  These I usually turn down for monatary reasons.  In the past I have cut shake bolts, sawed cants for various mills on my mobile dimension, on an old Belsaw and with a 36" Alaskan mill.  I have cut grade stakes, wedges, and blocking, even fence boards with a radial arm saw.  I have a scraggsawmill sitting as well as a small home built circlemill that I built to salvage slabs with.  I am now looking for a second job for my wife so that I can continue with the style of living I am accustomed to.

Captain is short for "Captain Comeback", champion of product quality and "fix it right the first time".  At least that is the view I hold of my job as a Service Engineer for General Motors.  If I had a lot of time and you all had enough interest, I could tell you everything that a Service Engineer does, but I will not bore you with details.  Great Job, Great Company.

Milling was borne out of need for me as with many.  We bought land, I needed to clear it because the wife needed a horse barn that needed to be build from the trees on the property because I needed to say that it was......Anyhow 6 years and two sawmills later, the business is taking on a life of its own.  (Taking my weekends, taking my vacations... ;D)  I always explain to everybody that it is a hobby business that keeps me off the ski slopes and golf courses, and can actually self sustain income.  No regrets, just a lot more to learn.

CAPTAIN

My wife's a school marm ;D

Retired Army ... Helicopter instructor pilot, Aviation Safety Manager, Multi-engine Airplane Pilot (all army stuff).

Rehired as Civil Service, Still doing some flying but mostly flying a desk.

Sawmilling was going to be my retirement job to supplement a fixed income but the rats offered me a position too good to turn down (at least for a while). So now I'm sawing at a reduced scale and staying tooooo busy with every thing going on.

Eric

Working full time in the rat race as a process instrument tech at a pharmacuetical plant in southern Michigan. I started the saw mill as a hobby but now do it as a second job.
Right now I'm working with a tree service company. They supply the logs, I supply the mill and labor. We are doing pretty good right now selling the lumber.
I hate punching a clock and having upper management dorks tell me how to do my job so right now I keep dreaming of working full time for myself. But with 2 kids, a dog, 2 ponys and a wife - it looks dim.

It looks pretty dim, or grim, for you oakie. You put the wife after the dog and ponies. Hope she doesn't read this thread.

Good point Frickman. I hope she don't read this either or I'll be sleeping with the ponys! :o

I'm too ornery and stubborn to work for somebody else.  I've been told that lots of times!!!!  Got into roofing by accident.  It's one a them things that most folks don't like to do.  I had just come out of working in a furniture factory for 10 years. Worked for the other man roofing for almost 5 years.  I saw what money could be made and I put myself into training, learning about the best equipment and tools and methods and business practices.  Never wanted to get too big, just find my notch and make a good living.  My favorite new houses are the big tall steep ones that most other folks won't touch. My favorite tear off jobs and reroofs are for retired or elderly people, and trading with them and giving them a fair price on their house. It's worked out really well. One a these days I'm gonna have me a sawmill to play with.

I'm a salesman.  Cover Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa.  I don't get very much time to cut, but am just cutting for my own use anyway.  With the amount of time I've spent on the road the past couple of years, I haven't had much time to do anything.

But, the old Jetta will pass 225,000 miles tomorrow.  It would be higher, but my wife drove it for a year and a half...putting a whopping 5 or 6,000 on it over that time, or I would be at 300k.  Since it hasn't broke in that time, it has freed up the cash to buy a used 066 and an Alaskan.  Just nice to get out in the woods, away from people, and back to my outdoor/farming roots.  You can take the boy off the farm, but...My wife is just beginning to figure the rest out after 15 years.

Retired educator here, the last nine years in the administrative capacity.  Fourteen years were spent in coaching and being in KY, of course the sport had to be basketball. :)  Have had the sawdust bug for more than 20 years.  Bought an older model, used circular mill about 1980 and have had the fever ever since.  Got a new fully hydraulic band mill in Jan. 2002, a year and half after I retired.  Really have the sawdust bug now!!

Intent was a hobby, with enough sales to meet expenses, and maybe occasionally add a piece of support equipment.  Didn't know so many people would want custom sawing or would be wanting lumber.  Stay busy, more than I really would like to be, but it does keep me from being out spending money on the golf course or on the lake fishing. :D  Problem here is a lot of people always seem to be looking for a bargin, not realizing that fuel and blades cost me the same as the big time operators.  Actually the big time production mills in this area won't sell small amounts to individuals, and there aren't very many small full time operators in the area.  Also have a woodworking shop so I try to keep a good supply of stock on hand.  Now that the wife is also retired, she does the sawing, I do the "grunt" work, and we get to spend a lot more time together.  And we still speak to each other at the end of the day!!! ;D  

So I guess you could say I'm spending my twilight years doing something I really enjoy and wish I could have done it all my working years.

  I am a Sawyer,
  I saw logs.
  Some times I mess up,
  and saw my dogs.

  I saw the homes,
  of birds and squirrels.
  To build homes,
  for boys and girls.

  I often set on stumps,
  and wonder of the tree.
  Which stood here for,
  years and where it be.

  Boards, cant's and ties,
  all these things I saw.
  But for a living you ask,
  Sawyer I am, that's all.

  I would give up my day job but then I would have to saw at night.  I saw and raise timber frames but saw just about every day.  Shipped lumber from coast to coast. From my front porch can see nothing but trees for as far as I can see.   I do not have to make a living as I live in the Ozarks and we live off the land.  It is a pretty land but poor for sure.  But the good side is all the fiber in the sawdust keeps me regular.
ARKANSAWYER

Well, I've got a full time day job 3 days a week.  I do a little excavating part time when the fish are not biting and when the crabs and shrimp are not finding their ways into my pots.  So with that being said, that would acount for the 25 hours on my new mill in 4 months.  Been eat'in a lot of seafood lately. :)

Arkansawyer; I do believe you missed your calling. Very good.

I'm an all around woody guy!  ;D

Joint and plane and cut joints in wood in the wee hours . . .    

Mill and trailer and stack wood through the day . . .

Glue, scrape, sand and finish wood in the evening . . .

and Love my wife and children any chance between.  :)

Wood and honest labor pays the bills--a "right livelihood" indeed!  8)  

I am a retired truck driver of 30 years. picked up a used Wood Mizer about 5 years ago to cut some lumber for my self. Well someone told someone I had a saw mill and well I have a new Wood Mizer HD comming at the end of June to keep up. So do not tell anyone you have a mill if you want to retire.

I have done caprnetry/remodeling and land developing for 18 years. For  three years I have been and currently I am a full-time college student. Currently doing carpentry work, managing timberland, sawmilling, and full-time college student online. I hope to get a B.S in Business Administration/Management and go onto a reputable business graduate college and get a MBA.  :P

LUKE

 I quit a good machine shop job in 99, to do logging fulltime. Its mostly timberstand improvement / thinning. With cordwood as a use for junk wood. 02 I bought a small mill to get some lumber out of some of the better sticks that came with the cordwood. I do some custom sawing, but most times I get woodchuck 55 to mill with his big portable mill.
 I also do maple sugaring.
 My wife works at Yankee Candle, so I can play  8).

I work for the NJ state park service, to support my sawdust habit.

I'm a fulltime tool & die finisher.I sit at a work bench sizing and polishing all manner of carbide, and steel tooling.
I've made tools for the, US Beaureau of Standards, early space shuttle ceramic tile, jelly life savers,and most pharmacutical companys.
I don't like to work with small things when I leave the shop.
I cut lumber as often as possible, I'll leave work early, but I won't miss a hunting trip.
I often refer this site to customers.
Carl

I have lived on a farm for my whole life, except when I was at college.  I have helped to raise hogs on a 500 sow farrow to grower operation, I have helped raise cattle on a 2000 head operation, I have helped raise goats for meat and milk, and I have helped raise horses.  I was a senior at Kansas State University majoring in Agricultural Education, with an emphasis in horticulture.  I currently am deployed with my National Guard unit to Iraq.  I also raise brome and alfalfa hay with a yearly output of around 10,000 tons.  I also have sold firewood from our large fencerows and woodlots to keep the deadwood down, and to keep the fencerows clean.  I have also built over 200 miles of barbed wire and high tensile fence with posts that I cut myself.  I have also worked construction doing roofing, vinyl siding, and pole barn construction.  I got the sawdust bug started with a Logosol mini mill, and got tired of the limited board production, and the large amount of waste that I generated.  I am going to buy a mill when I return to the states, and mill enough lumber for the farm, and I hope to start a custom milling business when I finish my degree.

Charles

This thread is very interesting, I love reading about how diversified our backgrounds are. My husband and I run a business selling medical equipment and supplies to clinics and hospitals. We bought our Wood Mizer when we bought our farm, back in 2001. Since then it has been a joy to cut our own lumber from trees we have harvested off the farm. We sell some wood, do some custom sawing, but for the most part it is for the sheer pleasure of cutting wood.  8)

I have made a living my entire working live working in a sawmill. I was hired in as a debarker operator and mechanic. I did not have a mechanics certification but I had an awesome letter of recommendation from Chrysler corporation for winning a competition you may remember hearing something about. Remember the Plymouth trouble shooting contests? I won in brakes and drive trains for my state when I was 17. Must have been a million years ago.

Anyways, that got me in the door but I soon leaned the only person making any decent money was #1 the owner followed by any body in the owners family and then the Sawyer. I started pestering to learn how to saw soon after and by the end of my first year had replaced the previous head sawyer because my production rates were 2 to his 1 and my quality was superior. I have been in the head sawyers seat off and on ever since. The off parts were spent during economic down times for the mill. During these times I worked in the woods running skidder, feller bunchers, total tree chippers, slashers and driving truck delivering logs and fire wood.

These days my income is split between the sawing and the computer work for many Michigan Timber product companies and associations and some other unrelated businesses..

I have just started a shop maintenance / Fabricator-Welder job at Craig Manufacturing (http://www.craig-mfg.com). I really enjoy this type of work as I had worked in a similar position a few years back at Marwood Ltd (http://www.marwoodltd.com/). There we made pressure treaded products such as handrail, ballusters, spindles, decking ect.. You may know it as Suntrellis Products.

I have worked other jobs, Auto glass installer, carpenter, just a general jack of all trades.I think I have found the job that I really want now doing maintenance and fabricating attachements for loaders, excavators, bulldozers, ect..

Link to Craig Manufacturing (http://www.craig-mfg.com).
Link to Marwood Ltd (http://www.marwoodltd.com/)

I got the milling bug working at Marwood (http://www.marwoodltd.com/) and still like the idea of milling lumber. Built one and sold it, still have the 3120xp, and plan to make another of some kind,... sometime...

  It looks like very few of us make a living sawing. >:(  Maybe it is the hard work and low pay for the investment.  I LOVE what I do and could take a job at a larger circle mill as Sawyer and make more.  Many seem to want to bust the clock and go out on their own.  It is tuff out here.   I see ads where you can buy this mill or that and take low grade logs and make high grade lumber.  Get rich by investing little and getting $6.00 a bdft for oak lumber.  Since band mills make small slabs and sawdust and have such a high overrun you will get rich.  Since swingers will produce 1,000 bdft an hour, you and a helper can out produce mills costing 5 times more.  I just read where you just have to saw 1,000 bdft a day and to make a living.
  If it was easy and you could get rich doing it, then every one would be doing it.  So many start up and fail before they even get out of the gate.   I would never take advice from any one about rasing childern who does not have grandkids.  There are those who just fall into it and live in an area where it is just money for the taking.  But for the most part it is just hard work, long hours, poor logs, machines that break at the wrong times and bad weather.  I really LOVE what I do.
ARKANSAWYER    

Quote It looks like very few of us make a living sawing. >:(  Maybe it is the hard work and low pay for the investment.  I LOVE what I do and could take a job at a larger circle mill as Sawyer and make more.  Many seem to want to bust the clock and go out on their own.  It is tuff out here.   I see ads where you can buy this mill or that and take low grade logs and make high grade lumber.  Get rich by investing little and getting $6.00 a bdft for oak lumber.  Since band mills make small slabs and sawdust and have such a high overrun you will get rich.  Since swingers will produce 1,000 bdft an hour, you and a helper can out produce mills costing 5 times more.  I just read where you just have to saw 1,000 bdft a day and to make a living.
  If it was easy and you could get rich doing it, then every one would be doing it.  So many start up and fail before they even get out of the gate.   I would never take advice from any one about rasing childern who does not have grandkids.  There are those who just fall into it and live in an area where it is just money for the taking.  But for the most part it is just hard work, long hours, poor logs, machines that break at the wrong times and bad weather.  I really LOVE what I do.
ARKANSAWYER    

I hear ya,  ;D ;D

Few years as a cabinet maker, 4 years with the USAF when we had that little skirmish in SE Asia, marina operator for a few years, Teamster working for Pepsi, part time farmer, and retired from the telephone company as Manager Outside Plant Engineering Design in 1999.  Whole string of little odd jobs since then.  Some wood related and some not.

Bought my manual mill in 1994 with the intention of sawing and drying grade lumber from my own timber.  That part has worked out great and I really enjoy it.   Had this vague idea in my head after I retired from the telephone company I would use the mill to generate extra income custom sawing.  Found out I don't like custom sawing at all so I keep my prices 10 to 15 cents bf higher than anybody else but I still get more than I want.  Got another vague idea in my head about a new mill, kiln, and a operation that minimizes board handling.  Don't know if I will ever get there or not but I am making progress..

I think Arky is in touch with reality.  I'm guessing the success ratio for somebody making a full time living with a portable sawmill is extremely low.

Arkansawyer;  I have 15 grands, does that mean you would take advice from me?  I don't think you would listen any better than my children.

I know there is a good number of FF members that run sawmills  that is their main or only source of income (along with sales of value added wood products from their mills).  They've not added their comments to the list.

My familly has been in the sawmill busines for over 50 years.
My dad has over 50 years of sawing experience and has sawn over 2,000,000 ties alone.My grandfather started the first 2 mills in the central interior of british columbia and it took off from there. After getting out of school it was of to logging camps for me and getting my trade as a excavator operator, building logging road for off high way trucks. My dad has always been an inventor. Built his own cement mixer out of a old washing machine, floor grinder out of a up right vacuum his own camper, travel trailer, and the list goes on. Some of his best inventions have come from the sawmill designs he has created. He spent some 15 years developing over 10 differnet designs and finally coming up with the design we currenly sell today. I came on board with him in 96 and we have been going strong ever since.We also had a sawing operation sawing cedar but had to let that go as we started to get so much demand for our sawmills we currently build. I spent some 30,000 hours in the seat of and excavator and enjoyed it ,but since I've got that sawdust in my blood it hard there is no going back. I really enjoy sawing as well as the manufacturing and the creation of my own ideas now in our plant. It is a great way to go.
doublecut

Whats a tie option doublecut

Work for the phone company. My current job is keeping the GPS units that track our service trucks running.. But one thing about my job is that about every two years I end up doing something else. I have worked on Mainframe front end processors, been a Novel Network Administrator, done remote maintenance on Frame Relay and IP Networks, done application programming, and maintained the computers in our remote garages.
Planning on retiring in  the fall of 2006 so  I wonder what I  will  be doing  next
By the way I have 6 grand children

Theirs nothing more in this world that I would love to do then to quit the shop and go full time with sawing and drying. But at $20.00 an hour and insurance, I'd be a fool to do that, even tho I have thought about it many times.
EZ

We make 100% of our families income from the woods. I dont "qualify" as a full time sawyer , though, since I dont run my mill every day. I am one of those "fools" EZ refered to ;D Started fooling with sawing in 2000 as a hobby, ended up quiting a very good paying full time job in 01 to .... spend as much time as I could raising my kids! We sell some veneer logs from horselogging, buy some logs from other loggers, saw and sell utilty lumber, kiln dry and sell grade lumber, produce hardwood flooring, glue up stair treads and risers, sell a lot of bundled firewood, and sell some silt fence stakes. All of this is done with family labor working together. I made more money by April of each year than I ever have in a year of wood sales, but I spend more time with my family than I ever could in a year at my old job. I enjoy making things from the wood we harvest,but that is just the secondary issue to the joy I get from working at home.We have lots of tough days with machines and weather and stuff, but I am able to help my boys, that will one day be men who will have families to raise, learn the realities of life as a man.This last week we produced and delivered 2000 sq ft of red oak flooring, wrapped and delivered 410 firewood bundles, and loaded the kiln with 3000 feet of a customers air dried lumber to be run a s a floor. I have not run my saw since last saturday, when I sawed and sold 430 bft of white oak stall lumber to a local horse owner. That is typical for us this time of year, and we stay very busy. Machines give us grief and something always needs to be sharpened , greased or have its oil changed >:(But so far we have managed to keep a little of the money that comes in here before it runs back out! So.. How do I really make a living? ... By working on having a strong family! ;D

Here I was seriously considering getting me a mill and doing it pretty much full time. But this thread has got me to having second thoughts. Are there really that few people doing this full time or are they too busy to play on this electronic box?
 Stevie

Stevie
Be thankful that your eyes have been opened a bit wider by the 'reality' show you have been reading about. Now you have more information to make that important decision.
I'd get a mill in a heartbeat, if it was just about putting that saw blade through the log and making the decisions where to cut and when to turn. Its the reality of having the lumber pile up (needs to be stickered, dried, sold, whatever) and the slabs pile up, and the yard cleaned up, and the blades sharpened that keeps me hesitating.  ;D
I very much enjoy reading about the experiences of others, and appreciate how hard they work and all the decisions that they make to keep the mill working.  (I also enjoy 'playing' on this electronic box).  :)

I guess I had better add my 2 cents.  I work for a large resort hotel that used to be a mobil 5 star destination that has been degraded to a 4 star.  I work as a waiter and I know what grits are :)  I started sawing on an old manual woodmizer in 96 and upgraded (bought another with hydraulics) in 2001.  I do almost all mobile sawing from 200 bd ft to 50,000 bd ft.  I have never charged a setup or minimum charge and most of my customers are repeats.  I like meeting new families and everyone that I have sawed for has become friends.  I have never advertised and am usually about 6 weeks booked in advance.  In my area there are probably 25 band mills in a 30 mile radius.  One of my associates makes a pretty good living with his mill,  I even send him customers if the job is too big or the customer is in a hurry.  I usually cut two days a week (my off days) doing mobile sawing and if anyone brings me logs or I cut some, I will saw those between shifts at my home on the manual mill.  I would love to go full time but I have good insurence at my regular job and many other benefits that I would hate to lose.  Other than working as a waiter for 30 years, I have been a shipfitter, a house builder, a chimney sweep and a laborer in a limestone quarry.  I also make custom cabinets in the little spare time that I have.  
And finally I have one grandson if Arky would like some advice. :D
David

 I work as a county Ranger with the Arkansas Forestry Commission . I been doing it for 28 years . We do more than I can write here so here is the web site /http://www.forestry.state.ar.us/ I been doing almost all mobile sawing on weekends the last three years. I help landowners manage there treefarms during the week and cut em up on weekends :D If you go to Clark county on the web site you will see my pic. ::)

RMay,
I wish we had a ranger/forester like you in our neighborhood.  I haven't seen a State Forester for years except for one that wanted his cherry log sawed.  Haven't heard from one in years either except the new county forester called me about 3 months ago to ask if I still owned the property.

Both grandfathers had sawmills that provided 100% family living. Both mills founded in late 1940's.
Worked for grandfather on fathers side while growing up and shortly after graduating from HS in 1971. Mill burned in 1976 and was not re-built.
Went to work for uncle on mothers side shortly after graduating from high school in 1971. (Mother's side grandfather had already retired)
At this time, mill was cutting 15 to 20m per day.
By 1980's, the operation grew to cut 42 million Bf annually in all northern species. Mill site had a small log side and grade side. 5 Kiln capacity of 300,000 Bf, planers, etc.
80 to 100 employees, single shift operation.
I have performed duties in all aspects of sawmill operation, including supervision and sales.
In late 1990's into 2000's, I spent 6 years co-managing and handling the sales for company dimension plant making edge glued panels.
Currently back at sawmill site now for 2+ years.

MIll has recently had some dificulties, and I have been voluntarily laid off since early March. Mill is scheduled to resume operations in July. I will handle sales and co-manage.

For a long time, now, I have had this vision to set up thin kerf sawing operation cutting grade hardwood logs. Goes way beyond having a single portable saw of choice. Being laid off gave me the time and opportunity to do some research :P, talk to sawmill manufacturers :-/, talk to people :), visit mills :-X, crunch numbers :'(, etc.
It is looking positive, but I still have work to do. (crunch more numbers, and more, and more, :'( :'( :'()
I am always searching for information and input.

My wife is a school teacher. I have an 11 year old son. (future helper)

Creating this thread was part of researching my project, as were my previous threads. I hope you all don't feel I took advantage of you, but I had to know "how you really made your living".

I think it was fun reading of all your backgrounds, as I am sure you did as well. Seems most all of us have the same dream or goal. To own a mill and cut full time. Good luck to all of you and thanks for sharing.

With kindest regards,
ppeterson

My day job is computer stuff, desktop and small network install and maintainance mostly, but at least I'm my own boss there now.
I grew up on a farm, recently owned a share in one, and still have friends with land (and trees). I enjoy getting out and cutting trees and I realised we were slicing a lot of nice wood up into firewood, so a small and very portable mill seemed the best option  8)
It's my sanity check after a week in front of a computer screen.  ;)

Ian

My day job is in computers for a non-profit education group.  I mostly do web and database programming, etc.  

I've been around woodworking, most of my life.  My father's reirement job was as a cabinet and furniture maker until he had by-pass surgery.  Then, me and my brother-in-law took that over.  He still helps (need a boss  ;) )

I do this part-time, although I often work full-time hours.  I got tired of the quality and availablility of local lumber, so I bought a used LT30.  That didn't last long and recently bought a LT40HD.  Seems like this is growing much faster than we can keep up.  If our gov't would ever do anything about ridiculous insurance costs, I'd quit in a heartbeat.
    

   This was a good Thread.  There are lots of people with mills with out a computer.  I have a friend who lives just 5 miles from me and he does full time sawing.  He stays at home and the logs come to him.  I stay mostly on the road and we send each other customers and help each other out on large orders.  There is another sawmill about 10 miles from here and he is retired Marine and is working at everything but sawing most of the time.  He does not need to make any money so just piddles mostly.   Several start up every year to put me out of business but most are back at Ranger Boats in a few months.  Dave lives up at Ava MO. and saws on a swinger for other sawmills and cuts up their "big and uglys".  He is retired and just does a mbdft and goes home when ready.
  It can be done but it is hard work and good business sense.  There is no health insurance or promise of a steady check.  You have a boss and they change about every day.  The "Bad Mouth" will kill you if your work is not good or fair.  It is good to go in with your eyes wide open.
  I have 3 of 5 kids out of the house and 1 granddaughter so far.  I've sawn millions of bdft on circle and bands and killed my share of trees.  If there is one thing I know for sure here in the land where steel and wood collide is you have got to love it or it will leave a bad taste in your mouth.  If I had the coin I would saw for free just so I could look inside and see what God has made.  They are all different in some way and it is nice to see them live again.
ARKANSAWYER
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/DSC00653f.JPG)

You are so correct, Arkansawer about opening up a log.  Each and every one is a delight to see what is coming with the next saw cut.  

   As to the actual sawing every day, I could be doing that if I wished, or really had to go 8 plus hours a day.   I would for sure change my whole approach to marketing etc.  I would have a much large budget for advertising, I would spend some money.   Whereas now, I spend nothing on either marketing lumber or my services.  This is a major issue for some of us even in a part time mode of operaion.  I have spent some $ in the local fish wrappers, farm papers and nickle ads and received only one call. I believe what it takes is a continues promotion in such venues to let people know that you are serious and not just a "flash in the pan".  I would also, get very serious about learning to use the puter to a better advantage. :D

QuoteWhereas now, I spend nothing on either marketing lumber or my services.  This is a major issue for some of us even in a part time mode of operaion.  I have spent some $ in the local fish wrappers, farm papers and nickle ads and received only one call. I believe what it takes is a continues promotion in such venues to let people know that you are serious and not just a "flash in the pan".

Hi Frank,
Do you know anyone at the local newspaper? Is there any way to get a "feature" story written about you and what you do (hopefully with pics)? It sure would be a cheap way to "get the word out."

I'm a mechanical engineer, I work 30 hrs a week by choice so I have free time.  I have worked on farms, and currently own a small one with no animals.  I have also worked as a pipe fitter and mechanic, delivery driver and as a labourer in a fruit and vegtable warehouse.

I'd like to run the mill I'm building about one day a week if someone would pay me!
Ken

Say Frank, how about talking to the Capital Press in Salem.

I have been a carpenter in the construction industry for 31 years.  

I grew up on a farm. in central Pa. Was going to farm.But land to farm was hard to find.Went to work for a builder for 2 weeks ,ended up 2 years learned plumbing,electrical, masonary,& carpentery.
Also cabnet making. Got married went to Fla. for a year in church work (day care for field workers).Came home Dad & I started building barns & pole sheds.Houses over winter.In the early 80's when intrest rates went up, work went down. Moved to Md. Sub to a builder who works on high end houses.Also wanting to get into making caskets ( 2 so far ) Can get free trees, so built a band saw mill to saw my oun lumber ( get tired of paying top $ for junk wood.
I better stop you didn't ask for a book. ;D ;D ;D

Don't stop Hiya, it's just getting interesting.

For the last while I think I've been in the equipment repair business rather than the wood chopping business, with all the breakdowns I've had.

I don't make a living, I just play around a lot. ;) I saw some on a WM Super. 8) I have 60 beef cows, I do a little custom livestock hauling,I custom roll bale hay for a few neighbors and I build furnitue. For 15 years I made a living raising swine and cattle.
Every thing I own is paid for and my 4 children are grown.My wife has a job in town so their is no need for me to make a living any more. I am not old enough to retire so I just quit.  ;D   Isin't life good. 8)
Bob the quitter

This is very interesting to read , I have been a commercial pilot, over the road trucker , musician in a country/rock/bluegrass band, log cabin builder but failed, through it all I have always had a love for sawdust and finally got the old circular mill working great , its not full time but a great sideline . I make and sell arts and crafts to a company called "sportys" in batavia,oh. going on my 5th year and that is also a sideline , custom baling once in awhile, other than that its green acres all the way here on the farm , I thank my parents for buying this farm 35 years ago because I could never afford it at todays climbing land prices .

I worked at a sawmill in my teens running a debarker and
at a plywood plant shovelling chips from under the chip
mill.  Spent 11 years in the Coast Guard.  Worked as a
boat mechanic for a couple of years including working
for Md DNR Marine Police as a mechanic.  I work at a
university in Md as a maintenance mechanic right now.
I'm finishing up a timber frame home and am trying to
get a timber frame business going.  I have a WM LT 30
that I haven't been able to use as much as I'd like to.

OK ever one this is a good time to fill in & update the member biography on your profile  ;D

We're full time.  Everyone (especially me) seems to like hearing about what equipment the others use, so here goes.

Wood Mizer LT40
Wood Mizer Edger

Hardy forestry trailer
Igland skid winch
ICS dry kiln (5 mbf)

Shop built log deck
Shop built green chain

A couple of Belgian horses for skidding  (Maggie & Amos)

Three full time employees, plus myself and a part time book keeper.

All in all, after 15 years in the business, I still learn something every day.  By far, the best part of what I do is meeting the people.  We just laugh at how interesting the people are, and how diverse their backgrounds and occupations are.

We manufacture and sell just shy of a half million feet per year, mostly in small quantities.  Products are pretty limited to hardwood lumber and white cedar.

It is great to see all the folks here, and slip in once in a while to see how everyone's making out.

Best of luck to all...

Geoff

Bruce, I have tried the Press more than once.  It ran me around $40 for three weeks and got no calls.  I reckon I have to keep theblasted ad in there for than three weeks at a time and perhaps some farm folks will eventually see the ad. :D

I'm a metrologist at a LARGE pharmaceutical company. ( I calibrate the test equipment that Oakiemac uses ;D) I'm about 24 weeks from retiring and going fulltime in wood.Ive had my LT40 for a couple of years. I have just about got to the point that my knees don't knock when I open a nice log.
I too love the mystery of each cut, to see what beauty is hidden in that wood.
Yep its hard, long days, but I sleep better when I run the mill than when I set through a meeting all day. I have sawn for some real charachters so far and I have really enjoyed the interaction.... but I imagine I will need to buy logs and saw grade like most every body else around here just to make ends meet.
It was nice finding out what the rest youse guys are doin.

I turn loggs into lumber ....

You mean there are other ways to make money?

Woody

I'm new to the forum and new to sawing. I'm semiretired and just started sawing but hope to do it as a part time business. I own a cabin in Conover and am building another. We decided to get a mill instead of buying the lumber and hopefuly get enough work to have a part time business.

I work fulltime in a radiological chemistry lab (nuclear stuff). We have an 80 acre farm where we raise feeder calves and have a few cow/calf pairs. I am a member of the American Angus Assoc. and would like to build a herd of registered cattle. My wife and 15 yr old son do most of the farm work since I get on the sawmill right after I get home from work ::). We started out cutting lumber for our house but have enjoyed cutting so much that we are looking into doing more of it. I have told my wife about Bibbyman's wife running the mill while he is at work, she is not so sure she could do it with a manual mill :(. I have been able to rescue several trees from being cut up for fire wood and have considered following Kyle and Scott's example and do "tree-cycling". Have enjoyed reading what you guys do and this whole forum. I have been one of those guests for awhile, but I decided to join in. ;) Thanks Jeff

Wecome TN_man

So you decided to jump off the fence, huh?

 ;)

Chisel and Bruce, as far as the self promotion idea of a feature, I do not like tooting my own horn in that manner)
the Capital Press did one on me another fella a few years ago.  I got lots of verbal coverage, but the picutures they took did not show up in the paper.  The other fella got all that coverage.  :'(   Perhaps it is time for another "feature". 8)

I'm glad I saw this thread!  After visiting the pig roast, I became much more interested in knowing more about the people here on the forum.  As for me, I'm a musician--my job is playing trombone in the Grand Rapids Symphony.  I'm also an adjunct member of the faculty at Western Michigan University where I play in their faculty brass quintet.  I do some teaching here at home as well as at Hope College.  I taught at Michigan State for a year and a half, and decided that being in an orchestra is too much fun to stop know.  I really enjoy it, and it's the fulfillment of a life long dream.  Woodworking is just another outlet for creativity and is strictly a hobby right now.  I hope to eventually become skilled enough to do some custom work, but for now, if I can mill my own wood, and build my own furniture and cabinets, I'll be a happy camper!

Dan M.

My Father and I own a hardwood business together.. We don't own a sawmill but we do have a molder, slr, gang rip, chop line and planers ect.... We mostly process components for the cabinet industry.. We also make hardwood flooring and moldings..  I always feel like I'm on the verge of making alot of money but we just make a decent living for the most part.. A new vacuum kiln from Dennis at PC Specailties is our newest adventure.. We're in the process of hooking everything up..

I don't post very much but I check into the FF daily to see what the new topics are.. It's interesting how many of you guys saw part time.  This wood business is addictive.. We started out a few years ago with the idea of making frame stock for cabinet shops.. We figured a 4 head molder and a slr should do it  (yeah right).. We ended up with a small factory..

It's good to meet you guys,
Steve
Blakeman Hardwood Mouldings, Inc.

Like wise good to hear from ya!!

Hey Guys! I am retired Navy, Work full time at a golf course, have regular bush hog customers, cut cedar logs and have them cut into boards. Do a little oak also. Don't own a mill yet, believe I could treat people right and do a good job at it and enjoy doing it. Live on 150 acre's on north side of lake Charles, near Powhatan, AR. Need something, drop a line. Charles

Well, I just now discovered this thread and enjoyed my 20 minutes reading about everyone.

Sorry to dissappoint ppete, but not only do I not make my living sawing, I do not even own a saw!

Day job: sales. Started an urban log reclamation business this year with one full time driver and I subcontract the sawing. It is mostly a log business; the small percentage we decide to saw keeps me out of my shop (woodworking hobby got me to this point). Been slingin' around a lot of boards though.

this is a cool thread.
i notice a few of us are/were farmers at some point. thats what i do up here in senic northern new york. farmin is a way of life for me, not only a job.
up before the birds in the morning, usually to work on an otherwise sweaty afternoon job, like throwing hay, stacking and rolling logs for the saw or firewood, picking rocks, ect.
then its off to milk my brothers 42 holstiens, one jersey, and one ashiyre.
the rest of the day is mine, i make most of the household income from corn and soybeans. studied crop science at SUNY cobelskill for a few years and went on as a full time crop scout and assistant agronimist at agway, but the family farm got in the way, and agway was going belly up anyway, so here i am working for the cows and the corn.  after our feilds are in, i am usually taking care of other farmers tillage needs. then we custom combine in the fall.
work on all the equipment, keeping it in good running order.
allthough it seems the feilds get bigger as the days get shorter, i do manage to keep the sawmill running thru logs on a weekly basis. hoping to find more time to run it thru farm efficency, hired labor, and better convienientces. i do my own logging, for the saw and heat. have about 50 acres of old timber, and many miles of hedgerows that will give way to bigger feilds.
at the moment im cutting lumber for a heifer facility, my new cabin in the hemlock hollow, and the handiest goat barn to finally come off my drafting table.

I am 1/2 owner of a four bay auto repair garage. Been fixin cars and pick-ups for 24 years ( golly-gee, I don't feel that old!). Started sawing with my Norwood in may of this year. My wife and I will be building a house with our own wood in a few years.
 I got a saw mill becouse I have twenty acres of red pines that I could not give away. So we will build our garage with the red pine and use hemlock and hardwoods from the other forty acres to build the house. Notice that I wrote more about sawing than wrenching, thats 'cause I like sawing more. 8)
Moosehunter.

Welcome Jeep....  Nice to meet a neighbor here...  

hey moose, yer usin hemlock fer sidin, right?
i cut mine in adirondack fashon, left the bark on and its still on after two years. if you can get it down and milled real quick.... ;D

Hello Scott. You're pretty close by. How are you doing millin around here?  Drop me a line sometime. Charles

Actually, I'm just a wannabe at this point.  ;D  I don't own a mill even... I'm just here watchin' and learnin' for the time being.   I do believe there is a market as I do see lumber advertised in the local papers and I see a mill for sale every now and then.    


If/when I get a mill, it'll most likely be for my own enjoyment/lumber.  Swingblade most likely...  

Interesting thread.  I was raised on a farm (cow-calf), still have part interest in it.  Formal training as a biologist/ecologist.  Couldn't stand urban living, so moved to foothills of Sierra Nevadas and started my wife's business (Veterinary Hospital) 20 years ago.  Have worked consulting on development projects but no longer, teach horticulture part time at community college.  Have always wanted to mill lumber - live in mixed conifer zone - 5 different conifers 3-4 different hardwoods.  Have always hated to see all the local oak cut into firewood, and want to use the small diameter conifers that the local forests are choked with.  Am setting up a small circle mill for my own entertainment and to feed my minor woodworking addiction.  Hope to have it going by next year.  Also want to get a forestry program going for local people, to manage our forests better than they are currently, and develop the local economy.
Ray

I'm not sure why my husband Kevin didn't post here but here is his story:

Bought a WM Lt25 as a hobby.  Had that for two years and sawed for friends.  Then traded for a  WM LT40 Super because he knew he would be laid off from his engineering position at JDS Uniphase.

Turned his hobby into a full time business.  Sawed full time for two years.  Broke a lot of peavey handles and reengineered the tool.  The new tool took off and LogRite came to be.  Now he tries to balance both sawing and selling/manufacturing tools.

Logrite girl,
I saw the logrite cant hook at the roast and I was impressed. In the near future, I'll be buying one especially since I didn't win the one at the roast. >:( ;D

red,
 I will be using the hemlock for lots of stuff, but not siding. The only wood we will be buying for the house is treated logs 'couse the Mrs wants a log home. If she wants a log home, then I want a log home too!! Life is easier when the  better half is happy.

maintenance electrician by day in industrial plant
doing the sawmill thing on weekends and other days off
slowly collecting support equipment


 

Mechanical engineer by education, have a machine shop, fab shop, a wood shop and now a portable mill.

The engineer portion designs machines or portions of machinery on a contract basis.  It also structurally analyzes new products for potential structural failures and performs stress analysis on existing equipment that is experiencing premature failures.

The fab shop specializes in nickel alloy fabrications for gas processing equipment.

The machine shop machines stuff.

The wood shop builds store displays and specialty tables for the electronic test industry.

The sawmill portion is being financially supported by the other portions.  The goal is to make it profitable.  We'll see in six months...

Hey Gilman, our shops are kinda like mirror images of each other . . .

I makin' money with my sawmill and then spending it to build up fab and metal milling equipment to maintain/modify the sawmill and support equipment.

I may be gettin' a bunch o' metal workin' gear as a friend of mine who's student teaching metal at Carbondale will be moving back with his forge, hammers, rollers etc. and wants to rent 900 sqft o' space in my new building.  :)

Just don't get your metal working equipment like I did.  A defunct partnership that took me four years to pay off.

I think the co-op shops can work out well.  Another machinist with a large CNC and I have looked into renting one large building and then splitting it up.  If we did, we decided to assign rental rates for each other's equipment, put a clip board on each machine and just note how much time was used and then settle at the end of the month.  We didn't want things like breaking the other person's blades to start irritating each other.  We still haven't found a building, but have came close a few times.

Now I need an even bigger building to store lumber in 8)

I really like the diversity, I don't think it is a very good business model for most people though. I have a hard time finding people that can work in all areas, thus training is hard.  Each division might sit idle for up to two months.

I did not make much of a living to day, at all.  Even the one customer that was to show for sawdust bugged out on me until tomorrow afternoon.  They did not even call to let me know they would not show as planned.  I waited all afternoon and I finally call sat 7:30. >:(  They only owe me $256 for what they have already hauled off.

I'm an ASTRONAUT.   Maybe not.............

First things first, Thank You to everyone here. I think I've read just about every post & I have learned alot. I hope I can apply some of your teachings.

I grew up on a Shade Tobacco farm in N Fl. Still live there now. My Dad has cattle her now. While I was in high school I took a welding class in Tallahassee, completed the class, passed the certifcation test & didn't strike an arc for 10 years. I spent 10 years at a big printing company printing business cards and stationary for Furtune 500 Companies. Probably printed some of your cards.

As for making a living,  

   I own a Lawn Service. I work alone most of the time. I've been in business since 1992 & about '94 I bought a Stump Grinder & a 394 Husqvarna. A couple of years later a little New Holland 4X4 with a frontend loader. Now this is where Y'all come in.

Everytime I go to a stump grinding job there's a good log or two the customer needs me to haul off. I also do some clean-up for a tree surgeon. All this plus the timber  on our farm equals saw mill.

I've been picking up scrape iron & junk for years, taken down 10 or 12 satilite dishes for $50-$60 each.Then 1 day it all came to me in a flash. I knew about an abandaned carwash. The owner payed me for removing it & I had enough material to start my building my mill. I'll get some pics in a day or 2.

I tore down 3 towers of a pivot irrigation system. Each tower had 2 20ft H-beams, a reduction gearbox & other bits & pieces.

Once again thanks for all the laughs, technology and pure BS you guys put out. Now that I've come out I'll do my best to help anyone in need.

Be back later, I gotta go dumpster shopping before daylite.

I am a geologist by education. Worked 7 years as an electical logging engineer for an oil well service company. Quit in 76, taught school for 4 years while developing a custom hay baling operation. Bought a WM in 83 and started custom sawing on the side. Started sawing a bit of cedar. A company asked me to saw a lot of cedar. About 88 or 89 I hired a couple of helpers to saw more cedar. In 92 we built a mill and I hired more people. About this time I gave up the baling operation and did nothing but saw cedar. In 98 my oldest son graduated from college and an opprtunity came to open a mill in Alabama. He runs that mill and does better than me.  But we both have several employees.

I love being an entrepreneur and expanding the operation. As a one man operator I always looked at the grass on the other side of the fence, there was just too much to do for one person.
I have thought also how nice it would be to go back to being a one man show, less stress, maybe more time. I missed the pigroast because of too many goings on.
It is not how much wood you saw in a day, its how happy you are the next morning when you get up.
Most of you know that it takes tremendous amount of education and experience to be a successful mill owner of any size.

I spent 30 years as an IT consultant.  Problem fixer at the top of the heap for the last 15 years.  Problem with this is living away from family for 90% for your time normally in another country so I cant just pop home on weekends.

4 years ago we bought a farm in Australia and an EcoSaw.  Built the house and cut lots of wood both off our land and contracting to other landowners to mill their logs as well.

Last Christmas we sold the mill and bought the EcoSaw company.  Now we manufacture the EcoSaw mills as well as mill logs to test each mill before despatching to the buyers.

As owners of EcoSaw I know most of the contractors who own EcoSaws and their is very good money available in both sustainable forestry and salvage work.  Most contractors have paid for their mills in the first few months.

I dont do as much milling as I would like to do due to  developing new and improved models.  maybe next year.  

Nothing better than making your own wood products from wood you have milled yourself.