Hello guys and gals.
I am Joe and live in SW Washington. I am finally going to pull the trigger on a chainsaw. We have 1.5 acres that beside a mediocre back yard is primarily wooded. It is moderately wooded. With my son getting closer to the age of outdoor domination, the wife and I really want to clear more of the property.
The trees are (so I am told) Douglas Firs that most are 50+ft tall. The ones I intend on felling myself are up to 20" in diameter. Any more than that I will bring in a crew to do it. I will be felling, limbing and bucking the lumber.
I am hoping to get input from the forum to help make a decision on two of the main items: Chainsaw and the chaps.
I used the Stihl website to determine what saw I should get. Well the selections really point you one way or the other without the option to really match what you are actually using the saw for.
So here is the saw will be facing:
Usage: 2-3 times a month for 2-3 days at a time (about 12-15 hour days) Spring/Summer minimal winter for downed trees/branches.
Size: up to 20" diameter; 50ft+ tall
Recommended saw from Stihl site based on inputs: MS-211-C-BE. I am wondering if I should step up to a Farm Boss saw though. Though it appears the Farm Boss 290 is no longer available.
The only reason I prefer Stihl is dealer/service is local and they have some of the manufacturing locally in Oregon.
Thank you in advance for your input and advice.
-Terracar
Terracar,welcome to the forum.
I myself would go to the dealer you mentioned and say what you just posted, Chaps and all. He'll want to set you up with a hard hat unit too. Or I hope he does. That will be hard hard,face shield and ear muffs. If you don't seem to like them,find another dealer. Dealer support is VERY handy. Buy your saw from a dealer and he will be there when you need him. Steel boots are good to have too. Wedges you will need too. If never cut trees,classes or someone that knows what they are doing should really be your first and most important thing. People have got hurt,just beacuse they have no idea. And some have got hurt and killed because they knew what they was doing too.
What's all the trees going to be used for?
Just checked online and I see the MS211 is a mighty 35 cc beast. Now I'm sure it would be able to gnaw though a 20" fir tree eventually, but it would be a bit frustrating, and you would need to make cuts from both sides of the log a lot of the time.
I'd suggest going up to the Farmboss range. MS291 or 311, 55 / 60cc, able to run a 20" bar etc and good reliable saws.
Like Cfarm says, do you know anyone that can give you some practical instruction. The trees you have sound straight forward enough to handle, as long as you know what you are doing. :)
Also, get a basic sharpening kit with the saw (file and guide), and get the dealer to show you how it works. Doesn't matter how good the saw you buy is, once the chain gets dull, it's useless. And being a beginner, it's likely you will get the bar in the dirt, and dull it quickly. ;) This isn't a problem, as long as you can sit down, take a breather, and sharpen in 5 minutes.
Ian
Ian
Thanks for the input guys.
In terms of the wood, I use it for bartering with my friends for services I cannot perform or am too lazy to do. So for roughly $500 in services to fell 3 40" diameter 65ft tree I was able to barter the wood for about $2k in repair work from a friend who is a GC.
I have some additional projects for him and some electrician buddys, so a way I can reduce the cost is having wood at the ready.
Yeah I already have the list of things I need/want, I did not want to clutter up the post with them though.
In terms of practical instruction, yes most of my friends are experienced in felling and cut/buck/split 3+ cords on average for winter season. I typically help load the rounds and split on occasion.
Here is my list currently:
Chainsaw
Protective chaps/apron (9layer)
Gloves
Hardhat/faceguard/ear protection (Forestry all-in-one)
Bar oil
wedges
Cant hook or Peavey (optional) - Figure will make moving the logs/rounds a bit easier.
My understanding is for boots that it is a steel-toed boot. Is this correct? As in nothing special?
-Terracar
You can get boots with cut resistant material in them as well. If you are planning to buy new boots anyway I'd take a look at these. When I get another new pair of boots they will have this. BTW, if you are not used to it, days out cutting can get really long really fast. You mention 12+ hr days. Don't push it, that's when bad things happen and people get hurt.
I agree with John I log full time and work 6 or 7 hour days and am plenty tired after that most of the close calls I have had is when I'm pushing extra hard and try to get in a few more hours
You'll need way more saw than the 211. I would think that you would want something at least 50cc. I've run my Dad's Farm Boss a few times. I was not impressed. I think you could more bang for your buck out of Echo or Dolmar, for example. Whatever you buy, make sure you have a good dealer. Just because they sell saws does not make them a dealer.
Try not to buy too big of saw either. A saw that weighs 3lbs more at the start of the day weighs about 100lbs more by lunch. It was mentioned above that when you are tired, you are more likely to get injured.
A lot of guys wear chaps but I actually prefer the protective pants. I primarily work in cedar and it is very brushy. It seems like the branches hook on the chap straps. I find it annoying and a little more dangerous.
Good luck with your project!
Geoff
I moved to northeast Cal about 5 years ago(had cut firewood commercially in the past), bought 2 50cc homeowner saws with 20 inch bars. They worked great(both Huskys) until last year I started cutting wood for sale again. I gave one of those saws to my son and bought a 60cc saw and a 85 cc saw. I use my 450 Husky for limbing now. I would get at least a 60 cc saw for the size of wood you intend to cut. In fact I would buy a 50cc saw as a back up. Lol never go into the woods without a second saw. ED
MS261 end of story. It costs more, but it's the type of saw that you can hand down to your son, and maybe even his son. That's the way I look at tools anyway, sure a farm boss will do the job, but not as well or as long.
I'm with Andy77, go with a 261cm...18" or 20" .325 should handle that softwood plenty good enough. No need to worry about tuning the carb with the Mtronic.
I third the 261, but also suggest getting a 180. I know you're just talking an acre and a half, but I wouldn't want less. Don't jerk on the saw when you get one hung up.
Personally I would look for a Dolmar/Makita, or a Husky, definitely 60-70cc range, that way if you want to CSM it is doable, and you can gear up in CC to do more of that or go for a band mill. Besides the PPE, I would get a good axe, and a wedge pouch/belt to carry as a kit bag when you are out cutting, felling. Welcome to the FF!
Hello and welcome Terracar,
contrary to many recommendations made up to now the facts stay the same you DON'T need a pro saw! All these recommendations are totally out of reality with your profile. For cutting a few times per year who cares if you happen to need a few seconds longer in a cut!? A sharp chain will make more difference than the saw model! For the money saved compared to a pro saw you can buy a lot of stuff and be already way ahead cutting a bunch of wood.
What do I believe will be that you need?
Well a saw in the 40-50 cc range will be more than sufficient.
What would I recommend?
Any name brand out there. Top of my list would be a Dolmar 421(built like a pro saw made for the homeowner, only 42 cc but behaves like 50!) then a Stihl 251/271, Husqvarna 445/450, Mc Culloch PP5020(best deal out there at the moment by far if the prices are still under 2 bills!), etc.
There is very little that can go wrong if you stay with the name brands and a correctly set carb. Name brands would be Dolmar=Makita, Echo=Shindaiwa, Efco=Oleo Mac, Husqvarna=Jonsered=Mc Culloch=Partner, Tanaka=Hitachi, Solo and Stihl.
So there is a lot of great gear at great prices out there.
For chaps Labonville gets very high praises as far as I have read and the price is supposed to be right.
Good luck!
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I have a 211 and as much as I like it it is too small a saw for me here , and am hunting a 60 cc saw . I don't cut a lot or often but when I do it seems hard on the 211 . Broke the clutch bearing and it spit bits out and has damaged the plastic body at the oiler . I like the saw just not up to bigger stuff . Red
I'm just up I-5 from ya
A good 50 cc saw will do the trick for ya
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34433/002.jpg)
The one pictured above runs a 18" 3/8's b/c
I can't offer any better advice on saws. One thing I can say. Don't know if 12 to 15 hour days are possible. It's pretty hard work. Drink what you think is enough fluids and then somemore.
There are some good videos on youtube from Canada about falling timber. Actually used in chainsaw training but for the life of me right now I can't remember the name. Also search back on this topic in chainsaws and some excellent diagrams were posted about a couple of months back.
Joe to Joe:
Hi!
:laugh:
I would 2nd what 7sleeper has suggested.To be more precise a MS250 would do very nicely.
Joe
Thank you everyone for the input.
I think I will re-evaluate my needs based on the feedback.
Excellent points brought up about the length of work time and the potential for mishaps. I am thinking in terms of me loading the rounds... and I can certainly see how the saw work is more safety critical.
Also good point about chaps vs full pants and brush. My property has a large amount of brush, though I intend on clearing it before the tree is downed.
I think tonight I will walk the property to reassess the average size of the trees. I know the ones I am chomping at the bit to down are on the 15-20" side, but I figure those will still have to wait until I am comfortable with the saw and my abilities.
Anyone in WA/OR that knows the Dolmar dealers? I went to their Dealer locator and then to the dealer sites and it appears that none even mention Dolmar or Makita. Is Dolmar a newer brand? Lesser know or? I figure I will give them a call at lunch to get some input on Dolmar. Based on the information on the website they appear to be a robust saw. Though from me, that holes about as much water as a sieve.
-Terracar
Take a drive up to Madsens in Centralia/Chehalis. They'll have everything you need, top to bottom. If you go there and tell them what you have planned they can outfit you and they won't try to sell you a bunch of crap you don't need.
They have every Husky and Stihl saw that's made on display and they're available to try out before you buy. Madsen's is also a servicing dealer if you need parts or repairs. The pros shop there.
The Dolmar saws are okay but there's not much dealer support for them on the left coast.
Your list of stuff is good but don't forget a bottle of rubbing alcohol to clean the pitch off . :D
Sachs Dolmar has been making saws almost as long as Stihl, they have were bought by Makita of Japan, but I think the saws are still made in Germany, some of the models are Makita, some are Dolmar. They are very good saws, and you dont pay the name brand "penalty", like you do when you buy a new Stihl (just my view on the subject). I live in NW Oregon, I have done a lot of logging on my own tree farm here, and as a full time pro logger in Northern Wisc, UP Mich. I would not use a saw smaller than 50cc, I like the 70CC saws with compression release, easier starting, and even though your target trees are 15-20" a little longer bar saves the back, as in you dont have to bend over as much. I would get a saw that can wield a 24" bar with authority, and outfit it with full skip chizel tooth chain of your choice. Baileys sells Makita/Dolmar, as well as farm/Ranch Husky through the mail, at least you can look on their website and compare saw specs, model to model. Another personal preference, is though I have bought new saws in the past, I prefer to look for used saws, as I can fix them myself, and it opens up the options for what saws I want to target vastly, as there are tons of really good used saws out there, for way cheap. If you want to learn how to fix one, check out your local CL for chainsaws, and see what there is in your area, might get a good saw for very little $$, and if you don't like it, you can alwasy spend the $$ on a new one. Echo is another manufacturer of good saws that should not be overlooked, IMO.
Good luck, and work safe. Always wear a good hardhat in the woods!
Welcome to the Forum!
Dolmar was a German company & has been around since 1927. In 1991 IIRC, they were bought out by Makita. They make a good saw, just not a lot of name recognition in the states although that is slowly changing.
I would get a saw in the 50-60cc range for the felling / bucking & look for a running used 35-45cc with a 14" bar for limbing & as a back up. Being relatively new, is highly likely you will pinch your saw & would benefit by having the 2nd saw to cut it free. Even those of us who have been cutting for years will occasionally read a tree wrong, be tired & just a little too slow in removing a saw from a cut while bucking, ..., and pinch a saw.
For your second saw look for an older saw that runs. They will typically be around $50-75. If possible, remove the muffler & using a flashlight, look at the cylinder wall / piston for scoring while slowly pulling the starting cord. Compression between 130 & 15o psi is what you are looking for. Higher would be better but not likely to be found in an unmodified saw.
If working on your 1.5 acre land is the only cutting you intend to do, you will run out to trees to cut long before you would wear out a homeowner's saw. You don't even have to buy a new saw. There are a lot of older saws still going strong. They may be a little slower or a little heavier, but you have to go with a "PRO" level saw to get the best weight to cc ratio.
I have 56cc Stihl S-08s, 1960-70's saws I still use. They do not have chain brakes, rpms are around 7,000 and they are top handles but they have great torque in the wood. Just stay alert & don't hurry.
Have fun!
The man has 1.5 acres, he doesn't need a 70cc felling saw with 28" bar. I have experience and own saws in every cc size, and I use my 346 more than any other saw I have. The 346 is 50cc like the ms261. I've ran several 261's and they pull a 20" b&c just fine, and it's a well built tool, that can cut hundreds of cords of wood a year if needed.
And he can cut hundreds of chords a year with a semiPro/farmer saw like the Dolmar 510, Husqvarna 450, Stihl 270/271, etc. And save a bunch of money in the beginning. But then again as far as I understood he doesn't want to! He only has 1.5 acres to take care of and intends to remove only a few trees. With that size of property and intended use he could buy a Wildthing and still be sufficiently armed! This here sure sounds like some guys recomending a porsche cayenne to drive to the mall to get a quart of milk.... ::)
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A ms261 would certainly get the job done. But I dont think you even need a pro grade saw like that. The 291 or 311 will work just as well and you will never wear it out with only 1 1/2 acres.
Dolmar make good saws but they dont have such a good dealer network in the US.
The other main brands also make good saws, but OP said he had a goos Stihl dealer locally so thats where I would send him.
BTW its easy enough to take down 36" dia trees with a20" bar. But if you are doing it all the time, you probably need more saw.
Some people value high quality, others could care less as long as it gets you from A to B. I tend to always buy the best of the best, others do as well, so that's what I always suggests. The OP is free to make up his own mind, it's his money. I'm also free to spend my money on whatever I want, need isn't always apart of my purchasing decisions.
That doesn't limit people to tailor their purchases to their needs. No doubt quality products have a definate advantage. But the quality of the brands I recomended are in my eyes without a doubt.
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Since the OP is here in Washington State and he posted the wood he will be cutting a MS 250 will work for him also
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34433/DSC_9345.JPG)
The above saw's both have 18" .325 b/c
Quote from: 7sleeper on February 14, 2014, 05:26:03 PM
That doesn't limit people to tailor their purchases to their needs. No doubt quality products have a definate advantage. But the quality of the brands I recomended are in my eyes without a doubt.
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They are high quality. I personally wouldn't own a Stihl 270, I can't stand how they're built, I recommend the 390 instead. I own 5 Dolmar saws myself, and Dealer network is the issue with Dolmar. To me a strong dealer network doesn't mean as much, I fix my own saws, to most a good dealer is a must.
Again pretty much any of the suggestions will get the job done, but if you want the best, you have to pay for it.
Hi, plenty of professionals on here to steer you in the right direction. A second hand Husqvarna 51 or 55 with a 20-24 inch bar would see you right and wouldnt hurt your pocket. I see plenty on ebay from time to time and they go much cheaper over there in the usa, and the parts are easy to get. Good quality saw with good torque and speed.
i recommend ms 362-m
Lots of good advice here but confusing too - quite a range of saws and brands. I choose Stihl but the other good brands will also do the job.
One thing I will say - an MS 211 is completely wrong for you. I bought a used one a few days ago just for garden shrubbery and limbing trees. Light and portable but more powerful than a consumer saw.
When reading your introduction my first thought was an MS 361 or even better an MS 440 but no, other posters are correct, this would be overkill. I suggest an MS 311 is a good balance between power, weight, and value.
Stihl is expensive (albeit in New Zealand we pay twice the US price) but you do get quality and a reliable dealer backup. They hold their value too.
If you are confident about tinkering with repairs then a used saw is worth considering. But for peace of mind a new saw is best.
Quote from: Andyshine77 on February 14, 2014, 04:52:01 PM
Some people value high quality, others could care less as long as it gets you from A to B. I tend to always buy the best of the best, others do as well, so that's what I always suggests. The OP is free to make up his own mind, it's his money. I'm also free to spend my money on whatever I want, need isn't always apart of my purchasing decisions.
Correct - people and their attitudes are different - and I always go for what I think is best, regardless of the price. Chainsaws aren't that expensive anyway, and specially not in the US.
Quote from: 7sleeper on February 14, 2014, 03:22:56 PM
And he can cut hundreds of chords a year with a semiPro/farmer saw like the Dolmar 510, Husqvarna 450, Stihl 270/271, etc. And save a bunch of money in the beginning. But then again as far as I understood he doesn't want to! He only has 1.5 acres to take care of and intends to remove only a few trees. With that size of property and intended use he could buy a Wildthing and still be sufficiently armed! This here sure sounds like some guys recomending a porsche cayenne to drive to the mall to get a quart of milk.... ::)
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exactly
Quote from: SawTroll on February 15, 2014, 11:33:32 AM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on February 14, 2014, 04:52:01 PM
Some people value high quality, others could care less as long as it gets you from A to B. I tend to always buy the best of the best, others do as well, so that's what I always suggests. The OP is free to make up his own mind, it's his money. I'm also free to spend my money on whatever I want, need isn't always apart of my purchasing decisions.
Correct - people and their attitudes are different - and I always go for what I think is best, regardless of the price. Chainsaws aren't that expensive anyway, and specially not in the US.
Agree and well said. My choice is always to choose the best I can afford, With cars compromise is necessary ie. Toyota rather than BMW but I have no complaints.
Similarly I share 4 Stihl saws and a hedge trimmer with my brother and they are strong and completely reliable. If they weren't we'd have moved to Husky but after 25 years Stihl has proven to be completely what we need for casual farm owners. No repairs that I can remember.
Quote from: KiwiKen on February 16, 2014, 07:42:42 AM
Quote from: SawTroll on February 15, 2014, 11:33:32 AM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on February 14, 2014, 04:52:01 PM
Some people value high quality, others could care less as long as it gets you from A to B. I tend to always buy the best of the best, others do as well, so that's what I always suggests. The OP is free to make up his own mind, it's his money. I'm also free to spend my money on whatever I want, need isn't always apart of my purchasing decisions.
Correct - people and their attitudes are different - and I always go for what I think is best, regardless of the price. Chainsaws aren't that expensive anyway, and specially not in the US.
Agree and well said. My choice is always to choose the best I can afford, With cars compromise is necessary ie. Toyota rather than BMW but I have no complaints.
Similarly I share 4 Stihl saws and a hedge trimmer with my brother and they are strong and completely reliable. If they weren't we'd have moved to Husky but after 25 years Stihl has proven to be completely what we need for casual farm owners. No repairs that I can remember.
But you don't have the best! The only pro saw in your sig is the 066. All others are what Sawtroll would describe as "underpowered and overweight"! What was the reason for buying this subpar equipment? Becuase I am sure that the only work can be done with the 066. All others are only standing around and gaining weight...
;)
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A MS 261 or 261cm is gonna last you a long time but you're gonna pay pretty big money compared to the other models. Since you want a Stihl and I don't blame you... dealers everywhere for one, I would say a ms 291 for what your budget allows and your cutting needs. The 290 sold like hotcakes and was a pretty good value for what the saw can/could handle. One thing I see on the internet is everyone needs a husky or dolmar, which is ok. Rarely do you see a die hard stihlhead like some of the other brands anymore. Stihl is like Ford in my eyes, they sell the best selling truck and Stihl sells the best selling saw... ;D Everyone knows that so why would you have to stick up for the them... 8)
Welcome to the forum. If you do buy a second saw to get you out of a bind, I'd pass up the 211. Looks ok on paper but the Stihl dealer I do business with won't stalk that saw because of the high amount of returns. When a 30 or 40 year old Stihl dealer refuses to stock one of their saws, that tells you some things. Things about the saw and the honesty of the dealer. I'm a Stihlhead myself but frankly, if you're going to buy a homeowner grade saw, might as well save money and buy a Poulan.
Your big saw is a whole other thing. If you like your local Stihl dealer, you won't go wrong on the 291, or any other ranch or pro saw. If you like the looks of a Dolmar, a saw I'd like to try myself, order the blue Makita version through our site sponsor, Baileys. As mentioned by others, any big name saw will work for any of us. Just stay away from the homeowner grade saws.
There's another site more dedicated to ARBORISTS, can't remember the exact name but google that all caps word and I bet you'll find it. The trading forum there has a lot of very knowledgeable and reputable builders/sellers of quality used saws, stock and modified. nmurph is one site members user name that comes to mind. If you find that ARBORIST SITE (wink wink) start a conversation with Neal, aka nmurph and see what he has on hand. There's a lot of others to. I think he's on this site under the same name.
Thank you everyone for your feedback and input.
After walking through and surveying the property I think a 16" bar will tackle 80% of what I want to do.
I do agree that I think I want to get a minimum of a ranch/farm saw. Better built and will last longer. It may not last to my granchildren, but should last me 20 years.
I think I will go with either an MS271 or MS291 still not decided on which. Of course my bonus is now being split - got to love the wife giving input on how I should spend my bonus. Normally this would be a complaint, but it was recommended I should pick up a shotgun. So I am torn. One of them will need to wait a little longer.
Oh the decisions.
Again, thank you everyone for your input. Each of you provided good food for thought. I will be sure to keep you updated on what saw I get.
-Terracar
Not having a shotgun is a bad idea! If you want to save some money forget Stihl and think about an Echo 590. Same league like as a 291. Build quality is excelent! And with the money saved you might have a better chance of getting the rest of the needed equipment!
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