Read an article about the EPA considering restrictions or new regs on OWBs and wood burning fire boxes. They aim to regulate the ammt of whatever escapes thru the chimney.
If passed, and all do comply, that will greatly increase the use of elect, nat gas, fuel oil, propane etc. All of those are traceable and taxed. The vast majority of the wood being burned is not taxed. Is there a clue there?
HITH did our country/atmosphere survive all the centuries of wood burning? I would submit that the quan of wood being burned currently is somewhat and maybe substantially less than it was, say, 100 yrs ago, when all the other energy sources were not yet developed.
I thought wood burning was carbon neutral due to the fact that wood left to rot in the woods gave off the carbon anyway?
i think they are trying to do away with stoves cause, lets face it alot of people burn stuff in them that belongs in the landfill. another is big energy has lobbing power to persaude decisions in their favor. :)
they will have to throw me in the pen :o before I stop using wood or they can GIVE me the oil to burn
Quote from: coxy on February 25, 2014, 07:25:26 PM
they will have to throw me in the pen :o before I stop using wood or they can GIVE me the oil to burn
That is the way I feel also. It is amazing just a year ago you could get a tax credit for installing one.
That will be the last straw.The dictators in europe have found the people will take just so much.
The carbon dioxide given off from burning wood and fossil fuels is recycled when the plants use it to convert it to the green stuff that makes them grow .When they move that green stuff around they release ........................Oxygen , imagine that , If you don't release carbon dioxide you can't have oxygen. Burn wood, generate oxygen.
The CO2 released from burning or rotting wood is net zero. The CO2 from fossil fuels is not, as the fossils fuels have not been a part of the ecosystem for a few million years.
At least when u burn wood u r using a renewable resource. Cut a tree down to burn some more will grow. Don't see that with oil wells.
I have a buddy in Littleton,Co and he is only allowed to burn his wood stove 3 days a week by city ordinance. I think we'd have a revolt if that happened here!
This is not about CO2 or the renewable recyclable nature of wood as a fuel. It's all about air quality and the particulate matter that comes from yours and my chimney. When peoplein neighborhoods that are increasing in population density use more and more wood fueled methods of heat, air quality, as defined by them, goes down. They want cleaner burning stoves.
Quote from: red oaks lumber on February 25, 2014, 06:56:43 PM
i think they are trying to do away with stoves cause, lets face it alot of people burn stuff in them that belongs in the landfill.
Really? I know quite a few people that heat their houses with wood whether it be an OWB or inside stove. I don't know anyone that burns trash in theirs.
Relax, Obama is not going to come and get your wood stove, as one office holding nut case said. But the press and certain politicians have been trying to use this story to stir up hate and discontent for profit, their usual modus operandi. >:(
Some facts are in order.
The EPA has been regulating your basic wood stove, and only that particular wood burning appliance, since 1988. OWBs, fireplaces, fire pits, BBQs, smokers, chimeras, pellet stoves, and really leaky crappy junky box store stoves are currently unregulated.
EPA proposes to bring the currently unregulated OWBs and junk stoves under the regulations. The regulations would also be tightened to reduce emissions below currently allowed levels. The regulations would not go into effect for some time.
Existing unregulated wood burning appliances would NOT be subject to the new regulations.
Existing regulated wood burning appliances would NOT be subject to the new tighter standards.
Outdoor BBQs, smokers, fire pits, chimeras, etc., would NOT be subject to the new regulations.
OWBs, aka Smoke Dragons, are already banned in some states and municipalities due to the horrendous pollution that some of them generate. Several states are suing the EPA because they chose not to regulate them in the past. The states are likely to prevail in court. EPA is trying to get ahead of that.
Personal observations:
I use to heat with wood with a pre EPA wood stove. Like most wood burners back then, I dampered down and usually had smoke drifting out of my chimney. No one complained because I was in the country, but had I been in the city, I would have expected some complaints just because of that area's politics.
Today, I live elsewhere and have an EPA certified non catalytic wood stove. The difference is like night and day. Not only do I have no smoke from the chimney, except during cold starts, but I get far more heat out my wood that I could have ever dreamed of with the old stove. I have seen estimates ranging anywhere from 35 to 50% more heat from an EPA stove than your average old unregulated stove. I can't dispute those numbers.
The simple technology that reburns the pollutants in today's EPA stove is simply a win-win situation. Less air pollution for everyone, and more heat for the stove owner. The only loser in the mix is the hide bound small manufacturer that couldn't or wouldn't make the change.
As far as the smoke dragons go, I use to live near a guy that heated with one. He installed it new when I lived there, so it wasn't some old junker. That thing poured out smoke day and night all winter long. For some reason I don't fully understand, the smoke virtually always hugged the ground as it drifted off. Fortunately, we lived upwind from him and his property was very large, so we weren't bothered by the smoke. But if we had lived down wind and close by, I know we would not been able to tolerate it.
Personally, I think the OWBs should be regulated. I see no reason why the manufactures should not be able make non Smoke Dragon versions that don't wipe out everyone down wind.
Lastly, this is all a proposal. It isn't a regulation yet. Everyone gets have their say in the review process. It is almost certain that the proposed regulation will be changed before it is codified. They always are. By all means comment on the proposed regulation yourself. It is your right, and they really want to hear from all stakeholders. You can bet the states, municipalities, corporations will all be heard. The more wood burners that are heard, the better.
Sound like you have been talking to Swampdonkey. ::)
doctorb,could set a video camers to show you how little his smokes and there are others on here that have the same type.
I have the old type,Smoke Dragons,as you say. The new ones was hardly even thought of when I brought mine.I have seen my old cook stove smoke more than the OWB. I have drive down the road and seen smoke pour out of a chimmey. If that was a OWB someone would have a fit,just because it's an OWB. I'm not defending the ones that smoke,all the time. Mine might smoke,but it only cyles,makes smoke,6-7 times a day. Sure does not put out smoke all day long. I have been by mine and you would not even know that it was on.
Quote from: thecfarm on February 27, 2014, 11:54:09 AM
Sound like you have been talking to Swampdonkey. ::)
No, I haven't had the pleasure. ???
But your points are why I said
some of them.
As I see it, they need to be brought under the EPA rules, same as the wood stoves. That should drive the bad manufacturers out of the market, assuming they still exist. It should also mean that those states and municipalities that ban OWBs, will be under pressure or forced to lift those bans.
I guess you missed the part about doctorb. The EPA has all ready made the OWB builders make a OWB that cuts down on the smoke. Called gassiers? They make smoke a little on start up,but when they hit a certain stack temp point the gas from the smoke is burned and hardly any smoke. They also burn less wood too!! Someone that has one can explain better than me.
Just because you saw one smoke don't mean they all smoke,that's the Swampdonkey joke. Or my FIL too.
IMO, DeepCreek has the correct slant on this issue. For those who feel that the big bad government is going to outlaw burning wood, I think a cleansing breath (no reference to breathing smoke intended)may be in order. I view this next EPA proposal the same as I view the recent stepwise program for EPA aopproval of OWB's. Read the information in the NESCAUM studies. The data is not perfect. The tests aren't perfect. The conclusions aren't perfect. But what is undeniable is that newer technologies with wood burning reduce particulate matter pollution, and that can not be a bad thing, no matter how much we dislike change. It's a bit like MPG requirements for cars. My 5 year old gasifier, which is EPA phase II approved, can't hold a candle to the reduced emmisions that the newer models produce. Five years ago, the reduction in pollution from my stove was considered indutry leading As the techniology gets refined, the problems of the older stoves will get corrected.
So I do not think it's a bad thing to require manufacturers to put out a less polluting product for future use. A lot more concern will arise if the proposal includes a grace period during which you must upgrade your current stove to a new technology one. I can see a future time that the sale of used, unapproved stoves will be regulated as well.
Yes, my gasification OWB burns clean the majority of the time. I hate it when it smokes and I go out and correct it.
Quote from: thecfarm on February 27, 2014, 12:39:30 PM
I guess you missed the part about doctorb. The EPA has all ready made the OWB builders make a OWB that cuts down on the smoke. Called gassiers? They make smoke a little on start up,but when they hit a certain stack temp point the gas from the smoke is burned and hardly any smoke. They also burn less wood too!! Someone that has one can explain better than me.
Just because you saw one smoke don't mean they all smoke,that's the Swampdonkey joke. Or my FIL too.
No, I didn't miss it. As I read it, the EPA is proposing to bring all outdoor wood burning furnaces under their regs. Just because some of them are non polluting doesn't mean they all shouldn't be covered by the regs. In fact, it argues for them to be covered, not exempt. Those models and/or makers that can't or won't burn clean go out of business. Folks that want an outdoor wood burning furnace will still be able to buy and install one, and it will be cleaner and more efficient that the old models, just like happened with wood stoves. It's called progress.
Its all about money or the government wouldn't be so concerned. Look at Ct weather you have a 100 acres or 1 owf are banned! But they burn tons&tons of garbage in Hartford at the abb plant.wake up the epa is all about money or they would be more concerned about replacing all the old outdated oil furnaces with new tier 4 furnaces just like the trucks. Inefficient furnaces pollute a lot but also burn a lot witch means more money for oil companies and the lobbyists. EPA is blowing more smoke than any owf! My wood burning stove from the 80's doesn't smoke when burning unless we add wet wood/start up! Plus I like the look of smoke coming out of the chimney and the smell.just my 2 cents. Got to get to work so I can pay my fuel card!
Quote from: Don_Papenburg on February 26, 2014, 06:32:56 PM
The carbon dioxide given off from burning wood and fossil fuels is recycled when the plants use it to convert it to the green stuff that makes them grow .When they move that green stuff around they release ........................Oxygen , imagine that , If you don't release carbon dioxide you can't have oxygen. Burn wood, generate oxygen.
I have just been outside watching the smoke from my kitchen cook stove.The smoke disappears with in 3 ft of the chimney.That leads me to believe the smoke is mostly steam, not a deadly cloud as the experts say.I think they lie to push their agenda. I lift the cover on the cook stove fire box,little smoke comes out.The wood is burning briskly.White Ash is a good firewood even when cut 5 months ago.
Patrick Henry once said " Give me Liberty or give me Death " just see what happens when they try to take our heat away. Haven't burned a drop of oil for home heating in the farmhouse since 1994.
David l