OK I tried but I can't figure out what SYP stands for? thanks
Southern Yellow Pine.
phil c,we also have a Forestry Forum Dictionary. But asking is fine too. Go up to the Menu Bar,starts out with Home,Help,Search,hover your mouse over Extras,a drop down menu will appear,click on to Forestry Forum Dictionary,then you should be all set. Click onto S and then Look for SYP. Click onto SYP and it will give you more of a definition than Southern Yellow Pine. And while in the Extras check out the other stuff too. Lots of good stuff at your finger tips.
Yea, southern yellow pine, and it's not all yellow, and does not all cut the same, there is fast growing, slow growing, knotty, and clear. Reactive, and well behaved. But at the end of the day, it still is SYP. Close to bread and butter. There is still many acronyms for the milling industry I still don't know, and have trouble finding the right dictionary that explains them all. All to often different areas use different terms related to types and processes. Mainly in the finished product. I reckon experience is the best teacher. david
Minly a marketing term for Loblolly, Longleaf, Shortleaf, and Slash pines. They are related, grow in the same area, the wood has similar properties, and they can pretty much be used interchangeably.
So if your building plan specifies SYP, that's what you buy, and it's strong enough (assuming it's graded right). Exact species doesn't matter.
Of course there will be good logs, and not so good logs. But that comes out in the grading process.
Ian
Technically, the wood of the four major southern pines is indistinguishable as to be species from a wood structure standpoint.
By no means am I an expert but in Wisconsin we call it SPF. Spruce Pine Fir. That means to me it is a standard construction board that could be any one of a multitude of species. In the South I translate that to be syp. I could be way off and I think smarter folks will soon offer better info.
John
SYP stands for "sticky yellow poop", or at least that's what I call it when it gets sap all over me and the mill...
Southern yellow pine is good stuff it grows in the same range as grits are consumed. Even our northern built sawmills used to be made with that southern pine for its stability. Frank C.
Quote from: Small Slick on March 05, 2014, 08:18:41 PM
By no means am I an expert but in Wisconsin we call it SPF. Spruce Pine Fir. That means to me it is a standard construction board that could be any one of a multitude of species. In the South I translate that to be syp. I could be way off and I think smarter folks will soon offer better info.
John
SPF and SYP aren't the same thing. Studs, 2x6, 2x8(sometimes) and 1x are typically SPF. SYP is most often used in framing members that need to span a distance and carry a load. SPF material tends to be straighter than SYP and is often used as roof rafters because of that. That's how it is down here in GA anyway. :)
Quote from: scsmith42 on March 05, 2014, 08:43:31 PM
SYP stands for "sticky yellow poop", or at least that's what I call it ...
When did they start calling Grits, SYP ??? :D :D :D
Quote from: scsmith42 on March 05, 2014, 08:43:31 PM
SYP stands for "sticky yellow poop", or at least that's what I call it when it gets sap all over me and the mill...
Gummy Bear..... :D :D :D
Quote from: rwthom279 on March 05, 2014, 10:51:46 PM
When did they start calling Grits, SYP ??? :D :D :D
Oh that's funny... :D :D :D
I'll be cutting some SYP soon. Hopefully with the tree felled this time of year, the "sticky yellow poop" will be down. When I built my house, I didnt leave a single pine close by for that very reason. I didn't have my mill then, I wish I had those trees now.
About the grits... is this gonna be another thread with those mixed in? I had a bowl this morning, great way to start the day.
About the grits mixed in? Not if I can help it ;D
Quote from: thecfarm on March 06, 2014, 05:16:08 PM
About the grits mixed in? Not if I can help it ;D
No respect. :D
Someone correct me if I am wrong but I was informed once that SYP was the only wood that could be pressure treated.
Quote from: customsawyer on March 06, 2014, 05:22:50 PM
Someone correct me if I am wrong but I was informed once that SYP was the only wood that could be pressure treated.
I've never thought about or heard that. But I'd like to know too.
I have SYP as decking on my front porch and my deck on the back of the house!
It is all PT.
That pressure treating question is very interesting. SYP is the only species that I have ever seen PT, but again, we do not have Fur, Spruce, Hemlock, Redwood, Tamarack, Larch, and whatever else.
Down here in the south, SYP is loaded onto trucks at the local sawmills and fits on an 8' wide trailer perfect. SPF is loaded on trucks at rail yards and doesn't fit on an 8' wide trailer perfect. Is it a metric thing that causes SPF packs to be 6" wider? lol
Not sure if this is the case at all. It seems that the density of the wood would control this. With this, most wood types have varying densities, so the pressure would need to be adjusted to meet the need. This said, the original strength of the wood being treated would be a factor. There was a plant not far from here that did oak, and they made great fencing material. I suppose this is why tee post have been so popular, but the cost of these have sky rocketed in recent times. I have witnessed white oak, split fence posts that have been in for over 30 years solid as a rock, and to note, these were charred, where the char is above the ground level several inches. I believe the ole timers had an insight to getting it done without chemicals. david
thankyou you guys are great
Quote from: chopperdr47 on March 06, 2014, 05:03:25 PM
I'll be cutting some SYP soon. Hopefully with the tree felled this time of year, the "sticky yellow poop" will be down. When I built my house, I didnt leave a single pine close by for that very reason. I didn't have my mill then, I wish I had those trees now.
Don't bet on it. Around here, a pine felled this time of year will have a big puddle of sap on the ground at each end in a few hours. Have some sawdust handy to cover it with. If you step in it, you'll regret it.
Ponderosa pine and lodgepole pine can be pressure treated. So can western hemlock and douglas fir, but the process is much more difficult. Here is a link to the Western Wood Preservers Institute with some info about pressure treating western species.
http://www.wwpinstitute.org/documents/woodworkseng.pdf
Red Pine is pressure treated too, but only for above ground use that I have seen. My treated wood basement is SYP.
Almost any species can be and has been pressure treated. On the low density end, I have seen pressure treated aspen.
Those species that are not porous enough (correct term is permeable), then a small knife is used to make slits in the outside of the piece being treated so that the preservative can get into the outer sections of the wood. This is called incising and is common with Douglas-fir, especially inland. This extra step of incising costs more. Also, as most treated wood is used in a structural application, as SYP treats easily and thoroughly, and as SYP is so much stronger than other pines and softwoods, SYP is the dominant species that is treated.
Hardwoods can also be treated. In fact, almost all RR ties are hardwoods and they are pressure treated with creosote rather than the water soluble salts used for SYP.
OK?
What is the correlation between strength and ring count in SYP? I know that SYP is strong, great stuff generally, but the junk I see at the box stores with no more than 3 rings to the inch seems to be garbage. I see 4x4 and 6x6 posts snap across the piece quite often. In fact a 6" stub is all that my neighbor has for a mailbox post right now, for the second time this winter. :D
What is SPF? Well, it depends where you are. Much of the SPF in the U.S. marketplace comes from Canada; the term is actually a marketing term (There is no SPF tree.) used by the grading associations to group several similar species together--it is easier on the mills not to have to sort species. The species included are lightweight. For someone building a "stick-built" house, the weight is a big plus. Also, the species in this grouping are not prone to warp and are easy to nail into.
In fact, a few years ago, well over 2/3 of the framing lumber sold in GA (the #1 forested state in the 13 southern states) was SPF from Canada. In eastern Canada, SPF includes red spruce, black spruce, jack pine, and balsam fir species. In western Canada, it includes white spruce, Engelmann spruce, lodgepole pine, and alpine fir.
SPF is not widely used for roof structures due to its low strength and therefore short spans. Likewise, for patio decking. However, it is widely used for framing 2x4s and 2x6s. Most of the SPF species do not treat as easily as SYP.
Some wood species, such as the ring porous hardwoods like oak and ash, and probably all of the species that have a big difference between the wood grown in the early part of the year versus the late part of the year (i.e., a big color difference within a single growth ring, as well as a density difference), will have a big difference in strength due to growth rate.
The ring porous hardwoods that grow slowly will have a higher percentage of the large open pores, reducing strength. So, from a practical point, southern oaks are stronger than northern.
Softwoods like southern pine, when slow grown, will have more dense wood (dark, redder colored within the ring) and this is stronger. So, slower grown is stronger (the opposite of hardwoods). With SYP the difference when grading is 6 rings per inch...more rings is called dense and has higher design values. Also, 4 rings per inch can be dense if the ring has over 50% of the dark, dense latewood. (Example: A No2. 2x6 SYP 16" o.c. floor joist can span 10'8" if dense and 10'0" if not.)
OK?
OK! smiley_thumbsup
Much of the SYP lumber is graded using a machine that determines board strength, maybe board density, I am not sure. This lumber is called MEL or machine-evaluated-lumber if it makes the threhsold strength grade. Much of this MEL lumber is used by the wood truss manufacturers. Boards with few rings per inch will not make the MEL grade. The boards that meet the #2 or better appearance grade, but do not make the strength grade, are sorted out and this is some of what you see for sale at the Box Stores.