Wondering where I might find some wheel hub/axles to use in building a log arch. I'm thinking the the rear hubs off a front wheel drive car might work. One problem may be the bolt hole circle of the hub where it would mount to the uprights. On some GM hubs I've researched the bolt circle is 3.96", meaning I'd need to use much wider tubing to accommodate the bolt pattern, or narrow tube and weld on a flange to mount the hub. Welding the hub itself to the tubing is not an option as the hubs are cast iron.
The cost of new hubs, bearings, axles etc has been the major factor keeping me from building an arch. I figure junk yard parts should cut the cost by more than half.
Any thoughts or words of warning?
Just something to keep in mind!
Most of the front-wheel drive cars don't weigh near as much as some of the logs that we saw, so the hubs on them might not hold up!
Just sayin'!
Quote from: Chuck White on March 18, 2014, 04:40:00 PM
Just something to keep in mind!
Most of the front-wheel drive cars don't weigh near as much as some of the logs that we saw, so the hubs on them might not hold up!
Just sayin'!
That is one concern I've got. I figure I'd source them from a mid or full size car with a five bolt pattern. The weak point would be the bolts or studs fastening them to the arch.
I'm kind of up in the air on how large to make the arch too. I've milled logs that approached the weight limit of the mill, 4,400 lbs, but the majority of what I mill is under 3,000 lbs.
Delawhere Jack,
Back up a few posts, and look at Magic Man,s arch build. Very neat and simple with very few moving parts. Andy
It ain't a Logrite, but for a homebuilt arch it worked very well. Outrigger Log Arch (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,73554.0.html)
I myself would make it rugged. Get a log on there and go over a stump and the weight goes to one side.
SOME mini vans & front wheel drive SUVs have some pretty good hubs in them. There are others like older 2wd drive trucks & use front wheels & bearings off them. These are heavy duty and most are cast STEEL so can be welded on pretty easy. I heard that in the 90's GM went to cast iron so stay away from them but the Fords were steel. I don;t know on the Dodges so would be a toss up. get battery a powered hand grinder and grind it a bit (cut of blade works great to free up stuff.) to learn difference sparks on cast iron are different than steel get a hunk of both and grind each back and forth to see what I mean.
There are also good axles and spindles at TSC or online as well but would be buying new adding costs to it but not a great deal over the junkyard prices (junkyards are crazy expensive any more around here.)
Mark
I've had logs up to about 3000 lbs. on mine. Hubs were from a '95 Grand Am. Fabricator bought them from a local salvage yard. Hubs, wheels and tires for $130.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19572/2951/Arch_winch_tiny_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19572/2951/Arch_winch_tiny_3.jpg)
The larger the diameter the tire is,the easier to haul the load.
Jim
You can get a stub axle and hub with bearings (all new) for reasonable money from stores that sell trailer parts. (Check around, prices vary a lot; I was able to get a full set-up for two wheels from my steel supplier for less than TSC wanted for just one hub with bearings)
If you have a donor vehicle that will supply hubs, bearings, wheels and tires; that would change the picture.
If you could find a mobile home axle you could cut the axle tube and leave few inches for a stub to weld to.
They sell some hubs rated for 1000 lbs for pretty cheap
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Wheels/Spindles-Wheel-Hubs/5-BOLT-LOW-SPEED-HUB-W-BEARINGS-1-3747.axd
I built my log arch from an old boat trailer, and a pop-up camper frame. I used parts from both because they where both free. If you get your hands on either a rotten boat trailer, or the frame from a rotten pop-up camper, either one you have 95% of the materials needed to build your log arch. If you are near the coast, there will be free boat trailers with some frame rot . There is always a supply of free small campers that have water damage. Remember that shorter is better when it comes to log arches. A short arch does not not lift up on your drawbar / tow vehicle. (I know from experiance, but can't explain why it doesn't pull up on the drawbar, but it doesn't).
I will post pictures in the AM. It's not pretty, but it has pulled more logs than manny 6 figure log skidders.
Thanks guys, lots of good info.
I have a couple axle tube ends cut from a Dana 60 full float 1 ton truck that I can use as stub axles
8 bolt 16.5" rim by whatever size tire you have handy
I haven't built it yet as I am afraid it might be too heavy, but it sure would take some weight.
Quote from: boscojmb on March 18, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Remember that shorter is better when it comes to log arches. A short arch does not not lift up on your drawbar / tow vehicle. (I know from experiance, but can't explain why it doesn't pull up on the drawbar, but it doesn't).
I will post pictures in the AM. It's not pretty, but it has pulled more logs than manny 6 figure log skidders.
This only matters if your log is not suspended and your drag coefficient turns your arch into a lever. Lots of people use a rear dolly on the log when hauling long logs to reduce drag plus keep the log out of the dirt. A tall arch can have advantages as well. I've used the height (approximately 6 ft) of my arch to set large stones and transplant trees. Things that were too heavy for the FEL. There are usually pros and cons to most decisions one just needs to weigh these to see what fits best.
Safety First,,okay some are going to laugh, "BRAKES" who needs brakes. Not only can you pull heavier loads with one end in the air they also require more stopping power, an electric brake controller wired to your tow vehicle gives you an additional measure of stopping assistance. If you go with the mobile home axle as Well mud suggest you have an additional advantage of having electric brakes. Our local scrap yard has several travel trailers waiting to be dismantled.
Junkyard spindles and hubs, you can use the fronts off any 1/2 ton 4x4, or you can use the "full floater" spindles and hubs off the rears. Usually the rears are 3/4 ton 8 lug units which are probably overkill. 1/2 ton fronts were either gm 6 on 5.5 pattern or ford 5 on 5.5 pattern (jeep too).
Trailer parts depot has 1 1/16 spindles and 5 on 4.5 hubs for 2700 lbs pair rating for $45 a side.
Ditto the mobile home axle. I bought an axle complete with brakes, wheels and tires for 60 bucks. Any mobile home home dealer will have them laying around, take offs from new trailers. Normally them come in 3500 or 7000 pound load ratings. The tires are an odd size, 14.5 inch tubeless, they are bad to leak around the rims. A 14 inch tube works fine. You get an 8 ft piece of 3 inch tubing as a extra.
Third on that idea. I built my arch maybe 15 years ago by using a trailer axle. Pineywoods is better at shopping, as I payed a few more dollars.
I found a good deal a couple of years ago on new stub axles and hubs. Shop the trailer places and ebay. I don't think mind were real heavy...I was using one to build a firewood bundle wrapper. Still, trailer axles are cheaper as you get the whole enchilada that way.
An old manure spreader would be a great donor. You would get tractor size tires and a very heavy duty spindle/pipe axle. Plus, they aren't worth much once they are rusted out or the moving parts are busted. There is probably enough other metal in the frame to build the whole arch. The trick would be finding one before it got hauled to the scrap yard. A wanted ad on C-list or calling around to local dairy farms might turn one up.
My log arch was built with new stub axles, hubs and bearings.I bought the parts when I could afford them.Trying to build cheap will just waste a lot of time and projects built with scrap. always look like scrap.I bought my steel a bit at a time.A warning on boat trailers.My boat trailer has 1 inch axles and small tires.I had the log arch built long before I got my saw mill.I had a pair of wheels with good tires and a winch.All parts were bought a few at a time.
Quote from: 36 coupe on March 22, 2014, 06:20:08 PM
My log arch was built with new stub axles, hubs and bearings.I bought the parts when I could afford them.Trying to build cheap will just waste a lot of time and projects built with scrap. always look like scrap.I bought my steel a bit at a time.A warning on boat trailers.My boat trailer has 1 inch axles and small tires.I had the log arch built long before I got my saw mill.I had a pair of wheels with good tires and a winch.All parts were bought a few at a time.
I know, some times you spend more time crawling around a junkyard than it's really worth.
I'm really tempted by the link Jake put up for the surplus center hubs/spindles, but I've just been burned SO MANY TIMES with cheap import stuff.
Still cogitating........
They do not have much weight carrying capacity. The mobile home axle/tires that I used are rated at over 5K lbs. That plus the two tires/rims only cost me $100.
36 coupe,you are kinda right. But I have ALOT of stuff that I have collected over the years. If I can spend $20 on wire for my welder instead of $1000 for something,the $20 wins out. Most times I don't either bother to paint my projects. Now if I was selling some of my projects,I would put the paint to them.
One thing I never thought about when building mine is height at the arch , best to keep it low if you can if you have lots of side hill work for it . Mine might be a little tall . And I need to fix the twisted hitch on my quad . And fish the arch out of the holler ! Tom's looks a fair bit shorter than mine . Lol . Red
Quote from: Red Good on March 22, 2014, 08:34:28 PM
One thing I never thought about when building mine is height at the arch , best to keep it low if you can if you have lots of side hill work for it . Mine might be a little tall . And I need to fix the twisted hitch on my quad . And fish the arch out of the holler ! Tom's looks a fair bit shorter than mine . Lol . Red
I built my arch some 15 - 20 years ago. It looks similar to the one MM built. Skidded some monster logs with it and a lot were in steep country. After a few experiences when I first started using it, I would never even consider using it on side hills. With a quad its 10 times more dangerous. Just too many ways to get in trouble on side hills and it happens fast. That log is like a swinging pendulum if not secured just right. Trust me on this one.
Straight up and down hills (maybe not down with a quad) and level there a great low cost machine.
Quote from: Red Good on March 22, 2014, 08:34:28 PM
One thing I never thought about when building mine is height at the arch , best to keep it low if you can if you have lots of side hill work for it . Mine might be a little tall . And I need to fix the twisted hitch on my quad . And fish the arch out of the holler ! Tom's looks a fair bit shorter than mine . Lol . Red
You should have a hitch where the draw bar can rotate and not put a twisting force on the tow vehicle.Most arches I see are too high.My arch is just high enough to keep a 30 inch log off the ground.My mill sets that limit any way.Most kids know that top heavy home made carts tip over easy.My arch cost 200.00 to build 10 years ago.It has splayed legs that make it more stable that a straight leg cart.A ready built arch would cost 2000.00 at the time I built mine.
Perhaps Early Ford N series spindle (not sure of the working load) lots of them out there
Or any medium duty tractor front spindles and wheels??
DGDrls
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/lspindle.jpg)
Quote from: thecfarm on March 22, 2014, 07:30:03 PM
36 coupe,you are kinda right. But I have ALOT of stuff that I have collected over the years. If I can spend $20 on wire for my welder instead of $1000 for something,the $20 wins out. Most times I don't either bother to paint my projects. Now if I was selling some of my projects,I would put the paint to them.
I found that some projects never got built if I waited til I found the right scrap.Every thing I build gets a coat of zinc oxide primer and some red or green enamel later.Just think what your band mill would look like without paint.Nice orange rust on all the welds.Not much scrap left since the price went up.
How right you are. But Thomas started with new steel,nice and shiny. My steel is all rusted by the time I get my hands on it. I use to get some from the dump and where I use to work. I would go buy steel if I did not have what I needed. I would not know how to act with new steel. ;D
Some folks even use whacked off outriggers. :D
Just two more cents for you :D
I built a arch for towing with my ATV which only weighs 400 lbs so I was not too worried about the axle stubs breaking.....More worried about the light tow mobile ;D
I tried the junkyard but ended up going with a new Made in USA (Very Important to me) Trailer stub axles,hubs, and bearings package I found on Ebay... $90 bucks as I recall.
Now I would like to second or third or fourth or fifth the idea of trailer brakes on the arch as I have tried to pull stuff way too heavy for the Atv to stop...... :o ::)
It's always wise to consider the pucker factor. :D