The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: yieldmap on June 18, 2004, 12:34:45 PM

Title: End-sealing logs
Post by: yieldmap on June 18, 2004, 12:34:45 PM
How many of you seal the ends of logs after bucking? ???

Is this worth the time?

What do you use to seal?

Sawing with Perry and Everett last week, we could see where un-sealed logs checked in the last 2" when not sealed.  I painted the ends of this batch of logs with some $1 mis-mixed Exterior latex paint.  Not sure if it will work or not, but I've invested $1 and 2 hours into the project so far!  :-/
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Kirk_Allen on June 18, 2004, 06:14:30 PM
I use Anchoreseal on all my logs as soon as they are bucked to size.  

I have had some that did not get sealed and when I cut those logs up and air dried I noticed 3-8 inches of each end was checked bad.  

No checking to date with the Anchorseal.  

Paint :(  I recently was asked to Quartersaw a largre number of Sycamore. The owner had painted the ends with paint to prevent the chekcing.  

Problem?  How do you center the heart if you cant see it?  It was next to impossible to see the endgrain of the logs thus making it difficult to properly center the log for Quarter Sawing.

I like the anchorseal because when it dries you can still see the endgrain pattern.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: RMay on June 18, 2004, 08:24:54 PM
I sawed some logs for a customer that had painted his logs with dirt on the ends of the logs. Between the dirt and paint the sparks would fly :(  We had to cut the ends off  ;D
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Frank_Pender on June 19, 2004, 07:34:12 AM
I used an end sealer on all of the hardwoods that I saw.  I had used Anchor Seal for a few years and have recently swithced to the same type of product for less money produced by Associated Chemists, Inc..  ;D I have been real happy with the results.  It too, dries clear so you can see the end grain.   It comes out of Portland, Oregon area.

  Like the others have indicated, it sure saves on the checking.   It is always best to apply before you begin sawing the  logs.   Doing each board is a real pain.

   If you go to Associate Chemists Inc. for search you will find their wide array of products  for the lumber industry.  They are located in Johnson City, Oregon, right on the outskirts of Portland.  Their phone is: 1-800-554-4666.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: maple flats on April 25, 2005, 07:33:39 PM
Where would you find Anchor Seal, is that the Mfgr.?  ??? or just product name? ???
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Brad_S. on April 25, 2005, 07:46:21 PM
Anchorseal is made by U.C. Coatings in Buffalo. Last time I bought some I paid $60 for 5 gallons delivered.
https://www.uccoatings.com/
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Larry on April 25, 2005, 08:04:33 PM
Quote from: Kirk Allen on June 18, 2004, 06:14:30 PM

Problem?  How do you center the heart if you cant see it?  It was next to impossible to see the endgrain of the logs thus making it difficult to properly center the log for Quarter Sawing.

I like the anchorseal because when it dries you can still see the endgrain pattern.

The picture to the left shows a dark green coating made by Valspar.  It was a free sample and I'll never use a dark color again for the reason Kirk stated.

I have been using Anchorseal for a long time...get it on asap and on the high dollar logs put on a second coat the next day.  I try em all, hunting for the best results for the least cost.  Anchorseal seems to always be the winner in the best results category.  Yeap and they make it in colors to.

Just now thought Jeff...Anchorseal could be a possible sponsor.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: maple flats on April 25, 2005, 08:07:25 PM
Thanks, I found it at their web site. I think I'll try some this summer and see how well it works. Anyone ever try spraying it with an airless sprayer, such as a wagner cheapy?  8) 8)
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Larry on April 25, 2005, 08:45:56 PM
Well I have put it on with a pump up sprayer...much prefer to put it on this way at the end of the day with a few adult beverages. ;D  The white color turns to clear when it dries.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/as.jpg)

Most of the time I put it on in the woods or a landing...would take a awful long extension cord for a Wagner sprayer. :D :D
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Kevin on April 25, 2005, 09:04:43 PM
Do the boards split after the log is milled?
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Frank_Pender on April 25, 2005, 09:07:33 PM
I have had some Big Leaf Maple split due to being boxed heart 1 x material.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Brad_S. on April 25, 2005, 09:09:25 PM
You can buy a pump sprayer from U. C. Coatings that is made to apply Anchorseal.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Daren on April 25, 2005, 09:35:31 PM
Anchorseal ! I have some in a garden spayer like Larry said, then spread it good with an old brush. I am new to milling, but it did not take me long to learn reject paint and the like doesn't cut it. I have stacks of sawed wood that split bad painted with junk other that Anchorseal. I have a guy that does some loggin for me, I keep him with a full 5 gallon bucket, I want them coated before he drives out of the timber.

Kevin, not with Anchorseal, with leftover paint it will.

Kirk, at least some people know to at least try. I get calls from people that say they have a log they want sawed that has been down for 6 months with nothing on it. If they say they are fresh cutting, I try to get them some Anchorseal.

yeildmap,I pay less for logs not endsealed. Might as well do it right, and make a sawyers day ;D
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Ironwood on April 26, 2005, 12:45:31 AM
I LOVE ANCHOR SEAL. REID
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: rebocardo on April 26, 2005, 05:58:28 AM
I like Anchor Seal, it does a pretty good job and even stays on in a light rain if it is dried.

Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: southview on April 26, 2005, 08:27:18 AM
If the logs weren't sealed right away and now it is 6 months later is it still a good idea to seal them?

I have used left over semi-transparent stain on logs on have seen no checking (except in willow) and even though it doesn't dry clear it does dry clear enough to see the grain.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: populus on April 26, 2005, 09:53:15 AM
Once cracks start, sealing doesn't seal, since moisture can evaporate through the cracks. You could recut the ends and seal them. We do that with older logs and it works well.

I put my 2 cents in for Anchor Seal as well, but we are about to try the Bailey's sealer. We'll report a comparison after we've tried them both.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Dan_Shade on April 26, 2005, 02:05:26 PM
hmm, i figured sealing even after they cracked would work...  basically, the moisture can get out of end grain easier than the faces of the boards, so sealing even a split board/log would clog up the pores that want to let the water out...

I've been wrong before, though.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: beenthere on April 26, 2005, 02:19:10 PM
Dan
You are right (IMO), the end grain sealed is better than not sealed.

Just similar to 'closing the barn door after the horse is out', but still closing it before all the other horses also get out.  :)

I'd seal the ends if convenient, rather than cut off the ends just to wind up with a fresh cut. More wood lost if removing the log ends, than just sealing the partially dried ends, IMO.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: TexasTimbers on April 26, 2005, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: Frank_Pender on June 19, 2004, 07:34:12 AM
I had used Anchor Seal for a few years and have recently swithced to the same type of product for less money produced by Associated Chemists, Inc..  ;D I have been real happy with the results.  It too, dries clear so you can see the end grain.   It comes out of Portland, Oregon area.

Frank, they sold that division to Valspar in August of last year, 2 months after you made your post, and I couldn't find any info on the Valspar website on it. I wanted to compare the two in price and see how much of a difference there was. I need to buy one or the other. The loghomestore.com sells Anchorseal for $49.95 plus shipping. Dunno if there is a better place to buy it or not.
Where doyou guys get your Anchor Seal?
KJ
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: GF on April 26, 2005, 03:46:35 PM
I use anchor seal on all the logs I cut, really like the product, seems to work very well.

I have dried red oak with and without the ends being sealed and it makes a major difference.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: populus on April 26, 2005, 04:15:05 PM
Go straight to the manufacturer. It's no cheaper anywhere else, and they ship and deliver quickly:  UC Coatings (https://www.uccoatings.com/uccoat.php)
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: gary on April 26, 2005, 06:35:52 PM
I got on anchor seal"s website today after reading this. Now they are sending me a quart as a free sample.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: moosehunter on April 27, 2005, 12:56:12 PM
I just recieved a bucket of Baileys sealer. Anyone tried it? I'll post my thoughts on it as soon as I try it.
MH
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Gilman on April 27, 2005, 01:06:08 PM
I've used the Bailey's brand, about 10 gallons worth.  I think all of the wax based sealers work just about the same. 

Frank pointed out using a roller instead of a brush, works much quicker. 

Harbor freight had a cordless spray gun that I wanted to try.  I looked on their website, but can't find it anymore.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Engineer on April 27, 2005, 01:30:19 PM
I use Anchorseal, not a substitute.  I bought a hand pump sprayer from Tractor Supply and it clogged up almost immediately.   :(  I gotta figure out how to clean it out, I won't try that again.  You really need a special sprayer and some high pressure to spray it on.  On logs it works OK, but a lot of runs.  On planed timbers, forget it.   :(  What a mess.

The best way is with a wide brush or a trim roller - you can take the roller or brush and just seal it up in a plastic ziploc bag for the next time.    The stuff makes a huge difference.  I bucked up some black birch last week, couldn't get the anchorseal on fast enough.  It checked almost immediately.  I left some smaller pieces unsealed and they look like junk now.    Only way to cure end checking at a late stage is to cut the ends and try again.  It helps a lot on the drying pile too.

It's also made a huge difference on the ends of the timbers for my house frame - we have been sealing them after cutting and joinery, and they stay clean and unchecked, and the wax acts as a lubricant when you slide the joints together.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: maple flats on April 27, 2005, 06:59:03 PM
What is the shelf life of anchor seal? I think I will buy 5 gal but not if I need to use it in a very short time after opening it. I will not be sawing many sawlog trees this year, most of it will be firewood in a big thinning project to open up the canopy for the better stuf with only a little being big enough to saw into lumber. I do however have a few jobs for custom sawing lined up that I would like to have them seal as they saw. One is a guy cutting cherry who wants to get it done up into paneling to install in his new house with the trees on his property. I may also want to buy a couple od 2 gal cans to sell him to keep the logs better.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Engineer on April 28, 2005, 05:38:03 PM
I've had my pail for two years (not much milling until recently), and I am almost done with it.   It's just a wax emulsion, as long as you keep the lid on it, it should last a pretty long time. 

The local woodturner's group bought a 55 gallon drum of the stuff and they decant it into plastic cranberry juice bottles for the members to buy as needed.  Proceeds benefit the club.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Brad_S. on April 28, 2005, 06:25:51 PM
Just don't let it freeze or you'll have a big candle.  ;)
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: PawNature on September 28, 2005, 08:37:17 PM
It is my understanding that most tie buyers want 6" or more to allow for checking. Can you save that 6" if you coat in anchorseal.
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Tony_T on September 28, 2005, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Brad_S. on April 28, 2005, 06:25:51 PM
Just don't let it freeze or you'll have a big candle.  ;)

Anchorseal comes in a winter formula,still works in summer too.  I've been milling a lot of ash and if sealed right after bucking it really mades a big difference in checking.  One coat is good but a second is better
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Frank_Pender on September 28, 2005, 11:03:21 PM
Call the number again  (above), at this time.   Ask to speak with Grant Beldin.  They have all but been cut loose from Valspar, as I understand. 
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: AtLast on October 02, 2005, 05:04:24 PM
Im sure Anchor is a great product...but for the life of me cant understand WHY ANY of you dont just use simple Latex house paint...Ive use it for YEARS and it has ALWAYS done its job....again...Anchor is GREAT...BUT to get the " bang for your buck"....good ole Latex.....go to Home Depot or what ever and pick it up for 3 bucks a gallon...it will serve the same purpose...well..it has for me anyway....sealing the ends is the task.....Latex WILL do that and has for me over and over and over...do as u wish..BUT...I choose to use Latex paint for a HECK of alot cheaper than anything else....I seal EVERY log with it...and to date have had the same results....just my 2 cents worth......
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: beenthere on October 02, 2005, 05:32:42 PM
From what I understand;
Paraffin wax is the best water vapor seal against water vapor moving out of wood, which I suspect Anchorseal has this wax in it.
Usually the problem is to get the paraffin wax onto the wood.   Melted paraffin wax would be best, but it cools too fast before it gets into the wood cells, so it needs to be suspended in a liquid form (like with mineral spirits or fuel oil) to get it spread on and into the wood.
Latex paint doesn't restrict water vapor when painted on walls, so it likely can't be as good as paraffin wax, and likely not 'as good' as Anchorseal, but probably a whole much better than nothing at all. But, if it works good enough, then it sure is 'good enuff'   :) :)

Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Radar67 on October 02, 2005, 07:21:08 PM
Beenthere,
     Down here in the south part of the country, you could just about spread paraffin like butter in the summer heat.  :D
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Kirk_Allen on December 03, 2005, 07:24:18 PM
I do not recommend using paint of ANY kind.  I know it may seal the ends but paint is FULL of abrasives and it will dull you blades faster than using a water based wax sealer. 

Using paint also prevents you from seeing the grain, which depending on what your sawing is important to see. 
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: Mike_Barcaskey on December 03, 2005, 10:07:06 PM
please correct my thinking if wrong,
you can either buck your log to just about the exact length and put sealer on the end
or you can leave an allowance for the checking by bucking your log 4-8 inches longer than needed
so you either buy sealer and save log length
or save the money spent on sealer and lose a little log

now if using the latex paint, your saving the log and spending very little for the sealer and if Kirk is right (paint dulls blades faster) why not cut your log just 2 or 3 inches longer, seal with paint and cut a thin cookie off the end of the log when you go to mill it. of course you wont have the protective sealing after the boards are cut.
:D wrote all that just to answer my own question  :D

well I seal my good hardwoods with Anchorseal (or paint) and leave a 6" allowance on my softwoods for my presonal use
or I ask the mill i'm selling to what their preference is
Title: Re: End-sealing logs
Post by: dutchman on December 03, 2005, 10:26:55 PM
I started sealing with paraffin melted in boiled linseed oil.
Heat oil in 3# coffee can add one piece parafffin and stir.
Brush on.
Once melted the mix stays usable until cold.
Switched to Anchorseal to avoid possible fire.
I still cut lenghts oversize 6-8".