I was in Chattahoochee the other day visiting with a friend. As we sat on his front porch, I mentioned what a stout Red Oak that was in the corner of "his yard. "That's a Cherry Oak", says he. " ??? ", I thought. "Oh, you mean Cherrybark?" "Well the Foresters call it a Cherry Oak when they come by and measure it every year" he declared. The only reason I could think of that they were measuring it annually is that it must be a champion tree, so I dug out the list of Florida Champions via Google, and it is sure enough an Emeritus Champion Cherrybark Oak. I assume that means it was recorded as Champ until a slightly larger one was discovered in the next county over. Anyway, I found that interesting and thought some of you might, as well. ;)
Here's a pic I captured from Google Earth Street View:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10074/champ01.jpg)
Dang nice tree. ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Champion Trees are always special. I read in the paper this area is looking for Champion trees.
That's a nice oak. 8)
Not much chance up here for a champion tree as most woodlots and public land get the saw very frequently. A few old non marketable ones they left behind I suppose. All the woodlots around my area have been cut over in the last 30 years, so small second growth is what you see mostly.
I found a Georgia State Champion Shumard Oak in Oaky Woods Wildlife Management Area a few weeks ago. 50" in diameter and 150' tall. Forest tree growing in the bottomnland.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_0369.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_0370.JPG)
Also found a new champion persimmon, but I have not officially measured it yet.
Whoah. Nice oaks! Those open-grown cherrybarks can be impressive. Magicman has one on his place that is probably 7' in diameter. But there is really something special about those big forest grown oaks. Maybe it's that I'm picturing how much clear lumber is in them :D Not that I would ever want to cut it down :)
I think we all look at trees that way, Dodgy. When I look at a little pine sapling, I think to myself, "I could get 2 firring strips out of that!" :D :D
WDH, Your tree doesn't look all that old. Just big. That one would make a lot of perfect toothpicks. ;D
I am guessing maybe 80 to 100 years old.
That would make it one very fast growing tree. I would think this one might be a good seed source tree for improvement selection. ;D
They can grow real fast down here on a good site.
I saw a huge sugar maple on a site last fall. I was thinning in under it. It wouldn't be 50", but it was sure high 40" 's. Not 150 feet though, maybe 75'. The harvest crew left it, too big for the machines to handle. It was at least 300 years old. The site was hardwood, but not exceptional ground.
I'm not certain of the criteria for a champion tree .From what I see an old hollow oak with a big canopy can often qualify.Fact on another forum one was posted that looked like a good stiff wind would blow it over .
Conversely in a woods setting perhaps you might get a 4 foot diameter oak a hundred plus feet tall and straight as an arrow and solid as a rock but evidently these are of little importance to the people who dub the champions .I don't get it . ???
There is a formula to determine how many points a tree scores, Al. It is based on height, spread and diameter. Nobody "decides" which is champion. It is what it is.
That part I had heard .It seems to me though most are old trees that had grown in relatively open areas that had all the sunshine it could spread canopy to absorb .Might be 200-250 years old and cover an area the size of an urban building lot .Nice shade but worthless for lumber.
Same tree in the woods might be 3 feet at breast heigth and 65 feet to the first limb .Top out at over 100-120 with 20 foot of usable lumber log above the crotch .Then again I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder . ;D
The formula used by the National Register of Big Trees and most state champion tree registries is 1 pt. per inch of circumference + 1 pt. per foot of height + ¼ pt. per foot of average crown spread. It is supposed to give a rough approximation of the total tree volume, but in reality, the formula is biased towards short, fat, open-grown trees.
The National Registry of Big Trees makes allowances for actual volume to be used instead of the number provided by the formula, which is why the General Sherman sequoia is the national champion instead of the General Grant. The General Grant has a fatter butt, and therefore a larger "big tree number", but it also tapers more quickly. The General Sherman was proven to have a larger volume, so it is the current champion. This exception to the rule is only used for exceptional specimens (like the sequoias).
Bottom line: the champion tree registries are more concerned with total tree volume than with how pretty a tree is or how much lumber is in it.
I don't disagree that some of those magnificently canopied old oaks aren't a wonder to behold .
What I guess bothers me is several that for all intents look so rotten I'd be leary of living in a house next to them .The damage a big fat tree can do to a house is unreal .On the other hand I've seen some big ones lay over and never break a shingle on the roof .How I have no idea .
In the Big Tree system, multitrunked trees are also penalized. They only allow the measurement of one trunk for circumference. We have seen really big desert trees that fork at ground level that are beat out by smaller trees with a single trunk. We talked about changing the formula to allow a calculation of what would be the combined trunk at dbh based upon total area, then calculating what the circumference of that area would be if it were 1 trunk. Nobody was interested.
Until I read this post, I had no idea there was a champion tree register. Come to find out, Virginia actually ranks fourth. Funny though that the registry says there is no entry for Eastern White Oak. There are numerous large White Oaks so why no nominees? Could I nominate some?
It seems fairly easy to measure the diameter of a tree but exactly how do you measure the height and the average crown?
Measure the circumference in inches, measure height by measuring a known distance from the trunk and the angle to the tree crown, then do the trigonometry, measure average crown width with a tape from one side where the edge of the crown is straight up, past the trunk to the other side straight up. Then measure the crown spread at 90° to the first one in the same way, then average the two. Not that tough, just takes the time, a way to measure the angle and a tape measure. Also helps if you have some kind of level if the ground is not level.
It's relatively easy to measure height with a surveyers transit and trigonometry.All you need is one side and the angle .Of course a good laser range finder just spits out the measurement with a press of the button .
Use a carpenter's square with a level bubble, look along the 45 until you just see the tip of the tree as you walk backwards. Tan of 45 is 1, so measure from your standing position to the trunk and add height from ground to eye level. Do it on the level. Iif not, on the same contour across slope. Don't even need to calculate anything, just read the tape. Well, I suppose add the eye level height is a calculation. ;) :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_level-2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_tree_height1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_tree_height2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_tree_height3.jpg)
Doesn't need to be in the middle of winter. :D
Swampish,good on you I've used the same method .Pretty darn accurate too .
Clinometers are instruments that Foresters use to measure height, at least in the South :).
Way to go, SD, giving away the easy way. :(
Quote from: Thehardway on March 24, 2014, 03:15:04 PM
Until I read this post, I had no idea there was a champion tree register. Come to find out, Virginia actually ranks fourth. Funny though that the registry says there is no entry for Eastern White Oak. There are numerous large White Oaks so why no nominees? Could I nominate some?
It seems fairly easy to measure the diameter of a tree but exactly how do you measure the height and the average crown?
Hey Hardway, did you try looking on the Virginia Tech big tree registry? It's bigtree.cnre.vt.edu (hope the link is ok) I think that is the semi-official one for Virginia. It has numerous whopper white oaks/quercus alba listed in the state champion rankings. One of the bigger ones (#4 on the list) is up here in Charlottesville near me - it's at the South end of the airport runway inside the security fence. But, like someone else posted it's sometimes a case of that's the biggest one anyone has nominated. I saw a white oak in Buckingham county that I believe was bigger than the Charlottesville oak, it was in the backyard of a house that the owner said dated to the early 1700's. I had a picture of it on my old phone, but the phone got crunched, I'll have to go back and get a new picture if I'm ever down that way.
OK, I figured it would involve math ;D I think I can handle the Carpenters sqaure method. I found the VT site and yes it does have several white oaks listed but why aren't they on the national register? One of the largest listed at 410 was only about 15 mi. from my house at Chatham Hall. It was a famous landmark for the school. Unfortunately it seems 2013 marked its last year. Likewise a storm took down another significant Oak, the one at oak tree turn at Virginia International Raceway. About 45 min from my home. It was an integral part of the speedways history and part of their logo. http://virnow.com/2013/07/02/oak-tree-down-2/ It is going to be cloned by VT. 2012/2013 was a hard couple years for Virginia's giant oaks, (not to mention it was the year for Cicada's)
I have a large white oak on my land and there is a very large White oak with enormous crown just up the road from my house. The last couple years it has begun to show some signs of decline and there is some dying off in one of its central branches. I suspect it may have oak wilt. :( I will try to snap a picture on my way home tonight and post it. It is one I considered nominating. I would estimate its age at close to 200 yrs.
Quote from: mesquite buckeye on March 24, 2014, 11:06:26 PM
Way to go, SD, giving away the easy way. :(
I couldn't make them work. My eyes don't focus on the same point, at least not when I'm looking through a lense with my right eye. My left eye kind of wanders around. Maybe if I had one to play with I could get better at it, or just move my head to one side so that I can use one eye to check both views.
Here are two oaks nearby my house. The first is the one I mentioned in decline. You can see the dead limbs, I looked closer and it appears it has split in the middle, perhaps hit by lightning? You can see this in the second picture. It has two main branches but they begin above the 4.5' mark in the 3rd picture.
The 4th picture is another oak about 100yds away. It is actually considerably larger in height and probably circumference but is growing crooked and has a less symmetrical crown. Still a majestic tree. Curious to see which one scores higher. Maybe I will get around to measure them this spring.
The last picture is the Oak at VIR. I expect the track will look much different when I take my son to the race this weekend. We will miss our old friend! There are several others around I hope to check out. Some of them are amazing specimens.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/2014-03-26_19-06-19_177.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/2014-03-26_19-07-00_23.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/2014-03-26_19-06-47_893.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/2014-03-26_19-06-30_171.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/VIRoak.jpg)
I like that last picture.
Beside my FIL house the neighbor has a maple that is split like that oak. They drilled through the tree and put a one inch threaded rod and big washers to hold it together and from splitting more. Not all that big of a tree,maybe 1½ feet across. A wind storm made it open up.
there is a lot of 16in blocks in them trees ;D ;D