The Deere rep told my boss there will be no more 548 skidders built for the US because they can't fit all the emissions under the hood. They will still be produced for Canada. I'd doesn't bother us as we run 648s but we have no equipment brands left except a handful and they only make large equipment. I wouldn't won't a 10' 8" wide skidder in my hardwood thining. Anyone else hear this?!
I haven't heard that, but I agree with you on the size issue. I'm using a TJ208 for some selective pine harvesting right now. I have no winch, and was offered the use of a TJ450. I said I didn't want to cut down my leave trees to get to the ones I wanted to harvest. :D Neighbors had some oak cut this winter. He sued a TJ360D/JD540. A nice size machine.
cat bought out prentice deere bought out timberjack and tigercat is still tigercat so that is the big three and the new machines are not small love my 1986 tj240 small powerful, stable and relatively cheap to fix
It was a shame when deere did away with the 340-440 sized machines. If you look closely, and compare specs a 604C tigercat smokes a 640H, and thats a "small" machine. Hard to explain to landowners when they see the size of them.
You can't buy any small skidders or dozers any more...American made. Not everyone wants a D8 to move a little dirt or a 748 to pull a little firewood. The "Tree Huggers" want emissions levels to zero when they give us dinosaur pith for fuel. The Europeans have clean burn also but do it with fuel. Their Cetane rating is a lot higher than ours. They also make some dandy small equipment. Seems all American made machinery is made for the Big businessman and he just passes the costs down to the small guy....the consumer. I have people all the time ask me if I want to sell my C4. The perfect little machine for firewood and some logs. In America, education has sometimes got in the way of Common Sense.
We were told that this is the last year also by a Jonn deer dealer.
I like my TJ240. Everything is getting bigger, bigger is not always better and as mentioned before big machine for doing a little work is not what everyone wants. I have a hard enough time explaining my 240 is on the small end of a skidder to homeowners when I pull up with the low bed. Oh well
Quote from: HiTech on April 11, 2014, 05:50:11 AM
In America, education has sometimes got in the way of Common Sense.
Amen! smiley_thumbsup
It almost seems too,if companies can't make 4 million profit on a product,then it's not worth their time,while another product makes 10 million.
here I go in some towns you have to stay 25ft from property lines ok the lot is only 100ft wide x 2000ft long the skidders of today 10.6-12.6 wide that don't leave much room do any thing the little franklin, JD ,tj, tf pb, international, mf and more could have no trouble on a lot like that did not need permits to move them and great on fuel or gas been looking for a small one but no luck not going to pay 20-30 grand for one that's beat to death look at the prices of the 440c 18-25 grand they were not that much new they need to start making them smaller the property today is getting smaller not bigger ;D
If someone could make a small skidder and sell it for a profit, they would. There just isn't much of a market for them, as much as those of us who use them love them. How many of us could afford to buy a new small skidder if someone made one?
John Deere could make a new 440 and they would sell. With the farm equipment side they could come up with something smaller and affordable.
Quote from: barbender on April 11, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
If someone could make a small skidder and sell it for a profit, they would. There just isn't much of a market for them, as much as those of us who use them love them. How many of us could afford to buy a new small skidder if someone made one?
Agreed, look at Awasso's line. Their MD-80 is a very modern version of a 440 size machine.
they are a nice looking skidder
The 440D shared axles with certain farm tractors. When they phased out those tractors the skidder went too. Hate to say it but the market isnt there for a small machine for someone cutting wood fulltime. I couldnt put out enough with a 440D, went to a fellerbuncher and forwarder-slasher and the rest is history. Yes my trails are a touch wider, but even a skilled hand cutter doesnt hold a candle to a Timbco as far as smash and breaking tops.
I was thinking of that Awassos skidder, they looked slick but no one was flocking to them with cash it seems. I seem to remember reading some comments balking at the price for what was just a "little skidder" ::) What are they, around $80K?
They are a neat little machine, but I dont see them holding up in the northeast. Maybe cutting softwood or firewood in Quebec maybe. You can still buy a 240-440-405 for reasonable money and be 1/3-1/2 the price and do 2x as much.
The Biggest Problem of the Day is Inflation. Nixon took us of the Gold Standard. Reagan began Deregulating Banking. They needed to pay for the Little Wars we were in. With the Inflated dollar it was easy. With inflation came higher wages which caused more inflation. When someone at a factory gets $30/hr. to screw valve stem caps on tires you can't expect low priced equipment. Farmers and loggers made a good living with small equipment. John Deere for one started making equipment that needed lots of horsepower for it to run, thus the need for big tractors. The same size farms but just bigger equipment. Skidders got bigger, the need to put more wood on the ground to pay for them. Thus fellerbunchers. More wood needed to pay for these. Now million dollar chippers. Sooner or later the markets will be flooded to the point wood will be worth nothing. We are in a vicious cycle. Go Big or Go Home. What are they going to Inflate to pay for these last wars we are in now. It use to be one shot, one kill. Now 5,000 rounds for one casualty.
I couldnt agree more. Try and find help and explain to them you wont pay them 30 an hour to swing dirt or cut wood. The problem is to find a balance for the "go big or go home" way of thinking. My father talks about buying 2 complete undercarriage's for 10k when I was a kid. Just put 1 on a few weeks ago, for almost 10k.
I agree with all that. It's just crazy. I'm only 26 and in the ten years I've been hauling wood it's changed night and day. Just yesterday I had the cab up on one of the 670 hydro axs we run and I was slowly putting gear oil in ($7 a quart) and looking things over. Told the boss this would have been a space ship 30-40 years ago and that's only half of one mans life. Look how far we've come. Just don't know if it's for the better
When I go to a forestry show and walk around looking at the equipment it blows my mind how big everything has gotten. Tigercats I can't imagine pulling into a woodlot here with one of them ;D. On top of that what one of them would cost.
With the speed of the modern log proccesor,a big skidder that can move lots of wood is a must.We have a 648 and it barely keeps up with our stroker.lot of times we have to have the 528 skid with the 648 just to keep me busy
One of our 648s skids 100-150 cord a day to our slasher. No a 548 wouldn't
Wonder what is going to happen to all the Big Equipment when there is no more large lots to cut? Sooner or later that will happen. Trees don't grow as fast as they are being cut. With one or two big outfits it wouldn't matter, but more are popping up everyday. With that more chips and more logs are in the market. Production will get ahead of demand. At one time 100,000 ft of wood/logs was a good winters work, now it wouldn't pay for a weeks worth of diesel fuel for these big boys. I know of a place where the White Pine are so Big they haven't made equipment yet big enough to handle them. I am sure with enough cutting with a Big Chainsaw one could get them on the ground but after that I don't know what you would do. You couldn't chip them, no sawmill around here could cut them. I guess that is why they are still here. Whenever I feel down in the dumps i walk back to this spot and just look at the Wonders of Mother Nature. These are truly magnificent trees for New York State. It's over a 3 mile walk so not many of the Great White Hunters ever get that far off the road.
where Im at the grapple skidders are sized to work with the feller bunchers/hydro axes and they are HUGE. The forwarders are paired with the processors and they are HUGE. I think when the chainsaw got replaced the little skidders and forwarders became a thing of the past...except to us.
I run a 4510 Iron Mule 18.4-26 tires 8'6 wide.When I was shopping for mine I had a few to choose from,good machines from 8-10,000 dollars now 5 years later they are on craigslist 17-18,000. I think if you have a nice small machine it can only go up in value they are going to be increasingly hard to find.
And the guys with little forwarders/skidders 8'6" or not much bigger are gonna get the work ,the next guys not a little bigger..he'll look insanely bigger to the landowner.
I also use a 6 foot wide dozer to skid with ( blade is 7'9" but it angles) to skid and my skid roads you cant even get a pickup down.Of course I also don't use the dozer without a good snow pack..the tracks in dirt in the woods would be a disaster.
I'd love to see a company build some smaller logging equipment again.
HiTech, I'd love to see those big pine someday. It's nice to know there are a few left.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on April 13, 2014, 08:32:00 PM
HiTech, I'd love to see those big pine someday. It's nice to know there are a few left.
The woodlot im on right now has 50-60 pines over 3ft @ the stump, the next woodlot over has a grove of them well over 4ft dbh. Ive seen more nice white pine out in eastern mass than I could saw in a lifetime. The wood is out there if you look.
You have stuff like this? The logs off of this job were 47'-3". The biggest was 22" tip. They were cut for us by bill m. I'm getting calls for stuff in the 50'+ range.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/1621/DSC_0936.JPG)
Yup. Hemlock...pine... even got some oak close to that. Just took an order for 20k of hemlock cut 26' for a new barn. The stuff is out there but you have to look for it.
I,ve got big White pine here too. a few scattered that survived the logging era in Michigan in the 1880's.assuming they were too small back then.I have 2 railroad grade that end in my property and going east from the one you find the big old stumps leftover you can still see where they were notched on one side and back cut with a crosscut saw.
But going farther you come to the break of a hill and over the hill thers about 10-15 acrea with none of those old stumps and several white pine 100-110 inch circumference at breast height.Im thinking that the size they were back then and the hill they would have to bring them up and distance from the banking ground..They walked away leaving me a little virgin White Pine!
I believe 120 inches around gives you a 3 foot diameter..Ive got dozens that would make that..not breast height but at the butt log. And for length...The Aspen Im cutting is at 130 feet and the pines look a little taller.
To me it always seems a little quieter in the pines....Id never cut them.
I would guesstomate lol some of these pines are close to 150' to 200' tall. I don't think 3 men could put their arms around them and touch fingers. Probably one tree per trailer would make the DOT drool. lol It would take one heck of a loader to pick these up in 40 or 50 foot lengths. Most are around what I call the "Pug Hole". It almost looks like an old volcano but I don't think it ever was. Could be where a meteor hit a long time ago. It is a big hole in the ground with high sides and is almost perfectly round. There is water in the middle and bog like stuff on the outer edges. These trees surround it. It is far enough off the road where man hasn't caused any damage....yet. It's something to see.
HiTech... Id love to see pictures of those trees if there is any way possible.Im sold on that being heaven on earth.
the "pug hole" sounds like a kettle bog.
Quote from: 240b on April 16, 2014, 07:45:57 AM
the "pug hole" sounds like a kettle bog.
You can't really call it a Kettle Bog. The sides of this hole are over a 100' high. It is all gravel and stone. It looks just like an inactive volcano but it isn't. I thought once maybe a meteor struck it but I have no idea why it has the shape it has. Standing on the sides and looking down it looks like a very, very large funnel. there is a good size pond in the middle with boggy material around the edges.
Might be an ancient sink hole of some sort. What's the cave situation in your area? :D We have spots on our farm that open up due to the network of caves. I had one open up on my lawn that took a yard of dirt to fill in. Obviously it would have been quite an event if that was how it was formed.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on April 16, 2014, 01:28:01 PM
Might be an ancient sink hole of some sort. What's the cave situation in your area? :D We have spots on our farm that open up due to the network of caves. I had one open up on my lawn that took a yard of dirt to fill in. Obviously it would have been quite an event if that was how it was formed.
I was thinking that. We have caves but not in that area that I know of. Mostly gravel with woods dirt over it. There are some rock ledges also. Its had to been there for a long time. It looks like the top of a mountain that just caved in.
When I as in the Yucatan area of Mexico..they had what they called "cenotes"..many were perfectly circular holes with side walls straight down 100+ feet or more.These were filled with water.Looks like what you described...with a lot lower water table.These where formed..like Dave mentioned ..when the roof of an underground cave fell in.Or a sinkhole. This area was all limestone though.
Did you see that Corvette museum where the hole floor fell in sucking in like a million dollars worth of cars? 8 cars I think..Does it seem like it could be that? just much older..and much bigger?
Maybe a large chunk of glacial ice was buried and then melted, leaving a big sinkhole.