Greetings men, new member here. First post, looking for a little guidance. I've been kicking the idea of purchasing a skidder for a few years and have decided to go for it. Internet searches brought me to the Forestry Forum and I have learned a lot, thank you.
I live in Western Mass and have a little over 100 acres of forest, almost all hardwood, probably 70% red maple, with the remainder red and white oak, ash, black cherry, little sugar maple and birch, and some white pine, and one chestnut that I know of (forester found it). The property was timbered 15 years ago before I bought it. I cut between 15-20 cord a year for my outside boiler and the extra for family and friends. I have been using a 40hp 4wd New Holland tractor with a Farmi Winch and chains all the way around. I only cut from January to March/April. With frozen ground and minimal snow, I have been very happy with my system, but there are limitations. Four years ago we had over 3' of snow on the ground for the entire winter, I had to buy wood that year. This past winter, we had over 2' of snow on the ground for over 6 weeks. My little tractor cannot move in that much snow. This past winter I plowed a couple of the roads, but dragging trees through that much snow is just hard on a small machine. In addition to being shut down due to snow, I am stuck to the two or three logging roads I have kept open and improved, and one more that I started to build last year. My forester wants me to cut between 100-150 cords to open the forest up. I have many small oaks that are being crowded by the red maple. For what I would get for this wood, I prefer to cut it myself and sell it at the landing.
From what I have learned from the Forestry Forum, I am looking for a TJ 225 or 230, or a Deere 440B/C or 540B. From what I have read, I would prefer the TJ due to ease and cost of maintenance (I had a Deere 350 crawler loader, and I understand the price of JD parts). I have also learned with the TJ, Eaton is preferred over Rockwell, and standard transmissions are more desirable than autos.
My questions to those that know; Is any one series of TJ more desirable than another? (E being most desirable?). Anything to stay away from? Should I expand my search to larger machines (Franklin 170, TJ 240, etc)? My concern with the larger machines is doing more damage. How much more expensive are the larger machines (read 4-53) to run? Presently I use 10-15 gallons all winter (yes, I know that will change :-\). What am I missing? Advice? I have seen a 225 and 230, what is the size difference between a 240? Franklin 170?
My budget is +/- $15K. Obviously less is better, but I will go higher if it is worth it. I've got an idea what to look for at used machines, but am eager to learn more before I drop that kind of cash. I've looked at a few already, and honestly, have been disappointed with what I have seen. I guess great condition means different things to different people. I'm hoping to find a solid, dependable machine that I can count on for years to come.
Thanks for your help.
Erik
Ive found that the cleaner skidders arent up in the northeast anymore. I recently bought a 450C in northern NH and time will tell. Ive been around the older deeres, for the money spend the extra and buy a D series if your set on a deere, a 540B isnt a bad machine either. You have to kinda figure out what your going to do with it, cutting 150 cord doesnt take to long with even an older cable skidder.
EFR,welcome to the forum. Glad to hear you are taking care of your land. I also have a 40hp NH with a winch that I play with on my land and an OWB,Outdoor Wood Boiler,too. Good luck with your search. Take your time and keep looking.
you're in the same dilemma I'm in. I'm extremely tempted to buy a garrett out west and have the dang thing trucked. I figured I'd be all in for less than these east coast machines by far!
I have a 230 tj with a 353 DT and std trans, it is one tuff skidder and very easy on fuel for the amount of work you can do with it. Also very stable on hills. Also easy to get in and out of the cab, It won't tire you out nearly as much as climbing up an down on other brands. Those franklin 170's are a huge machine twice the size as a tj 230. Most of those 170 have a power shift trans and can be very expensive to rebuild. If I were you I'd go with a 200 series tj their a very simple machine, easy to fix in the field and most parts can be had at local auto parts stores. There's a place in belcher town mass the specializes in 200 series tj parts and has most things in stock. One other thing the tj's hold their value should ever sell it.
Quote from: Brokermike on April 17, 2014, 08:55:53 AM
you're in the same dilemma I'm in. I'm extremely tempted to buy a garrett out west and have the dang thing trucked. I figured I'd be all in for less than these east coast machines by far!
that is a SKOOKUM idea Brokermike! Welcome EFR! You have done a lot of homework! I was going to suggest the same as mike did, that is look outside your area, trucking costs are not terrible, and there are lots of good used skidders around. Don't discount other brands, ie International S series, Garrett, Mountain, CanCar, Clark. TJ's are great, but if you don't find one, just sayin.
Welcome to the forum EFR Pretty easy to find a good old timberjack here in NB for the $15K you are looking to spend. Trucking would even be reasonable if you were not in a big hurry. One easy way to look would be to check kijiji which is a popular buy and sell website here in Canada. Lots of olds jacks get listed there. Kijiji New Brunswick has several listed now.
another brand to consider is tree farmer, you could find a nice c5 or c6 around that ball park.
Do you guys back east not have cat skidders?I know I am new here,but the few threads I`v read on skidders,I have yet to see anyone talk about cat skidders.Are they too expensive or junk or what?I`v run 518`s quite a bit and don`t like them,but thats because I`v run 528`s a lot and the difference is night and day.
I hope I`m not coming across as a smart butt,I have a genuine interest because I have never even heard of some of the skidders you all are talking about.
yea a few cats here, they are good machines. parts are high. JD is the only dealer left close by.
no offence to any one but I don't care much for the manual TJs and franklins.
where you from chainsaw?
I`m in south central oregon.Little town named Lakeview.
Men: Thanks for all the advice and help. It truly is appreciated.
Ken: I have never thought about buying a machine sight unseen. What do you folks do: take the drive and look, pay someone local to inspect? I have seen what appeared to be good deals out west.
Chainsaw: There are a few Cat's around here. Two 518's for sale in NH. I didn't pay much attention to them for I had heard they are thirsty and expensive to fix. What is your experience with them?
I am looking at a 1977 TJ240 tomorrow. Not exactly what I am looking for, but the price may be right.
Thanks again.
My experience with 518`s has been logging saw logs.We have white fir and yellow pine here,some western red cedar.One outfit I worked for used to get 21000 to 28000 board feet per day with the average stem being around 14"dbh.Seems it would burn 30 or 40gals.per 10 hour shift.that might be a high estimate,it`s been a dozen or so years since I ran one.
You are very correct about them being expensive to fix,they are tough little machines though.
Quote from: EFR on April 17, 2014, 11:48:33 PM
Ken: I have never thought about buying a machine sight unseen. What do you folks do: take the drive and look, pay someone local to inspect? I have seen what appeared to be good deals out west.
When I take a notion to buy something I spend a lot of time on the road looking at gear. Costs money but usually pays off. Also have the added benefit of seeing the countryside. Another option would be to do some searching on the net and if you find one that looks interesting there is a pretty good chance that someone here on the FF lives close by and might take a look for you. Good luck
Welcome EFR. If you are not in a rush it will pay to look at a lot of iron. I am biased to TJ's. One thing to consider is the terrain of your land. TJ is less tippy and does well on slopes. As a side note I spell my name the same as you. Not to many Erik's with a "K". Good luck on your search
Welcome to the forum EFR, just my 2 cents,.....
I started with a TJ 205 ( Ford diesel). Great machine, easy on fuel, pulled strong, had it for 10 years with nothing more than regular mtce and a few minor repairs. Bought a 240E (453 Jimmy) to replace it, only pulling my own firewood for the most part. It works great, still good on fuel, but realistically, for what I need, the 205 was just as good. 5 gallons of fuel would go all day. I appreciate the bigger machine here with the snow load (chained up) but otherwise the little 205 was all a guy needs for a hobby machine. The only downside to them is drivetrain parts if, or when you need them, such as planetaries, etc. Overall I'd say a 230 with a Hercules winch is ideal, not too big, lots of power, simple to work on. Just wear your ear plugs and enjoy :)
I agree with upnorth the. 230d is the way to go. Parts are easy to get, good on fuel and the easiest to get in and out of.
I'd like a 200 series timberjack with a 6BT Cummins, hydrostatic transmission and a dual function grapple. Oh, and heat and AC. :) And maybe satellite radio.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on April 18, 2014, 08:59:02 PM
I'd like a 200 series timberjack with a 6BT Cummins, hydrostatic transmission and a dual function grapple. Oh, and heat and AC. :) And maybe satellite radio.
This 450C ive got is 10ft wide which isnt to bad. The dual arch is fast, and she is quick. Tomorrow she goes to the woods. Radio works well... 8)
I really appreciate all the help gentlemen, thank you.
I looked at a 240 today with 4-53. Waste of time. 3 hour ride, machine wouldn't start (40 degrees). Owner used a fair amount of ether, started, let it warm up for a minute. Put machine in gear, went forward about ten feet, machine lurched, the motor 'popped' and would not start again. I thanked the fellow for his time and left. Back to the classifieds...
Can anyone tell me the difference between the Timberjack D and E models?
My land is rolling hills, little bony in places, several streams running throughout.
If you see a can of "summertime" for a machine and its not 20 or below, somethings wrong. Getting good pictures ahead of time, especially working pictures saves alot of time, 90% of people have a smart phone anymore.
What ever you look at check on parts and dealer support. Some machines are getting very hard to get new or even used parts for. :P Also as a rule popular brands resell well when you are done with your project. :)
If you were talking about the 518's in Campton,they belong to a friend of mine , they are in good running order. The older cats with the 3304 engine have glow plugs, they never need any ether no matter how cold.Don
Awesome gallery loggah Dan. I want that big Clark to drive to the store.
For 15000 I would think u would be able to find a real good machine. Just take your time. I gave 3500 for mine and may have 4000 total in it. It leaks a little and burns a little oil but is reliable and fits my needs to a T. Part Timer with 90 acres. I cut 3 or 4 loads a year and my firewood. Slowly but surely. Leaving the best behind for retirement and enough hemlock for the wintering deer. Plus it keeps me from getting fat. :-)
Is a 240A too big? How much more fuel will a 4-53 use compared to a 3-53? I see more 240's than 225 or 230's.
Depends on the rubber and axles. Narrow rubber and narrow axles makes for a tippy machine. If it was my choice I would go 240, youve got just enough machine to get alot done without being super huge either. A 453 isnt that bad on fuel, I have a 353 in my forwarder and she will go 3 days on a tank holding 20 gallons.
You need 230a or 240a. ...great for hills....all around good machine
Welcome to the Forum EFR!..Let me throw out another option It may not be what you want or maybe it wont work in your application but have you considered a forwarder? They should be a bunch in your price range.Yes they have limitations but have you thought about it?
Check out my post from a month ago..I think it s titled" Logging this winter" or something like that.I too log in the winter and I use a forwarder and a dozer for a skidder.I know that in a lot of ways the dozer is a compromise over a skidder..but I already own it.It has a lot of other uses though I don't need to point out what.
Dozer is bad in the woods without enough snow to keep your tracks out of the dirt but I don't use it until I get the right amount of snow...which doesn't take long in Northern Michigan.Dozers bad on any long pull but I skid to small landings and use the forwarder from there.
Ok so I guess Im saying because you log in window consider a dozer IF you can make it pay with its wide range of other work options the rest of the year.
Consider a forwarder IF you have reasonable terrain and if you can buy it right.its nice that your not dragging anything if you do something not in winter..and it can load trailers and stack and do it all.
Not saying either option is better or maybe even as good as a skidder,just trying to broaden your range of options
I own a little over a hundred acres and cut firewood for me and some of my family. I have been thinking the same thing that Beemer expressed the whole time I was reading this thread. A forwarder seemed to be a very good option. I have a old cobbled together S8 international and as old Iron mule. I find that I hardly ever need the S8, the Iron mule is just about as easy to maneuver it the woods and it will skid out a pretty hefty log. That little three cylinder perkins is very easy on the fuel.
Everyone, thanks for the help. It is truly appreciated. I was hoping to look at a machine this weekend, but can't get the gentleman to return my call. Maybe its sold already.
Bemers and Nastcat:
I never really considered a forwarder for a couple of reasons: First, more to go wrong. I borrowed a forwarder from a friend when I was clearing a house lot. Decent machine, but sooo much more to go wrong (hoses, parts, grapples, etc). The second reason is the way I cut. I have an outside boiler and when I cut, I take the whole tree out with the exception of under 2-2.5" branches. I bring the hitch in front of the stove, cut off everything under +/- 3.5-4", then drag the hitch to the woodpile and limb it an cut it straight, then stack. The small stuff I mix in with seasoned wood (keeps the woods clean and makes good coals at same time). I don't think a forwarder would fit in as well.
Here's a picture of the crew. Don't get much work out of them, but they're fun to be around.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36079/Hunter_Loki_TC.jpg) [/img]