I have a guy that might want to sell his forwarder so I would like to know so info on them.
It is a. ' 84 model year, has a 353 DT. Has a serco 4000 and cranab grapple. Also has a long bunk on it. What can you tell me?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20140319_184802.jpg)
Looks kinda like that ? Ive had mine 4 years. Handy machine, hold 3-4 cord or 2kbft. The detroit 353 is set up diff than a skidder, little more expensive. That loader is a good loader, she stacks good to about 15ft. Depends how she has been taken care of.
Yeah looks kinda like that just orange. He has owned it the last twelve years, hasn't used it much the last couple years. It has new cradle pins and bushings, center pins and bushings, new swing motor, rebuilt trans and reverser and steering pins. It's getting a new panitary and rear wheel seals this week. He the type of guy if something isn't right it gets fixed right away. Says runs good but motor has some hours on it. What's it worth? I don't know much about forwarders .
Mine shows orange paint all over... 8)
What size tires ? Hours dont scare me, I bet mine has over 15k hours on it. Swentons in Lake George rebuilt my engine shortly after I bought it. They are set up different than the skidders. If its been maintained, and in decent shape its worth 25k. It will haul a pile of firewood, but they are tippy. If I was to do it again, I would drop a 4BT into mine, actually takes less room. The motor come out of that in 3 hours flat. Been there done that.
Tires I'm not sure of, thanks for the info.
Quote from: logman81 on April 26, 2014, 10:06:37 PM
Tires I'm not sure of, thanks for the info.
23.1 minimum and even then she will pick 1 side when running the loader. 28L would be better. Ive got info on parts and filters if you buy it let me know.
Thanks bargemonkey I'll let you know. Probably going to have to sell my 230d if he decides to sell it. Never ran a forwarder before probably a learning curve with one I'm sure.
I have a 94 with short bunk and a cummins, they are tough machines but check the mast out for cracks never seen one that wasn't welded on had mine totally rebuilt, the swing motors are mounted upside down so it allows water in so it is important to change oil esp in the fall or when it gets cold you can be out there with a torch trying to thaw it out, my biggest concern would be mobility, mine doesn't get around great and with that long wheel base I would think you would need alot of room to navigate, I guess if you're mainly in clear cuts it wouldn't be much of an issue
How do these machines oscillate, with a pin in the front axle cradle or between the frame halves. I'm just wondering how they get their stability for loading. The Ponsse I run oscillates in the center section, and has a lock that engages whenever you use the loader. It works kind of like a disc brake and prevents the frames from oscillating.
Barbender I think they have a walking beam front axle.
Forwarder is nice, but its not as mobile as a skidder. Mine takes quite a bit of room to turn around. Yeah the swing motors find water on mine, I change them once a year. When you start unloading the heavy stuff you will learn how to slide the wood off the bunks, when almost empty she will get tippy. They arent a bad machine, you can pre bunch in the woods and haul out with that from one skid road. We tend to use ours on the long skids or private roads, doesnt make much mud compared to a log truck.
Could put chains on and load the tires to help with stability!
I have a set of trygg ice chain for the front, not really a traction thing, its a steering in the icy snow thing. That poor 353 has all it can do get out of its way sometimes, loading the tires may reduce what extra HP youve got, and make you even heavier. Ive never buried mine, and ive hauled to the axles in mud. Had the chains on it 1x in 4 years, they are excellent machines for traction, because your never going somewhere fast. 8)
Ya your probably right, wasn't sure if it would be under powered or not. I've never ran a forwarder so I know nothing about how to run one. I do a lot of TSI work and some of my own lots that I get with nice saw logs. I do all my cutting by hand. Any tips or tricks you care to share on running it. You say the serco 4000 loaders are good, what makes them good?
The picker is only 17ft of reach, you cant reach off the back but can basically work from about the blade back to the rear tire. The loader is tough, if your hoses are ran right and protected you wont have much trouble. My bucket is tired, quite a bit of slop and we just keep it greased well. Forwarder is handy if your moving alot of firewood, or sorting on the header. I used mine to pile before I had a landing loader, I bet ive stacked 1500 cords of firewood with it. I recently converted mine to joystick, was worth the money. Its not an offroad machine like a skidder, but if your not in mountainous terrain they are nice. She will make ruts, we run it on the long skids, bunch in the woods and forward the wood on the 1/2-1 mile skids. Leaves a clean header. They are a bit hard to work on, the old jacks wherent mechanic friendly, at least mines not. The 353 really doesnt use much fuel, but the tanks not that large on those.
As long as you dont get carried away, that loader will grab and pick anything you want. Empty and fully loaded are when you are in trouble for flopping it, half loaded its a tank. Once you get the hang of it they are smooth. I used mine for 4 months cleaning up storm debris and stumps after hurricane irene. Check the lift cylinder, guys tend to smash them on the bunks. The transmission in those are high geared, 5spd. When we hit 5th in mine coming back we joke about being cleared for take off... if it has 18.4 tires on it I would be careful, 23.1 is even a small tire on them. They are a pain to move, I have 32 pieces of equipment, from large track screen plants to excavation equipment, Timbco, and that forwarder fits the worst on my lowboy, looks like a monkey f$#% ing a football.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20140321_142526.jpg)
Thats a decent load of shorter saw logs on the back, header was there but we where going 3/4 mile down a private road and stacking on the main road.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20140218_154749.jpg)
Glass and heater in the cab is nice. Ive had some massive hemlock on the bunks, anything over 19ft is hard to handle, you have to stack directly to the right of the cab to reach out far enough. Stacking 8-16ft stuff is easy. Making a pile 15ft tall isnt to hard with that loader.
Nice looking machine! What year?
I think its an 86-87. Bought it from a guy over in vermont, he got it from a guy in Canada. Motor had a tick when I bought it, got about 400 hours out of it, then it ate a cam gear and dropped a valve. Re did the engine and put a clutch in it.Put a new pump in it, and have rebuild a few cylinders. Recently converted it to joystick, heat and glass. I figure ive got 35k in it, she sits alot sometimes but is handy when you need it. Another one of those big brown bags full of money purchases. 8) Working a tugboat job to support my logging habit.
I have thought about buying a forwarder after I pay some other stuff off like you said they come in handy at times. Its either that or a yard loader pull thru and a slasher
If you have 2 skidders and arent doing alot of TSI work or smaller jobs buy a landing loader, it is so nice to have a slasher. Im looking into a stripper delimber right now for all the small hemlock I cut.
Thanks bargemonkey I appreciate your input very much.
It makes an awesome avatar either way. :o
Yes it does! Did some driving around town today and saw a logger cutting on a white pine lot didn't see the guy or what type of machine he was using. But judging by how nice the logs were piled and sorted out and no drag marks from the logs I'd say he's using a forwarder. Seems more and more loggers are using them now. I'm going to take another ride by and see if I can get a pic of the machine, maybe introduce myself to.
For a firewood and decent log job thats flat you cant beat a forwarder. We figured it takes about 12-16 trees to fill the bunk depending on size. Another local guy has a 6 wheel franklin and a new timberpro with a 650H bunching, he does some of the nicest work you cant tell 1 year later.
The land around here is pretty flat, some hills but nothing to serious. I'm thinking it's worth making the change then. Might as well join the band wagon so I can be competitive with the other loggers. Guess all that's left to do is wait to see if he's going to sell it and if I can afford it. If he does decided to sell it and it's in my price range I'll be selling my 230D to buy it.
Bargemonkey what was the reason for going to joystick control? Was it hard to do ?
Cost about 2k by the time I was done. It had a 5 lever set up, which I was fine with but my dad wants everything set up the same. Was worth it, took a little doing to get it all right. The 5 lever isnt bad either, my valve was about worn out so it was time anyway. Unless your on awesome ground I wouldnt replace a skidder with a forwarder, yeah shes a great machine but not really great when you get off the wood roads.
Ok thanks
I ran a single bunk 230 for a couple years on our hand cut jobs. The machine was a five lever, manual transmission, 4bt motor. It was a strong running machine. Very tippy. Can't believe I never rolled that thing over ;D. The Serco could lift most anything. On the real big stuff I'd have to back up to the log empty and drag er on. I forget what kind of grapple it had but it sucked for grabbing multiple sticks of firewood. It would just pinch them instead of allowing them to roll. The machine always seemed to have a problem with the brakes and never really had much of a pedal. The thing was a tank and i was glad to see it go.
Once you figure out how to roll the grapple it gets easier, if your used to a regular "rotobec" style grapple your going to curse for a while. More like a scoop than a grab style motion.
I'm still for trying to switch to a forwarder, kind of forced to really. Most of the jobs are being given to the small private loggers like myself that have forwarders. If I had one I would be working right now instead of twiddling my thumbs for the past two months.
I like the skidder/forwarder combo.get what you can get easy with the forwarder,pull the hard stuff or hard to get stuff to a small landing(small opening) just big enough for the forwarder and a few trees.Use forwarder for the long hauls from small landings.On hills or slopes...I don't mean mountain sides like some of you guys work..I pull out the rubber tire backhoe with extendahoe and use like a mini-yarder. Pull them to the top then buck them into logs and stack,pull out the backhoe,pull in the forwarder load and go.
Wish I could afford to have both but I'm a broke logger!
Quote from: logman81 on April 30, 2014, 01:24:52 PM
Wish I could afford to have both but I'm a broke logger!
Ive never met a rich logger.... 8) can you line up some more wood and get a small note on the machine ? I wouldnt go without a skidder, forwarder speeds it up but it doesnt do it all.
wish i could but i cant even finish the job im on without a forwarder. or i have to continue to wait for things to dry out if it ever stops raining. most people dont want skidders on thier land around here they want forwarders. so i can only afford one machine, thier is a few guys around here that only run iron mules hand cutting and do very well with just the one machine.
I wouldn't go without a forwarder ;) :) but a cable machine would have it's place ;D
I've been toying with the idea of a small dozer w/winch and my forwarder trl. You may need a dozer to pull the fowarder after all this rain ;D .
we had a 230 forwarder with 353 power , on flat ground it worked ok but once you got off a nice road it did not work so good , it had 24.5 by 32's on it so that I'm sure was some of the trouble as it just did not have enough power or I guess I should say enough power to get itself moving , sure once moving it was not to bad but if in just abit of mud it was done . It worked real good at feeding the firewood processer but as far as forwarding logs out of the bush we were not to happy with it , now we had a couple old Volvo 6 wheel forwards and to tell you they worked alot better in our ground and were faster out on the good trails . If we had to do real long skidding which is common up there we had a JD 740 with 2 winches on it and scrapped the stock motor and put a 283 hp motor in it , worked alot better than stock, in stock form the 740 could hardly get out of the way from its own shadow as it only had 170 hp and the machine just weighs to much for that low of power . The only thing with the 283 hp motor was first you had to drive it smart and not like a fool as it could break U-joints which I never did but they put a cowboy on it and it did lots, second is it burnt more fuel but you skidded so many more trees a day it was worth it
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20140321_095149.jpg)
Load with the landing loader, run out and go again.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20140319_185052.jpg)
That gives you an idea how much it will pick. Our hemlock pulp is 90% 17' long. Nice couple days sitting there.
Thanks bargemonkey that puts things into perspective, that is some nice wood. Would like to see a vid of that forwarder some time.
Im just about 3 hours from you. If you ever wanna come run one, or out this way your welcome to come check it out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/2013-07-07_09-37-55_568.jpg)
Thats the worst machine ive got to move. Just hooked trailer up and finishing chaining her down. Thats got 22ft of well and she just fits.
Ed_k..check out my post a couple pages back.".logging photos this winter"..shows how I use my dozer and get the butt ends a little off the ground without a winch..it can be done!! Easy!!Id love to have a winch on my dozer but I get by with my little setup very well.
Small dozers you want in the woods a very rare around here with a winch.Its usually very big ones and/or quite old.And beat up cause it was probably an oilfield rig.
Logman..let me level with ya..I said skidder but I meant my dozer...cause I cant afford to go buy a second logging machine either.It does do a great job in my application.
Logman81 as has been mentioned a forwarder is great but they certainly have their limitations. They need considerably wider trails than a skidder and you have to get to the tree with the machine as opposed to a skidder with a long mainline. My TJ 610 with nearly 30 000 hours is the pretty much the same as the older 230 and is a great machine but they are not the panacea of forest machines. Although the machine has very high hours it works reliably day after day as it has been very well maintained.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13639/IMG_1013.JPG)
The 230A and 610 are nicer than the straight 230. If your a big guy the cabs cramped. Like you said its hard to make 1 machine do it all. Most guys hear 30k hours and cringe, Nortrax had a few loaders up north with 50+ on them still going strong with proper maintenance.
Thanks every body you've been a big help so far and I'm learning lots !
Can you put duals on it to make it more stable? While running our 132 franklin it seemed tipsy. Don't know if power loss or drive train holding up would be an issue?
Quote from: timberlinetree on May 04, 2014, 06:35:53 AM
Can you put duals on it to make it more stable? While running our 132 franklin it seemed tipsy. Don't know if power loss or drive train holding up would be an issue?
Ive never seen duals, but they claim running the large float tires is actually easier on the drive train. The 353 has just enough power to get her moving. Mine is very tippy but you get used to it, alot of times we will load the bunks side heavy,
I'm sure with practice you learn what can and can't do. Maybe by not overloading it will keep it more stable.
Don't like being tipsy whether it's in a machine or in the bar :D. Had a skidder flip halfway over( tree saved me from going all the way)and that was enuff for me. I'm surprised not many use duals on some of the forwarders. Seems like it would really increase stability. Mobility might be an issue for some but would work for us.maybe some day :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28754/IMAG0584.jpg)
Ive heard a lot about those Tree Farmer and the later Franklins with the roof mount being on the extra tippy to start with.Also heard about the nightmare when a hose breaks. I never ran one,Im sure they are tough machines.
Beemers I've heard the same, how is your mule for stability?
Id have to guess that's its probably in the middle range for forwarders..Loader is mounted behind cab.Seems pretty stable to me but its the only forwarder I have ever run.
Whats your definition of tippy ? As long as you keep it close to the skid trail, or off the nasty trails you will be fine. The 230 w/ serco isnt to bad to change a hose, couple in the tower are cute but ive wrapped my hose and went thru the machine this last winter.
sounds good guys thanks for your input. still thinking it over not sure what im going to go with i might just go with a grapple skidder. it will still be a improvement from what i have now. :)
Quote from: logman81 on May 06, 2014, 08:37:57 PM
sounds good guys thanks for your input. still thinking it over not sure what im going to go with i might just go with a grapple skidder. it will still be a improvement from what i have now. :)
If you can figure a way to hang onto your skidder, and buy the forwarder thats the way to go. I recently went grapple, and im not 100% happy. Big, runs alot of stuff over, and drinks fuel.
ya i would but im tired of pulling cable. :D
one more thing i just thought of. our 230 didn't have a fuel gauge. nothing more frustrating than running out in the middle of the woods. >:(
I agree with BargeMonkey.If you had both working together do what each one does best and working together..that would make things a lot easier.Skidder pulling onto small landings,forwarder doing the long hauls.Forwarder getting what it can easy and skidder getting what it cant. Skidder hauling to landing,forwarder picking and stacking on landing or loading the truck/trailer.
I understand but I'm a one man crew and to do what your talking about requires more people, something I don't plan to get. The grapple I think may fit my situation better.
Nothing says you need to run both till the doors fall off. If you have to move that forwarder to pick up every stick, your going to wanna jump off a cliff. It will take about 4 drags behind your 230 skidder to fill it, keeps the mess out in the woods. What size tires on the grapple ? I asked alot of people, and you need big tires on a grapple if you wanna keep it on the ground or keep it productive. I would bunch and slash in the woods, wait till a wet day, or mornings and forward, nothing like a warm cab.
I think a forwarder with duals would be a nightmare, unless you are in a clearcut. 8 wheel machines solve the stability and flotation issues (they are a rough ride, though)
The grapple skidder has the 24.5"s on it all chained up. It's one of the members machines.
Im just thinking about running the skidder a few hours or a day maybe until it gets to where the forwarder can take over and make it easy then a few hors or a day then its getting where the forwarder is getting in bad terrain or over a hill or wood intended for the forwarder is cleaned up.Back to the skidder.Some jobs you may not take the skidder,some you may not take the forwarder.Just learn where they are best utilized and keep it easy on you and the machines not talkin extra help. But if you did....youd have a nice little rodeo goin on.