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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: DMcCoy on May 13, 2014, 08:57:42 AM

Title: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 13, 2014, 08:57:42 AM
I'm not even done with my mill and I built a tooth setter.  I figure once I get sawing again I will not want to stop and build one.  I used a piece of 3/8 HSS (lathe bit) for an anvil. 
Question- How important is an indexer.  I have built a place for one but was curious as to whether people use them.
Thanks, Dave


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/setter_1.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/setter_2.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/setter_3.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/setter_4.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/setter_6.JPG)
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: Cedarman on May 13, 2014, 09:33:07 AM
For speed and accuracy, indexing to get the tooth exact is extremely important.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 13, 2014, 09:42:12 AM
Thanks for the reply Cedarman.  Looks like I need to get those built as well.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: pineywoods on May 13, 2014, 11:00:08 AM
Nice job. I built a primitive dual tooth setter that uses a shop vice for power, and then modified my old woodmizer setter to dual tooth. Would be easy to make yours dual tooth. Just need to think outside the box a bit.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: hackberry jake on May 13, 2014, 03:28:05 PM
I have "build a tooth setter" on my to do list. I have everything to do it except time and motivation...
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: bedway on May 13, 2014, 04:00:02 PM
Built myself a setter about a year ago. One of the reasons for that motivation was i suspected a less then desirable settings of the bands i sent out.  Upon completing my setter i checked 5 bands i had sent out for setting and sharpening. I had requested all bands be set at .023. Checking bands randomly i saw readings anywhere from .009 to .032. Since i now set and sharpen my own, i see a major favorable performance difference in the bands.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: roghair on May 13, 2014, 05:03:03 PM
An indexer on my homemade tooth setter is important to make sure the set is consistant for every tooth. Maybe it depends on the setter, whether it has a 'stop' or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP5AE_2M-mI
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: Nomad on May 13, 2014, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: roghair on May 13, 2014, 05:03:03 PM
An indexer on my homemade tooth setter is important to make sure the set is consistant for every tooth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP5AE_2M-mI

     Roghair hit it on the money.  An indexer really is important.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: bandmiller2 on May 13, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
Indexer is very important if you want speed and consistency in your setting. You want your indexer to move the band in sets of three because you have a right, left and a straight tooth. It helps if you can clamp the band body, the DanG bands are spring temper and you have to push them beyond what you want the set and they will spring back to what you want, if your lucky. If you get the set within a couple of thousands you doing well. Frank C.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: kelLOGg on May 13, 2014, 08:20:23 PM
Quote from: roghair on May 13, 2014, 05:03:03 PM
An indexer on my homemade tooth setter is important to make sure the set is consistant for every tooth. Maybe it depends on the setter, whether it has a 'stop' or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP5AE_2M-mI

Does that youtube account show the body of the band flexing when the anvil is advanced? :o If so, I don't see how it can give an accurate set.
Bob
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: bandmiller2 on May 14, 2014, 08:10:35 AM
That youtube setter could be improved if it had an adjustable bolt that would push and clamp with the lower block before it pushed the set in. Spring is something we have to live with the more you reduce it the more accurate your set will become. Friend and member JSNH took a picture of my setter here https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=71629  Frank C.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 14, 2014, 10:08:07 AM
Found it just after I posted  ::).  I need space for the teeth on non-setting side of the blade.  Heavy plates should press the whole blade hopefully giving an accurate set.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/relief_2.JPG)


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/relief_1.JPG)

Next - mount for dial indicator, indexer(s).
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: barbender on May 14, 2014, 11:05:54 AM
Frank, did you use the suffolk's design for your setter, or is it your own? It looks slick, I'm didn't realize there was a pic of one of your creations on here ;)
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: woodyone.john on May 14, 2014, 01:49:40 PM
Imho,an indexer is a huge part of the setter and as pineywoods says making it a dual jobby starts to make setting much less of a chore. On my upgrade I also made an 'armstrong' advancer which makes the whole process quite quick. Photos in my gallery,
cheers john
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: bandmiller2 on May 14, 2014, 08:44:07 PM
Bender, I have only seen pictures of Suffolks setter, mine is similar in many ways. Setting is basically a simple operation and there are only so many ways to do it. I have a lot of respect for Art Gschwind that owns Suffolk he spent time on the phone with me when I was building my bandmill . I would never sell or profit from selling a copy of his design. Frank C.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: roghair on May 16, 2014, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on May 13, 2014, 08:17:36 PM
Indexer is very important if you want speed and consistency in your setting. You want your indexer to move the band in sets of three because you have a right, left and a straight tooth. It helps if you can clamp the band body, the DanG bands are spring temper and you have to push them beyond what you want the set and they will spring back to what you want, if your lucky. If you get the set within a couple of thousands you doing well. Frank C.

Bob, This is exactly how the setter works and it is fine for me. Maybe I will add the feature that frank describes and add "an adjustable bolt that would push and clamp with the lower block before it pushed the set in." (like the simple Cooks setter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-2KB_Wwdo4&feature=related)

Here is an other clip of my setter that shows more details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr2YTKu74Is

DMcCoy, your setter looks great and I am sure it will do the job for you!
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: kelLOGg on May 16, 2014, 10:12:12 PM
roghair, I couldn't see the band body flex on the 2nd video as the tooth was set. It works as needed so that is the most important thing. Nice workmanship.
Bob
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: barbender on May 17, 2014, 07:43:40 PM
Frank, all that being said, I've heard that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery ;) I wasn't suggesting that you stole their design to profit from it, but if you looked one over and built your own (for your own use) I wouldn't see a problem. It looks like a nice setter, in fact I might copy YOURS ;D
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: Delawhere Jack on May 17, 2014, 08:05:51 PM
Roghair. That is a very clever design using an eccentric wheel to set the teeth!  ;) Like most others here, I use a toggle clamp to close the jaws of the setter. It has a short handle (which I plan to replace), and it can be fatiguing to the hand when setting 10-15 bands in one session. Your design looks much more comfortable to operate.

Yet another item to add to my "to do list". 
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: bandmiller2 on May 17, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
Bender, you just help yourself mate. The two jaws I torch cut from 3/4" plate, the pushers are 3/8" round head plow bolts with jam nuts to hold the adjustment. The 3/4" drilled and tapped gives me the spacing for 3/4" tooth spacing, I have 1/8" washers to add to give me 7/8 and 1". Theirs nothing real critical so long as everything is adjustable. Frank C.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 18, 2014, 08:11:17 PM
A few more pictures...
In trying to make a holder for my dial indicator I ran into some space issues.  I built a frame that will hold the band support rods(pipes).  It slips over the end of the 4" channel that is the setter frame and tightens with a bolt.  I plan on making a band grinder so I can now use this on it as well.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Setter_7.JPG) 


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Setter_8.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Setter_9.JPG) 
Dial indicator bracket, room for adjustments on the X,Y.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Setter_10.JPG) 
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: leroy in kansas on May 18, 2014, 11:02:29 PM
That's looking pretty sharp. Have you noticed the smaller the project the more time involved??
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 18, 2014, 11:44:06 PM
Yeah, I think it's all those little interconnected details that take so much time.  Measure, drill, change plan, weld, grind flat--repeat--welding solves many problems.

For a few days I have been trying to figure out how to use the ball nose indicator I have.  Finally, tonight, I came up with this using a piece of broken metal cutting bandsaw blade and a cotter pin.  Should let the teeth skip past as the blade advances, easy and cheap to replace if it gets worn. Indicator spring easily moves the blade back to zero


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Indicator_1.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Indicator_2.JPG) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Indicator_3.JPG) 
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: bandmiller2 on May 19, 2014, 07:05:57 AM
D McCoy,I can tell your enjoying yourself, its satisfying to make your own tools. My first setter had a dial indicator attached, drove me batty trying to get each tooth perfect. Made the latest setter and took the indicator off. I made a small block to hold the indicator and check set as I adjust the setter, once set I go around the band and don't worry about minor differences in set. Frank C.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 19, 2014, 08:10:47 AM
bandmiller2 - Yes, I enjoy this stuff.  I enjoy sawing as well, and I know once I get started again I won't want to stop and go back into the shop, besides it's raining. 
Your comment answered the question I have had for a while now- Once adjusted why put the indicator through that much wear ? 
Thank you that is good experience.  I will be taking it off once it is set.
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: pineywoods on May 19, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
I took the dial indicator off my old woodmizer setter. More trouble than it was worth. I set the mechanism up so that every tooth is bent to the maximum, and adjust the maximum to 27 thou. If I need to double check the amount of set, I use a dial caliper. Remember that dial indicator will show how much the tooth was bent, not how much remains after you release the pressure. 
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: DMcCoy on May 19, 2014, 09:31:24 PM
So the dial indicator is more cosmetic than useful, that is making sense to me unfortunately now that I'm mostly done, as is a dual tooth setter.

So before I rush headlong into making a grinder is there any insights you guys might have.  I was planning on a full gullet grinder.  What do you guys have and what do you do as far a sharpeneing?
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: backwoods sawyer on May 20, 2014, 12:35:21 AM
I ordered a pair of dial indicators today for the Cooks setter after having to down set four saws. (slow proccess)
They had gotten wet inside and froze popped apart and were not reading consistantly, set a batch of saws assuming they were reading/set correctly but they were way over set on one side.
Put them on the WM setter and down set the teeth and then back around to set. On the WM the dial does give the reading of the tooth during and after setting there is a quarter turn section of the handle when the saw is clamped and no tension on the tooth and that is where you get the after reading ;)
Title: Re: Homemade tooth setter
Post by: woodyone.john on May 20, 2014, 01:47:17 AM
Roghair,   thats one dam fine machine you have constructed.When you figure how to link the advancer to the setter I for one would sure like to see it.I suppose you wont release the interim version ,but will go straight to the motorized edition.cheers john  :D ;D 8)