Been trying to figure out how to pick up production, and getting there slowly. Wondering if any of you guys are running the Rolley or Hytek heads. Im not looking to go true CTL, but drop and 90% fulltree limb and top. Been thinking about a stripper, which may happen but exploring ideas. Im looking to cut, delimb and pile with the Timbco, so no ones bothering with a saw, grab go, drop and back. Will a rolley full tree delimb big hemlock and smaller hardwood ?
Barge Monkey,
With all the nice gear you are obtaining I have to ask if there are any job openings in your other career field.....
Once you get that far you may as well go CTL and be done with it, IMO. It's a lot of screwing around trying to limb whole tree with a processor head, if you are running it through you might as well buck it to length and pick it up with your new forwarder ;)
I forgot- you already have a forwarder- all the more reason to buck 'em at the stump.
I've found that it doesn't work well trying to delimb treelength in the woods with a processor, it takes less room to cut it to length and forward it out. Your best bet to increase production with what equipment you already have would be to add a stroke delimber with a topping saw.
Quote from: Southside logger on May 14, 2014, 06:41:59 PM
Barge Monkey,
With all the nice gear you are obtaining I have to ask if there are any job openings in your other career field.....
I just took a new job, for a local company in NYC. They are hurting for qualified people, deckhands make out here. Kinda rough work but I think my deckhands making 400+ a day. The mate and I are the lower paid ones by industry standards.
Quote from: barbender on May 14, 2014, 07:10:04 PM
I forgot- you already have a forwarder- all the more reason to buck 'em at the stump.
The problem is, where I log isnt forwarder friendly, few guys do it but mostly in softwood. Only reason im wondering is a rolley will bolt right on, but they arent cheap. Have to just break down and buy a 501HD now.. lol.
One of my cohorts does this on his Tj 2628 with 762C head. He makes it work well and sends them through tree length parallel to the skid trail and then skids with his high track cat. With a forwarder you are correct in that you are fairly limited in ground. Do you currently run them through tree length with your fixed head?
I have lateral tilt on my barsaw head, which is handy. I can knock alot of the bigger limbs off, and if you take your time can top and stack basically all of them. We tend to hand cut anything over 24", or the good stuff. Im just trying to figure out how to jump up without adding a big expensive head or stroke delimber, which then makes my skidders and loader not big enough. Its one big expensive cycle. A remanned rolley with a computer is 125k from woodland in MI, and if im going that deep then I need a Timbco with minimum 260 hp. It doesnt end. Figured maybe a low hour take off and dont bother with the computer.
Not sure you can run a rolly without a computer
Have you been around any 6 or 8 wheel forwarders? I'd say they can go anywhere a skidder can. Side slopes are the limiting factor, but I haven't seen any hills that can't be forwarded if the processor cuts it right. You guys in other areas have more rugged terrain than northern MN does, but we have some fairly wicked glacial hills in areas.
There are a couple guys around doing more forwarder work, but every once in a while we get to go pick one back up. 8)
Yeah down the road I can see selling my 230 and going for a 564. Cut to lenght is cleaner, I wont dispute that. Biggest problem with a true CTL "team" is the cost, your well over 1 mil, for decent low hour stuff. Im going to talk to Lakeshore and see about a Rolly, thats where my machine came from.
I was at the state college show last year. There was a company there from benezette pa. Steep rocky terrain. 100 percent mechanized. CTL said they forward everything backwards from the bottom straight up to the top of the mountains.The harvester works 60 feet around the skid way.
You should be in brand new stuff for that money. You should have a really nice low hour, say around 8000, for around $400K. You could get in for a lot less than that. I'm not claiming that CTL is the solution to everything, but I wouldn't be afraid of it based on hills or mountains. There are Ponsse teams working in Montana and the PNW, a lot of harvesting is done in Europe in mountainous terrain and I haven't seen anything but CTL in everything I have read about from over there.
For what your doing your better off with a feller buncher and skidder setup. Processer and forwarders can work steep terrain but its the timber type also you have to consider. Out west or in Europe they cut alot of conifers but if you are trying to process hardwood of any size your production goes way down. Most processing heads aren't designed to handle crooked and crotchey wood. I've talked with a lot of processor owners who say once branches get over 2-3" in hard wood your not going to get very good limbing and stuff starts to break real quick.
Make sure the forwarder has enough power for hills. The logger that cuts my land had a forwarder that did not have a bigger enough motor.Did not like hill,not enough power to take a full load. One job he was on he was taking ½ and ¾ loads.
Ive been adding equipment as I go, the push to go true "ctl" would be if it was just me alone. Alot of these woodlots im on are small, 8-12-20 loads of wood. Had just the 440D and 450G until about 4 years ago. I got that timbco because shes low HP, I guess even 260 isnt enough for the high production guys now. I was just about to buy a Hytek head, and someone talked me out of it, I guess they arent what the owner claims. I like the idea of a barsaw, tilt and the stroke head, would be ideal in my application. Its either pulp, super lowgrade and firewood or real nice, nothing in between around here.
Depending on the GPM of your pump, 260 HP should be plenty to run many of the processor heada like s out there.
My Fabtek's 125hp running the four roller head. No lack of power.
Quote from: barbender on May 16, 2014, 09:30:30 AM
Depending on the GPM of your pump, 260 HP should be plenty to run many of the processor heada like s out there.
Ive got 175hp. 6068T deere engine. It was a built that way, only seen 3 others. Most 415's had a 6.8 or 5.9 cummins. I dont mind it, and doesnt eat much fuel. Has processor package and a seperate saw pump for a disc saw.
Even 175hp should be enough for some heads, look at Corley's Fabtek 4 roller. He's probably cutting similar timber to what you are.
Something like this maybe, complete, nice unit without new price..
http://www.bhtimber.com/used/2004-7000-log-max/
A couple guys just down the road took the plunge and went from a newer TimberPro with a Rolley and 1010 single bunk JD to new JD stuff. A 703? with a Waratah head and double bunk forwarder. About 725,000 dollars.
BargeMonkey My 608 only has 160hp but works fine as long as I don't try to make it do things it wasn't designed for. Your forwarder will also work on some pretty steep hills without issue. In areas that are too steep I use my cable skidder to yard trees to a flatter spot where I process them.
I dont lack for power with my Timbco, and like you said, if you run it as designed. I was under the impression you needed 260 to run a Rolley efficiently. My 230 was a starter machine, ive gone thru it and she works good, at somepoint I plan on trading it for a newer 6 wheeler. Problem is alot of my jobs are nasty, steep and full of rock. Forwarder gets run alot doing private road work, or I did a job 3 yrs ago where the header was 1 mile back in the woods, piled and stacked it out roadside. I listen to and appreciate everyones opinion, this forum is a great tool. Im slowly building a fleet, of paid for equipment and once the time comes that I dont wanna tugboat anymore I can go cut wood fulltime.
I think you're doing it right Bargemonkey ;) If you have a fleet of paid for equipment you really have a leg up. You only have to take jobs where you will actually make money, versus doing anything to keep it rolling and making payments. The problem with CTL is the price is so high for the equipment if you buy newer stuff, you need to move a lot of wood to pay for it. 40-50 cords per day turns into a mountain of wood to buy, cut and market in a years time.
Im almost at my "happy point" for woodlots per year right now, 4-6 per year. Im just looking to be efficient. To many guys get in over their heads quickly, and yeah the wood is out there but the payments come every month. It was alot simpler when I just had a skidder and dozer, to be honest.
I ran a waratah head on a hyundai carrier all last winter, it went vertical to fell trees. you could sure pump out a lot of lumber. It was clear cut logging though and you would just pull up along side a deck of trees and start swingin. the computer had a printer that would give you a ticket of your hours, stem count and m3 put through on that shift. Not sure how well it would in hardwood though.
I think that Rolly head can be run without a computer if the measuring solenoid is replaced with a non-measuring version.
A fixed head 4 roller seems to be the weapon of choice in hardwood thinnings. That Timbco should be an ideal carrier for one. However, if you are trying to delimb tree length a dangle head would probably work better (relatively speaking). I've never ran a fixed head, I've never even deliberately tree length with a processor, so take my opinion for what it's worth. My understanding is that Nortrax has been pushing the 703/Waratah dangle head as an in the woods delimber in place of a regular boom delimber. I know a couple guys that bought one for that purpose, they ended up getting a forwarder. If you have long stems, the butts are digging in the ground, stems snapping off, it's kind of a pain. I'd go watch someone that is running a head tree length and see what you think before taking the plunge ;)
Got the official word today, finish this woodlot, and 1 more and thats it for employee's in the woods. Done begging guys to work, babying them, dealing with their problems for months on end. Done. Now im going to have to see about a CTL system or someway to speed up production. I leave a guy with 1/2 a million in paid for equipment, pay him an honest wage and still cant get anything done. Wonder why this country is the way it is. All done.
Quote from: barbender on May 18, 2014, 03:01:46 PM
A fixed head 4 roller seems to be the weapon of choice in hardwood thinnings.
smiley_thumbsup Yup.
Agree. I think there might be a two roller fixed head that will accomplish pretty much the same thing. You have a couple of colors to choose from.