I finally did it. I bought a Mile Marker 12000 pound hydraulic winch for my Kubota BX22 TLB. I have the backhoe off now and the 3 point hitch on it now. It has a wet line to run the backhoe so I hooked the winch into that. Haven't really tried to pull anything yet and still need to build the bottom blade/anchor piece for it but it looks promising. I know 12000 pound is way over kill for the little tractor but if it doesn't work out I can always put it on my Ford diesel truck. I have a bunch of tress/logs down over banks on our land so this is a much safer way to get them to the top.
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I used a old MF bush hog 3 point hitch cut down to make the basic frame and will add a blade to the bottom for anchoring. I'll also probably end up chaining the front to a tree to hold it from slipping back.
Looks good. I have heard of guys pulling their tractor in half by chaining their loader to a tree so I wouldn't recommend that. perhaps a wider blade to wedge on a tree or rock would be better. Does your tractor have enough gpm to run the winch? You could add a pto pump if needed.
I had a BX1800. We use to mow with it. Get that blade made for the bottom of the winch and that should be fine to keep you from sliding backwards. Mine 3pt winch has the blade at a slight angle. Maybe even putting the bucket,blade side down,into the ground,MIGHT help out a little,but will make it more stable too.I would also make the blade as wide as the tractor. Which is what,4 feet? I forgot now. As you are winching keep an eye on the tractor too. May have to hook on to another tree to move the tree sideways. Put a rolling hook on the log to get it going. I guess you won't be driving it through the brush,but there is a plastic fan under your feet for the tranny. Careful of that.
How big are the trees? I had the grandson on my BX and he hauled out some white pine,tree length,biggest was probably 8 inches across and it did fine. BUT this was on level ground. It was a perfect place. Might have to take the trunk of the trees and come back for the tops.
The winch is designed to run off a vehicles power steering pump so the GPM is low. It needs 3.5 GPM @ 1500 psi. The tractor has enough to run it. I plan also to put some "cultivating shovels" off the Farmall on the bottom of the blades to also dig in better. Right now I have a bulldozer blade edge to use for the blade, about 3/4" thick with the mounting holes in it. I'll put it at an angle to help it dig in. I'm going to add a arm to use to chain and lift the log for pulling. I have pulled some pine about 30" in diameter before. I cut them to 8'6" lengths first before pulling them. I have a draw bar rig with hooks at the top to raise and pull with. It is a small tractor but with the ag tires, sometimes rear chains, and four wheel drive pulling, it does real good (as long as you are smart about it!).
Some things you need to think about...Sooner or later you will try to move something that's too big and heavy for your equipment. What is the weakest link in the equipment. ? Especially if you chain the tractor to a tree. Hopefully the winch will stall before something else breaks. I wouldn't bet on it. The mount points for the 3 pt arms are a weak point. Even worse is the possibility of cracking the transmission housing which serves as the tractor frame. I did exactly what you are talking about. Home-made hydraulic winch mounted on a larger M series kubota. Tied on to a hung up red oak, just drug the tractor backwards. Backed the tractor against a large tree and promptly stripped the gears and shattered the case on the winch. Be carefull, hydraulics is powerful. you are fooling around with enough power to wreck your small tractor...
How is the winch controlled? Can you have a heavy spring for the top link and run a control wire along it. If it stretches too much it disconnects the control and stops the winch?
The winch has a electric corded remote on it. In and Out buttons that must be pressed to control it. It has 12 volt solenoid valves that work it. I would like to add a radio control to it so I can be "near" the log to watch things as the pull goes on.
That would come in handy. But watch the tractor too!!
I would definitely plan on backin gup your blade to a tree or rock to help anchor. That's safer for your tractor than tying off your loader to a tree.
I'm not very familiar with the BX22 TLB, but seeing as it's designed to be a TLB rather than a compact tractor, maybe the frame is a bit sturdier than a similar-sized tractor? that may help a bit.
Simply add a hydraulic gauge to the in put line on the winch . Pressure is a measurement of resistance.
The formula is , F= PxS . force (load) equals , Pressure ( PSI ) x surface area ( s ) .
Its a little harder to calculate on hydraulic motors on paper (winch motor ) maybe the manufacture has a torque to pressure chart .
If it was mine I would Add a
(extra) relief valve with the gauge on the pressure feed line . you can get the valves with a large hand knob , hook everything up (load , log, cable , choker ) open this extra valve , counterclockwise then start the pulling . then start to turn the extra relief valve clockwise and watch the psi rise .
This way you KNOW what the load is .
Same principal as a hydraulic press or a hydraulic torque wrench and many other things hydraulic.
Frank
BTW... most tractor hydraulics are higher than the 1500 PSI you mentioned. I think 2000 or 2100 PSI is typical?? Better check to make sure your winch can handle it. High pressure hydraulic leaks are no fun... they can inject hydraulic fluid through your skin, and "bad things" happen.
You might need a separate relief valve on the line feeding the winch.
Hydraulic pressure is a direct result of the engine rpm. As long as I don't make a pull using full rpm it should be OK.
Wally,
It appears we all like your tractor more than you do! Personally, I really like the in-line pressure gauge.
Dave
Hey Wally,
I think you did great. You have a 10k winch on the back of your tractor and didn't have to pay 5k for it. I bought my forestry winch for 5k and then got a deal on a used MileMarker.
Where are all these naysayers everytime a member buys a forestry winch. Sounds like the inner pit of OSHA in here, finding every little thing that could possibly go wrong, instead of congratulating a member that done good. Shame on you all.
I agree with BBTom it does look good. Just put the blade on it and don,t worry about tieing to a tree if the blade wont hold it the tractor wont pull it . cut the log to a size that you can pull. splitwood_smiley splitwood_smiley
Tom,
What I read are several well meaning suggestions to potentially avoid damage. Wether Wally, or anyone else who reads this thread wants to heed them is entirely their choice.
I appreciate other viewpoints when I post an idea.
Dave
Quote from: Wallys World on June 06, 2014, 11:29:45 PM
Hydraulic pressure is a direct result of the engine rpm. As long as I don't make a pull using full rpm it should be OK.
I admit to not being a pro about tractor hydraulics, but I thought the main thing affected by RPMs was the flow rate, not the pressure (at least once you get up above relatively low RPMs). There may be a bit of leakage or bypass in the pump, so cranking up the flow rate might boost the pressure a bit, as you outpace the leakage. I may be all wet on this, but thought I'd mention it - worth checking in to.
BBTom, If I am one of the "naysayers" to which you were referring, I don't know where you got the idea I was criticizing his installation. I think it looks like a fine job, and a great idea (my apologies to Wally for not saying so in my earlier post).
I merely saw what might be a problem, suggested he check into it, and suggested a possible solution if in fact it did turn out to be a problem. He may already know that it's not an issue, which is great. If the milemarker winches max rated pressure is not known, it's certainly worth checking into.
As far as the suggestions about backing up to a tree or rock, that's just common sense when using a small tractor for this type of work. I have a NH TC33 compact tractor that's larger than the BX22, and that's the practice I follow if I can't get the blade on my logging winch winch to dig in well enough to hold the tractor (and that's with an added backhoe subframe that stays on the tractor full time, further protecting the tractor from the stress of winching in a heavy load). It's quicker and safer than tying off the loader to a tree.
Keep cool guys.
When WW gets to pulling out those trees, he will be able to report how well his new winch performs. 8)
I did a test pull today. I backed against a small as the blade assembly is fabbed up but not installed. I had 12 inch red oak 46 feet long over the bank. I pulled out about 50 feet of cable hooked up and put the winch in low gear (it has two speeds) and pulled away. I had the throttle at half speed. The pull went flawless. I pulled the tree up to the tractor then cut it in half and pulled that piece away. Backed back up and pulled the rest out.
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13397/DSCI0046.JPG) The winch is now in the shop for blade attachment. Thanks to everyone on their input. I have been using this tractor as a skidder for quite a few years and don't plan on pulling logs no bigger than I usally do with the 3 point draw bar rig. I still have to be able to drive away after the pull to get the logs out of the way.
Didn't get a chance today to work on the winch assembly, had to bush hog the field. It was getting mighty tall!
Winch mount is all fabbed up and painted. Now waiting final assembly.
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I put in a 2" receiver for pulling a trailer, splitter, or the logging arch. The bottom blade is at an angle so to help it dig in.
Nicely done. Looks very stout. How thick is the metal on that bottom blade?
I'm keeping an eye on this as I recently got a BX2670 and still don't know what it's capable of. I got it for mowing and snow blowing but maybe I'll drag a few logs when I can't get one of the Deeres close enough.
Looks good!! Might want to run a piece of metal across the top to hang a chain or two onto it. That should dig in for ya. My winch butt plate is at a slight angle.
Quote from: Wallys World on June 04, 2014, 12:25:19 AM
I finally did it. I bought a Mile Marker 12000 pound hydraulic winch for my Kubota BX22 TLB. I have the backhoe off now and the 3 point hitch on it now. (...)
I used a old MF bush hog 3 point hitch cut down to make the basic frame and will add a blade to the bottom for anchoring. I'll also probably end up chaining the front to a tree to hold it from slipping back.
Steel cable rarely break, but if a chain choker ever did break or slip, it will whip right back to the tractor driver direction. This is why protective shield is standard equipment on tractor's logging winches. Unless you have a remote control, hydraulic winch means your controls are on the tractor, so you are fully exposed. Hydraulic winches require either remote control option or protective shield to operate safely in my humble opinion.
This winch is overpowered for your tractor, so it has plenty of power to break equipment and chains.
Have (safe) fun
The blade is made of a dozer edge 3/4" thick. I do have a wireless and a corded remote for safety so I will not be sitting on the tractor during the pull.
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Side view.
Hey @Wallys World (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=3397) how has this held up for you?
I'm thinking of setting up a similar rig.
It has held up really good. Hydraulic is the way to go. I run it about 1/4 throttle and I have all the power and speed I need.
Glad it's working out for you.
That tractor should be able to sneak around the woods without having to cut roads for it.
Quote from: Wallys World on June 06, 2014, 11:29:45 PM
Hydraulic pressure is a direct result of the engine rpm. As long as I don't make a pull using full rpm it should be OK.
You probably have this figured out already, but I'd start experimenting with the winch with the tractor @ idle until you have a couple of different loads on the hook.👍
The worst you could do is stall either the winch or tractor.