Hey Guys,
I haven't been around much lately but I'm curious for some advice from you guys on something.
About a year ago we got a mastiff, Thor. It was a big surprise to me - my wife picked him up without my knowledge. He's about 150lbs now. Good dog despite my initial worries.
Last week while my wife and I were walking him (leashed) a dog (unleashed) came charging out from behind a quick-e-mart and attacked Thor. It was a mixed breed but looks like it may have some pitbull in it given the head shape and vicious aggression. It was a very awkward and disturbing experience. We saw him coming for maybe 10 or 15 seconds. It was like slow motion waiting for him to arrive. There was nowhere to go so we just stood our ground.
He jumped on Thor and they started going at it. I was still holding the leash because I didn't want them running into the busy road we were walking next to. I know it's not a good idea to reach in with your hands in a dog fight, but I yelled and kicked the dog a few times while they were tangled up. He wouldn't retreat. Thankfully Thor is much bigger and stronger and held up well in the fight, but it was a couple of minutes before the other dog owner was able to run over and drag his dog off by the leg.
The owner lives above the small corner store. We have seen the dog outside in the past with no issue. It was very odd that he snapped this time. After the attack, the owner brought out some peroxide to clean off Thor, who was bleeding from the mouth and face. He seemed concerned and apologetic. We considered reporting to the police, but I didn't want to have this old guy lose his dog over one incident. I assumed he would take it to heart and be strict about leashing / chaining his dog after that.
Well, this morning, we walked by the same spot with Thor. I was holding the leash so my wife walked a little ahead of me to see if the dog was out. She saw him in the back but couldn't tell if he was chained. We ended up walking about a block down the street, crossing over to the other side, and then trying to pass the dog, just to be safe. As we pass, the dog owner flags us down and crosses the road. We figured he was going to apologize again and ask how Thor was doing. Nope. He proceeds to tell us that we can't walk Thor in front of his place because his dog is not neutered (he used different terminology as you can imagine) and he will defend his yard. He wants us to detour around the shop where he lives which means crossing a busy road twice.
I was calm in the beginning. I asked him please to make sure his dog is always securely chained or leashed. But he wasn't having it. His response was something like "yeah, he's usually on a leash but he can get out so you better not walk by here anymore". I got pretty aggravated as he continued to argue his point. Eventually I was so heated I couldn't talk to the guy anymore. I just reiterated what I had already said and told him the conversation was over and we walked away.
I really can't believe the attitude of this guy.
So first off - how would you guys handle the original situation - an aggressive dog running at you from 50 yards. What can you do? No nearby buildings or shelter. How about after the dogs engage? Is there anything you can do?
Second - how about police involvement? We talked to my wife's brother who's in law enforcement and may end up with a police report. My biggest worry is this jackass lets his dog out again and it attacks a smaller dog or child.
So frustrating.
I understand pepper spray works well on aggressive dogs. Be sure to save some for the owner.
Tim
Yip, pepper spray the dog and only the owner if he threatens. bg
He is responsible for keeping his dog under control. By all means, go to the police. Next time it could be a person getting hurt.
I would check (if you don't know already) to see if there is an ordinance requiring his dog to be leashed or fenced. If there is report to the police that there is a dog at that location that is allowed to run free at times, and has attacked your dog in the past. They should follow up on that and keep an eye on the place. I would do as others said carry pep spray and walk where you want.
Quote from: VictorH on June 08, 2014, 12:20:53 PM
I would check (if you don't know already) to see if there is an ordinance requiring his dog to be leashed or fenced. If there is report to the police that there is a dog at that location that is allowed to run free at times, and has attacked your dog in the past. They should follow up on that and keep an eye on the place. I would do as others said carry pep spray and walk where you want.
smiley_thumbsup
QuoteWe considered reporting to the police, but I didn't want to have this old guy lose his dog over one incident.
That was the first mistake, IMO. Call them now.
Hope the pepper spray works if that is what you are going to rely on in the future. It is not just the dog being sprayed that will have to put up with the spray.
Bird shot works well.
If you use pepper spray a couple of words of advice. One be sure the wind is not blowing back towards you.
As quick as you get home change and wash clothes being very careful to touch them as little as possible.
Oh and three beaware it affects everyone differently.
Had my shot of it doing police training. One of my buddies had to spray a guy one time. After he was cuffed the guy told him next time to just get a big hickory stick and beat the you know what out of him.
I've used pepper spray on a dog that was trying to attack walkers and bike riders going by his rural home (I was one of the bike riders). He would usually only go for pant legs, but occasionally he'd get a bit more. After the third time he got hit with the pepper spray, he left me alone.
I would have a chat with the police. If the dog hasn't attacked a human, there's probably less chance they'll put him down for one animal incident, but I think it would help to have something on record with the police. If it's a pattern, but no one reports it, as far as the police are concerned, there is no problem.
If you are in the public right-of-way (on a sidewalk or following the edge of a public road), then the other owner is way off base telling you not to come by that area. It's his responsibility to control his dog, not your responsibility to avoid the area.
Of course, you'll have to decide for yourself if "being right" is the goal here. That doesn't help much if your dog (or you or your wife) end up injured. On the other hand, if no one pushes the issue, then the neighborhood is left with a dangerous dog, and it's only a matter of time before something worse happens.
You could "carry" and defend yourself and your pet, but probably not advisable in New Jersey.
Cheap and effective is squirt gun full of amonia cleaner solution. Had a dog that used to attack me on my bike, one dose and he would run for cover everytime he saw me. ;D
Quote from: tree-farmer on June 08, 2014, 03:39:57 PM
Cheap and effective is squirt gun full of amonia cleaner solution. Had a dog that used to attack me on my bike, one dose and he would run for cover everytime he saw me. ;D
This sounds like a good idea, plus making a police report, no need in this happening again to you are anyone else.
A neighbor farmer had a big german shepherd as his farm dog.
That dog would not let anyone get out of their car if they came into the farm yard (until the farmer showed up).
The farmer explained it all started when a salesman came one time and sprayed something (mace I believe) in the dogs face, and since then the dog wants to take down all who dare come into his space.
Take the legal route first. Go to the Police and make out a report.
I would report this to the police and request that animal control checks that that dog is up to date on all shots and not sick. If you have been told not to walk your dog on public property I would report that also as that indicates the owner will not provide full control of the animal. You should also request a vet check of your dog if the skin has been broken which the dog owners insurance should be responsible for. Next time it could be a child if the dog is not properly restrained.
Report it! Especially considering his attitude!
In my County if a dog attacks another animal or person the owner has two options, put the dog down or get $100,000.00 insurance policy. There are other requirements too but those are the main ones.
If you want something to carry with you Wasp and Hornet Spray has a distance spray of 20' plus. Is legal to possess in most areas and I just bought a 2 can pack at Lowes today for $6.00
First, Thank You for having your dog on a leash! Good dog and Good owner! (I am not always such a saint but I have a yellow lab not an attack dog)
Second, Yes, report this. Likely there are other incidents or one is coming up.
Thanks for posting this. It does inform my actions in the future. Pepper spray, ammonia and leashing my dog are all worthy of consideration.
Regards
Kderby
Eight years ago my Lab was attacked and ripped open from the front of her front leg to her groin by 2 pit bulls. This happened on my farm several hundred yards into my property line. Guy down the street's buddy visits him, opens the door and the two dogs book. They found my dog under the shade of a tree while I was cultivating a field. Buddy chased the dogs and tried to pull them off my dog while they were killing her. Of course he was bit pretty good on his arm. Owner came over all apologetic but damage done. A month latter, yep,you guessed it. Al was sued for $98,000.00!! That's no misprint. Seems the dog owner leased the house he lived in and had no insurance. I did. Insurance company settled for the full amount. Lawyer said it was cheaper for them to settle rather than litigate. Promised me they wouldn't drop me or increase my premiums which they honored.
Bottom line....report it!!!! don't get in a squirting contest, just call 911 and report the incident. That dog attacked once and you can bet the farm he'll do it again. What if it's a kid?
Absolutely report the incident to the police.
I would also report that the guy told me I had to take a different route!
Thirdly, I would start carrying a big stick and the attacking dog would get it!
You have a right to protect yourself and your pets.
Report it, next time do it right away. There are way too many fools that have a real attraction to dangerous dog breeds, I don't know if it makes them feel tough or what.
I like the squirt gun idea but that could get you in serious trouble if it looks like any type of a gun. You could get a squirt tube, a piston is pushed to eject the contents. Animal control can tell you what the laws are in your town. Leash law, confinement laws.
Quote from: Magicman on June 08, 2014, 05:26:26 PM
Take the legal route first. Go to the Police and make out a report.
x2 and get a stun gun if thy are legal that will knock the dog off his feet but good
Good advice from the members. Our dogs are just like kids to us. Don't mess with them! Sounds like you are in the right. He has no right to tell you where to walk your dog. If he can't control his dog,he should not have it. I bet this is not the first time either.
Thanks for the advice guys
Alcranb - that's really an awful awful story. So sorry to hear it.
We were considering pepper spray. Ammonia in a spray bottle or hornet spray sounds like it could be good too. We carried a stick for a few days after the attack. The bummer is that you only get one shot at the dog when it's coming towards you. After they tangle up you're gonna be spraying both animals or risking hitting your own dog if you have a bat or something.
Even tho it kills me, I'm going to avoid the area for a while. This guy essentially said he's not gonna be responsible about chaining the dog. It doesn't matter who's right or wrong if you or your animal gets hurt
My wife is off from work tomorrow and I think she is gonna file an official report. Thing I don't like is that this guy can then get our name and address through public records and who knows what someone will do with that info.
In a Perfect World the other dog owner would change his ways . . .sometimes cooler heads prevail
Carry a 45 and be done with it. Seen it before on the news , no one does anything until a kid gets all chewed up. Around here no one puts up with that. Sometimes one chance is given, but never two.
Had one time a dog was in the woods behind my house. Ann was out in the yard, I was in the barn. And I could hear the dog barking and chasing something. So I came out to see what was going on and the dog came out of the woods and made a beeline at Ann. I jump in with a shovel. The dog left with a headache. I called the cops . And told him, If you find the owner, Tell them if it happens again the dog won't be back. Never saw the dog again.
Potentially Dangerous Dog . . HBO had a program One Nation Under Dog we think they're people
When you or your wife report it, find out from the police what you can do to legally defend yourself and your dog.
Don't take actions that will put you in trouble with the law.
Find out if pepper spray or other liquids are allowed.
You don't want to be sued by this jerk for hurting his dog. He sounds like the type that might do that.
Let the law handle him and his dog. That's what they are there for. To protect and serve.
Jim Rogers
I second the idea of finding out what's legal. It's one thing if you happen to have a "walking" stick along with you and jump in at the spur of the moment to defend yourself or your dog. It's another if you have made the conscious decision to carry something like pepper spray with you; your rights vary from state to state. It's worth making sure you stay on the right side of the law, and don't give the dog owner an opening to go after you.
If the local police have a canine unit, it might be interesting to see if they would do a foot patrol with it in the area from time to time (particularly if theirs is a male dog). You can bet the guy would get some hassle if his dog attacked a police dog as it went by.
I would think the ammonia or pepper spray might work for a less aggressive breed but I wouldn't count on it with a pit mix. When they get locked on something its near impossible to stop. My neighbor's granddaughter had a rescue pit mix that was fairly calm but one day out front of our house I saw it charging at 100 mph toward our new kittens on the porch. The neighbor had a very strong shock collar and was lighting her up the whole way. I was cutting 2x4's on the miter saw in the garage and intercepted the dog just before the porch. I managed to louisville slugger her with a 4' section of 2x4 in the hindquarters just before she got to the cats. I knocked the dang dog into next week and it still tried to come at the cats. Took one more solid hit to send her home.
The neighbor was sorry and said they would have done the same thing. Dog was OK but a bit sore for a few days. The neighbor and I are great friends but I did let them know I have small kids and that wouldn't fly and the 2x4 could be upgraded to a hollow point. They ended up investing in a lot of obedience training that made a world of difference.
If that dog has pit in it, it will fight to the death probably. It is good that your dog was big enough to defend itself and I have heard those Mastifs can easily hold their own. I hope no small dog or kid gets around the thing. As for the owner, you cannot fix stupid. There is no sense trying to reason with someone who is that ignorant. I would surely notify the police ASAP. I was attacked once with my 2 year old son on a bike. He was in one of those kid seats. I was lucky to have gotten bitten only by the long pants I was wearing. We lived in the country so I handled it like any other person who lives out of the city.(most anyway). I will just say that the dog never had the opportunity to hurt anyone else.
Owning a dog of any breed is a big responsibility and the other owner does not seem up to that task in my opinion. I have a Rottweiler and I will do anything for her and she is a wonderful lap dog. I knew that I would always be looked at a certain way and judged by some people for owning a certain breed. Because of that I made sure to raise her properly with training and being well socialized. It is my goal to not feed the stereotype of the breed, I even considered getting her trained as a therapy dog.
I agree 100% with everyone that has suggested that you find out what you can legally do to protect life and property and train yourself accordingly. I would make sure that the owner is reported since he is not a responsible dog owner and he is raising a dangerous animal. Since the dog is not fixed and is that aggressive he is obviously not raising a show dog but still plans to breed him, imagine if he does breed him and now there are more than one dog raised the same way on the property.....
Good luck and I hope your Mastiff recovers well, one day once I am back on the farm I will have an English Mastiff around.
I agree with everything you guys are saying. Taking matters into your own hands can sometimes be a legal nightmare. From the looks of it, this guy probably doesn't have much money.... and I don't have any interest in suing him. But I'm guessing the opposite is not the case. I don't want to lose my house because I cripple his dog defending myself and he sues me. This place is right along the perfect loop for a dog walk around my neighborhood, but I'm gonna have to find another routine because the risk is just not worth it.
An official report was filed today and the guy is getting a summons. I'm a little bummed for him because as I mentioned, I'm sure he doesn't have the money to pay it. I would rather see them force him to neuter the dog. Who knows how much that would help, but it would at least be *something*.
Not surprisingly, after the report was made, my wife got a call from animal control and she was told that this dog is indeed an ongoing issue. The owner is renting an apartment from a family who owns several buildings in the area. I am *SHOCKED* that they haven't thrown him out yet. As the land owners I would think they could be open to legal action if (when) this dog does any real damage.
Thanks for the support and advice everybody. I have my fingers crossed that nothing else comes of this.
I don't think you could've handled it any better.
I just saw this and agree completely with you filing a report. Before i was married to her, my wife and her family lived in a very small town (maybe 30) and there was a neighborhood basset hound that all the kids played with and new well, one day for some reason he just snapped and literally scalped my stepson who was about 8 at the time. My wife was doing dishes at the time and saw the whole thing out the window, absolutely unprovoked, and the kids always played with the dog, I saw pictures of him before many, many stitches, trust me you don't want that dog getting anywhere near you folks again. If it's illegal to carry a .45, then I'd take an aluminium bat and you can even have your wife tossing a baseball, just going to the game you know ;).
You have an obligation to file a report. He has a dangerous dog. Others may be harmed and perhaps more severely the next time. And perhaps it will be a child. I don't know the laws of your state but in today's litigious society if someone else is injured and found out you failed to report your incident, they could come after you. The deeper pockets approach. Report it. The guy obviously doesn't care enough about his own dog or others to control it.
Get a stock mans cane.Its a heavy hickory cane.I keep a S&W 38 in my pocket.I have a ccw permit and would not live in a place where I could not defend myself.Most dogs are no problem but there are some that will attack other animals and humans.I have done animal control, a dangerous job.Move to Vermont, they forbid carrying a concealed weapon for illegal purposes.A few places are restricted but anyone can carry in the state.
I don't like stereotyping dog breeds or people, but the fact is that some breeds have been bred selectively for aggressive dispositions. Most Rottwielers and Pitbulls I have been around have been big babies, very gentle and friendly. I have seen some of those same dogs flip like a switch when they saw a strange dog etc. It was a bit unnerving to see how quickly they went into "attack" mode.
Quote from: barbender on June 10, 2014, 07:16:18 PM
I don't like stereotyping dog breeds or people, but the fact is that some breeds have been bred selectively for aggressive dispositions. Most Rottwielers and Pitbulls I have been around have been big babies, very gentle and friendly. I have seen some of those same dogs flip like a switch when they saw a strange dog etc. It was a bit unnerving to see how quickly they went into "attack" mode.
Yeah, I don't want to hate on Pitbulls, but mankind really has done a number on that breed. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Stop dog fighting, neuter Michael Vick". As long as dog fighting continues, people are going to breed horrible nasty dogs. So sad.
My buddy had a Rottweiler a while back and it was a great dog. Don't think I ever saw it aggressive towards people or dogs. But without the proper up-bringing, who knows. Even with good training, it's still frightening what these dogs can do if their switch does get flipped somehow.
Mart - there is now a report on file.
I bought my pepper spay on the advice of a police officer friend. He told me to make sure and buy stream pepper spray. That way you can control it and it won't blow back on you.
Call the police. You tried to be civil and he didn't meet you halfway.
My Rottwiler is a big female 125 lbs she has the big dog kook and the big dog bark you come in the house when we are home Mandy will try to sit in your lap in the middle of the night you take your chances. i did not want mean just the looks
I prefer to walk with long walking sticks that I make out of small Tamarack trees. I am 250 lbs and I don't like them to bend if I lean hard on them so they tend to be stout. They give you reach and could be used in a surgical manner like a spear but they also have a decent striking power with a swing. Legal and fashionable, I sometimes do Gandalf's line from the mines or Moria.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UfAL9f74I&feature=kp
My stick doesn't have a glowing stone at the top. And my beard isn't as long.
Here is a sad story where the Rottweilers apparently DIDN'T have the proper training. This happened about a mile from me.
http://old.post-gazette.com/localnews/20030318dogs0318p3.asp