I have always been a LOYAL Woodmizer customer and Woodmizer has always been there when I needed them but i cannot understand why I have been having so many problems lately. Since 2000 I have purchased three brand new sawmills from Woodmizer (so you can see where my loyalty lyes) a LT40 Hydraulic, a LT40 Super Hydraulic, and now a wide head LT70 DCS. The first two mills came in perfectly and any problems I had Woodmizer was always MORE than willing to help ensure any problem was taken care of professionally and promptly. When I ordered the LT70 DCS I had to wait 3 months for it to be built and I understand that. It was built in Indy shipped to Mississippi and then delivered to me. Waiting like a kid at Christmas in the driveway when it was delivered, I was suprised to notice it wasnt a DCS. It came in as a walk behind. It was ordered as a DCS on the paperwork, built specially for me, and delivered from Indy to Mississippi then to Louisiana and no one noticed. I had to wait over a month longer to get the DCS. Even the six boxes of blades I had ordered for it were wrong. SIX BOXES. I sent them all back and they sent six more boxes of wrong spec blades. After a lot of phone calls I finally got the .055x1.5x 1 1/8 tooth spacing 10 degree blades for a LT70 wide head. I also had to pay several thousand dollars more than what was originally quoted for the mill because the quote i was given wasnt correct.
Today I recieved the new woodmizer log deck I ordered. When the truck door lifted I immediately noticed it was AWMV green not woodmizer orange. On several occasions I spoke to the Woodmizer dealer about making sure it would be painted woodmizer orange to match the LT70, inclined conveyor, transfer table, and twin blade edger I also have and I was assured that would be taken care of. When I called to say it arrived green they just offered to send me a few cans of spray paint to paint it myself. When I threatened to refuse delivery they then offered to send someone over to paint it with spray paint. I can understand a mistake in ordering or production sometimes but I never get a clear answer to who and why all of these problems happened. Hopefully these problems will get resolved within the corporation and things return to how they have always been with promt, excellent customer service, and outstanding equipment. Woodmizer has always been there for me before and I will still support them. Just needed to vent off a little frustration. :-\
Sent you a PM Rob
This does not sound good at all. Lord willing 1 day I will be physically able to run a mill and I had it narrowed down to a LT 35. I have read another thread about a brand new one being bought and as soon as the technician left it messed up on him pretty good. I am a loyalist also. Once I purchase something and it is good to me I will be very loyal to that brand, but a few of the things I have been reading lately has created some doubts. I know there are a lot of good mills out there and I have heard of their customer service as being excellent in a lot of threads, but it seems lately there have been some substantial changes in the reliability and the customer service as well. Sending cans of spray paint for an investment like that would be like a slap in the face to me. Hopefully it will be resolved. I will continue to watch for these things and hopefully the good things I was used to hearing will continue and the mills will continue to be of great quality. Hope it works out for you.
Cypress...That's an unusual series of mishaps, right up to the part about the cans of spray paint for the live deck. That's like ordering a new truck in midnight blue and having it delivered in candy apple red. when you mention it, the Dealer hands you a case of spray paint. I'd be over the edge for sure.
But you know, even the best companies are not immune from the occasional bone-headed move. I have no doubt that Big Orange will iron it out and make it right for you. They really are a top shelf company...This coming from a guy who doesn't even own one of their saws. ;)
Wow Cypress Man,
I'm sorry to hear of all your trouble from WM. It sure would be frustrating to experience issues of that magnitude. Woodmizer has been very good to me, both from the factory and more especially, Marty and Lisa from Shade Gap. I believe that somehow, WM will make it up to you, ease your frustrations, and retain your loyalty. Hang in there. Scott
Cypress, I take it you've never bought a new car from a car dealer if you're not used to having stuff come in the wrong color and all messed up. It happens.
Hi Cypress,
I'm the account manager for Wood-Mizer that oversees the MS ASC location along with six others. I want to assure you that I, along with many others here in Indy, are aware of the mistakes we've made in servicing you on your LT70 order and are greatly concerned with all that has happened. I've watched Wood-Mizer grow from 3 locations to 15 and from 4 models of sawmills to 89 today. It affects me deeply every time we fail to maintain the standard we set early on.
I sincerely apologize for the hassles we've caused but especially for the things we've done (or failed to do) that have made you ask the question you posed. We screwed up. Multiple times. So I have personally talked with members of our team and we've come up with new procedures to make sure we don't repeat these mistakes in the future.
We are sending someone from the MS ASC that paints heavy equipment professionally and will use high quality paint (not a can of spray paint!) to get your new log deck to match your new mill. I sincerely hope that you're willing to continue to partner with us in order to experience even greater success in your business, and I apologize again for our mistakes.
Mike Hanlon
Since this thread came up I would also like to say woodmizer is not the same company I bought my first sawmill from in 1994. I am a loyalist also when it comes to equipment. My first purchase was an experience that I told many times to people my second purchase well it was just disappointing from the day I picked up mill till the day my sharpener finally showed up. Not one call from woodmizer.
I'm not a woodmizer guy but wow what Mike said is really nice of him. EZ
Quote from: Napoleon1 on July 09, 2014, 02:45:51 PM
Since this thread came up I would also like to say woodmizer is not the same company I bought my first sawmill from in 1994. I am a loyalist also when it comes to equipment. My first purchase was an experience that I told many times to people my second purchase well it was just disappointing from the day I picked up mill till the day my sharpener finally showed up. Not one call from woodmizer.
Was there a problem with the mill, delivery, or they just didn't call you?
Repainting doesn't sound like a real fix, altho a nice offer, why not just the correct color to replace it.
While I've looked at the orange mills and came close to buying 1, with all the problems I've noticed here and elsewhere wondering if "too big for your britches" might apply.
Delvis: Yes, I have purchased several new cars from Dealers and not once did I ever expect to have problems, much less ones that couldnt immediately get corrected. If not they would never sell me a car again.
Mike H: I really appreciate your reply and appoligy for the issues I've been having. I dont like being negative but I can honestly say this has been the worst experience ever with Woodmizer since I began dealing with them over 14yrs ago. I can't ever even get anyone to call me back on issues. I ALWAYS have to call back or nothing happens. As of now I still do not have a date as to when someone will come by to paint this Log deck. Therefore the log deck I just paid 10 grand for will sit outside in the weather hoping someone will come by to repaint it even tho I just waited 3 months to have it built and delivered. You are the first person to actually appoligize and seems sincere in trying to rectify the problem and i appreciate it. I guess I'll wait by the phone and see if they can actually make calls and not just receive them.
EZ: I agree. There are still some very good people to work with at Woodmizer. I hope they can overcome their current problems to the old company we've all come to love.
Quote from: tmarch on July 09, 2014, 06:57:55 PM
Repainting doesn't sound like a real fix, altho a nice offer, why not just the correct color to replace it.
While I've looked at the orange mills and came close to buying 1, with all the problems I've noticed here and elsewhere wondering if "too big for your britches" might apply.
I've heard that more than once about the number of issues with WoodMizer mentioned on the internet. It really irks me, as people don't seem to realize that there are more WoodMizer portable band mills than all the other brands combined, so it makes sense that there are more WoodMizer questions as well. WM goofed in this instance. I would be upset, too. Cypress Man has spent a lot of money to get setup the way he wants, and it should be just that, the way he wants. It's good to see that WM has seen that there is as problem in the way they are processing things internally, and is making changes. I think sending someone out to professionally paint the mill is a sufficient solution. Hopefully this situation has brought about an improvement in the way they track their orders, and it won't happen in the future. No company is perfect, it's how they handle a situation that shows what they are made of. Also, I've learned, there are some people that just won't be pleased, no matter what the situation or how great the company. (And I'm not saying that is you Cypress Man, you've got a legitimate issue). If it sounds like I'm cheerleading, well, I am a bit. I've been very happy with WM, and I don't like seeing them put down. But if you read enough of my posts, you'll see I try to support the other mill companies on here that stand by their customers as well.
I've been in business for 27 years you should never forget where you came from and who helped you get there . All it takes is a phone call to show you care .
Jim Bruno of Nh
Quote from: delvis on July 09, 2014, 10:46:18 AM
Cypress, I take it you've never bought a new car from a car dealer if you're not used to having stuff come in the wrong color and all messed up. It happens.
Unacceptable! The customer service element in all but gone from our corporate society. I have heard many many good things about WM I'm sure this will be taken care of. I believe Cypress Man has every right to post his frustration. No one should be expected to just accept what is handed to them. >:( >:( >:( >:(
sometimes it takes a wake up call to stir the pot. There are issues, with all manufactures, in all realms of tooling and machinery. this sounds like a major miss CA bobble for sure. I am a die hard WMZ customer as well, but have dealt with things that have pushed me as well. This will soon pass, and lumber will be made.
I've never met a bad Wood-Mizer representative in my years of dealing with the company!
I purchased an Lt 40 this year, and couldn't be happier with the mill and the customer service. I'm not saying that because of brand loyalty,,, I'm saying it because it is true. During the first three months, I was contacted by my Woodmizer dealership several times, each time to ask about my satisfaction with the mill and the way it was performing. I think that is pretty darn good for any company, and I am very satisfied with the product and the people backing it.
If there is anyone out there thinking of buying a mill and not sure which to go with, just go to a demo day when all brands are present and you will see quickly which brand suits your particular needs. After watching the demo, ask yourself how you will make inevitable repairs, and is there a reliable availability of parts and expertise to help you make those repairs.
I realize I don't work my mill for a living, or probably not nearly as dependent on a mill as most folks on this forum, but I have owned two other brands before Woodmizer, and I wouldn't go back to the others as it stands now. I also have to put in a plug for the people in Shade Gap, Pa.; they represent the brand they sell extremely well. They have contacted me several times after my purchase just to see how things were going, and if they could be of any help with my mill. No one in today's corporate world does that. Except for Marty and Co.... ;D
There are mistakes made with any company making any product at any given time.
When a mistake is made, some how the right people up the ladder should be made aware.
Unfortunately some companies mistakes are never brought to the attention to the right people so the mistake can be made right and procedures can be changed accordingly.
Cypress, I think IMO, you have brought up some mistakes in a very professional manner.
I am a Woodmizer owner and will buy one again.
Personally I feel the mistake you have brought to light, will reach the right people in the Woodmizer company and changes will be made.
I think that in a way a mistake of this magnitude could happen, because the equipment was "large" and expensive. Your order might have gone through several hands at the company, and most of those folks had no direct contact with you. All it took is someone making a mistake and the order kept going like that. Wrong mill built and coincidentally the wrong paint applied to the deck. Major mistakes and my guess is people at WM are hearing about it too.
On the other hand. A month or so ago I talked to a technician at WM, telling him my troubles with the blade tracking in a tricky log. He gave me advice and he suggested I try a certain blade. I received a blade a week later. The company still bothers with something trivial, such as sending out a free blade, just so someone can try it and remain satisfied their product when it works well.
That says something too.
I understand your frustration, Cypress Man, but I don't think it is a general trend.
IMO they should've given you the upgrade for free, and sent you another log deck. Sure, their profit wouldn't have been as high, but the customer would've gotten what he ordered.
on a side note, If you want to send the ole 70 wide head to Arkansas, I would gladly pay shipping to take the troubles off your hands ;D
It sounds to me, that the proper people have now been made aware of the situation and they will take care of it. (hopefully) I know you must be fuming, but like someone else said, It has gotten to the right people to take care of it. I wish you luck in a speedy fix. It is nice to know that they are watching the situation and commenting on it, rather than just letting it go by. Again, I wish you a speedy fix and please keep us informed.
No matter what else happened around this bad situation, not returning customer phone calls is the worse way to operate. If your message had been about wanting to spend more money do you think someone would ignore you? The public apology is a responsible start. The actual follow up will be instructive. A good product will always lose out to bad customer service. The old adage about one guy telling a LOT of people about bad business just happened.
Hope you get it all sorted out. They have a lot of fans and are known for quality. So did other companies that are no longer enjoying that status. You deserve better and have way more understanding than some of us I suspect. Good luck and we will be interested in the end.
Teething pains. I suspect WM will make this right.
Quote from: barbender on July 10, 2014, 10:23:04 PM
Teething pains. I suspect WM will make this right.
I agree......look what GM is going through, Ford is having recalls, Honda is having recalls.......its just gonna happen sooner or later. Anything can be made right and we all learn from mistakes. :)
Even the best companies screw up once in a while. What sets them apart from the not-so-great companies that screw up is this ...
Quote from: Mikey H on July 09, 2014, 02:26:38 PM
... and we've come up with new procedures to make sure we don't repeat these mistakes in the future.
Making things right with you is fine. Changing procedures to prevent it from happening again is better.
Hey Mike...Thanks For putting that out there. The truest test of any company is not how they treat you when things go right, it's what they do when things go wrong. It is refreshing to see someone taking responsibility for what was done or not done, for a change. I predict that once the dust settles, Cypress man will be back in the saddle and you guys at Woodmizer will have once again demonstrated how to go the extra mile...and do it in front of an audience. ;) :) :)
Quote from: manoverboard on July 09, 2014, 08:48:23 PM
Quote from: delvis on July 09, 2014, 10:46:18 AM
Cypress, I take it you've never bought a new car from a car dealer if you're not used to having stuff come in the wrong color and all messed up. It happens.
Unacceptable! The customer service element in all but gone from our corporate society. I have heard many many good things about WM I'm sure this will be taken care of. I believe Cypress Man has every right to post his frustration. No one should be expected to just accept what is handed to them. >:( >:( >:( >:(
You've missed my point. I bought my first mill from Timber Harvester and they were more than happy to take my $26,000, build a mill with a 10 page owner's manual with hand drawn parts diagrams, and then declare bankruptcy without actually telling any of their customers. I know a thing or two about poor customer service.
There will always be mistakes in manufacturing and mistakes made by certain people in the company in dealing with those errors, but a person should not be so quick to sound like they are ready to write the whole company off because of one bad experience.
I would have a deep distrust of any company that claimed to never make mistakes, or never have equipment fail. Reason? Because when it eventually does, they have no system to actually put things right.
The OP has a legit complaint that his order was messed up. Fair enough.
The value of a thread like this is to see what happens next. So far WM have accepted there is a problem and are working to fix it? Hopefully to his satisfaction. That's what we want to see happen, because if anything it gives you more confidence in a company to know if something does go wrong, they will sort it out.
Ian
I'd never pay any more than what the quote was, several thousand more is a lot. If they miss quoted you that's their problem.. Unless you added some options after the original quote. Steve
The thing I find interesting about WM is they are not publicly traded, and as of about 5? years ago are employee-owned -- so as things like this go wrong, and if/when they start to lose customers and customer loyalty, every employee is affected directly. They are the "stock-holders". As such, my own experience with WM is that they in fact ACT like it is their company, and every customer and their satisfaction is important.
That said, what Cypress has been experiencing is not a single incident but a pattern of reduced customer focus. Let's face it, mistakes happen. Suppliers aren't perfect. New employees may think they're doing the right thing but don't have the experience yet. A company is made up of people, and people make mistakes. None of us is infallible! I hope Mike makes the "owners" (every employee) aware that reputation is everything. If that starts going in the tank, eventually the company starts to shrink and people start losing their jobs. Saving a few pennies in resolving his (and other's) issues is insignificant in the big picture, because WE are all watching via this great Forum. I'd hate to see WM's reputation tarnished, because I consider them just a great, great company ...
"I think sending someone out to professionally paint the mill is a sufficient solution." Sorry, but really just repainting won't fix it IMHO, paint wears off and the original color comes thru so you've got a customer thinking WTH is with this. Sure it's less expensive, but this guy has spent how much??????????
Waiting to see how Woodmizer comes through for you. . . .
I must admit that if and when I get a chance to replace the Millenium Falcon, I will be scrutinizing WM very carefully. I get that flyer from TK in the mail every three months or so even though I've never bought anything from them. . . .
At this point I would really hate to change brands because I'm so familiar with my WM groove that it would be a huge paradigm change to convert to another brand. But my groove is getting a little worn out and the bearing's starting to wobble a little in it. . . .
But I'm just afraid if I converted to another, I would be constantly bumping into all these little moments where I would say to myself-- I sure wish I had bought a Woodmizer!
Customer support has been about 90% satisfactory for me, which is far higher than most other companies I deal with out there selling unrelated products.
Quote from: Okrafarmer on July 15, 2014, 09:39:55 PM
I must admit that if and when I get a chance to replace the Millenium Falcon ...
The Millenium Falcon???
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31067/smiley_yoda.gif)
Very sad that would be!
Quote from: SawyerBrown on July 15, 2014, 11:04:34 PM
Quote from: Okrafarmer on July 15, 2014, 09:39:55 PM
I must admit that if and when I get a chance to replace the Millenium Falcon ...
The Millenium Falcon???
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31067/smiley_yoda.gif)
Very sad that would be!
My LT40HD got nicknamed that by a regular customer of mine who was once the owner of a much newer LT40HD. He sold it and now does woodworking part time. I asked him if he wanted to try operating my LT40 and he said no, it's a one-man machine, like the Millenium Falcon. He's probably right-- there are so many idiosyncrasies to it, it would be a rather steep learning curve even for an experienced sawyer.
I purchased a WM LT10 a few years back and it was the best customer service I could ask for. Not sure if folks are looking for a handout or freebie in this thread, but I personally decided on WM because of their customer service. Had my first paying job on 4 walnut logs this past wed ($100 a log) and both myself and customer were happy. Stay loyal, join the WM family and look forward to your next issue of "woodmizer way" second favorite to "wood" magazine :)
For WM owners I feel bad your purchase was not smooth, but an email to management should help especially with pictures (we love em)
- CW
There is no such thing as a DCS walk 70 ! Sounds like the person who took the order was new ! With that many things shipped wrong there has to have been an issue at a lower level . I can't imagin any of the more seasoned WM folks messin up like that . All that said I feel it is indeed a forgivable situation . Lets remember that we are not talking about a poor quality product ,but one of the best . I think that WWm will do what is right , the way I see it for them it would be as easy as waveing a hand over the situation and healing it .
Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. I have experienced nothing short of excellent service and support from Tim & Crew at Wood-Mizer South.
The take away message here is to inspect your order when it arrives, and don't be afraid to reject the order and send it back. Don't just sign the paperwork because you have been waiting with baited breath for months to receive your new toy. If something is wrong, you need to figure it out before you sign for it because once you do, you own it, even if it means you refusing the order and sending it back. As expensive as you may think it is, you don't want to get stuck with something you will complain about every time you see it.
I have learned this lesson both professionally purchasing manufacturing equipment and personally with purchasing equipment for my farm. I have found myself accepting errors on my personal equipment where I otherwise would have had the manufacturer correct the problem.
Remember, you paid good money for the equipment, the manufacturer, no matter how great they are can make mistakes and the mistakes need to be corrected before you take delivery. After you take delivery your leveraging power decreases significantly and you will have to live with it, worst case the company folds and you are really sol. If caught early, manufacturers are more than willing to fix an error, as WM has explained and tried to do in this example.
Finally, if you are buying a new mill, my recommendation is to go over it with the vendor. This is what is called a Factory Acceptance Test (FAT), this is your last chance to check that the manufacturer assembled the equipment properly. Take out the manual and go through an alignment, make sure everything works as it should.
Keeping your money in your pocket until everything is just as it should be definitely keeps you in the drivers seat.
Another take away from this is that this is a fine example of how all of us sawyers should strive to beable to correct issues with our customers as well ;)
Be clear with our customers about what our mills are capable of and what the limits are, understand what the customer is after and if we miss the target that is set, find a workable solution for both.
Quote from: backwoods sawyer on July 18, 2014, 05:33:28 PM
Another take away from this is that this is a fine example of how all of us sawyers should strive to beable to correct issues with our customers as well ;)
Very true! Sometimes the shoe is on the other ft.
Just an update to let everyone know how its going. As of Friday 07/11/14, I still had not received a call or any information from WoodMizer about when someone would come out to paint the log deck so I called them to see. They said they were waiting for a LT15 wide head to come in that has to be delivered somewhere near my area. They were not sure when it would be in exactly but they were expecting it to be in the next two weeks and would stop by then. As of today (Monday) 07/21/14, my $10,000.00 log deck is still out in the yard, I havnt heard anything else and still have no clue what day this will be taken care of.
Yes Fin1903 you are absolutely right. I should have simply just refused delivery but I knew the shipping would have been expensive for Woodmizer to pay and I didnt want to be the "unreasonable" bad guy that caused a 14yr old relationship with a company go sour. >:( Ill give it another week and see what happens.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13917/20140708_150119.jpg)
;)
Communication is vital, even if they have news you don't want to hear. Hearing nothing makes you feel unimportant, and leaves you wondering what's going on.
At this point, I would tell them to bring me the right log deck, and take the old one home with them. You have been patient, and without your new tool that has just been sitting.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on July 21, 2014, 07:42:31 PM
;)
Communication is vital, even if they have news you don't want to hear. Hearing nothing makes you feel unimportant, and leaves you wondering what's going on.
At this point, I would tell them to bring me the right log deck, and take the old one home with them. You have been patient, and without your new tool that has just been sitting.
It appears as though this entire issue is being treated as unimportant. Once again "too big for your britches" comes to mind.
I run several business ventures and guarantee that if I have an employee handle a situation like this he/she would be gone. This will hurt worse than they might realize.
SEND THEM A BILL. Storage is anywhere from $10.00 to 40.00 a day depending on the space it takes up.
Personally, I feel like they ought to just get you a deck in the right color. I would tell them I am not satisfied with their solution, and they need to make it right. The first time something scratches that deck and you see that green paint underneath, you're going to be grumbling. I would be, anyways. They should have been tripping over themselves to right this situation, as far as I can see. Not making you wait for weeks so they can deliver an LT15. Ask them how many LT15's they need to sell to make the size transaction you just made.
My experiences with WM have been all positive, if an order gets messed up, they send me the right part no questions asked. The techs and parts people are very knowledgeable, courteous and pleasant to deal with (once you get someone on the phone, my one gripe- the long phone "on hold" times). One thing I would mention, I think you said you were dealing with one of the WM branch locations, is that a WM owned or privately owned ASC? Most of the negative service experiences I've read about were in regards to an ASC. If I were you I would be talking to someone higher up in Indy about my experience, and demanding a timely (past due) resolution.
I'm not judging either side, as we have just heard one side. But realize not pleasant to have to sit and wait.
I went back and read Cypress Man's opening post, and it appears that there is an ASC in the middle of things. I'm not knocking any ASC's, but I would point out that as far as I understand, they are like a local car dealership. They aren't owned by WM, they just sell WM products. I'd be surprised if Indy wasn't real happy with the ASC making you wait for weeks so they could catch your log deck while they were "passin' through".
This just blows me away! I can only imagine how you feel. This is just so bad, as I am used to hearing good things about WM. I would probably be like you and try to not get upset, but this long and waiting, so they can kill 2 birds with one stone. I really appreciate the update because I am certain now of which mill I would buy if I am ever able to. I certainly would not deal with anyone who would treat me like that, especially after spending so much money with them and being that loyal. They have had plenty opportunity to keep up with this thread and comment. Thanks again for the update and I hope you are not loosing too much on your brand new equipment, while it is being left out in the open. Man, I cannot believe this. Thanks again. Hope something happens soon.
LaneC- I wouldn't rule WM out yet. I really suspect that the mistakes were made by the ASC (dealer) and WM is leaning on them to make it right. I'm just guessing at this point, but this is so out of character for WM. Maybe the take away is to stay away from the MS ASC. Deal with Marty up in Shade Gap, PA- he seems to keep folks very happy ;)
I'm extremely interested to see how this situation ends. I'd be quite a bit more upset than Cypress Man by now.
I can't believe this has not been solved yet. Most of the factory finishes are either powder coat or baked on and very durable, anything you put over it may come off over time. Seems to me it should be sent back to the factory and be disassembled, stripped, and repainted for a permanent solution that will last. I bet Woodmizer will come through soon with a proper solution as this is spread all over the web now.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13917/20140708_150119.jpg)
still it is a pretty nice looking log deck, what end loads the mill, do the arms lower a log onto the deck or do the arms
pick up logs from the ground and put them on the deck?
I see something under the deck chains also, is that some type of barrier under the chains on the rail so the chain does not scratch up the metal below? Teflon or something?
if this was me , from my dealings with woodmizer, I would take their word that they will make it right. I would have that thing mounted on my footings already and using it until they either replace it or repaint it. no way would it still be sitting in the yard unused. or hire a guy to come in and paint it, and get a credit from them for the cost.
What makes the chains move the logs....Elec. ?
I have to think I would be very unhappy, but at the same time put that bad boy to work! I'm quite sure it will be rectified,
I am one with only positive to woodmizer
I have followed this thread very close
But I too did not get the involvement of a third party
can someone enlighten me
more on the value of good companies
I bought my blue ox and financed throught nicholls trailers in vermont, they welded up the trailers and pierre put the package together
apparentley nicolls sold the loan to hitachi, but hitichai treated it like a lease
I payed off the loan 4 months later like I intended too but hitachai wanted way too much money
I argued with them and got all but around 4oo of my real investment back
nicolls trailers stood behind the original loan terms, and got hitachi off my back
that is the definition of good treatment
so please original poster or someone else is this post about a deal between you and woodmizer or is there another company involved?
Woodmills1: There is no third party. I have been dealing directly with Woodmizer.
Cypress, I sent you a private message asking more specifically about how things are working out with your new Lt 70. Rob
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 04:12:46 PM
What makes the chains move the logs....Elec. ?
Now I've done ask this once.....will somebody give me an answer before I fly off the handle? bat_smailey
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 04:12:46 PM
What makes the chains move the logs....Elec. ?
Now I've done ask this once.....will somebody give me an answer before I fly off the handle? bat_smailey
little chipmunks inside the rails...when the button is pressed it drops acorns in the chain infeed. I think that's how it works.
Quote from: yukon cornelius on July 22, 2014, 10:46:52 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 04:12:46 PM
What makes the chains move the logs....Elec. ?
Now I've done ask this once.....will somebody give me an answer before I fly off the handle? bat_smailey
little chipmunks inside the rails...when the button is pressed it drops acorns in the chain infeed. I think that's how it works.
:D :D :D
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 22, 2014, 04:12:46 PM
What makes the chains move the logs....Elec. ?
Now I've done ask this once.....will somebody give me an answer before I fly off the handle? bat_smailey
It appears the chains do not work on the blue color units. ;D
POSTONLT40: The chain are hydraulicly driven. You must remove the log loader from the mill and the hydraulic hoses connect to the log deck to operate the chains and log arms. These functions are controlled from the joysticks on the dcs model.
Tule peak timber: I'll try to call you tommorrow.
Tom L: You must load the log deck with a forklift. The chains on top the deck pulls the logs forward toward the log loader that dumps one log at a time onto the sawmill deck.
Yes that is Teflon under the chains.
Hello barbender. I just looked at the original date on this post and it was dated the 8th. Today is the 22nd. 14 days. That has been sitting there for 14 days in the open waiting for a new machine to be delivered so they do not have to make a special trip. I try and live by the Golden Rule. I would definitley not treat anybody this way because I would not want to be treated this way, at all. I have met the dealer in Mississippi and they were extremely nice folks. I do not know where the mess up happened, but he says he has been dealing directly with WM. I have gotten into plenty of trouble from my wife for getting taken or treated badly and I do not like to rock the boat or get upset with anybody, and I just keep my mouth shut and wind up dealing with getting taken in some way. If I were to make a purchase of this magnitude and something like this were to happen, Oh my Gosh! I would be so mad, and would have to deal with getting taken on something this big, Then I might would have to rock the boat, but as usual, it seems like it would matter, because nothing seems to be being done to rectify the situation, even in dealing with the main company. This whole thing makes me very sad because it seems like this is now normal in everything nowadays. So bad. I do not even have a mill and I feel bad. I hope I have not offended anyone, this is just my opinion, and I do not wish to make anyone angry or anything, I just think this is so bad because I never thought I would see something like this from the good things that I have always heard. Sorry for the rant, but I hope he gets his equipment done right.
LaneC, don't get me wrong. I would be very, very upset if I were in this situation. I would demand another factory painted unit, not some field painting job.
Blue or not, I'd think it would be used for loading logs in the meantime... if there are logs needing to be loaded.
If the color of the beast were the only issue, and it were me, I would have just shrugged it off and lived with it. After all, I use a Massey Ferguson tractor, so I've learned not to be picky. But the color was not the only issue. He had other issues as well. Have the other issues been fixed? maybe he said earlier.
OK Today I decided to not wait on WM to paint the log deck before I began using it. So this morning even tho I am extremely busy and need to cut beam orders I removed the hydraulic hoses from the log loader and removed the log loader as the instruction manual stated. Once this was completed I installed the new hydraulic hoses onto the new log deck cylinders. I could not find the correct unions to connect the hydraulic hoses together so I went on to the next step. The hydraulic valves I had in the kit that was sent to connect to my LT70DCS looked completely different from the instuction manual and it finnally hit me. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!! They sent a kit to hook up to a LT70 non-remote not a DCS. Just one more catastrophe to add on to this large list of complaints. I called Stacy Thompson who is in charge of industrial equipment and he could not help. He said he would have someone call me. I called WoodMizer MS. and they could not help. Said to talk to Dan Bowman in Indy. First two calls went to Dans voice mail and I leftmessages. The third call I made to him I finnally got him. He confirmed they sent the wrong kit and has the correct one on its way. So now Im sitting here with no way to connect the hydraulic hoses to the log deck and orders to be ran. I guess Ill have to call my customers and tell them why their orders will be late. Thanks WoodMizer.
If I were WM, I'd have someone on their way to you with all the right parts and a new log deck, even if they have to drive through the night. At this point, it isn't about what is convenient for anyone, it's about saving a client relationship. In WM's defense, a "comedy of errors" can happen to anyone, and no, a comedy of errors isn't meant to by funny. Be glad you aren't farming. You have all the same problems, but with worn out equipment, and cantankerous cows to deal with. ;)
Tricky situation for sure, use it and then lose it? probably not, I would use it and keep on keeping on, It stinks, but color is not everything, just performance, so make it happen, and it I'm sure will be rectified.
I am relatively new to milling. I have an LT35 HD. I love it, but already recognize the need for greater capacity/efficiencies. I will be looking for a machine from a competitor who can deliver a quality product, as Wood-Mizer has, just in case this issue doesn't get ironed out. I am disappointed with your difficulty and only hope the company will consider what got them where they are. If they lose that, they lose everything...eventually.
Sending the parts right away for YOU to fix their mistakes is not good. Now if they send the service tech in his truck to get this disaster up and running that might be what you need. Might be time to lemon law this purchase. Sounds like you received some one else's unit , not the one you ordered.
At this point I would be talking to a lawyer, hate saying that, but it's apparent they could care less about you or the $ you've spent. If they can't even call you back..................
I am with you barbender. This just keeps getting worse. I wonder if they have anyone from WM looking on this site. It is hard to believe how bad this is getting, and now more wrong parts! Man, I would hate to tell my customers that I could not give them what they were expecting. Wait a minute! who said something about a Massey? :D (I am joking about that one). Although If Massey messed up something this bad and is handling it like this, then I would not have another one. Thanks for the updates and please keep updating. Maybe they will look and see what is happening and get back with you. I wish the best for you.
Hello,
I have been watching this from the beginning. It is unfortunate that there have been some mistakes made with the order. I know WM is working on it and will make it right.
We as an ASC have been growing and now have 6 employee. Trying to keep everyone educated, trained and knowledgeable about all the products we sell including Wood Mizer is quite a challenge. This is not an excuse for what has happened to this order or orders. Part # and revisions with the 70 DCS and other models of WM can be quite confusing if you don't have some experience looking up the parts. The parts manual has notes but you need to read them. It would not be hard to miss the note or part #. For the log deck for a LT70 DCS there are three part # LD70-DCSKit ( this is the right one) LD70-Rkit 1 and LD70-Rkit 2 then if you have a non remote 70 there is another kit. The 1 and 2 designate a valve body change by revision.
I know this does help this order.
I am sure WM will make this right.
Marty
I'm sure this situation has some Woodmizer operational staff screaming for resolution. I commend you Cypress for restraining your commentary to the point you have. I know that people from WM read this forum and from what I know about the company, they WILL make it right. I know that doesn't make the sour taste in your mouth turn sweet. Maybe WM will do the right thing to make you happy in the end. I sure hope so. I'm empathetic with the frustration this has caused you. It will get better...
My Lt40 forward saw head movement stopped. After doing a simple diagnosis from the instructions in the manual I called WM. I received a part the next day and was up and running 30 minutes after the FedX truck left. The mill was under warranty. That is pretty good service in my opinion.
A side note: The WM tech told me that before putting the saw head in reverse, the variable control switch should be turned down. That would prolong the life of the electronic module, which in my case, went bad.
I'm not sure what everyone expects, but if I had a customer this disappointed in me for mistakes I had made, I would have made it right by now. If I were held up by logistics, I would be calling the customer every day or at least every other day with updates and apologies.
Quote from: Ribsy on July 23, 2014, 08:41:58 PM
I am relatively new to milling. I have an LT35 HD. I love it, but already recognize the need for greater capacity/efficiencies. I will be looking for a machine from a competitor who can deliver a quality product, as Wood-Mizer has, just in case this issue doesn't get ironed out. I am disappointed with your difficulty and only hope the company will consider what got them where they are. If they lose that, they lose everything...eventually.
And what is to prevent you having an issue with a competitor down the road? We all need to remember that companies make mistakes. All companies. For every mistake at WM, there have been thousands of perfect performances. I have a feeling that working with two divisions at WM is part of the problem. The mill is from the portable sawmill division, and the log deck is from the industrial, which I think was formerly AWMV. I know when I call WM about my mill, they have all of my info in front of them at the computer. Perhaps the Industrial division doesn't have that information available? We should also consider ourselves lucky when working with any of the sawmill manufacturers that the companies are, comparatively, small, and we can contact somebody at the HQ. Try taking an issue with your new Ford, Chevy, Dodge to the HQ. I still think WM needs to just bring the right log deck and parts, and get Cypress Man up and running, no matter what it costs them to do it.
Quote from: Cypress Man on July 08, 2014, 09:14:01 PM
When the truck door lifted I immediately noticed it was AWMV green not woodmizer orange. On several occasions I spoke to the Woodmizer dealer about making sure it would be painted woodmizer orange to match the LT70, inclined conveyor, transfer table, and twin blade edger I also have and I was assured that would be taken care of.
Talking to the dealer is not the same as having the color on the order. If the actual order said orange, then it's Woodmizer's problem. Otherwise it all on the dealer's promise.
For me, as long as the paint is good and the product works as advertised, the color is the manufacturers choice. And this is not like a car where it's offered in multiple colors. I would expect a color different than standard would be very difficult and expensive for most manufacturers to supply, especially with a good powder coating paint system. And the present paint job will be far better than even a professional repaint job in the field.
So Woodmizer is not the villian they are being portrayed as here. I would have put that log deck to work long ago. It's too nice a unit to leave waiting for a vanity color change.
And putting it to work in the beginning would have brought to light the wrong valve bank shipped, so the right one would have been exchanged. And much wood would have been cut and orders kept up to date.
Brings to light the headaches manufacturers have when changing models, and providing retro kits. No wonder they don't readily upgrade.
Just a thought, but I mentioned a while back engineering blunders, it happens all the time, communication in all facets of the scope are so critical. It just kills me when it happens, but it does and will. The main thing is to keep on trucking as soon as possible. These folks on here are a good sounding board, but can do nothing to rectify the situation. The right persons must be contacted, at whatever the expense. Or just go to another supplier, this is how it's done. Lots' of wasted dialog here, not to mention production.
If the man wanted and ordered a orange log deck then he was charged for the paint job and if it came in another color then the order was wrong. Period. He should get what he wanted,he should get what he ordered,and he should get what he paid for.
QuoteHe should get what he wanted,he should get what he ordered,and he should get what he paid for.
Yes, and to be realistic, in due time... ;)
Quote from: drobertson on July 24, 2014, 02:28:11 PM
Just a thought, but I mentioned a while back engineering blunders, it happens all the time,
???
The sales people may or may not have placed an order for a product that Woodmizer does not make nor sell and it is an engineering blunder? How can it be an "engineering blunder"?
We don't know what was actually ordered or if he paid extra for his wishes and yet are condemning Woodmizer because his wants and wishes were not fulfilled? ::)
I had a similar log deck issue last year. Mine was painted correctly but built the height of the WM4000 instead of the deck height of the LT70. The LT70 deck is a different part number. I settled for a green deck the correct height that they had in stock rather than wait for another deck to be built. I was given the option. They sent the wrong stops for the loader arms twice; the engineering specs had been copied from the original deck that fits both the 70 and old LT300 when they were developing the WM4000 and saved the altered file. Wood-Mizer built the new stops and drove them 318 miles from Indy the next day when the 2nd set was wrong and they figured out why.
Two observations.
1. They will make it right.
2. Its worth the wait. The deck works great and added more to my production than anything else I added by far.
I would suggest calling Indy and asking to speak with the customer service manager. I have had them screw up more than once and each time they went out of there way to correct the issue.
Quote from: Gary_C on July 24, 2014, 12:56:48 PM
Quote from: Cypress Man on July 08, 2014, 09:14:01 PM
When the truck door lifted I immediately noticed it was AWMV green not woodmizer orange. On several occasions I spoke to the Woodmizer dealer about making sure it would be painted woodmizer orange to match the LT70, inclined conveyor, transfer table, and twin blade edger I also have and I was assured that would be taken care of.
Talking to the dealer is not the same as having the color on the order. If the actual order said orange, then it's Woodmizer's problem. Otherwise it all on the dealer's promise.
For me, as long as the paint is good and the product works as advertised, the color is the manufacturers choice. And this is not like a car where it's offered in multiple colors. I would expect a color different than standard would be very difficult and expensive for most manufacturers to supply, especially with a good powder coating paint system. And the present paint job will be far better than even a professional repaint job in the field.
So Woodmizer is not the villian they are being portrayed as here. I would have put that log deck to work long ago. It's too nice a unit to leave waiting for a vanity color change.
Gary C: I have been dealing with Woodmizer for nearly 15 yrs now. I have bought 3 new woodmizer sawmills, 2 blade sharpeners, dual tooth setter, twin blade edger, sawmill extention, inclined conveyor, transfer table , and more blades, parts, and other wear items than I care to mention. I know how to place an order and I know what I want when I order it. I did not dream up the idea to paint a log deck orange. It is an option in the woodmizer products catalog to match the equipment you already have. I take great pride in keeping a clean and organized sawmill operation and have gained many customers by doing so. And after spending over $100,000.00 on new equipment I want it to match like its supposed to. I have not portrayed anyone as being a villian and as far as putting the log deck to work, the WM guy that is going to paint it said it would be easier for him to paint it if it was not installed and dirty from use with sawdust everywhere. I was waiting to use it as a favor to him not as a simple "vanity color change".
On a lighter note, when I originally posted this to vent off a little frustration, it has accomplished exactly what I wanted. I have recieved a call today from Mike Handlin at Woodmizer. He was very professional and genually concerned about all the problems I have been having. He explained to me how these problems will be corrected in the future and he is personally overseeing my problems to ensure they are QUICKLY rectified. THANK YOU Mike for all your help. Sometimes all it takes is just one phone call to make things right. ;)
Looks like the fix is on the way. :)
Cypress Man, thanks for clarifying the part about the order and even though you still did not actually said you have ordered and paid for orange, there is no question that Woodmizer has made some mistakes on your order. And I've never had any doubt that a very good company like Woodmizer would make it right ASAP.
But what did concern me was in your post to "vent off a little frustration" you had stirred up an angry group that was intent on vilifying a good company unnecessarily. Perhaps as you said, one phone call could have made everything right in the first place.
And yes, for me a high quality paint job trumps color any day. And in a production environment, it's quality, price, and service first.
When I was deciding which mill to buy, I really wanted to find both the positives and the negatives about the companies, and I could find NOTHING negative about WM. I doubted they never had problems, but I just couldn't find any negative comments. So this has been a very open and honest documentation (isn't that refreshing!) of their response to a problem, which in my mind is what really determines how good a company is. I don't think they get an "A" on this one, but I'll bet if there was a thread on what WM does right, it would rival the "weather" thread. So, Gary_C, I think full disclosure is healthy
Thanks to Cypress Man for the original post. I own a LT40G28 that I converted to a hydraulic and am happy with it and the service that I have received from Wood-Mizer in Canada. That being said, I have had experiences with companies that have made mistakes. Depending on how they respond, I can either be satisfied that the errors will be corrected in time, or it can escalate to frustration and a battle very quickly. The key difference for me on which way it goes, is whether or not the individual that I initially deal with, cares or is empathetic about my situation. Customer Service Representatives of any business need to remember that they are there to give service and that you are the customer that eventually pays their paycheque. Unfortunately, CSR's are often entry level positions in many companies and the individuals do not have the experience and or authority to assist with more challenging circumstances. This is where management must facilitate a means for the customer to be able to deal with someone who can help, WITHOUT the frustration of voicemails, callbacks etcetera.
I spend a fair amount of money on of equipment of many kinds. When deciding on where to buy, price is important but it is not the first consideration. The most important item to me, is the service both before and after the sale. If a company has poor service, they lose my business.
They have the option to purchase the deck in WMorange , And after spending $100,000 I wanted it to match like it is supposed to.
That and he said in the OP he wanted WMorange
I think he said it without those words.
Oh and the words I spoke to the dealer several times to be sure it would be orange makes me think that he did indeed order it in orange.
Quote from: DGK on July 25, 2014, 11:13:21 AM
Thanks to Cypress Man for the original post. I own a LT40G28 that I converted to a hydraulic and am happy with it and the service that I have received from Wood-Mizer in Canada. That being said, I have had experiences with companies that have made mistakes. Depending on how they respond, I can either be satisfied that the errors will be corrected in time, or it can escalate to frustration and a battle very quickly. The key difference for me on which way it goes, is whether or not the individual that I initially deal with, cares or is empathetic about my situation. Customer Service Representatives of any business need to remember that they are there to give service and that you are the customer that eventually pays their paycheque. Unfortunately, CSR's are often entry level positions in many companies and the individuals do not have the experience and or authority to assist with more challenging circumstances. This is where management must facilitate a means for the customer to be able to deal with someone who can help, WITHOUT the frustration of voicemails, callbacks etcetera.
I spend a fair amount of money on of equipment of many kinds. When deciding on where to buy, price is important but it is not the first consideration. The most important item to me, is the service both before and after the sale. If a company has poor service, they lose my business.
We all have different experiences at different times with different companies. My first experience, and my 2nd-5th with Woodmizer Canada was terrible. Would I deal with them, well yes if they have something I need that actually works before I load it.
My past experience in dealing with larger US companies has been outstanding. Customer service has been outstanding.
Personal interaction is key.
CypressMan must have been dealing with Woodmizer Canada.
"But what did concern me was in your post to "vent off a little frustration" you had stirred up an angry group that was intent on vilifying a good company unnecessarily. Perhaps as you said, one phone call could have made everything right in the first place."
From what I've read it appears there were several calls TO WM but not many the other direction which leads me to believe they either don't get their messages or don't find them important enough to respond to.
After 3 weeks this should have been handled, period.
If that's vilifying a good company so be it, deserved response in my book.
I personally can see why the OP was upset and while listing it on the internet wouldn't be my first choice he apparently contacted WM first and didn't get any satisfaction.
Quote from: hamish on July 25, 2014, 11:15:55 PM
CypressMan must have been dealing with Woodmizer Canada.
The guys in Salmon Arm BC have been great to deal with.
Quote from: tmarch on July 26, 2014, 09:11:41 PM
From what I've read it appears there were several calls TO WM but not many the other direction which leads me to believe they either don't get their messages or don't find them important enough to respond to.
The "it appears" and "leads me to believe" are exactly what is the problem here. There are at least two sides to every story and we've only heard parts of one. Clearly there have been mistakes made in this transaction and I'm sure it can be worked out without pointing fingers unnecessarily.
I agree. No one should point the finger at anyone because it will do no good. The only comments I have seen from WM, is that they have surely messed up, and after 16 days and nothing being done to rectify the problem, there is no reason to point the finger. It seems as though a huge mistake has been made, and nothing is being done to rectify the problem. Just another one of those deals where you have to shake your head and wonder what would you do if you were in his situation. I surely feel for cypressman. Please keep us updated on the situation. I really cannot believe this is still going on. I realize everyone makes mistakes, but you can always do what is right. That is what matters most. Doing the right thing. Please keep us informed and good luck.
I have been following this thread with some interest. Some posts make you think, others advocate having patience that things will work out, and still others assume the worst .... and you know, they are all correct!.
This is social media and everyone gets a say.
What is important here is what the response is!
No matter what the topic, given time, there will be a negative post, it's just a statistical fact.
So knowing this will happen, it is so important for business that they handle it quickly because it's always advertisement for the company, good or bad.
If the skateboarding dog can get millions of hits, someone better be paying attention.
If you are using social media to sell your product, use social media to sell you product.
Ah yes,but how many here would enjoy a thread like this about them and their business? If a complaint was issued from an unhappy customer and speculators and revilers piled on opinions from the wings,would anybody think it was just?
How about waiting on the outcome first and then do the judging?
Quote from: Paul_H on July 27, 2014, 11:28:35 AM
How about waiting on the outcome first and then do the judging?
Which outcome would you like us to judge?
The outcome of the DCS order which was clearly wrong?
The outcome of the 6 boxes of blades which were sent twice and still wrong?
The outcome of the log deck order and its color which was wrong?
Not to mention the clear FTC bait and switch violation by expecting the customer to pay more after the original quote was wrong?
Paul, you mentioned both sides of as story. Its rare for any company in any field to respond to such issues publicly unless the OP is flat out wrong. (a clear example was Tesla's rebuttal of the criticisms as written by the NY times reporter when his "story" clearly did not match facts that Tesla could provide)
But for the sake of argument, what exactly could you hope WM side of the story is for the above clearly incorrect issues? Generally any explanation you could provide would only seem like an excuse as to how the error was made and why it wasn't corrected before it made it to the customer.
How do i judge WM based on this thread?
I found it surprising they could let so many significant errors make it to the customer.
I found it surprising that the OP wasn't able to get better service before coming to the forum.
I am NOT surprised that moving to social media for a better response actually resulted in a much better response.
I am NOT surprised that after the above actions, the OP is now satisfied with his current order.
Overall I believe that while the tread may judge WM performance on the original orders for the OP as extremely poor, (I don't know how you could honestly believe they were anything but that), I do believe that WM has in fact either re-stated various QA/QC policies and or created new ones based on this unfortunate string of events, And that WILL make WM a better company for it.
So overall i see it as positive, the customer finally got the attention he deserved, and an outcome he was happy with, and the company has stated its making changes to prevent these style errors in the future. (so they have improved)
Touched a nerve,eh? So be it. :)
I did not buy my Woodmizer because of social media information. I bought mine solely from seeing 4 different mills being run by 4 different friends of mine.
I entered their feedback in my mind and helped each friend on each of their mills as an off bearer from time to time.
At the time, I did't even know the Forestry Forum existed.
Over time, my choice was the Woodmizer......simply because it was the best mill out of the 4 that I had come in contact with.
I hope I wear this LT40 completely out because I know I will get another one......and if I'm a wearing this one out on a daily bases.......it's because the "Little Fat Boy" is a making $$$$$$$$$$$$$. I can assure you of that and I'm glad I bought the Woodmizer and will do it again REGARDLESS of what others say. :)
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 27, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
I did not buy my Woodmizer because of social media information. I bought mine solely from seeing 4 different mills being run by 4 different friends of mine.
I entered their feedback in my mind and helped each friend on each of their mills as an off bearer from time to time.
At the time, I did't even know the Forestry Forum existed.
Over time, my choice was the Woodmizer......simply because it was the best mill out of the 4 that I had come in contact with.
I hope I wear this LT40 completely out because I know I will get another one......and if I'm a wearing this one out on a daily bases.......it's because the "Little Fat Boy" is a making $$$$$$$$$$$$$. I can assure you of that and I'm glad I bought the Woodmizer and will do it again REGARDLESS of what others say. :)
smiley_curtain_peek
Quote from: schmism on July 27, 2014, 12:15:55 PM
Which outcome would you like us to judge?
The outcome of the DCS order which was clearly wrong?
The outcome of the 6 boxes of blades which were sent twice and still wrong?
The outcome of the log deck order and its color which was wrong?
Not to mention the clear FTC bait and switch violation by expecting the customer to pay more after the original quote was wrong?
Paul, you mentioned both sides of as story. Its rare for any company in any field to respond to such issues publicly unless the OP is flat out wrong. (a clear example was Tesla's rebuttal of the criticisms as written by the NY times reporter when his "story" clearly did not match facts that Tesla could provide)
But for the sake of argument, what exactly could you hope WM side of the story is for the above clearly incorrect issues? Generally any explanation you could provide would only seem like an excuse as to how the error was made and why it wasn't corrected before it made it to the customer.
So you are basing your claims of fault on assumptions and similarities with other companies?
On the first three outcomes you have never seen both sides of the story nor seen the orders yet you are assuming you know the whole story and who is at fault. And mistakes in pricing are NOT in any way a "clear FTC bait and switch violation" as you claim.
These topics can be useful to everyone if one party refuses to take care of their mistakes, but I don't see that here and based what we all know of Woodmizer, I would expect they will take care of these problems. In the meantime, there is no point of piling on criticism from the non participants.
Last year I posted about a problem I had with my old Timberking mill. Check out the thread and read the official response from Timberking and the admin. on this forum... I think Woodmizer has responded honestly and without whining about being picked on. That's a class organization.
I would like to clearify my intent for the original post. Again I would like to say I have been a WoodMizer customer for almost 15 yrs now. I have always recieved exellent customer service, technical help, parts availability, etc... for anything I was needing. As you should be able to tell, I am a loyal WoodMizer customer even through all these problems and I love their products. Although I have delt with numerous WM employees over the years, I wasnt quite sure how the Employee/Supervisor/Management structure was in place. I didnt know if they even had a Customer Service Manager or who he was or not or what Manager was there I should speak to. I never needed his services before. When I began having these "multiple" problems recently, I would contact the WoodMizer Mississippi office and whoever answered the phone in Indy to help resolve the problems I was having. I was getting nowhere fast, no one could answer my questions to who or why these problems were happening. I thought for a while maybe I was going crazy. I then decided to write my original post to see if others were also having the same sorts of problems and if so who was the person to help resolve their issues.
Clearly this thread has sparked many opinions on both sides. I really dont have a side. Like I said "I am a loyal WM customer". I just want my stuff to be right. When you spend this much money on equipment you better know what it is your getting.
Thankfully, because of this thread, Mike Handlin responded to this thread and subsuquently called to straighten this mess up. Mike is a real nice and honest guy that gives you honest answers even when its not convenient for him to do so. I RESPECT that. Dan Bowman, the Customer Service Manager also called to help resolve these problems and I believe they are great people to work with and honestly care.
Thursday evening the "correct" log deck install kit" came in just like Mike promised. Friday I began the installation process and closely followed the manufacturers owners manual to ensure it was correctly installed. One of the first items was to bolt down the log deck to the concrete slab exactly 36" from the log deck eyebolt to the eyebolt on the log deck stand that is bolted to the mill. I installed 12 concrete bolt anchors to the log deck feet and completed the hydraulic and electrical installations. When trying the new deck, I immediatly saw the log deck arm would hit the roller guide arm on the sawmill if it were extended open. :-[ I called Mike and apparently they havent upgraded the manual to include the Wide Head LT70 specs for this section. Therefore I had to remove and cut off the 12 anchor bolts flush with the slab and move the log deck back 6"inches for it to miss the roller guide arm. I understand with all the newly added mills to their line that these things can and do happen but its no less frustrating to deal with. Mike said that they will now sent out folks from WoodMizer to install industrial equipment whenever industrial equipment is ordered to prevent these types of problems in the future and all LT70 orders have to be reviewed by him. I am convinced he can correct this in the future.
Tim from WoodMizer MS called to say he would be by Tuesday to paint the log deck orange. Hopefully in my last post Ill let everyone know what a great job was done and all this can be put behind us. Thanks again to Mike H. and Dan Bowman for all your help and understanding.
That is great. I am glad you informed us. This sounds like the positive WM remarks that I have heard about in the past while researching mills. It sounds as though they have put in place something to remedy the problem. I wish you well and hope that it works for you. Please keep us informed.
Good to hear that everything is being made right. :)
Well CypressMan, I am sure of one thing- I hope you post a video of all of your sweet equipment humming along making lumber once you get everything ironed out ;)
I was treated as a valued customer by Wood-Mizer Canada West from the time I first contacted them. I hadn't ordered anything and had said it would be at least a year before I did. Didn't matter.
Since then, every dealing I've had with them has been positive. They've sold me two sawmills (both new), an edger (used), two 6' extensions, plus several upgrades to my second mill.
I needed the first extensions in a hurry but they had just sold the last one they had. I ordered one but the truck wouldn't arrive for at least 3 weeks from Indy. Two days later I got a call -- a customer wanted to buy a 24' extension (which they had) but needed to sell his 6' extension first. Marv gave me the name of the customer, we dealt directly, and a day later there I had my extension. WM didn't make a penny from that sale (from me) but they made two customers happy.
I had an opportunity to borrow a well used sharpener and setter, both in sad shape. I contacted Gary at WM Canada West and he sold me the various bearings, shafts and springs that I needed to put the sharpener back in like-new condition. I spend about $100 total on both machines. He was every bit as helpful as if I was buying new equipment from him.
Cypress Man has every reason to be annoyed. He was hit with one screw-up after another. Things will go wrong with even the best manufacturers but this was extreme. Yet when I read over the list of problems, I see, at most, two root causes. Too many companies would just fire "the person responsible." Wood-Mizer is addressing the root causes instead. That's the sign of a world-class company.
I have read this article with amusement since one year ago I wrote a similar article about visiting WM after having bought five WM machines (Not counting Sharpener) and even though we called ahead were given less than spectacular service. One of the issues was the support for demonstrating at a 500,000 attended fair.
WM even stopped by the mill at my home and said hi. They understood that a box of blades for spending nine days sawing was not out of line. Well we have been reduced to a fair kit only.
This fair is out of our sawing territory but when 18 years ago a little boy asked his dad while visiting the mill "I thought 2X4s came from Walmart" My wife and I discussed and made some calls. By shear luck we were able to set up at the Wilson County Fair TN and have been doing this for 18 years.
This is our give back to our friends who meet us there at the fair every year and yes people have learned that I am captured there any many hold logs in the area to get sawed.
My days are filled with people wanting to own a Mill and I am happy to give them literature and show them how to saw. This will be the last year that I ask WM for support. They feel that giving me a hat and scales to give away is all that it is worth to them so be it. I am there to let young people in age or heart dream, and I will continue to do so.
I would have thought WM would have wanted to show case their equipment and I don't think 9 days of showcasing for a box of blades was out of line but that is their choice and when I buy a new mill in the future if they are around they will be on the top of my list.
I have to apologize for jumping the gun. Our fair package arrived last week but when I got around to check my E-mail I have conformation of blades coming. I wanted to make the correction and I do appreciate the support from WM.
(edit) Did they ask you to go to the fair?
Did you say what you wanted in return?
QuoteThis fair is out of our sawing territory but when 18 years ago a little boy asked his dad while visiting the mill "I thought 2X4s came from Walmart" My wife and I discussed and made some calls. By shear luck we were able to set up at the Wilson County Fair TN and have been doing this for 18 years.
This is our give back to our friends who meet us there at the fair every year and yes people have learned that I am captured there any many hold logs in the area to get sawed.
I am there to let young people in age or heart dream, and I will continue to do so.
There are 3 good reasons to saw at the fair that you listed and as a bonus it appears that you pick up some logs and potential customers.
Yes I am blessed to be at the fair with or with out support. It has taught me many things and I am happy to be there.
Instead of trying to justified why it benefits WM to have a presence or not I would rather tell a story there that change some of our views.
The fair used to have a POWWOW there which had many good craftsmen doing everything from jewelry to bows. In 2002 after 911 it was a different. My wife and I happen to notice that the vendors were not doing anything in sales. This was double hard for many of them ate on what they sold that week and one fine craftsman family happen to mention that they had sold 50 cents worth the whole day.
My wife cooks over a campfire and feeds us plus a few of the vendors. We decided to put everything that we made that year at the fair in food for our friends. One night my wife over a campfire feed over seventy people. The more I sawed the more she cooked. At the end of the fair we had feed people every night and it still was the most profitable fair we had had to date. It taught us a valuable lesson on faith.
I am happy to showcase a fine machine and I am happy that it might help a company gain. I am happy to receive support from WM and whether they do in the future or not will not stop me from breaking down my operation and going to the fair. I lose money for the week for going but I am blessed in the long run. I have also made wonderful friends.
A company is made up of individuals,real people with families and responsibilities.When the economy is good,things flow easier and plentiful but when things are bad,it's hard to remember the former blessings.
We knew a local company that used to give a turkey to their employees as a thank you around Christmas time but one year they had a extremely profitable year and they bonused the whole crew $10.000 each at Christmas time(circa 1979)
The next year was lean and the bonus was $500.00 and one employee went over to the owner demanding the same bonus as the year before.
It's good to enjoy what you are doing and anything else is a bonus.
Your reward is the satisfaction of giving. That feeling has no limitation or equal. :)