I find myself in the situation where a Bobcat alone isn't cutting it anymore. The logs and piles of slabs are getting heavier, and now I'm loading semi trailers with slabs. I thought about a heavier Bobcat, but the larger lift arms kill visibility to the point where it's hard to see out the sides of the cab. That's a no go when loading semi trucks. A telehandler would be nice, but a decent used one is in the upper 20s to low 30s. I've found some decent surplus military forklifts around, but I'm scared that I'd have no way to find parts or fix one if it breaks. I'm leaning toward a rough terrain forklift for now. I have no experience with them, just regular forklifts. What does everyone know about them? Recommendations? Machines to stay away from? It needs to start in the winter when it's 0 degrees F.
The step up from a skid loader is usually toward a telehandler, end loader, or grapple loader for loading and unloading trucks. Rough terrain forklifts or forklifts in general do not have the traction or stability for outdoor work unless you are on hard surfaces all the times. And rough terrain forklifts with large pneumatic tires have limited lift capacities for higher lifts because of the bounce in the large tires.
Probably the least cost alternative is if you can find a used low cost grapple loader to go with your Bobcat.
are you talking one of these
OFFSITE IMAGES NOT ALLOWED PLEASE READ FORUM RULES
or one of these
OFFSITE IMAGES NOT ALLOWED PLEASE READ FORUM RULES
From what ive seen, and heard of bibyman's use, the telehandler (bottom one) is a much better option than the rough terrain forklift.
If used is your game, then perhaps an older CAT 922 (or 940) wheel loader. (lift capacity of of 4000lbs ish)
The telehandler is the better option, although it doesn't work well in tight quarters and inside buildings. It also comes at 2-3 times the price of a rough terrain forklift. I need to lift around 6k pounds. I'm thinking a rough terrain forklift until I can justify the jump to a telehandler.
Used Telehandler in the 6,000lb range and short reach are much more reasonably priced then $20k. I picked up a WELL used 1985 9038 Skytrak for $8k (9,000lb 38' reach) to build my cabin. I was told I could pick up a non-CA model in Nevada in the 6,000lb size for about $3-4k but didn't have the reach I needed. Then, when I was done, I'd have to sell it out of state - too much effort.
A Telehandler has the advantage of the better reach to load and unload trucks. If you are unloading a standard log truck (without it's own loader) then you need to be able to reach up and over the bunks. That and the better off-road ability make them a good option.
Ian
I have 2 rough terrain lifts and a telehandler. They all have their applications as the one rough terrain lifts up to 35', the other is a box car model for loading rail cars off of a transfer yard making it easy to swing around but the telehandler allows me to reach the center of a trailer, and reach out into a pile and grab a log that's not right in front.
Call equipment rental companies and see what they have coming in off lease.
My issue right now is parts. My John Deere forklift is a 1980 model but parts are hard to get, champ is a 1965 model but most parts are available at auto parts stores and the telehandler is a lift king which was absorbed by Textron back in the early 90's and parts are hard to find.
Depending on how much work your doing, it might be worth while talking to a rental company or lease company and leasing an older off lease machine.
I have the Case 585D, Lifts 6000 lbs. gets around good through the winter, wish I had side shift, and I believe 4x4 would be nice at times as well. They are at times bouncy , and the back tilt could be a better,
just for reference, there is a cat tele handler up the road from me that is for sale, 2 thousand hrs with a 6000 lb capacity , it is for sale for $25000, it is in good shape.
I have two rough terrain forklifts, a Wiggins six thousand pound lift and a Wiggins eight thousand pound lift. The six is the better choice. The eight is a tank (too big and slow). It has an important function within my work system so I keep it. The six does everything I ask. It has never been stuck. It drives around town in service to others. They work well for me. I even have tire chains for winter work.
I borrowed a tele-handler for a few days and I can see how handy they are. They are also triple the cost.
With the two lifts I have a back-up machine on site. I appreciate that when one forklift is down or tied up, I am not shut down. The forklifts only get used a few minutes every day but they are critical to my operation. They save my back, improve safety and increase my productivity. By stacking lumber with the lifts I have a smaller storage area footprint, a cleaner yard and more room to work. They help me be professional when loading out Trucks and trailers. They even unload log trucks when OSHA is not watching. Can you tell I am happy with them?
Gotta get to work!
KD
I highly recommend one of these, as long as it is within your lift capacity. This one is 6,000 in close, 1,500 all the way out in front. It takes a big payloader to load a tall stake truck. A lull just laughs at lifting 20', 30' or more in the air. :D Very stable, great traction.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/2012-10-05_14-40-17_48.jpg)
A Lull like the one pictured above would be ideal. These are stout machines. We have one just like this we use at work and while rated at around 9K lbs. We have moved empty breaker tanks that weigh around 12,500 lbs. A very versatile machine. I would love to have one.
Yes a 1044 lull 8)
1044 8)
Don't think anyone has mentioned it but what about a 'bigger' tractor (Kubota M series or similar)? As I'm typing though I'm thinking it's about the same pricing but it would be a smaller footprint. Less lift? ??? (where's the 'shrug' emote? ;D) Those lulls are awesome. :) Pics of these massive slabs would be nice, LB. ;) :)
The issue is loading trailers. Not all of them have high bunks, but if you want to load over 10', it takes a big loader, or a forklift with a tall mast. The great thing about Lull type lifts is that you can load the other side of a trailer from this side. ;D Heck, you could even load a trailer on the other side of a trailer with a Lull. 8)
lift height and load limits are the main concern. Having the reaching capacity is also a big advantage. Cost verses needs is always a consideration. And it seems that the need often overrides the cost. It boils down to economics, what does one really need, and can get by with and what will eliminate loss of time,( relatively) speaking, my neighbor has the lull, not sure the model, but a real nice machine, just a monthly payment,
what used prices are you guys seeing on those lulls? i think the op is trying to avoid a 20k investment
we do everything with a skidloader. load semis, load huge logs, move slabs ect. plow snow ,back blade wood yard, also use it in the tight quarters of the finish mill.its the most versitile machine bar none. john deere 326d
I used to use a forklift when I was sawing for a timber frame shop (because that's what the shop had).
When I started buying logs I ended up using an articulated loader with a set of forks on the front (because the rent was stupidly low). I can handle 50' logs with it, or full lifts of timbers.
If I had to buy one, I'd go for an articulated tool carrier -- basically a loader with quick change mounts and parallel loader arm geometry. Second choice would be a telehandler. Forklifts and skidsteers chew up the ground in my yard. The articulated machines don't.
Have you considered a tractor heister, like a Ford 3000 . Pretty common around here. You sit facing backwards, instead of a 3pt hitch, it has a heister. Makes it rear steer.
Don't have a picture, sorry.
Frank
I have a Allis Chalmers I500 and ones like this sell for 3000 to 4000 around here all the time . Have used it for several years . It is basely a D15 farm tractor modified .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10451/P1010039_28Small29.JPG)
Thanks Bill for the picture, lots of thos used around here also.
Frank
I thought I'd show a picture that puts my problem in perspective. Picked up some pine, oak, and maple logs for a customer who wants them slabbed. Of the five on the truck I could only lift one with my Bobcat 763. The Cat skidsteer that loaded them can lift 3k, and was teetering on its tracks. I'll have to do it the old fashioned way and roll them off with a chain. These are the size logs I deal with regularly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/trucklogs.JPG)
yep! they are big! you may as well figure on at least 25-30k and be done with it, this is used equipment of course, your demands require more than most. Really not sure how you would get in yards with restrictions as to sod damage and the like, and as to bringing them to you if all you had to do is unload? well, you need some serious weight behind the hp. Have you decided on, or got close to a decision?
i can see your problem: as a specialized slab mill operator naturally you're getting all the giant logs, as such you need something that can really lift some weight. i still like the used off road forklift idea. machinery trader has some good prices sometimes...
I don't know what you can afford to spend. But an excavator would toss those around pretty easy. A 120 or 135 would be perfect. A 966 cat is also very effective and really has no boundaries. Or look at Patrick AR5's and put a grapple on it. Good luck.
Quote from: highleadtimber16 on August 17, 2014, 10:15:52 PM
I don't know what you can afford to spend. But an excavator would toss those around pretty easy. A 120 or 135 would be perfect. A 966 cat is also very effective and really has no boundaries. Or look at Patrick AR5's and put a grapple on it. Good luck.
Yep, at home a fixed(portable) grapple, would be choice! they can be picked up at times worth the money, on a trailer, you might be able to move it with the skidsteer?
I found a Cat RC60 Rough Terrain Forklift with 2600 hours. 6k pound lift. Does anyone know anything about them? Do I need to be scared of the Perkins Diesel? I'm guessing it would take a block heater or two to start in cold weather.
An excavator or loader of that size isnt practical for my application. I need to be able to lift entire logs in slab form as well for stacking in the kiln, on semis, etc.
Quote from: logboy on August 17, 2014, 11:07:51 PM
I found a Cat RC60 Rough Terrain Forklift with 2600 hours. 6k pound lift. Does anyone know anything about them? Do I need to be scared of the Perkins Diesel? I'm guessing it would take a block heater or two to start in cold weather.
I know nothing about the Cat RC60. But I wouldn't worry much about a Perkins engine, unless it had been rode hard, and put up wet. Even then they are pretty tough engines.
Didn't tule peak timber just buy one of those? Somebody around here did. :D It's a CAT. Should be a good machine, parts will be expensive. :)
I have never had a problem with a Perkins diesel starting when cold. I think they are very good and reliable engines.
I looked up the specs and the mast is too high. At 10' I can't get in both of my barns like a skid loader or regular forklift.
I got the Case 585D with the perkins, I do use the block heater when sub freezing for extended times. Just makes things go quicker. Only plug it in when needed. Your weather I'm sure is a bit colder than we have here.
I believe it should make you a good lift.
How high is your mast? If its the 105 I can probably swing it, but 120 is too high unless I relocate all my milling to my other barn.
We just bought a used R-80. Really like it so far...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/cat_R-80_1%7E0.jpg) Used it all day today for bucking logs , loading the mill, and stacking the lifts on the drying slab. Rob
Right now unloading is a two step process.
Step 1. Wrap a chain under the log. Attach one end to the truck rail, and the other to the Bobcat.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/forklift1.JPG)
Step 2. Quickly drive backwards and roll the log off and away from the truck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/forklift2.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25940/Terex2%7E0.jpg) I have the same problem. Big logs and no money to get a nice machine to move them. I had a Michigan 125A but it had a bad hydraulic pump. Too much $$ to fix so I scrapped it ($265 ton) and put money towards a new machine. I found a 1970's Terex loader that had four flat tires. I went to a few tire guys who have mobile trucks that can remount big tires and found one who was happy to trade his time for 1600' of true 2x4's (his deal). He removed the flat tires, cleaned the rims, installed new o rings (?) and remounted them. The seller could not afford to have it done but I was able to barter for the service. Once I got it home I found the breaks were frozen, so I am now bartering a 12x16 shed cut list for another guy to fix them. At any rate, what I am trying to say is that sometimes we discount what we do in our minds as something of low "value". Don't be afraid to barter and trade services and materials to get a machine. Once this machine is up and running nice I plan on mounting a snow pushing box and selling it to someone who clears parking lots. I really want a telehandler or awd forklift, it is just going to take a little time and bartering to get it! Before and after pics! ;)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25940/Terex1%7E1.jpg)
good one ludo!
Nice job Ludo. I know with the logs you handle now you're in the same boat I am. Yes slabs are a better market but they dont come easy. All of our problems are supersized. I'm still interested in hearing more about your mill. It sounds like yours cuts a lot faster and easier than my slabber.
Quote from: logboy on August 18, 2014, 07:33:03 PM
How high is your mast? If its the 105 I can probably swing it, but 120 is too high unless I relocate all my milling to my other barn.
I had to have the mast shortened as well, but not quite that low. Not sure what it cost, but said I would buy it if the mast was 11' , so not sure what to say there, I do like the lower profile tires on tule peaks's lift, just have to shop and find the deal with the right requirements.
$265/ton?!?! You boys are lucky down there
Where are located in Wisconsin? I recently looked at a rough terrain 2000 Sellick SG-60 4WD quad-mast that has a 6,000 lb lift capacity. It appeared in good shape and even carried a warranty. It has been for sale for awhile at 12K or so and might be something to consider.
I'm around Eau Claire/Menomonie. Where was the lift at? Was it a high mast?
It was sitting at Hydraulic Specialists in Shawano and the mast if I remember correctly is a three stage setup. When down it was less than 8ft but raised it could go up to at least 12 ft or higher. It did have over 4,000 hours but supposely starts good in winter and overall seemed in decent shape. For the price is seemed reasonable but a little too heavy for my use.
I need one with a mast less than 8 feet. I'd like one with 6,000 lift. But 12k sounds kind of high for 4,000 hours. Maybe I'm wrong. Come to think of it I've seen their stuff on Craigslist. They rebuild all the hydraulics on various equipment then sell it.