The Forestry Forum

Hello everyone; I am going to ask a loaded question of the experts, so here it is... ::)

I am wanting to hear realistic production numbers for an LT40 hydraulic mill with a 24 - 26 hp gas motor and a helper to offload.  I know the numbers are very dependent on situation and setup, but I am just curious what's possible.   

A friend has 40 acres of very nice red and white (post) oak that will make a sizeable pile of clear saw logs.  I have a flooring mill that is willing to pay $1.125 for FAS down to $.63 for #3 common, all I can bring them.  If I sell those logs to any of the local mills, they will pay $.40 on a clear butt log and $.25 on the next two.  Is it worth the extra time to mill them, or should I just take the logs straight to the mill and take what they pay?  I have done a fair amount of logging, and have not seen a nicer stand of timber in the area.   There is also some very pretty white oak that would go to the stave mill, but I feel like the red oak could bring substantially more if it were sawn.  I sold my Baker two years ago, and am considering a Wood Mizer because of all the great things y'all have to say about them. 

Also, how many hours do y'all have on your Wood Mizers, and do they still cut perfectly true?  I still get hung up on the monorail design, but it has GOT to be easier to set up than my Baker.  If y'all promise they cut true so long as the band is sharp, I will believe you.

Thanks in advance for any input, and I sure do appreciate the information you all share with us ignorant folks so perhaps we won't be so ignorant anymore. ;D ::)

(Oh, I just remembered, the avg diameter of the butt logs will be around 18".  The landowner is a cow man and wants grass in place of his trees.)

My mill has just a little over 2,200 hours on it and I would think it cuts as true as it did when it was new!

I bought it use in '08 and the only time I've seen it "not" cut well was when a blade was getting dull.

I have a 2006 LT 40 HD28. One of my best days me and one other person put 2300 bf in six hours. On another job with two  helpers I could hardly get 900 bfm do not ask. So how much you ca saw depends on your wood and help

I would say 3 to 4 hundred ft per hr in 1x if things go well with a helper.I have had some 3000 plus days and also some bad days.A used mill that has been aligned and serviced will cut accurate .Buying one that has been taken care of would not bother me.

Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AMI still get hung up on the monorail design, 

Generally the only folks hung up on the monorail design is folks that have no experience with them.  I would let that issue be a non-issue.

Quote from: Magicman on August 09, 2014, 09:02:33 AM

Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AMI still get hung up on the monorail design, 

Generally the only folks hung up on the monorail design is folks that have no experience with them.  I would let that issue be a non-issue.

Magic tells it like it is.  Not only is the mono rail a non-issue, it has some distinct advantages...

There are WAY to many variables that will determine how many BF you will saw.
I can saw Poplar pretty fast but saw Cedar slower due to knots. Wide White Oak needs to be sawn slower but you can saw faster on wide Pine.

I focus more on getting a board I am proud to sell more than how many boards I can stack.
Plus during the day, my phone will ring from other customers and people will be stopping by the mill also.

So basically.....saw good lumber and at the end of the day......you will have your answer.

This is the way I determine my BF on my LT40HDG29.

I'm with Magic and Piney- although other manufacturers make an issue of the Monorail design, it is a non-issue. If a WM isn't cutting straight, it's not because of the Monorail.

I like your approach Poston.

As Magicman said, the monorail design is a non-issue. If your mill is aligned, and all of your bearings are good, etc., then you will cut straight. The same as any other mill. Let any mill go into disrepair, and you will have trouble. When sawing lumber I am probably one side or the other of 300 feet an hour by myself on a Super Hydraulic. With a helper on a non-Super, I bet you will be at least that much, maybe more.

Davids advice is solid and all the others are right on as well. My take is if you want to set your all time high board footage rate just cut the biggest cants out of the biggest logs you can get on your mill and set everything up with some first class off bearers using good equipment and you will at the end of the day have set your all time personal record for board footage (bragging rights included) as a bonus you will sleep sound that night as you will have used up every amount of energy within. The alternative is simply do the math and call it good ;D , Beams add up to a lot of board footage very quickly and four passes with a little trimming/sizing you will see the highest output you can achieve in board footage.

Good post Dave. smiley_thumbsup

reading thru all the post 1,000-1,500 bft seems to be a good average to work from for gas engine the deisles seem to run 1,500- 2,000 bft.
If the day produces less look to see where you can improve and if you have better days look at what went right. keep a staedy log flow, don't get backed up with tailing piles and keed the wood moving away from the mill. Hour to hour will have even more veriables like old goats wondering thru, set a good working pace and stick to it but keep up on maintenace and produce a quality product. 
The mono rail accually has two rails (top and bottom rather then a left and right) I am running a 14 year old mill and it cuts true all day long.     

That's pretty much the same mill I have. I only run it as a hobby, but if I were cutting full time I'd shoot for an average of 2000bdft/day. But that depends a lot on the logs and your skill level. We really don't have much for hardwoods around here, but I do end up sawing them slower than softwoods.

I've seen a few people post on here that have doubts about the cantilever. It's a perfectly fine design. Our first mill had probably close to a million bdft cut on it and never even needed the bearings replaced. Just grease them once in awhile if they are the greasable type.

My best ever sawjob was a few years back and if I remember right, we sawed 2,352.5 bf in 10 hours which equals 235.25 bf/hr.

We were cutting WhitePine about 2/3 of it was 1" and 1/3 being 2".  I had 4 off-bearers on the other side of the mill, and that really helped.

Best production I've had with a 24HP non-super in red oak was 320bf/hr. That was cutting full dimension 2x8 in long lengths. The client and his sons and grandsons offloaded, and they kept me running almost non stop.

Milling 1x in oak with one helper, 150-200 bf/hr is realistic.

I had my doubts about the monorail too, until a saw one in action. Very clever design, rarely needs adjustment to the track rollers. My mill has about 4,200 hrs, 400 of those hours with me running it, cuts flat and true. Occasional guide roller adjustment, which I'm sure was true with your Baker as well. Occasional wave in cut when running across very large knots, but you'll get that with any band mill.

That open side, with the cantilever design is really hard to beat.

I don't know as I've ever really "had to" adjust my mill, I just choose to do so in the off months when I'm not sawing.

I go through the entire alignment!

It all looks so consistent on all the previous post my little tid bit could have been left off, but I felt compelled to comment. I will say this, if all the logs are at least 12" and bigger, they are ready for the deck, a lift is at the ready, slab disposal is also ready, and a good plan of attack with someone that can execute it, an 8 hour day could, and maybe should yield 2500 bdft. This said, the sawyer is not answering the phone, the help is not texting, or anything else but the task at hand, and delays which might come from break downs or log flow come into play. These mill will chunk out the lumber (very precise lumber) as most will, blade in log makes footage, period.  Chit chat makes for skant wacks. 

Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AM

I still get hung up on the monorail design, but it has GOT to be easier to set up than my Baker. 

On the earlier (mine's a 1995) LT40's, the lower track rollers engage the lower rail at 45deg from horizontal. It does make it a bit of a brain teaser the first time you adjust them. It had me spouting some colorful language. Took about an hour to figure out, get them both just touching the rail, and then adjust them in equal increments until everything is within spec.

The newer 40's have the rollers engaging the rail horizontally. They should be less confusing.

I've only had to adjust them once, and that was probably due to towing the mill without engaging the clutch lever. That lets the weight of the engine bounce going down the road, which probably caused the rollers to move.

Well, thank you to everybody for your input.   ;D  I feel like I am a cantidate for stoning with my comment about the monorail design.   ::)    :snowball:   I was just curious if any of y'all had ever had an issue with the head flexing over time, and if so, how was it fixed?  Delaware Jack, your comment about the rollers helps with what I was wondering.  The two mills I am looking at are both early 90's; one has 2000 hours and the other has over 4,000 hours.  The Baker required adjusting as well; both chains had to be adjusted just right or it would sort of shimmy down the track. 

I finally got to watch an LT40 in action today, and he kept me busy pulling lumber the whole time.  I was thoroughly impressed with the machine, and in several respects, liked it more than my Baker.   (It certainly is very thoughtfully designed)
I will never doubt the design again, and the cuts were perfect.     

I am not out to set any production records, I was just curious what you all averaged with your mills in an hours time.   I think we sawed four pretty good sized cedar logs today and ended up with about 250' of random 4/4 lumber in an hour of sawing.   

Sawing timber here in Missouri is going to be a nice change from the mesquite I milled in Texas.   I am chomping at the bit to put back a stash of quartersawn white oak for a rainy day, and that cedar we milled today was sure pretty!   8) 8)

Not a candidate for stoning. It's just that the experienced Wood Mizer owners like to put those concerns to rest quickly. As was mentioned, it's the people who have never run a WM that have the issues. ;)

I think all the mills with comparable options put out with very similar results.  Set up and willingness to be productive,(in a production sense) is the most important in getting a maximum yield for a day.  I like my lt-40 for the very reason I don't drag back the lumber, and the accessibility to the cant if easy on my back.  Ties and large cants are just that, kinda heavy to deal with by hand.  Rollers and lift trucks a must. 

You'll sometimes hear about the "Woodmizer wobble". This happens when the lower track rollers are out of adjustment. I've experienced it myself. You normally don't see it until you raise the head up 25"+ to open up a large log. When you engage the clutch, the head and mast will wobble left and right. After adjusting the rollers a couple months ago, my LT40 is rock solid from the deck to the maximum height.

Probably the biggest advantage of the WM design it that there is no flex between the main beam and the log bunks. I started out with a manual mill with two rails and a two post saw carriage. Every time you moved the mill you had to level up the two rails. With the WM, I tow it in, drop the feet. get it reasonably close to level front to back and start milling. There is no twist to deal with like you'll encounter with a two track mill. That is a huge benefit for doing portable milling.

By the way, nobody will be stoning you here. Jeff runs a tight ship. ;) We share our knowledge and help each other out. We might disagree, but it is always civil.  ;) Or else there is the "Woodshed".

It is also possible to raise the loader side of the sawmill too high and get the sawhead overbalanced.

LT40, 28 HP EFI gas engine, 2400+ hours. Cuts as true as the day I bought it.
The first mill I ran had close to 5000 hours and cut absolutely true. The pole mill down the road had an electric Super Hydraulic with over 8000 hours and cut absolutely true.

I have cut 400 BF in one hour working alone -- 12 foot logs, 13-1/2" tops, 8x8 timbers out of the centre, and 4-1x8's off the side that were edged as I cut. I only did two one-hour sessions in a 7 hour work day. The rest of the time was spent bucking and staging logs, stacking lumber, moving slabs and edgings to the rack, and edging a few 1x4's.

I have cut 1300 BF in a 7 hour day with a helper - 10' 10x10's . We could have cut more but my helper was also surface planing each timber as it came off the mill (13" wide, 40 lb portable power planer). She was determined to prove she was the equal of any of the timber framers in the shop -- could barely walk to her car at the end of the day :D. We did another half day the next day and we were done. Someone else was bringing us the logs.

I average about 50 BF per hour, day-in and day-out, week after week. That's working alone and doing every job in the business: sales, log buying, log sorting, bucking and staging, chainsaw maintenance, sawing, lumber shifting, slab bundling, loading customers, preparing invoices, and talking to people who don't have a problem spending half an hour of my time to buy one piece of side lumber.

I've done way more than that with an experienced and knowledgeable helper.

The big advantage to the cantalever design is when you are handling the larger logs, when the mills with 4 post design like the Cooks and Baker say 36" they meen 36" or you are using a chainsaw. where you can fudge a bit and mill 42" on the woodmizer.
The previous owner of my Cooks mill got a 37" oak log 12' stuck between the uprights, spent half the day trying to cut it free before making it an 8' log, Customer was not happy bringing in a 12' log and getting 8' lumber so they called me in with the woodmizer to mill his other log that was 40"

Never had an issue with the up down with the wm design, The four chain lift system on the cooks has been a bit finicky and I keep a constant eye open for a chain to jump sprocket and tilt the head. The single feed chain design just needs to have the slack adjusted out, where the two chain design of the four post mills need to be adjusted with equel tension to avoid the shimmy.

I agree with delaware jack about setting up portable. I just use a 6" level to get it close front to back and side to side, sawing down hill is better then sawing up hill. Setting up and moving the Cooks mill is a lot more involved getting all four corners leveled then leveling then rest, a water level helps, but much more time consuming. being portable I have set the WM up in many sites that the Cooks mill could not be set up in due to side hills and slopes but the wm can be set up "close enough to level". 

I like both mills when set up semi stationary just prefer the WM for portable milling.

On the TK 2000 there is 44" of clearance between the bed and mill head so just put the ugly part of the log up, 37" between the posts so don't try and wedge a 37" wide through.  Also 32" between the guide rollers.  And no TK mills don't have to be perfectly level , side to side or end works just fine just so long as the side to side is the same front and back as with ANY mill WM included. Steve

Steve is correct. it takes me about 15 minutes to set up my TK2000. I do get it level as I can but it not hard with the six crank jacks. I've never seen a Cooks mill setup so I'm not sure about them. Ricky

MesquiteSawyer,
Thanks for this post, I have been looking for a portable sawmill (have never owned one)  so this is one of the best posts I have seen to help me make a decision.   

i have owned both types .4 post and monorail. i would quit sawing if i had to go back to the 4 post design ;) wood mizer has really put a lot of thought in user comforts around the mill.

 I won't even bother giving my opinion about the faults of mills.   Steve

Quote from: ladylake on August 10, 2014, 03:24:22 PM
I won't even bother giving my opinion about the faults of mills.   Steve

Why bother? They all have them. :D

i'm just curious ladylake, have you only ran your mill or have you run others? a couple logs dosent count as running.

Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 10, 2014, 03:45:27 PM

Quote from: ladylake on August 10, 2014, 03:24:22 PM
I won't even bother giving my opinion about the faults of mills.   Steve

Why bother? They all have them. :D

My Grand-Paw ran a GRITS MILL......No faults with it at all. Folks came from as far away as Wisconsin and Maine just to get his Grits. (not is goat).  :D

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 10, 2014, 03:54:55 PM
i'm just curious ladylake, have you only ran your mill or have you run others? a couple logs dosent count as running.

I've had 3 other mills cut for me before I bought mine and was not impressed by the design , mostly over complicated and a hard time turning tough logs.  After over 9500 hours with very few break downs I'm glad I bought my 4 post TK.  I see very few problems with Cooks or Baker show up on here also.    Steve

As I've mentioned before, there are more WM mills than all others combined. Simple logic will tell you that there must be more breakdowns with WM mills, but not more breakdowns per X number of mills. If there are comparatively few TK mills out there, then you are going to see comparatively few TK breakdowns.

BTW, you don't happen to have a YouTube handle, do you?

 I sure do watch you tube and have watched  the WM rolling wreck vid by Al, hard to believe how much was wrong with that WM mill in not that many hours, I run the snot out of mine and I expect it to work everyday.  In 9500 hours I've had to call TK less than 5 times.   I saw on comment from a WM owner a couple years ago that he didn't like to saw on Sat as WM wasn't open, not really much confidence in a mill. Around 100% of my customers like my TK better that the WM they used to have saw for them but I don't piddle around on a custom job either, most tell me I'm a lot faster.  Steve

Quote from: ladylake on August 10, 2014, 05:09:41 PM
   I don't piddle around on a custom job either, most tell me I'm a lot faster.  Steve

What kind of jobs do you do with your TK?

I think you all will agree......a lot of the tear ups and break downs are from lack of common sense.
There are some people that have mills that I wouldn't dare let them get behind the controls of mine.
No what I mean Vern?

I was actually inquiring as to your account name on YouTube due to comments referencing WM and the Forestry Forum.

I don't think it's fair to base your opinion of WM on  A: your experience with one or two hired sawyers, who may or may not have know what they were doing. B: no personal experience owning or operating a WM for any length of time. C: one beat up mill that Electrical looked at.  There are people that can own a piece of equipment, whether it is a mill, vehicle or whatever, for years, and keep it in excellent repair. Then there are other people who can destroy something in such a short time that it is mind boggling. Just because that mill was almost totalled, doesn't mean it is a design flaw. If I sat on top of your TK with a D-8 CAT, would the subsequent damage be my fault, or could I use your logic and blame TK for not anticipating that someone might do that?

You are often dancing around the edge of insulting WM, but not enough to constitute an actual attack. I can understand that many people may feel a bit outnumbered by the number of WM owners on the Forum, but I don't think that is any reason to feel insecure about your sawmill. WM owners tend to be very supportive of their mills, and I see no reason that owners of other mills shouldn't also, whether it is TK, Baker, Cooks etc., but that is no reason to perpetuate what amounts to propaganda put forth by some people who do not have actual experience with WM mills.

I really enjoy running, owning and being part of the Wood-Mizer family. I do like to promote their products. But when a question comes up on the Forum, I try to be as impartial as I can when giving advice. I don't believe there is any instance where I say that anyone should only by a WM because they are the only mill worth owning. I like to hear about other mills, learning about their differences, and what people are doing with them. It doesn't matter to me if someone runs a TK, or a Woodland mill. I'm just glad they are running a mill. :)

I'm very glad that the Forum is a place where anyone with a sawmill can come to talk about what they own, what they might like to own, or even what they are just dreaming about. Constant digs from one camp really don't look good for the whole group. I have extraordinary strong opinions about the equipment I run, but I don't go out of my way to disparage someone because they like John Deere, whereas I like Kubota, or to run down Ford, when I would never buy one. There are many manufacturers of different kinds of equipment. This is great, competition keeps everyone on the level, and gives us choices.

You are often dancing around the edge of insulting WM.  Constant digs from one camp really don't look good for the whole group. ( Mostly coming from the WM camp against any other mill)

That is right but you WM owners have no problem insulting other mills and it should STOP.   I know my TK mill works great and I don't like being insulted!    Steve

When have I insulted another brand of mill? I'm sure there have been some comments made that were excessive towards many other brands, but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to make up for any and all transgressions by bashing WM specifically. I know there have been "cheerleading" comments made from the WM camp, but I don't recall a post lately that is specifically insulting.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for your milling experience, and your willingness to share it, but your attitude towards WM is bizarre.

Do you cut crane mats too? Do you sell lumber? Do you cut for a big mill like some do here? :)

Its intermission time......get ya a Coke and a box of Popcorn and take a break while we listen to the hit song from
Mel Tillis called "SAWMILL".  popcorn_smiley pepsi_smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_VWSD5U0nY

Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 10, 2014, 06:07:47 PM
When have I insulted another brand of mill? I'm sure there have been some comments made that were excessive towards many other brands, but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to make up for any and all transgressions by bashing WM specifically. I know there have been "cheerleading" comments made from the WM camp, but I don't recall a post lately that is specifically insulting.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for your milling experience, and your willingness to share it, but your attitude towards WM is bizarre.

How about I would quit if I had to run a 4 post mill????
  WM is what it is but the arrogance of some owners rubs me bad.   Steve

Where do you think the word sawbuck came from? :D :D :D :D 8)

Has anyone mentioned the logs going on the mill in the first place? Lots of awesome pics on the FF of beautiful logs decked all over back east that don't look anything like the "chicken wings' in my deck! LOL My BF rate per hour stinks- but so do a LOT of my logs to begin with. >:( Rob

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 10, 2014, 06:14:17 PM
Do you cut crane mats too? Do you sell lumber? Do you cut for a big mill like some do here? :)

No I don't cut crane mats yet, I do cut for a big mill, I sell a lot of lumber plus a lot of custom sawing.  What does all of this matter??     Steve

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 10, 2014, 06:32:44 PM
Where do you think the word sawbuck came from? :D :D :D :D 8)

I got no idea, you explain.     Steve

Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 10, 2014, 06:07:47 PM
When have I insulted another brand of mill? I'm sure there have been some comments made that were excessive towards many other brands, but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to make up for any and all transgressions by bashing WM specifically. I know there have been "cheerleading" comments made from the WM camp, but I don't recall a post lately that is specifically insulting.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for your milling experience, and your willingness to share it, but your attitude towards WM is bizarre.

Nothing bizarre here, I'm just sick of WM owners arrogance.    Steve

 Enough yet or should we get down to the specifics about what works and what doesn't.   Steve

Quote from: ladylake on August 10, 2014, 06:33:59 PM

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 10, 2014, 06:14:17 PM
Do you cut crane mats too? Do you sell lumber? Do you cut for a big mill like some do here? :)

No I don't cut crane mats yet, I do cut for a big mill, I sell a lot of lumber plus a lot of custom sawing.  What does all of this matter??     Steve

See, A TK can do all my WM can do . Is the matter, All the mills work just find.
And for the Sawbuck , I think [ old saying] came from a saw mill, Sawing and bucking.
smiley_chop splitwood_smiley smiley_trap_drummer smiley_thumbsup

There's a LOT of people watching this thread..... Hey Everybody. How ya doin'?

well here it comes :( my first mill was a tk 1999 b-20. shortly after i joined this forum, the topic was mills and i said the best day with my tk was when i sold it. you lady lake jumped all over me!
with my tk i sawed just under 800,00 b.f. so , i feel very qualified to be very critical about the unit and the service. i truely believe steve, that your actually jealous of w.m. owners but, just cant admit it. if you ran one i'll gaurntee you'd send yours down the road. i did!!! like i said before if i had to go back i'd quit. thats not a rip on tk, just my hard learned opinion.
:P

And we all have opinions :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 10, 2014, 07:01:34 PMlike i said before if i had to go back i'd quit. thats not a rip on tk, just my hard learned opinion.
:P

boy, if that's not a rip on TK, I don't know what is.  You literally said you'd give up milling (on a milling forum) if you had to go back to a TK mill, where I come from that's a rip  :D :D :D :D, let's at least agree to be honest with each other. :-[

Wow :o This is like Ford, Chevy, Dodge :) They are all good if they start in the morning and get ya' where ya' wanna go. Likewise with what's the best deer cartridge. I never saw a deer shot that complained about what it was shot with ;)

Quote from: rooster 58 on August 10, 2014, 08:04:50 PMI never saw a deer shot that complained about what it was shot with ;)

:D :D :D

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 10, 2014, 08:06:19 PM

Quote from: rooster 58 on August 10, 2014, 08:04:50 PMI never saw a deer shot that complained about what it was shot with ;)

:D :D :D

I think its bout time for another intermission.  :D

Hey Dave, Great song smiley_thumbsup

[/quote]

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on August 10, 2014, 08:08:25 PM

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 10, 2014, 08:06:19 PM

Quote from: rooster 58 on August 10, 2014, 08:04:50 PMI never saw a deer shot that complained about what it was shot with ;)

:D :D :D

I think its bout time for another intermission.  :D

popcorn_smiley smiley_trap_drummer smiley_curtain_peek

Peter...your reply is in stereo.  ;D     I see you fixed it.   :)

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 10, 2014, 07:01:34 PM
well here it comes :( my first mill was a tk 1999 b-20. shortly after i joined this forum, the topic was mills and i said the best day with my tk was when i sold it. you lady lake jumped all over me!
with my tk i sawed just under 800,00 b.f. so , i feel very qualified to be very critical about the unit and the service. i truely believe steve, that your actually jealous of w.m. owners but, just cant admit it. if you ran one i'll gaurntee you'd send yours down the road. i did!!! like i said before if i had to go back i'd quit. thats not a rip on tk, just my hard learned opinion.
:P

After reading all the WM problems on here you HAVE to be kidding.    I did fix a couple of design problems when I first got my mill like the cord reel and drive side guide wheel, apparently you didn't  .  Once fixed my mill works great with many customers (formerly WM customers ) making comment like you can saw all day and don't have to work on it. If you like your WM mill fine but keep it to yourself as I'm not going to sit here and take your insults about a mill that works GREAT. Steve

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on August 10, 2014, 08:13:16 PM
Peter...your reply is in stereo.  ;D     I see you fixed it.   :)

I'm all ways in stereo, It's Ray that's mono. :D :D

 I was told by whom I believe a wise (ole) man, one who would most likely run me under the ground working a mill, pick your fights!  this one is one of those without a doubt. It's not just the mill, the logs, or the region.  It's about loving what we do, making the best of out decisions, and living with these decisions, and then moving on, lifting folks up as we go the best we can.  I've seen many a mills and scenarios, to saw is a blessing, and to make money is bonus. Kinda, chumpy comment, but really, there are lots of occupations, and they are all voluntary.

you say you have 9000 hrs on your mill, how many board feet has it cut? hey i'm happy your mill works for you
mine didnt and i'm not shy about telling people. :) how is speaking about problems being an insult? i have ran alot of equipment many differant brands and types large and small.  when somethings good i say so, when somethings not i say so.brand dosent mean dittle to me ,how something preforms and holds up means everything.
if we cant give our honest opinoins about equipment then we havent done justice for anyone. how many times have you steve made a buying decison based on someones personal expeiance? my guess is often.

I think one of the admins must have goofed and accidentally combined two threads. The original post was about BF per hour on a hydraulic WM mill, not about who's equipment is best ::).

Maybe someone could start a topic on the "members only" board and move all the "my mill is better than your mill" discussion over there.

I agree on the splitting of the thread, but it isn't entirely about who's mill is better. There are other ongoing issues at work.

its not mine is better than yours, just stating issues :)

 popcorn_smiley

Just stand back y'all (sp?), and let them do their thing..............

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Quote from: Delawhere Jack on August 10, 2014, 09:11:44 PM
Just stand back y'all (sp?), and let them do their thing..............

https://www.youtube.com/cTZ7jh8o

This link does not work.

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on August 10, 2014, 09:12:43 PM

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on August 10, 2014, 09:11:44 PM
Just stand back y'all (sp?), and let them do their thing..............

https://www.youtube.com/cTZ7jh8o

This link does not work.

Thanks Dave...... For the life of me, I can't figure out how to embed a YT vid. done it before...... Blame it on the full moon.........or maybe I'm getting a little RAMMY!!!  :D

works on mine, mine must be better :D 8) 8) no it didnt work just yankin chains :D :D

It was a couple whitetail bucks sorting things out, in the way that they do........

Cool off guys. We're family here.

They're fine :D :D :D

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 10, 2014, 09:53:40 PM
They're fine :D :D :D

I've got four brothers...... If looks could kill......... well..... Must be the Irish... ::)

Jeff,

Please accept my sincere apologies for taking a baseball bat to the hornet's nest.  I will try not to do that again.  :D

Honestly, all I ever really wanted was some good feedback on what to expect from an LT40, and I got some great answers, so thank you to all that contributed. 

Can I just say that I did a lot of homework before I bought my first mill, and actually ended up buying an 8" Lucas.  I kept it long enough to saw about 10 logs, and realized I was too stupid to figure out how to be efficient at it.   >:(   I called Baileys up and told them I wanted to return it, and they were awesome.  To this day, I bet they still talk about that crazy customer that returned his Lucas mill.  (To my knowledge, I am the only one that had ever returned one.  Talk about feeling foolish!)

I then proceeded to continue my research, and ended up buying a Baker because of the way they are built.  I was convinced it was the greatest mill ever!  If you have ever seen one, they are an impressive piece of iron.  I really think you could drive a D8 over one and it would be fine.    I quickly learned that setting up on location wasn't quite as easy as I had hoped it would be, but once you were set up, it was a cutting dude.   8) 8) 8)   

I might have made a very different decision if I had seen each of the different brands in person.  I was too timid to go find somebody that owned one in person and go make a nuisance of myself.  I should have found one of each and gone to pull lumber for a day around the mill.  I am finding that they all have great features, and each one of them contributes to the whole industry, moving it forward.  Having now run three different brands, including a swing mill, I can honestly say that a Wood Mizer is definitely the most ingenious setup.  The Baker is the strongest.  The Lucas was awesome for doing really wide crotch slabs.   

I think a sawmill is like anything else.  If one brand had it all, nobody else would be able to compete.  It is impossible to build something without sacrificing one thing to achieve another, because I think one thing is important, but my neighbor might place a higher value on some other feature.

I am confindent that Cooks and Timberking both make excellent mills as well, along with the many other brands that are available.  I know I have never owned any piece of equipment that I have not modified to make work a little more to my liking, and I am certain many of y'all are probably the same. 

With all of that being said, I have read along on the forum for many years, and have learned a tremendous amount from each of you.  "Thank you for the education!"

Now, if you still must fight about whose mill is the best, I can host a shootout here in Missouri and I will provide the location and the logs.  You guys can drag your mills down here and I can get a first hand education and a lot of milling done for free.   :D
I will provide an unbiased report on who whipped who, and then somebody can have bragging rights for a year.   8) 8) 8)

Just going back to the original question;

One of the mills I work with here, there old LT40 Hydro has over 17,000 hours on its, still cuts as straight as...
I do know of another one however with slightly less hours that cuts, but that's about as nice as I will be about it... (the mill got rolled down a bank and they "tried" to fix it"  ::)

And as for board footage?
Here's the worst production figure I get as opposed to the best...

I've found with one helper doing LARGE HARD DENSE annoying hardwoods (eucalyptus) into flooring (loads of quarter sawn boards) I can get down as low as 1 cubic meter or 420board feet for a day (7 hours) BUT that's log to all edged and stickered / stacked and banded.
this is usually with the bigger end of the trees (you might only do a couple of logs in a day as often they might need splitting with the chainsaw first)

This is on a '97 LT-40 super running the lombardini diesel engine, so its got torque and I use every bit of it.
This is also portable so often I don't always have the luxury of other support equipment to nudge heavy stuff around (chews more daylight)
Plus farmers with tractors close to the mill make me nervious so I prefer to just do the job slow and steady, keep a watchful eye on the wood and churn out a great product without busting stuff.

Now, one thing to add to the "great mill debate"
In NZ we have very limited choice so feel lucky you people that can choose! - although we do have great choice for swing mill setups here  ;D
So woodmizer was really my only true commercial choice for a bandsaw mill to fit with my needs which is fine, but I have to say after watching some of the video material from other suppliers bashing the monorail design I just thought there out and out lying or making an issue from nothing? put me off those companies right away. (again not that they sell into the asia/pacific market anyway)

Just my 10c worth anyway...

OH PS - I'm in New Zealand

Cheers

Justin

Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AM
Hello everyone; I am going to ask a loaded question of the experts, so here it is... ::)

I am wanting to hear realistic production numbers for an LT40 hydraulic mill with a 24 - 26 hp gas motor and a helper to offload.  I know the numbers are very dependent on situation and setup, but I am just curious what's possible.   

A friend has 40 acres of very nice red and white (post) oak that will make a sizeable pile of clear saw logs.  I have a flooring mill that is willing to pay $1.125 for FAS down to $.63 for #3 common, all I can bring them.  If I sell those logs to any of the local mills, they will pay $.40 on a clear butt log and $.25 on the next two.  Is it worth the extra time to mill them, or should I just take the logs straight to the mill and take what they pay?  I have done a fair amount of logging, and have not seen a nicer stand of timber in the area.   There is also some very pretty white oak that would go to the stave mill, but I feel like the red oak could bring substantially more if it were sawn.  I sold my Baker two years ago, and am considering a Wood Mizer because of all the great things y'all have to say about them. 

Also, how many hours do y'all have on your Wood Mizers, and do they still cut perfectly true?  I still get hung up on the monorail design, but it has GOT to be easier to set up than my Baker.  If y'all promise they cut true so long as the band is sharp, I will believe you.

Thanks in advance for any input, and I sure do appreciate the information you all share with us ignorant folks so perhaps we won't be so ignorant anymore. ;D ::)

(Oh, I just remembered, the avg diameter of the butt logs will be around 18".  The landowner is a cow man and wants grass in place of his trees.)

I'm no expert just my opinion
your best brd ft per hour will come if you have  a great setup, logs flowing in, scrap taken away efficiently, and boards handled only once. you can get some great brd/ft per hour with a great setup. mostly by myself I average around 150 brd ft per hour. that is doing everything on my own. not setup perfectly. that is for sure.
I have worked a couple of portable jobs with lots of helpers and large equipment and the sawing was very productive.
close to 500 ft per hour. doesn't matter to me what type of mill you have, everything breaks down and needs service and maintenance, it is all in the setup and material flow.

The most lumber gets sawed on the dinner bench before work and at lunch.

Quote from: Alligator on August 11, 2014, 08:14:42 AM
The most lumber gets sawed on the dinner bench before work and at lunch.

You're right 'Gator.  :)

i'm fine ;D if i was to get upset.. me would be escorted to  the woodshed and givin some leather goods, a belt in the mouth and a boot in the rear( old saying) :D :D

I'm scared some one from WM might come after me in my sleep because I have a Thomas Band mill
Jim Bruno of nh

There are bigger worries, somebody might mail you grits. :)

@POSTONLT40HD (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14625),I betcha none of my relatives went to WI to your Grand-Paw grits mill.  :D Pony express would of taken too long too.

It's all fun and games to argue about which mill is better than the others (I'm with Bruno - Thomas is best, and I'm basing it on tons of experience...tons of experience watching their videos on youtube).

But some arguments can go to far and I think a couple folks may have stepped out of line here.  I mean seriously...we're all in agreement that 30-06 is the best deer cartridge, right?

I'll jump on the Thomas Bandsaw Mill Wagon too.  ;D
And I will even throw in a spring time sawing picture.



 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarm2012sawmill.jpg)

Quote from: BigJim2185 on August 11, 2014, 09:04:10 PM
It's all fun and games to argue about which mill is better than the others (I'm with Bruno - Thomas is best, and I'm basing it on tons of experience...tons of experience watching their videos on youtube).

But some arguments can go to far and I think a couple folks may have stepped out of line here.  I mean seriously...we're all in agreement that 30-06 is the best deer cartridge, right?

Obviously you have no concept of trajectory and it's effect on point of impact at estimated ranges!!! 270 Winchester is the greatest deer cartridge ever devised!!!

If I had to hunt with an 06' I'd turn vegetarian!!!

;)

sorry but, how can giving feedback on equipment be stepping out of line?life dosen't sugar coat things and neither do i. :)

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 11, 2014, 09:25:15 PM
sorry but, how can giving feedback on equipment be stepping out of line?life dosen't sugar coat things and neither do i. :)

:D :D :D :D :D :D smiley_thumbsup

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 11, 2014, 09:25:15 PM
life dosen't sugar coat things and neither do i. :)

But you are a sweet guy.  smiley_love       :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 11, 2014, 09:25:15 PM
sorry but, how can giving feedback on equipment be stepping out of line?life doesn't sugar coat things and neither do i. :)

Your posts were all just fine by me.  I was referring to the guys implying there may be a better cartridge than the .06, when any objective analysis makes it clear that other cartridges AT BEST kill deer 85% as dead.  BTW, noticed the mounts on your office wall in a previous thread - nice work. 

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on August 11, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
Obviously you have no concept of trajectory and it's effect on point of impact at estimated ranges!!! 270 Winchester is the greatest deer cartridge ever devised!!!

If I had to hunt with an 06' I'd turn vegetarian!!!

;)

The 270 certainly has its merits.  If I ever have a daughter, I will teach her to shoot with a 270 until she is ready for her first real gun.  Ehh, who am I kidding - I'm just jealous you have mule deer and get to take clear shots over 50 yards :D   

A 243 is not bad for training those youngsters too. My 12 year old took his first 200lbs. 8 point with a 243.
this past season.  ;D

Since we're officially fully off topic, congratulations!  Tried to find a pic quick in your gallery, but didn't see one.  Point the way if there's one around somewhere.  200lbs dressed?  My son is just turning 1.  Can't imagine how proud I'll be when he gets his first big deer.

 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/P_L_001.jpg)
What chew talkin' 'bout  ???


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0668_28Copy29.JPG) 
Everybody knows dat ah Browning A Bolt .280 whoops um all.   :D

Quote from: BigJim2185 on August 11, 2014, 09:44:59 PM

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 11, 2014, 09:25:15 PM
sorry but, how can giving feedback on equipment be stepping out of line?life doesn't sugar coat things and neither do i. :)

Your posts were all just fine by me.  I was referring to the guys implying there may be a better cartridge than the .06, when any objective analysis makes it clear that other cartridges AT BEST kill deer 85% as dead.  BTW, noticed the mounts on your office wall in a previous thread - nice work. 

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on August 11, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
Obviously you have no concept of trajectory and it's effect on point of impact at estimated ranges!!! 270 Winchester is the greatest deer cartridge ever devised!!!

If I had to hunt with an 06' I'd turn vegetarian!!!

;)

The 270 certainly has its merits.  If I ever have a daughter, I will teach her to shoot with a 270 until she is ready for her first real gun.  Ehh, who am I kidding - I'm just jealous you have mule deer and get to take clear shots over 50 yards :D   

Who are you calling a MULE!?!?!    :D David may be a goat, and last week he was a turtle......and a squirrel before that, but ......... wait, now I'm getting confused........

OH YEAH, 270 Winchester or else EAT YOUR PEAS!  :)

(Actually, took a BIG doe at 242 yards a couple years ago. She bolted into the thicket but only about 20 yards before she expired. 120-130lbs before dressing.)

WOW, nice pics !!! :o

Guess we've all got deer season on our minds, just around the corner!  :) :) :)

Quote from: Magicman on August 11, 2014, 10:14:25 PM

Everybody knows dat ah Browning A Bolt .280 whoops um all.   :D

I suppose you've shot 1 million "BORED BUCKS".  :D :D :D :D

Looking at your first pic....not much body mass to your deer but nice rack.  ;D

Magicman I want to talk trash but I ain't qualified.  Great pics.  I guess the real question is...WM vs. all - who kills more deer?  I'll put one up for the four-posters, but magicman has the cantilever guys way out front. 



 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36697/2011_Maine_Rifle_9pt.jpg)   

There's no way you shot that with a four post rifle........ :D

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on August 11, 2014, 11:23:13 PM
There's no way you shot that with a four post rifle........ :D

I've heard it all now.  :D :D :D

ROFLMAO   :D  :D  :D

now i gotta take and post pics of all my wall hangers :) which for sake of proving a point were all takin with a 06 :D

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on August 11, 2014, 11:23:13 PM
There's no way you shot that with a four post rifle........ :D

  Must have been a 4 post stand to steady that rifle.   Steve

Quote from: red oaks lumber on August 12, 2014, 06:27:05 AM
now i gotta take and post pics of all my wall hangers :) which for sake of proving a point were all takin with a 06 :D

Of course they were - if you were using anything else they'd still be out running around. 

Can't wait to see the pics of your mounts.  I bet they are stickered perfectly.

Quote from: BigJim2185 on August 12, 2014, 07:29:39 AM
Can't wait to see the pics of your mounts.  I bet they are stickered perfectly.

Reckon I could use a few pointers on this one... seems no matter how well I stack and sticker 'em, they still get moldy after a few days... worse than dead stacked yellow pine in the summer.  Them deer must be kiln dried? ???

First 'ya whack 'em, then 'ya stack em 8) 8) 8)

But just for the record, y'all are usin' the wrong gun. With a quarter bore It whacks 'em, guts'em, and quarters 'em. No need to sticker 'em. Just wraps 'um and freeze 'um ;)

Now you guys know full well that I have reserves hidden in my gallery, and yes there are some 4 posters there.   ;D

   Result of .270 remingtom pump, a few here did get a .280 bug  ;D 


  To get back on topic.....  ::)   I have an old 93 lt40hd that I got new then, it sits with 7500hrs on it and still cuts true as when it was new, mind you it does not have as much humph as when new but still has the same motor A 24 Onan that came with it back in 93.
   I am far from being painted orange and have always taken time out from a drive to stop and see a mill if time permited it. No matter the color or make of it, if I had time I would stop and chat with the operater if he had time also. There all good, they all have the querks and all have there perks, it all boiles down to what you like of a mill. Its only as good as the operator can make it work.  :)

This discussion wasn't about who makes the better mill, it was about the constant attacks of WMs quality based on hearsay and conjecture. I personally don't care what anyone runs, I'm ecstatic every time I run my WM, and great faith in the company and it's products. What I don't want is for WM to be run down by people who have never run one, and have no personal perspective on the mill.

danreed 76
the biggest thing with air drying,you need as much air flow as possible.in the middle of a field is ideal. air flow is what carries the water out of the stack.
hardwoods on the other hand still need air flow but, at a slower rate as to not remove water to fast.if i can i try not to cut alot of hardwoods to be stickered in the spring or fall to fast of drying conditions. the more humid months of summer provide a safer climate to  air dry.
sticker placement wont help with moldy or stained lumber, :) only if they are to thin to abstruct the air flow

Dave..... When I answered this thread.. THE TITLE WAS , AND IS ..'''    How many board feet per hour on an LT40 hydraulic   

  That being said, I fully agry with you ;)  :)

Dave,

I hope you know I wasn't bashing WM.  I am looking at two used LT40's and wanted some honest feedback from folks that were using them.  I really only had heard things about them, and I wanted to hear some real life production numbers and how many hours people had put on theirs.  I pulled lumber for a while off a 1992 LT40 with 2100 hours on it, and couldn't have been more impressed.  The mill cut excellent, and was easier to get around than my previous mill.  I was hoping to go look at the second LT40 (1993 with 4,000 hrs)  sometime later in the week, but if I don't get to, and this one is still available, I will probably purchase it.  One thing I have seen is the resale is awesome on one, and they don't last long!
-Mark

My comments did not have anything to do with your posts.  :)

lest we all forget the 250 savage for those long shots, I would show you pictures but I think you can get the gist. 3x3 buck feild dressed, fit an orange in his basket and fold him up with feet on, place him in an orange box and slide the lid on fully and toss in the bow of the boat. S.E. AK.
30-30 open sites best brush gun hands down.

yep, Yep',  just re-read the thread, there are some numbers to base a day on.  Just remember, blade in the logs means something to move pretty quickly.  this will add to the footage more than anything else.  Your results may vary, but should be close if dust if flying, and your numbers are right. 

To the original topic, material handling is everything, regardless of the brand of the mill. Mills of similar size and HP, running the same bands will cut basically the same bf per hour.

Efficiently loading logs, and offloading slabs and boards will make a much bigger difference than which brand of mill your running.