I may beable to pickup close to 200 acre woodlot in the future that adjoins my 100 acre property with 60 acre woodlot.I am mid 50's but have 2 kids that are going to be building here.My son wants to build with wood off the property.Well I was thinking of picking up an older small skidder and doing our own logging should I pick up this other woodlot.That way I could really selective cut and sell off a couple of lots to cover the cost of the rest of the property.What would be a nice cheaper machine for a homeowner setup.I kinda like the older JD 440's.Are other ones less expensive ? We could do a portion of the mechanical servicing ourselves.Thank you. Ed
A 440 is a good machine...heard parts are a little steep. A small Tree Farmer or Timber Jack are both good choices also. Most of the parts you can get from a NAPA store. Many use tractors to get logs out...though with my luck I would puncture the tires on something. lol Good luck with your endeavor.
Lot of old skidders out there, I'm kinda fond of my 440...
But pretty much all the factory Skidders are good stuff.
Timberjack, mountain logger, international/houghs, Deere, cancar/garrett/treefarmer/franklin, Clark, I'm sure I'm missing some...
Deeres can be a bit pricey on some if the factory only parts, but most of the bits you can still get, and maintainance stuff you can get at NAPA, filters, fuel pumps etc...
I recommend Clark. Easy to operate and fairly easy to work on. A Clark 664 or 665 with a Cummins would be ideal in my opinion.
Pick up an older skidder and retrofit it with an Igland dual spool winch. Would be an awesome wood getting machine. If money is good for me, I hope to change out the old gearmatic with one sometime within the next year or two.
Here's a simple way of looking at it. What's common in your area. Timberjack is the most common here. Deere second. That makes it easier to find parts info mechanics that are familiar with the machine.
Timberjack and Treefarmer seem to be the machines that have the reputation for being fairly easy to work on, and they are common so you can get parts-some are off the shelf like from NAPA. There are also lots of boneyards that have them so you can get used parts, too. I have a Pettibone 501, it's a nice machine but from what I've heard some of the driveline components were Pettibone specific and are no longer available.
My C5D Tree Farmer is the simplest thing to work on that I can imagine. Small, light and pulls great. Mine has a 5 cyl. Deutz and it is hard to believe how little fuel it uses.
I bought a 1977 Clark 664B about 10 years ago. I thought I wanted a JD 440 but the Clark has turned out to be one tough skidder as far as small skidders go.
Seems to be some nice Clarks out there for sale. The orange seems to bring more money if there not all trashed. I do like the ease of getting off and on of the 200 series Jack though which can mean alot when your doing cordwood.
David l
Those 664b r nice machines. friend has one. Bought it off great northern when he worked there. It was the end of the era when paper companies actually managed their own land. It is like new. 353 and full wrap diamond chains all around. bwap bwaaaap!
Quote from: SliverPicker on August 23, 2014, 01:03:20 PM
My C5D Tree Farmer is the simplest thing to work on that I can imagine. Small, light and pulls great. Mine has a 5 cyl. Deutz and it is hard to believe how little fuel it uses.
This is an old original post of mine. A dealer about 4 hrs from me has quite a few. How are parts availability on 1978 C5's ? This looks like a machine in my size range since I would not want to tear up my woodlot with a bigger machine and would not use it during spring mud season. Also seems small enough that I could do some small jobs locally ---- mostly firewood logging jobs. Nothing more than heavy duty homeowner stuff. Thanks, ed
Honestly being near Troy / Hoosick you've got options for parts, your not far from Cat, Nortrax, Andy is in Lake George if you bought an older Timberjack.
Ask yourself how much your going to use it ? Right now theres some nice machines for decent money, another 240C for sale over in Schenevus.
I had a Deere 440 one of the first ones. I like much 208 tj much better.
Guys, i sometimes hear complaints about not being able to buy a small skidder anymore. Well, there is a new "toy" in euroland. Been a few years out now. Latil Hittner.
You have the small ecotrac 55V
Hittner EcoTrac 55V in action on AUSTROFOMA 2019 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/IiytKdkgX_8)
The 120v
Hittner EcoTrac 120V in action 29.7.2016. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/_DY3V7VfAnM)
Up to the ecotrac 140.
Un petit skidder Latil-Hittner de faible largeur se faufile dans des pistes très étroites - YouTube (https://youtu.be/vN0LqPnluEE)
Nice! That 55v would be a nice little machine in thinning with the sual drum winch, especially if they are set up with remote control. These are made in Croatia?
@Satamax (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9153) , nice machines, do you know how much they are?
Well, contact hittner, they will tell you.
I have heard 65000 for the 55V version, but i think i have also seen it advertised for 25000€
So dunno.
A buttplate that engages the dirt just about doubles what you can winch in. The euro machines have that part figured out.
Someone ought to build new glider skidders. Pop in your old/reman 6BT or 453 etc and off to the races.
Quote from: mike_belben on August 10, 2020, 06:29:21 PM
A buttplate that engages the dirt just about doubles what you can winch in. The euro machines have that part figured out.
Someone ought to build new glider skidders. Pop in your old/reman 6BT or 453 etc and off to the races.
Someday I will build a hydraulic butt plate or some kind of brake like that. Mine will stand it up on the back tires with the e brake on but I don't like it.
You wont regret it. I dont even set the brake when winching.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0617201002a-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593139849)
That is an impressive little machine for sure. The winch has some serious giddy up go!
I'm not going to knock the 440s, I started with one and still have one, but most of the ones still kicking around are thrashed, parts can be odd, I wouldn't take another 3325 machine if it was given to me. A couple bucks more and you can buy a touch bigger machine which does 2x the job and honestly, the foot print isnt any bigger with a skilled operator. I've been hunting another cable skidder for a spare, looked at 1x 640D in Fort Ann a few weeks ago, found 3x other nice ones in the northeast. Theres a real nice 640D with 23.1 rubber in western NY for 28k, do all the work you want, not as tippy, not the same winch drama. Forester considered my 460 a "small" machine after that job got hammered by 632E tigercats 😆 I move a 640L for another guy regularly, you want to see Deeres smallest machine now 😆 that 240C in Schenevus is a nice machine, the guy had 3x of them, again modern parts, better winch, no detroit.
I am also looking to buy a small skidded in the coming months. I am located in Australia, there is very little for sale here at present. I've been reading up quite a bit about the pros and cons of various models. There is a JD440 coming up locally however as I'm heading into to very steep country I would prefer a TJ preferably an older one with the ford motor or one that has had the GM swapped out as I'm not sure I want to listen to that thing. Would also look at other brands, maybe a Clark or something else. I am located on the qld / nsw border region.
There is a TJ 209, iirc. That has a Perkins 4.236. in Europe, plenty of Deutz swapped ones too. Noisewise, it is not that much of an improvement.
Thanks Satamax, maybe I should give a Gm a go, I'm good at repairing 4 stroke type diesels, just never been near a 2 stroke so it's new ground for me.
My short encounter with a 6-71, makes me think I wouldn't like one in a skidder. They overheat at low rev. Guzzle diesel, repairs to the blower can be costly. For the rest, they are easy to work on.
My experience with the 3-53 Detroit that is in many, many small cable skidders is that they are REALLY LOUD, really easy on fuel, and have decent power.
Nothing wrong with a detroit, honestly they are a good engine, parts are still around. Just make sure you slam your hand in the door so your in the right mood to run it 😆
My big forktruck has a 353 that has been great. Ive done nothing but change oil and hardly ever add fuel. But it pretty much needs to see 3/4 throttle to get out of bed. Theres no quieting one down. You muffle yourself, not it.
Yeah ok. Thanks for the input fellas. I can live with muffling myself, done plenty of work where I had the earplugs plus the ear muffs. Carbon arc gouging and 9 inch high cycle grinder as a welder so the idea of making a lot of noise in the mountains is growing on me. It's fairly remote country so it's not going to bother anyone. I've done logging previously with dozer and wheel tractors but I have not had a skidder. For the interim while I'm looking for a good skidder I am setting up an old model Zetor tractor that has front wheel assist, 70hp with front blade, I'm setting up a big old 40,000 pound pto drive winch on the 3 pl with a butt blade and a draw bar pull wheeled logging arch. The winch is very slow 50feet per minute, the zetor has ground speed PTO so I'm hoping I can use the tractor gears while in neutral on the high low lever to create several speeds for the winch with the higher gears giving a higher winch speed. Just got the speeds idea yesterday so haven't tried it yet.
BargeMonkey, I did get a good laugh with the slam your hand in the door. :D
Would love to see some fab pics.
I thought ground speed pto only moved if the tires moved? Great for making a tractor into a forwarder.
Am i wrong?
Quote from: BargeMonkey on August 14, 2020, 02:20:04 AM
Nothing wrong with a detroit, honestly they are a good engine, parts are still around. Just make sure you slam your hand in the door so your in the right mood to run it 😆
Kind of like banging your head against the wall..... It feels so good when you stop. ;D
Those Detroit's are load, I can here one 3 miles from my house. Looking for a smaller machine than 7 ton (440C) so I can haul myself. I see a TJ 207D but can not find weight of it? Other ideas?
I read before how in the Canadian maritime provinces the ground speed pto tractors were pretty popular for building kind of a forwarder. They'd build a trailer they called a power trailer with a truck rear end and power it with the pto, put a log loader on it and you got yourself a forwarder.
Lot of old european homemade forwarders built that way too. They have shows and get togethers of them, like a forestry parade.
Mike, the ground drive pto can be active utilising the gears while the tractor is stationary by putting the high / low range gear in neutral. I've used it a few times where I need to get the pto in the reverse direction. There is an old caterpillar D2 on the farm and the pony motor is not running so I put a pot shaft between the Zetor and the cat , run the pto in ground drive reverse with high / low range in neutral , works very well, let the cat main engine warm up just as you would with the pony motor, when the exhaust manifold is warm then give the old girl some fuel on the throttle and there's always a very healthy grunt to follow and the cat is running, through the pony clutch and then shut down the zetor. Always a bit of a nuisance if you happen to stall the cat while working it though.
You made me think for a day, I was nearly going out to run a trial but it's a cold day and the wife , kids and myself have a head cold so not much got done and then I remembered how it works.
Wow neat..
So the zetor can have the same shaft turn at rear diff speed and direction.. And also be selected to run as a regular pto? Is it a 540/1000 or just a whatever it is off the countershaft sort of speed? And the pto has a reverser?
This is sounding too good to be true.
Well yes it does have 540 / 1000 however the ground speed is a seperate selector. The reverse is achieved by selecting reverse gear. I have never tried it in the other forward gears except 1st forward however i will give it a try over the next few weeks just to be sure. I bought a little electronic rev counter a few days ago and so as soon as I can get a few spare hours I'll try the other gears while stationary and count the PTO actual speeds.
Awesome! Is this setup found on any other tractor or unique to zetor?
I've got a 60hp John Deere 4x2 that I do hay with, it has it though it is actually a badge swap that JD did with zetor in the 90's. I haven't had personal experience with others though I believe that other European tractors like Same, Valtra have this type of setup. I've watched ground drive forestry trailers on U tube with these brands.
I've run the tests with the rpm counter. Normal 540 pro gives around that (540) at about 90% revvs (2200 engine revs) a separate lever puts it into 1000 PTO which achieves just over 1000 at 2200 engine revs. The ground speed PTO is a completely separate setting where 540 / 1000 becomes irrelevant. 1st gear forward achieves about 350 rpm PTO. Top gear 5th achieves about 1300 rpm PTO which can be done stationary if the high /low range lever is in neutral.
So it will work well for the winch, it means I can get the winch to go about 2.5 times faster than the 50ft per minute plus can make it go slower and everything in between.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61818/F30E0B27-1D54-492C-8E00-6606AA21EC54.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1597550141)
I was very fortunate to pick up this winch for $400au. I watched out for one for about 3 years and this I a very serious logging winch for heavy Australian hardwood. It was manufactured in Sydney Aust. It was built to be compatible with an Oliver crawler and it is most likely about 90 years old, certainly 80 years. It was tied to a tree and the tree had grown around it but it was also covered with corrugated iron. It still has oil in it, turns over and seems to be in very good order. It pulls 40,000 pound or approximately 20 tonne.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61818/DA4B79FF-B8E2-44AA-83B4-5045B742F128.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1597550692)
Here it is the day I bought it
This is funny, looking for the specs of your winch, gumtree still has the pic from the ad.
https://www.google.fr/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=britstand+winch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiatoWEw5_rAhXP4IUKHYSlCGIQsAR6BAgKEAE&biw=1280&bih=616#imgrc=Cm5cCjuMxu2qBM (https://www.google.fr/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=britstand+winch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiatoWEw5_rAhXP4IUKHYSlCGIQsAR6BAgKEAE&biw=1280&bih=616#imgrc=Cm5cCjuMxu2qBM)
The catalog of which the pic above is from, was published in 1950. So 70 years old for the winch, or thereabouts.