Hello all, I am new to this site and I have some questions for you who have a mill and have been milling lumber.
I am 18 years old and live in central Missouri, I have been contemplating buying a mill for probably 2 years but haven't had the money to go pay cash for one, I have acquired the money and am now looking at a WoodMizer LT15. I'm wanting to be able to saw enough lumber to pay for the mill and upgrade fairly quickly. Would this be a good mill for a starter? And will it be possible to sell enough green lumber off the mill to pay for itself? I really like working with lumber, my dad does fantastic woodwork in his spare time and I have helped him and I love it, I just want to be able to make the product we use and sell a good but of it to others.
And one last question, anyone else in central Missouri have a place they sell good amounts of lumber to? I'm open to all options, dimensional, railroad ties or even pallet cants.
Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, MikePatro. I have never seen an LT15 in operation and do not sell lumber so my comments will be limited. Since high production will not be your strong suit, I would look toward niche markets. There are many examples here in the Sawmills & Milling board as well as the Woodworking board.
I admire your willingness to work and wish you the best.
Mike welcome to the forum.
I personally have never owned an LT15 so I can't speak from experience.
I have been told by an LT15 owner that the mill needs to be on a level concrete pad or something similar (level and solid) that will not deflect under the weight of the log on the bed.
If you are looking at sawing table tops, or bar tops you might want to consider the LT15 WIDE.
Wishing you the best in your endeavors,
Gerald
I gotta agree with Gerald about the 15 wide , It will atleast give you more options for slabs etc . and give you broader niche market oppertunities I.E the guy that just wants a nice live edge slab to build a bar in his man cave etc. If you plan on keeping the mill in one spot the first thing you need to mill are a couple 4x4 or 4x6 's to lag the mill bed to . That will keep things nice ! Good luck young man !
Welcome MikePatro. I like your gumption...I also am not familiar with the LT15 but I do agree on the niche market. I would suggest that you also look into finding a kiln in your area (or build a small solar kiln) so that you can dry your "niche" lumber to sell. However if I read your OP correctly, you do have access to wood working equipment and sometimes a nice table or bench is easier to sell than green lumber.
If you get a 15 wide and they have the lt15 go that works with that, then you have some good options there. Maybe enough to hold onto it until you buy a lt70 :o
Welcome to the forum! Stick around, there's alot of good info and great people here.
Welcome Mikepatro,
Being mobile is really nice, (base LT15 is a stationary unit) it keeps a lot of the mess away from
home. Your Mum will appreciate it ;)
With that said, look at all your options from the suppliers
on the left side of the board in addition see what the trailer options cost.
You may also want to consider a used unit to start,
perhaps an LT28 if you're really set on a WM product
Best
DGDrls
W M is a good saw. I have a Woodland Mill I like it
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33477/DSCN0271.JPG)
dgdrls is right bought the mess
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33477/DSCN0264.JPG) I left the miss at the customer's place
good luck to you and welcome to the Forum
I have done exactly what you are trying to do with the LT15 and paid for it at least 25 times over.
I had a WM LT15 and it was a workhorse. Straight lumber, very little maintenance and easy to use. It can saw long and wide, and just kept on making sawdust.
YH
Welcome mikepatro,
I had an LT15 for almost 2yrs. It is a good little mill for the price.
You can really pump out some lumber if you have support equipment to move your logs around,and your lumber stacks.
If you can find a used one I think you will be better off,if you plan on upgrading in the future. I just sold mine for just under $5000. It had power feed and was in good working condition.
As far as the LT15 wide, it looks like a handy piece of equipment, also the LT15GO seems fine, BUT, if you are going to spend $10,000. (For a new one) you may find a used,larger mill, like a LT28, or maybe even something larger, that is portable.
I guess it depends on if you plan on being mobile or stationary, your production, expectations and what have you.
Just something to think about.
I will say again the lt15 is a good mill and it will cut lots of lumber for a long time.good luck with your endeavors, sorry for the long rant,
The only reason I sold my lt15 was I'm upgrading.
The LT15 from what I am told is decent machine. Probably can't go wrong. As with anything you purchase it is good to shop around a little and compare.
Great thing to see someone of your age "jumping to the pump" and trying to do something for himself. VERY good to see!!
Plan well and work hard!
Good luck and let us know how your adventure turns out.
I started with an LT15, built a house and several large sheds before going to an LT28. I got a good used saw for $4500 and sold it for the same price when I decided to move up. A good way to start I think. Good luck and use this forum to help you learn.
Quinton
MikePatro,welcome to the forum.
A LT15 will need some support equipment. A LT15 will need some BIG support equipment.
Thanks for all the replies, I'm considering the LT15 because I'm limited on cash to start up and the 15 looks like it's lower maintenance and it looks like a decent mill to run, expense wise. I would like to get an edger very soon so I don't have to use the mill and consume time edging when I could be milling more lumber. I've practically decided on the machine now I need to get the word around about me buying a mill and get a customer base set up.
Kind of off topic but has anyone ever heard of McClain Forest Products in West Plains, Missouri. They seem to buy lots of green hard wood lumber, or anything I've seen or heard implies that. If anyone has experience dealing with them do they buy from anyone who brings in lumber or just big mills? Just looking for all possible markets so I can make my dream of having a mill possible with enough sales to finance it.
Thank you everyone
Selling green lumber wholesale will be a rough go with a manual mill.
I would not think that the production level using an LT15 could anywhere justify buying an edger. Put that money that you do not have into a higher production sawmill if/when you need to increase productivity.
MikePatro,
I run an LT15 and have had it for four years. I worked it every day for several months and now have switched back to using it part-time as my primary job is keeping me real busy.
I don't finance anything if I can avoid it. I found a used LT15 used and paid cash for it four years ago. The mill has paid for itself several times over.
My mill came from the factory with two bed sections (new ones come with three now). With two bed sections, I could only cut 10' logs. My first upgrade was to add a bed section. Next I bought the LT15GO trailer and just finished the install this week. My final upgrade will be to add the factory power feed sometime this year. I looked at replacing my LT15 with an LT35, but the LT15 does everything I need it to do and with upgrades, I can keep using the LT15 for a long time and avoid having a monthly payment.
Quote from: Magicman on September 02, 2014, 07:36:35 AM
I would not think that the production level using an LT15 could anywhere justify buying an edger.
Agreed. If I'm cutting dimensional lumber, I cut a four-sided cant and then cut boards off the cant. It may take a little longer, but it keeps me from feeling like a need to buy an edger.
Quote from: WDH on September 02, 2014, 07:10:41 AM
Selling green lumber wholesale will be a rough go with a manual mill.
Agree with this also. Not saying it can't be done, but it aint gonna be easy.
On the other hand, if you're looking to upgrade your mill pretty quickly, your LT15 will bring a good price used and you can consider upgrading to a bigger mill if you find your business will support it. If there isn't enough business to support the upgrade, you'll still have a great sawmill in the LT15.
Mike
I dont have an LT15, rather I have the LT10 with 10 hp motor. I gave $2995 for it. My first sale of lumber off of it was over $2000 and that came all from free logs that were given to me. By the time I cut my 4th job for someone else and had about 15 hours of use on the mill, the LT10 was paid for and I had money in my pocket.
A friend of mine has an LT15 and has made his living with it for over the past decade. He swears by that machine and has turned out some very nice lumber and many tractor trailer worth with it.
I think some of the Wood Mizer production claims are very conservative. Recently a friend of mine and I cut over 500 board feet of ash in 3 hours on the LT10, some of which are shown below.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/LT10_Sawing.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/ash_board_pile.JPG)
I bought a used LT15 off Craigs List a year ago. It paid for itself in 62 days of sawing as time allowed (not my real job). I cut a lot of woods that weren't available locally: blackjack, spalted maple, spalted hackberry, hedge, and elm. A CL ad got the local woodworkers attention, and I was in business. So far it has been a lot of fun to use (very user friendly) and trouble free. Mine is stationary on a concrete slab next to the barn where the lumber is stacked and stickered.
I don't have a front end loader so all my logs are moved with 2 Logrite cant hooks and beam ramps.
You have a RESharp center very close to you (Mt. Vernon, Mo.) and they have treated me well.
Enjoy!
Thank you all for the replies! All the replies about a mill paying for itself in no time and many times over is making me very happy to hear. I have decided to go with the LT15 seeing as how everyones had no complaints with them. I hope to be milling lumber in a few weeks if i can get a mill ordered from the Mt Vernon location. Again, thank you for all the replies.
Still looking for places to sell higher volume of lumber if anyone can give some possible sources thatd be awesome! Will definitely try craigslist though!
I know its not a high production mill, but im 18 and still in highschool and if i come home afterr school and mill lumber till dark this fall and winter(or after dark with some lighting) i will be happy, because nothing makes me happier than earning a dollar off something i produced with my labor. And it will keep me out of trouble!!! ;D So thank you all.
You will do just fine. I know of at least 4 LT15's that went in this year with the owners sawing RR ties and flooring lumber part time. Picking logs the size that can be turned handily with a cant hook; they turn out 200-300' an hour. I have seen hydraulic mills average less. Kind of reminds me of axe vs wood-splitter. A young man wanting to work can split a pick-up load of straight grained wood faster than the run of the mill hydraulic splitter.
Great to see someone young and ambitious getting into the business. smiley_clapping
I think getting a mill is a great idea, I just want to point out some questions that anyone who is looking at getting a mill should ask them self (When I got my mill running I was totally unprepared when it came to tools that are required to move logs.)
Do you have/have access to logs?
Do you have a way to get the logs to your mill?
Are you also budgeting for the support tools that go with a mill? At the very least I would say you need a cant hook, a large pry bar (can be made for cheap out of a rear axle of a car) a come-a-long jack or winch, a chain or cable and a chainsaw. All of the tools can be gotten second hand for fairly low cost. You will also need to get a box or two of blades to start off.
Do you have a place to store/ dry the lumber you cut?
What are you going to do with the waste from the mill.(It produces way more slabs, sawdust, bark, and scrap that I had ever imagined, I do it as a hobby so don't work to hard but two or three days of cutting on the mill requires at least a half a day of clean up to deal with all the slabs)
How do you plan to get logs? Buying them? Cutting them? Getting them free from utility companies? Sawing the customers? In trade for sawing?
Do you have a way to deliver the lumber or are you planing for your customers to pick it up?
I am not asking you these questions because I expect you to respond to them, it is more just to point out things you may need to think about. (When I built my mill I didn't give it much of a though beyond,"it would be fun to have a mill" before I was finished building it. I didn't give any of the logistics of it much thought until I had it built and running and had cut up the three logs I had access to)
I would also suggest that it may be easier to make money with a completely manual mill by specializing in "high value added" lumber/cuts or something that no one in your area is doing so you have less competition rather than trying to compete with larger mills on common lumber.
Mike
You remind me of another young Forest Forum member named Ty who lives in Indiana that was a bit younger than you when he got his LT-10 and began sawing wood. You might want to talk to him on the forum and see what tips he may have for you. As I recall he was cutting and selling a fair amount of wood.
Fred
Ty hasn't been on since April. Let's see if we can wake him up @tyb525 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7472) :)
Quote from: Dave Shepard on September 03, 2014, 06:05:24 PM
Ty hasn't been on since April. Let's see if we can wake him up @tyb525 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7472) :)
A very knowledgable young man! ;)
Joe Hillman- I have put some thought into those questions and the only answers im lacking is where to sell lumber and if im producing a fair amount of it where to get enough logs. I have a few places i can cut some but i also have a buddy who owns a logging company and is having a hard time finding a mill to buy his logs, so hopefully me and him can negotiate something out over that. but for the most part finding somewhere to sell good amounts of lumber is stumping me(no pun intended). craigslist and spreading word around town is the only ways i have figured out for now. Ive talked to some good family friends and they say if i buy a mill i will be the only one in town running one and the only one in the county that will do custom.
Only have 3 other good size mills in the whole county so not worried about it since they dont serve small customers.
Again thank you all for the replies!!! keep em coming!
I use a LT15 to cut lumber exclusively for my furniture work. This mill does everything I need it do as far as cut quality. However, the way I see it, selling green lumber off of my machine (10hp3ph) wholesale is a limited opportunity. You will definitely have profit potential, but when you factor in all processes from staging logs, to cleanup, to storage, to sales, it is a lot of work. Throw in some"ok" logs, and your profit will go way down. But when I was 18 I would of been stoked to make 20$ an hour, and you should definitely be able to produce that, if selling retail with good logs you could probally crush that.
If there are only 3 big mills in your county, then you may have an opportunity to do some custom sawing, although I would be surprised if there wasn't another bandmill or two hiding out there. One advantage of custom sawing is that you show up, saw, get paid, leave the mess, and move on. Or Saw'em and Leave'em, as Magicman says. :D You may find that you may rely on a variety of things to keep you busy. Maybe have a few logs on hand to make some tomato/grade stakes. Work on those when you don't have anything else to do. If you have a good species for fence posts like locust or cedar, you could make those and have some on hand. It might take some time for word to get around, but you may be a lot busier than you think just keeping your community in whatever odd bits of lumber they can't get anywhere else.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on September 03, 2014, 06:05:24 PM
Ty hasn't been on since April. Let's see if we can wake him up @tyb525 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7472) :)
Ya got me! I admit I've let life keep me away from the Forum! I'll have to catch up tonight as I am using my phone right right now.
Glad to see it woke you up, Ty. We've missed you.
I like the idea of a used saw. Sell it for what you gave for it when you upgrade. The drawback is finding a used mill. You will have to keep your name out there. Keep and ad on CL and I think there is that weekly shopper (yellow paper) you could put an ad in also. I would lean toward specialty sawing. 2" slabs and such. 6x6 post. Check the local lumber yard and see if they will carry some of your lumber. I was in LOA last weekend. I am glad to see a young man interested in this business.If I can be of any help let me know.
Quote from: Busy Beaver Lumber on September 02, 2014, 04:09:32 PM
Mike
I dont have an LT15, rather I have the LT10 with 10 hp motor. I gave $2995 for it. My first sale of lumber off of it was over $2000 and that came all from free logs that were given to me. By the time I cut my 4th job for someone else and had about 15 hours of use on the mill, the LT10 was paid for and I had money in my pocket.
A friend of mine has an LT15 and has made his living with it for over the past decade. He swears by that machine and has turned out some very nice lumber and many tractor trailer worth with it.
I think some of the Wood Mizer production claims are very conservative. Recently a friend of mine and I cut over 500 board feet of ash in 3 hours on the LT10, some of which are shown below.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/LT10_Sawing.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/ash_board_pile.JPG)
What he said Mike. I use an lt10 with a few minor home modifications to it and paid for it rather quickly cutting for hobbyists and working at it pretty minimal. I do have a tractor with FEL to handle heavy logs. My advice is go for it!
With a manual mill I'd aim for the higher value stuff, rather than the volume market. If you have access to the wood working equipment it may work better to actually take things through to finished items. For example can you get some cedar logs? Take a couple of low value logs, saw them, let them dry and make them into coffee tables, chests, Adirondack chairs, picnic tables etc.
Then it's only a couple of logs to source, and not a whole truck load. 1/2 a day of sawing, even on a manual mill, and the rest of the week woodworking. End of the week you have processed $50 of logs, and made maybe $1000 of products to sell? Your overheads and expenses are reasonable, no big mill payments to make etc. In that business model, a larger mill is not really an advantage. All it means is that you spend 2 hours milling per week, instead of 4. Rest of the time the big mill is sitting there tying up your capital.
Contacts with a local logger? You might be able to buy some of the oddball logs. Different species, and even logs that are commercially rejects, but can be sawn into the legendary $300 slabs ;) Ugly cedars, walnut crotches etc
Or,
Build a solar kiln?
Buy a heavy duty planer?
Now you can sell kiln dried hardwoods to locals at a decent retail price.
Those sorts of things anyway. Trying to compete with a larger more efficient mills on volume isn't going to work. Finding a niche that they don't cover? That's where the smaller mills, with the lower capital costs can work.
LT15? Good little mills. Being all manual means they are simple to maintain, and should just keep on sawing with basic maintenance. Wood-Mizer means it will have good resale and parts backup, so it's a good choice there.
Ian
I just recently purchased an LT15go. I'm using it for myself, at least initially, not for selling lumber. I'm cutting and trimming timbers for timberframing, and cutting boards for my own woodworking. The support equipment comment is a good one, for any mill. A rough terrain forklift is very useful, especially for the LT15's. It's hard manual loading or manual winch loading if you don't have a forklift.
Someone made the good point of specializing. With the loading and unloading being a little more difficult, it's better to make specialty product than trying for quantity.
Another reason I bought the LT15go is that it is a 2 rail mill, and I wanted to have the MP100 planer for the mill. You need a 2 rail mill for the MP100. WoodMizer is working on adapting the MP100 to fit on the LT15wide.
Welcome to the forum.
One of the areas I would look into for selling lumber is with some of the contractors that are building the upscale houses around the lake. I bet they would like to have a supplier of nice slabs for building bar/counter tops for the rich folks that like spending the weekend at the lake. You can also put some signs, bus. cards, or flyers up at the local feed and hardware stores. Might also put some cards a the bait and tackle stores that have to be around that lake. Look into building rustic benches for sitting around the camp fire. ;)
Best of luck to you.