Right off the bat let me tell ya......what I am about to post is what I was told.
So if you analyzers want to dispute something, tell it to a goat.....I'm just telling ya what I was told and that's all I know.
I have another LT40HD, twin to mine, 4 miles down the road. We sorta help each other when in need.
He had a customer bring a log. A log from the fastest growing tree in the world. The name is EMPRESS or PRINCESS TREE.....scientific name, PAULOWNIA TOMENTOSA.
Well I got a call that the customer wanted it QS.....my buddy didn't know how. So I went over this afternoon to QS this log. The customer was there also. Short story long.....I told them the log was to small to QS....14" dia. Big end....2 piths off center on 1 end.
I ended up just sawing the log 1-1/4" thick boards but because of the shape of the rings....he got quite a few QS boards.
I didn't get a pick of the grain but there were no flecks and rays......the grain resembled the grain of Black Walnut when you QS it......pencil striping.
This tree was brought from China and planted 20 years ago, a very slow growing tree. The story goes that one of these trees are planted after a Chinese wedding. ( I'm just telling ya what I was told, so I don't wanna hear it! no_no
I used a 4° blade and it sawed like butter.
Have any of you guys ever even heard of this tree or sawed it?
On another note about another thread....my buddy took his HP blade guides off his mill. First time I had ever sawn a WM without the blade guides but it did fine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_4304.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_4307.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_4308.JPG)
No blade guides
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_4305.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/IMG_4306.JPG)
Lots of 'em around here until about 20 years ago; there was a tremendous overseas (Japan??) market for 'em. Many were sold and what weren't were stolen; 'bout as 'hot' as stolen copper is now..............
do you saw the log into an octagon, to minimize waste, or is there another reason. my LT 15 is all manual so this would be alot of work for me i can see where it wouldnt to be with the hydraulic units
Quote from: willmyers0169 on October 16, 2014, 09:37:51 PM
do you saw the log into an octagon, to minimize waste, or is there another reason. my LT 15 is all manual so this would be alot of work for me i can see where it wouldnt to be with the hydraulic units
I saw the "stop sign" because as you saw each quarter, if give you a flat side to lay on the bed and a flat side to squeeze against the logs stops. try to keep your angles at a 45°.
Empress splendor is what I was thinking about growing at one time. Suppose to mature in 7-8 years. Drought and fire resistant. Leaves are huge.
I read about that tree in Farm Show . It looked like a good fast growing tree . I was interested ,but not enough to buy. Afew years later a dis gruntaled purchaser penned a letter to Farm Show about his Worst Buy.
I too was interested in planting some, the fast shade was attractive but really more for the novelty of it I guess, I read the same Worst Buys review and decided against it. Seems like the trees do grow like mad but the transplanting success is a bit of an issue. Good to actually see one that has been sawn though. Thanks for the post.
I'm glad I got some stories from you guys about this tree. I had NEVER heard of it at all. :)
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on October 16, 2014, 09:45:16 PM
I saw the "stop sign" because as you saw each quarter, if give you a flat side to lay on the bed and a flat side to squeeze against the logs stops. try to keep your angles at a 45°.
I have a tough enough time sawing a log
square with my little manual, let alone 8 turns.
Was the 4° needed or was it what you had available?
That off-centered pith looks like some hard leaning spruce I sawed that grew next to a septic drain field.
BIG growth rings.
Quote from: WmFritz on October 16, 2014, 11:22:05 PM
Was the 4° needed or was it what you had available?
Actually Bill, when he called me, I wanted to get this thing sawed in time to go get in the Deer stand. :D
Since I had NEVER heard of the tree and didn't know what to expect, I asked him kindly to go ahead and load the log on the mill and put a 4° blade on. The way it sawed, I believe a 10° would have down the job. Using the 4°, it felt like I was sawing Poplar with a 10°. :) It felt good just to get another species on my resume. ;D
I've been told it's a fairly soft wood and easy to work with hand tools. Exceptionally stable wood. Used in Japan for traditional hand made boxes, etc. That said, I don't believe I've ever even seen one of the trees, never mind sawn one.
Couldn't resist replying...DRBuck and I have one of these trees in our front yard....speaking from a purely non-knowledgeable tree person.....I hate this tree...it is ugly and looks like a huge weed most of the time. Wish DRBuck would cut it down and use it for firewood. It is however very fast growing and does provide a fair amount of shade.
Pawlonia is another quick rich scheme that went bad. It is prized in Japan, but the growth habit is different there, and no market for the wood developed in the US. Does not even make decent firewood.
I just heard about this tree last Saturday when I was sawing for another FF member. We felt that if it was that fast growing that the lumber would not have much value
Here is a article from the New Zealand Farm Forestry Association.
http://www.nzffa.org.nz/farm-forestry-model/resource-centre/tree-grower-articles/tree-grower-november-2007/whatever-happened-to-paulownia/ (http://www.nzffa.org.nz/farm-forestry-model/resource-centre/tree-grower-articles/tree-grower-november-2007/whatever-happened-to-paulownia/)
Quote from: Kitty on October 17, 2014, 07:40:17 AM
Couldn't resist replying...DRBuck and I have one of these trees in our front yard....speaking from a purely non-knowledgeable tree person.....I hate this tree...it is ugly and looks like a huge weed most of the time. Wish DRBuck would cut it down and use it for firewood. It is however very fast growing and does provide a fair amount of shade.
As Kitty said, we have one of these trees. Started out with 2, but took one of them out the first year with the lawn tractor. ::) They came from a mail order place in a couple of zip-lock bags. They looked like wet noodles about 3inches long. The one that survived grew to about 4 feet tall and 1 1/2" diameter the first year. The leaves were huge. Looked like elephant ears. When the first frost hit, they turned black the first day and fell off. I thought the whole thing died so I cut it off in the spring. But, it started growing again. Currently it is about 35 feet tall and 15 inches in diameter. It's somewhere around 12 years old. I'll dig out some pictures tonight to see if I can find the ones when it was first planed so I can confirm the age. I'll also get a photo of it now and post it. Each year for the first 5 years the leaves keep getting smaller. Then beginning at the 6th year the tree flowers purple "bell" type flowers early spring before the leaves come out. The leaves are still somewhat large but not what they were in the beginning. Each year I need to prune off lots of branches. They grow out at all sorts of angles. The first 7 or so years I kept cutting off the lower limbs so we could eventually walk around under it. At the end of each season the tree starts shedding a mass of seed pods. The smallest amount of frost kills the leaves and sends it into winter hibernation.
I don't care what she says! :o The tree makes lots of shade in front of the house where we needed it. ;)
although I have never worked with it, I do know some decoy carvers who have worked with this material
and they all prefer it over cedar and pine.
it is supposed to carve easy, light and stable.
In the spring as you drive down the interstates in WV and TN look for the purple flowers. Unbelievable how many P trees there are.
I have seen a few guys nix the blade guides even on a huge production WM . I always wondered if they really did anything besides catch sawdust........ Oh neet saw job I like that kind of stuff !
Quote from: Cedarman on October 17, 2014, 12:39:53 PM
In the spring as you drive down the interstates in WV and TN look for the purple flowers. Unbelievable how many P trees there are.
I read somewhere a few years ago it was considered an invasive species. I know around this part of Virginia I've seen them growing in the wild on more than a couple of occasions.
The wood is used commercially for boat building / surfboards / kite boards etc as it has all the desirable characteristic for that. Light weight, straight grain, stable, easy to machine. It should work great for things like a strip canoe that you might otherwise make from cedar.
But it's a specialised market. Surfing isn't big everyone like it is here.
The tree got a bad name because of the Get Rich Quick scheme that promoted it, That fell over when the folks that actually where able to grow them into decent logs found the fast grown plantation wood wasn't what the Japanese market wanted, and no one had worked out any alternative market for it. NZ actually imports Paulownia timber now because the local tree supply can't keep up.
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on October 16, 2014, 11:40:37 PM
Quote from: WmFritz on October 16, 2014, 11:22:05 PM
Was the 4° needed or was it what you had available?
Actually Bill, when he called me, I wanted to get this thing sawed in time to go get in the Deer stand. :D
Since I had NEVER heard of the tree and didn't know what to expect, I asked him kindly to go ahead and load the log on the mill and put a 4° blade on. The way it sawed, I believe a 10° would have down the job. Using the 4°, it felt like I was sawing Poplar with a 10°. :) It felt good just to get another species on my resume. ;D
I'd ask you to update or start a post on my "Trees I've sawn" thread, but I can never seem to find it in a search. ::)
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50361.msg727619.html#msg727619
I knew it was Paulownia when I saw your title.
Here is the Tree in 2002, the year I planted it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11043/Tree-1.JPG)
Here it is today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11043/Tree~0.jpg)
Good post Dr Buck.
I have a small log at the mill now that was given me. A buddy of mine makes and flyes the small planes and wants me to saw it up for him to build some of his scale planes with.... It is very light for its size. Banjo
I work at a wood shavings mill and have often wondered how this tree would do there. Since we can take logs down to 6" in diameter, you could get a crop pretty quick. Usually anything soft like aspen, poplar, white pine makes great shavings, except for basswood because it's too stringy. Anyone have any insight on this?
It's 4 or 5 years old, 9"dbh and crooked as a dog's hind leg. To the left of the sprout there's a 44" shovel. Poston, bring a bucket and the sprout is yours. I'll take pictures whilst you dig it out. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21038/052.JPG)
My farm is full of these darn trees. They grow like weeds, and take over an idle field like wildfire. If you feel the need to saw one, just come to this part of Virginia, the buggers are everywhere. I wish I could sell the lumber, I'd be worth a small fortune in no time..... :-\
Ianab,
Is there a better way to grow them into logs? Are a lot of the ones grown out in the open crooked? Just wondering how they would do in a silvopasture setup, I am always looking for ways to get shade into the pastures. If I remember correctly they will re-grow from the stump pretty quickly.
One of the growing techniques was to let the sapling grow for a couple of years, then cut it off near ground level. It would then sprout again from the stump, and because you now have an established root system the new shoot would grow 10-16ft in the next year, without branching or having the growing tip knocked out by frost. What it does after that doesn't matter so much, you have your straight butt log.
Planting them a bit denser and then taking out the extras would also encourage that initial straight growth. You can see in Dr Buck's picture how the tree is open grown, not very straight, and heavily branched and spreading.
QuoteMy farm is full of these darn trees. They grow like weeds, and take over an idle field like wildfire. If you feel the need to saw one, just come to this part of Virginia, the buggers are everywhere. I wish I could sell the lumber, I'd be worth a small fortune in no time
It's all about marketing. ;) Bundle up 6 decent planks, call it a wooden surfboard kit, and charge $300 for it.
http://www.woodsurfboardsupply.com/wood.html (http://www.woodsurfboardsupply.com/wood.html)
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on October 16, 2014, 11:14:29 PM
I'm glad I got some stories from you guys about this tree. I had NEVER heard of it at all. :)
Oh, but there is quite a few stories and threads on this forum about this 'gold mine'. :D Let us know when someone makes their first $ million. ;D
SwampDonkey, if they start with 5 million, it shouldn't take them long to get it down to 1. ;)
Pauwlonia or Royal Empress has definitely been declared an invasive in some states. Might check with your local county or state forestry office before you get accused of spreading a weed. I think that like Ianab said, with proper cultivation and the right soil/climate, it could be possible to have a resource for niche markets.
I've got hundreds of them that are growing straight as an arrow, and are probably 25+ feet high. They are growing along the road (next to my fence line) and are very thick with little room between them. I suppose they are competing for light, that's why they grow so tall and straight. They are only about 4+ inches in diameter, but the ones that are 12- 16 inches in diameter are less crowded, and of course not as straight. I wouldn't plant them, until I knew there was a market for them. They are a nuisance for sure, and grow anywhere. Especially where you don't want them.... :-\
Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 18, 2014, 10:10:10 AM
SwampDonkey, if they start with 5 million, it shouldn't take them long to get it down to 1. ;)
Ah-Yup that's farming for you.
Gerald
I wouldn't mess with them :).
Quote from: WDH on October 18, 2014, 09:27:50 PM
I wouldn't mess with them :).
I did bring home a cookie from sawing that log.....don't know what I'll use it for though. ::)
"For one cookie today, I will give you two on Tuesday".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDNJ6xBaZ92uA&v=xfF_2FjsFDE
Quote from: WDH on October 18, 2014, 09:54:06 PM
"For one cookie today, I will give you two on Tuesday".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDNJ6xBaZ92uA&v=xfF_2FjsFDE
That video, which I remember Whimpy......looks like me eating them burgers you grill using your secret smoking technics with the scraps you get off your shop floor. :D :D :D
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on October 18, 2014, 09:48:42 PM
Quote from: WDH on October 18, 2014, 09:27:50 PM
I wouldn't mess with them :).
I did bring home a cookie from sawing that log.....don't know what I'll use it for though. ::)
You could use it as a saucer for your water dish. That way it's not directly on the ground. :D
:D
It is beautiful grained wood, especially when "just sawed".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25201/Paulownia.jpg)
Years ago a guy from my town was arrested for stealing Pawlonians from local parks and peoples yards. He was selling them for a small fortune back then, even the branches. Now they are pretty much worthless.
We have some on our farm that I'm considering cutting down. They are considered nuisance trees .
At a forum/conference I attended recently, the NC state foresters called these trees a non-native invasive species, undesirable, and they advised us to destroy them as weeds. I had one growing as a volunteer in my yard, and it took several cuttings to kill it. You can see many growing along the I-40 interstate highway around Asheville, NC as it winds its way through the national forest there, and it is clearly spreading. Identification is easy - very big leaves, dramatic purple flowers in the spring, and large seed pods. Like many non-native invasive species (think kudzu), it is hard to see how it could be eliminated now.
David L.