The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: kelLOGg on December 30, 2014, 07:19:37 AM

Title: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: kelLOGg on December 30, 2014, 07:19:37 AM
 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13036/P1010510.JPG)

They are from a 34" white oak that fell in 2002. I cut three cookies off which have been in a barn/shop for more than 10 years. The one shown was sanded and finished but the other two are not. I plan on sanding them, installing legs and a glass top and giving them as gifts. They would make interesting matching end tables and will be begging to be put inside. Will they crack more? They are 3" thick and the cracks seen have remained unchanged ever since the were stored in the barn at least 10 years ago.
Bob
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 30, 2014, 07:31:45 AM
It is likely that the EMC in the barn is around 11-12% EMC.  In most homes, this time of year, the EMC is 6% EMC (30% RH).  When oak goes from 11% MC to 6% MC, that is about 1-1/2% shrinkage.  So, I do not see how these two pieces can remain stable when moved inside...rather, they will shrink and the cracks will open. 
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: kelLOGg on December 30, 2014, 08:38:23 AM
That's the answer I was expecting :'( but I was hopng I was wrong.
Bob
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: Texas Ranger on December 30, 2014, 09:01:04 AM
A solution I have used in the past was to open one straight line crack  from pith to bark, epoxy it, and finish.  Best to wait for full dry before epoxy.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: beenthere on December 30, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
Let them crack. The cracks will just add to the conversations generated from the uniqueness of the cookie.
But I'd suggest placing the cookie on a support system that would remove the cookie from being a structural part of a coffee or end table.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: kelLOGg on December 30, 2014, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: beenthere on December 30, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
But I'd suggest placing the cookie on a support system that would remove the cookie from being a structural part of a coffee or end table.

I never thought of that! That puts the project on the to-do list. Thanks, beenthere. Now, I gotta come up with the time. Can you solve that problem, too? ;D

Bob
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: beenthere on December 30, 2014, 05:55:57 PM
Sure, just get rid of any honey-do list that may be lurking in the shadows. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: addysdaddy on January 10, 2015, 02:39:17 PM
You were talking about having a glass top on your cookie table... Why not mount it between 2 glass "tops" and then it can dry crack split any way it wants without affecting the table integrity
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: Ianab on January 10, 2015, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: addysdaddy on January 10, 2015, 02:39:17 PM
You were talking about having a glass top on your cookie table... Why not mount it between 2 glass "tops" and then it can dry crack split any way it wants without affecting the table integrity

You could make a "table top" from plywood cut to the same shape and make thaa the structural top. Then just tack the cookie on top. Again if it cracks a bit more, no big deal.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: Jeff on January 10, 2015, 04:53:28 PM
I'm thinking they may not crack any worse if they all are configured like that one. They will change, but I suspect no new cracks will open up. Why?  Because there is a natural relief joint in it at about 6:00. It can expand and contract in its outer circumference there. The interior cracks can have movement within the existing crack because the circumference has a relief point.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: beenthere on January 10, 2015, 05:14:05 PM
X2 what Jeff said.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: JHEPP08 on April 27, 2015, 02:08:51 AM
I've made much smaller cookies. But I stuck them in. Bucket of denatured alcohol for 24-48 hours. Let drip dry (out of light) that took it from 35% + to 14. Couple days later under tent it was 8. They were 2.5" thick. I then put a dealer which acted as a glue then sanded an lacquered them they turned out really cool.
Ps as soon as you cut them you got to soak them .


Sorry for the book ha
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on April 27, 2015, 09:07:51 AM
Indeed, drying in alcohol is an old, established technique for drying wood and the lack of shrinkage in the process is noteworthy.  Be careful of the fire hazard.  Commercial operations cannot afford this technique, as the loss of alcohol is expensive.  A few have tried to recapture the alcohol, but that is too expensive as well.  So, the process remains non-commercial.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: JHEPP08 on April 27, 2015, 10:10:19 AM
Yea it was a pain I did it for like 20 cookies . I just put some screen over the bucket an let it drip dry back in. I was surprised how well it worked .
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: Jeff on April 27, 2015, 11:56:58 AM
I would think, by its nature, more went up than dripped back in due to the room temperature evaporation rate of alcohol.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: JHEPP08 on April 27, 2015, 09:43:09 PM
Yea, surprisingly I did about 3-4 at a time an just used 1 gal an I dumped it back into the can afterwards an I bet it was 85% full after doing 20 at least. Figured I'd go through a lot.. It was $12 a gallon vs that stuff that's $60 I can use a few gallons lol
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: gfadvm on April 27, 2015, 10:55:32 PM
Those cookies have been through ten years of dry winter/wet summer cycles and still have the bark on and have not cracked since put in storage. I would probably sand and finish all surfaces (including down in those cracks) with a clear coat (poly, Spar Urethane, etc). I don't have a lot of faith in cookies not to crack but yours seem to have defied the odds so far.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on April 27, 2015, 11:07:12 PM
When soaking in alcohol, the alcohol replaces the water.  So, the solution becomes watered down after each use.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: cousin jw on April 28, 2015, 10:54:38 AM
When you soak a cookie in alcohol do you need to place stickers between the bottom of the cookie and the bottom of your container? Also, if you try to do multiple cookies at once do they need to be stickered or can they be flat stacked in the alcohol? Is there a greater chance of failure if you were to cut your cookies out of a large limb as opposed to cookies from the trunk of the tree? Thanks in advance for any help.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: Jeff on April 28, 2015, 11:23:05 AM
There is a great chance of failure period, when trying to dry cookies. I would think the large limb to be even greater for the same reasons they won't make lumber.
Title: Re: Will this cookie crack more if I bring it inside
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on April 30, 2015, 08:35:34 AM
The container should be plastic or stainless.  Spacing will be automatic as the surface is rough.

Of course, it is assumed that the wood is porous enough to allow the alcohol to penetrate easily.

More details...with small spacing and without stirring the solution, the small amount of alcohol will be quickly absorbed, replacing the water and the process will stop before you have total alcohol absorption (you want total) and the treating solution will be mostly water.  Basically, for each quart of alcohol absorbed, one quart of water will leave the wood.  A twenty pound piece of wood has about 8 pounds or one gallon of water.  So, if you put the wood in  one gallon of 180 proof alcohol, the concentration will drop to 90 proof when half done and will begin to slow way down as the concentration drops further.  So, you need lots of excess alcohol initially.  So, if you had five gallons initially, you would have one gallon  of alcohol move into the wood and one gallon of water leave, so the solution would be 140 proof at the end.  Are you going to save this flammable liquid or just discard the extra four gallons?  You could add a fresh gallon of alcohol, but unless you remove the water, you will still not achieve a fresh solution of 180 proof.  If you treated another piece with the weaker solution, at the end the solution would be even weaker.  Weaker means less effective.  So, you can see one reason why alcohol is not popular. ?.for treating wood, that is.  Further, after treating the wood now has one gallon of alcohol in it.  This will evaporate quickly.  If it evaporates into the air, it will be gone.  So, should we try and recapture it?  Would it be an air pollutant?  Have you ever seen all the dead trees around a distillery?  So, it looks like we need lots of extra alcohol, have a fire hazard and may have pollution.  All this makes the process a novelty and not a reasonable drying approach.