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General Forestry => Timber Framing/Log construction => Topic started by: boatman on December 31, 2014, 08:23:18 PM

Title: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on December 31, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
I bought a farm with a barn that is about 130 years old.  It was last used for horses so the bottom is divided up into cinderblock stalls,  so the floor is well supported. The metal roof leaked enough that one of the 10x10x60 foot top plates I mostly hollow and the other is bad at both ends. I expect to find many of the posts rotten on top as a result.

This barn will be my project for the year. So fari have filled a dumpster with old barn junk and am just starting to clearthe floor of hay.

Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on December 31, 2014, 08:31:50 PM
 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_20141007_153839.jpg) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_20141007_153806.jpg)
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on December 31, 2014, 08:35:36 PM
 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_20141229_093821.jpg) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_20140717_105034.jpg)
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on December 31, 2014, 08:44:30 PM
I picked up a few 10x10's today. One is for to replace a post that was removed at some point. The others for joists, the original joists are 36 feet long but a few were eaten away by bored horses and I will scarf the last third of those. There have a block wall under them now for support. 


I plan on bladed scarfs for the post tops and I don't recall the name of the scarf type for the plates. Those were 60 foot long originally. I expect I will use three 24 footers when I replace them.  If I can't salvage any of it. 

I have helped build a couple of barns as an unskilled laborer and I am not a carpenter. This will be quite a project. After I replace the missing post I will start with the floor and go up from there. I expect I will be buying some scaffolding soon.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: BCsaw on December 31, 2014, 11:25:27 PM
Great old barn! Wish I had one. Good luck with the project and keep us up to date with pics.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: Jim1611 on January 01, 2015, 09:38:37 AM
That's going to be quite an undertaking. Good to see the barn being salvaged as opposed to being destroyed. Just imagine all the work that went into it!
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on January 01, 2015, 11:12:41 AM
A retired professional barn builder looked at it and said it was built very well. He mentioned he had never seen one constructed in this manner. Today I am having dinner with a couple of timber frame builder and I will be getting as much advice as possible.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: kwendt on January 02, 2015, 02:15:09 PM
Awesome project.... And a thread I'll keep following. Beautiful barn...
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: kgb12158 on January 05, 2015, 08:11:45 PM
Any of these barns is worth restoring.  They are a lot of work.  The one I finished 2 years ago took 3 years.  Replacing 6 of 12 posts and repairing the bottom of 4 more.  The plates needed ends only.  There were no sill timbers or floor joist left.  Really a big job for my first try but SOOO rewarding. 
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on January 06, 2015, 07:02:27 AM
Kgb,

Did you use a chain mortiser or drill and chisel? I am considering buying a big angle drill for this project.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on January 06, 2015, 07:04:40 AM
It looks like it may be dove tailed joints. Judging by the wedges. That will make it interesting.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: kgb12158 on January 06, 2015, 02:06:18 PM
Boatman

I used  a Millersfalls and 2" chisel.  At the end of the day I was tired but no lead cord, hearing protection or chances of cutting my fingers off. 
I did use the chain saw for larger timber cut offs. 
I always use a leather headed Garland #3 hammer for chisel work.  Very little impact on my 61 year old elbows.   
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: kwendt on January 06, 2015, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: kgb12158 on January 06, 2015, 02:06:18 PM
I used  a Millersfalls and 2" chisel.  At the end of the day I was tired but no lead cord, hearing protection or chances of cutting my fingers off.  I always use a leather headed Garland #3 hammer for chisel work.  Very little impact on my 61 year old elbows.

Oh wow... where did you find the Garland #3? Pieh Tool?
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: Brian_Weekley on January 06, 2015, 04:15:58 PM
Quote from: kwendt on January 06, 2015, 03:00:48 PM

Oh wow... where did you find the Garland #3? Pieh Tool?

Looks like you are in Maine.  You know they are made by Garland in Saco, Maine, right?  Garland also sells them directly on Amazon and you can always find used ones on eBay.

I just got one for X-mas!
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: Dave Shepard on January 06, 2015, 04:19:03 PM
I bought a new #3 and some repair parts online in 2013. I think I got them from Hammersource, or something like that. Like Brian said, they are available online all over the place. I like the #3 Garland. I busted up two of them and wore out a third on a white oak project in 2013, but normally they last a very long time.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: kgb12158 on January 07, 2015, 09:18:07 AM
I've had luck over the years looking for tools in Antiques shops and tool sales.  The Martin Donnelly auction held twice a year in Nashua NH is always good for a couple.  The next auction is April 17th and 18th.  I seldom buy at the auction.  I do all my buying outside in the parking lot.  There can be as many as 40-50 vendors.  The Mom and Pop sellers are always the best.  The guys making a living are less willing to bargain.   I often find the #3s for ~$10-15 used.  New they run ~$50-60.   The replacement leathers can be $20 a pair but they last a long time as Dave said.   Plus saving the wear and tear on the body is worth it. 
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on January 07, 2015, 09:30:42 AM
Well. I'm not starting business doing this so I will keep the tools basic

I have an auger, a brace, 1-1/14 inch chisel, a few handsaws, and a chainsaw.

I am considering a 3" slick. A 2" chisel, and big drill. Maybe the makita 4310.

Might also get a corner chisel

Any other recommendations.

I have. Basic layout tools.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: kgb12158 on January 08, 2015, 07:29:19 AM
Boatman
My 2 cents. 
I would also recommend a 1 1/2" chisel depending on the frame size you are repairing. An old barn is likely a 2" frame.  At the risk of belaboring the obvious a 2" frame represents 2" mortises and tenons that are 2" from the timber reference face.  The slick is a great tool that I don't use a lot.  I use it in wide faces that need to be cleaned up like scarfs and wide tenons.  A good 2" chisel or plane usually meets the need. 
Good luck send progress pictures.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: grweldon on January 08, 2015, 09:24:08 AM
That old barn is a work of art!  Seems to be very intricate in it's design.  Wouldn't you have loved to know the people who designed and built it and watched it take shape?  I wonder how long it took.  I wonder if any type of steam-driven cranes or lifts were used.  Probably not.  I see structures like that barn and I am in awe...
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: boatman on January 14, 2015, 11:57:27 AM
 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_2398_28129.jpg) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_20150114_111800.jpg) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_20150114_111713.jpg) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/IMG_2399_28129.jpg) 

I am slowly making progress on the barn. Its been cold, but that can be good for indoor barn work. Almost done with the cleaning thought I do admit I pushed a lot of old hay into the stalls below to deal with later.

Off to the sawmill today to put in the order for wood. I will build a couple of mortise and tenoned sawhorses as practice pieces before I start on the big wood.
Title: Progress
Post by: boatman on February 13, 2018, 07:05:40 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/30EB57EB-7EB9-40AC-B1D2-7E96833A9099.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518566534)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/077FB67A-A1D4-4C12-8B9E-F362442C9555.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518566531)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/5CC070A5-FAAE-4DF9-859C-BF320F7DFC80.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518566533)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/9E7FA23E-EEBB-4932-BA29-CA07B0129356.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518566532)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/FC37FDB7-32D6-4A17-84C9-A93830DCA915.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518566530)
 
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: boatman on February 13, 2018, 07:11:00 PM
 it's been a process over a few years.  More will be done this week. 

1880 barn in Northern Michigan.  Mostly original siding, hemlock.  Well built.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/D8160292-C21F-4C82-8CFC-E9B7F081C752.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518567004)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/234C01E7-4F72-4860-9FE3-A49179C52C53.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518567003)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/C3A4D2C9-24A6-45E5-BC95-ADF442CEDA6F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518567002)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/D016CC54-DDB6-43EF-9DA6-38D8687CD49A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518566993)
 
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: jayhdjr on February 13, 2018, 07:13:15 PM
I see way to many old barns, just slowly falling down. Love seeing one saved !
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: boatman on February 13, 2018, 07:18:14 PM
Here is what some of the beams looked like.  From the ground they looked fine. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20490/AEC7C1F2-A41C-4394-A157-08CC5FE69F38.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518567469)
 
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: flyingparks on February 13, 2018, 10:42:53 PM
Man that does not look easy. Sure is rewarding I bet
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: samandothers on February 14, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
Wow!  Great looking job.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: Brad_bb on February 14, 2018, 08:26:24 PM
Very nice!  In Illinois and indiana so many are left go to the elements and time.  In Ohio and Pennsylvania it seems like they take pride in and take care of their old barns.  Glad to see you caring for that Michigan barn!
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: DPatton on February 14, 2018, 09:29:10 PM
Quote from: Brad_bb on February 14, 2018, 08:26:24 PM
Very nice!  In Illinois and indiana so many are left go to the elements and time.


Brad,

I see the same thing daily here in Nebraska  :(. It's just a real shame to watch these old majestic structures just deteriorate and fall apart  :-\. I guess the upkeep is just too daunting and dangerous or materials too costly for most.
  Whenever I see one in disrepair I always think to myself what could be done to save it or is it just to far gone to be brought back to life? Having grown up on my family homestead farm I love to explore a good barn and learn the history that took place inside.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: tburch on February 16, 2018, 08:48:15 AM
Looks like it's coming along.   Quite the project there!    Keep at it!   We love pictures and updates.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: Wisconsintimber on March 31, 2018, 01:37:30 PM
Wow, It's looking nice!  A lot of work I'm sure.  We were wanting to relocate a timber frame barn for a house a few years ago, but couldn't find the right one so went a different direction.
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: Tin Horse on March 31, 2018, 02:23:45 PM
Great building. I've got a barn very similar to that one. It has also had some work done and more to come. It was a priority for me when we bought our property. Too
 many of these rare and unique barns are let go. Often because of failing foundation work.
I love to see these buildings being saved. They're sure worth it.
Awesome job. ;D
Title: Re: Fixing up an old barn
Post by: barbender on March 31, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
That is a fine old building, a work of art as far as I am concerned. You're doing great work restoring it!