I did up a 1'000 feet of door trim, and now I'm ready to take it on the road and see if I can find a buyer. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38552/IMG_08495B15D.JPG)
Funny thing is, I've never bought a piece of trim in my life! :D I've made everything I've ever used or am just installing something some one else bought.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38552/IMG_08515B15D.JPG)
I've talked to some of the local hardware stores and they said they might be interested, I just have to take some in and talk price, and that's where I need help: What do I charge for it? ??? They are charging $1.20-$1.40 A FT for compareable stuff
To cover the costs and pay me a wage of $20hr I need at least $0.85ft (or $5.80 a piece for the 10' in my picture)
but do you think I could ask for $0.70 a ft? and maybe $0.80 for the clear stuff? I'm not sure how much the store will want to mark it up.
I'm also thinking of trying to sell it directly to the local contractors for $1.00ft
What do you think? would you buy it for that? :)
I don't know anything about pricing but it looks like you do a mighty fine job. :)
I think you might have trouble selling the knotty stock. The trend today is for painted trim and knots and paint don't mix well.
I personally would throw up a craigslist ad for $.90-$1.00 ft. Any local.contractor should jump on that deal. I have sold more stuff on craigslist than any other classifieds outlet. In fact I listed 2 non-running atv's late this morning, and they were headed out the front gate on a trailer by 3pm.
What kind of moulder are you running, the trusty Woodmaster?
Thanks Poston! I try. :)
@Brad_s I know what you mean, I live in cottage country tho, so there's still a market for this. (Not a huge one unfortunately) On the other hand about 500ft of this is clear. :)
@Hunz I'll have to give that a try.
Our wood master has treated us pretty good, can't exactly remember how long we've had it but no problems yet. 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38552/darcy_camera_117~0.JPG)
Seems (to me) if a contractor or a hardware store is interested, that they would want door and window trim and base that has the same pattern.
Is what you have shown a standard pattern, or are the knives custom made?
What species?
I never liked trim that had knots on the side. They tend to fall out.
Develop 2 different prices for clears and knotty. Find out which would be of the most interest to the dealer. I think retail tries to double their money to cover their overhead. That might give a clue to where your competition has priced.
If you start to sell to these guys, will you be able to fill future demand, or is this just one shot and done? I think Beenthere has a good point about matching trim.
The larger and chain stores here use UPC labels and computer inventory to reorder. It might be difficult to break into that market because the managers would have little concern regarding saving a few cents on an item that would require manual inventory control.
Finish/trim contractors would be more of an outlet.
This thread points out how vital marketing is no matter what product or service that you may offer.
Quote from: beenthere on January 22, 2015, 12:34:02 AM
Seems (to me) if a contractor or a hardware store is interested, that they would want door and window trim and base that has the same pattern.
Is what you have shown a standard pattern, or are the knives custom made?
What species?
I bought the blade from the Woodmaster cataloge, if they like my work and my price I can get whatever design they want, I can even send a piece of trim to woodmaster and have them make a knife to match.
These are white Pine
@Ron
I find with the EWP that as long as it's a red knot (live knot) they hold on pretty well, but I know what you mean.
If I can manage to find a market for my stuff I'll be keeping a couple thousand feet in storage ready to go of the trim in the pic.
And I'll be offering custom designs with 4 weeks notice. (enough time to order the blade if I don't already have it).
Oh! and I'm also going to offer pre-finished! I stain and varnish all my trim before putting it up, and then just do touch up's if needed, works really well.
Maybe $0.60 for the knotty and $0.90 for the clear?
@magicman, I hear you, I'm hoping the small local stores will be more likely to buy but I'm afraid you might be right. At worst the local store that I use said he'd put a sample on the display and take a comision for any sales thru them.
I'm going to do a lot of searching to find the contractors and maybe make up a flyer I can send them.
Thanks for the advice gentlmen! :)
Try and find the source where contractors buy door and trim pkgs. They usually pre stain and clear coat pkgs. Those folks might have a interest in your product.
i'll offer my veiws :) i have many reasons why i don't deal with trim, lack of equipment is not one of them.
1) there is hundreds of profiles ,can't carry all of them
2)there are several of species, can't carry all of them
3)most profiles need to be 12'-16' lg. you handle alot of lumber to have the "trim" grade
4)direct compition with big mill that handle millions of feet
5)most customers especially contractors can't or won't plan far enough ahead to fit the time table needed.
i'm not saying it can't be done, just really look at it hard and realistic before jumping in with both feet . my imput isn't what you want to hear but,its' real. :)
good luck
I'd like to try the same type thing in the future. Thought about selling trim packs on CL, like enough to do both sides of a door. Your trim looks really nice.
Being able to produce a product does not, in itself, guarantee success. Someone here just a few weeks ago was going into the lumber business and was asking questions about ways to sell it.
It is kinda a chicken/egg situation, but the market needs to be there for the need to be met.
I as stated before, craigslist. It has been good for me. Most often I get people (wood not trim) that are doing projects themselves or supply to a carpenter for a certain look. As a carpenter myself, these are the folks I am looking for. Just because one place says no doesn't mean the next one will. Good luck, Brian
I'll share what I learned 15 years ago, up until about 6 years ago, making and selling mouldings.
In my area, there was no chance of selling to a retailer. They could buy in bulk for less than I could produce. Their markup is more than 100%. I wouldn't waste my time here.
I concentrated on all direct sales. I sold directly to the building contractors, as our area was in a construction boom at the time, and houses were going up everywhere.
I sold poplar base, trim, and crown moulding in a couple different profiles, with a couple different sizes. Lengths had to be either 12' or 16', or it they weren't interested.
My machine was a Williams and Hussey moulder, and I had a total of 18 different profiles. I, of course, would add profiles when requested to match an existing profile by having the knives made locally.
I also made the same mouldings available in maple, cherry, oak, or walnut in 10' and 12' lengths.....whatever I could get in length. This was not as often, but paid well when the orders came in. Local millwork companies were charging $4 to $8 a linear foot for this stuff, so I did well with a good discount to the builder.
Stock had to be mostly clear. The knotty stuff would not sell, and get picked out of the pile, unless the knots were occasional and small, and could be cut around.
Over time, I had a pretty good side business going, until the economy tanked, and the houses stopped going up. I sold my moulder 4 years ago.
I would tell you not to waste your time and efforts with retailers. Go direct to the builders, and craigslist for the homeowners.
Great advice guys! :) Thanks.
Don't worry I'm not quiting my day job (or summer job I should say) This is an experiment, if it works, GREAT!! ;D if not, I'll use the trim I've made for my own purposes :)(I'm going to be using large quantities of it in the near future) I have all the work I can handle from the middle of March to the middle of November. I just need something to bring in some money in the winter.
Everybody seems to be saying the same thing: sell direct. So thats what I'm going to try. :)
If I can stock pile a bunch of trim in the winter and sell over the year that will be great.
If it doesn't work, no harm done.
I can beat the box stores by price and quality. Just got to get the word out. :)
Back when I was building custom houses and running a lot of trim, there were many times when I would love to have had some extra long trim pieces. Perhaps you could keep some long (20') blanks in stock for special orders (at a premium price of course).
That molding in the picture is #444, a stock profile that can be had anywhere.
With hobby machines specialty is the name of the game. With my old Belsaw I could get a knife custom ground with next day delivery if needed. Its also easy to grind ones own knives.
Folks restoring old mansions often need a few feet of custom molding to replace a missing or damaged section. I could sell them a stick for less money than the big guy would charge for a set up fee. Don't just think about your Woodmaster, as there are plenty of other ways to make molding that make sense $$$$'s on certain jobs.
I ran all the molding for the house I just finished on a W&H clone. All of the casing is what I think is my own unique design. A selling point to a prospective builder.
Good idea, I can do that. Me personaly I don't like working with anything over 10-12ft Even doing baseboard or crown moulding I find it easier to put up 2 shorter pieces than try to fight with 1 long piece, but I guess I'm not doing top quality. ;)
@Larry (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=125) Making my own knives or designs sounds a little over my head at the moment, but if this works well maybe in the future! Something to think about. :)
Ok, so I checked in to the local box store to see what thier prices are... good news is: they charge $21.00 for a 8' piece of clear pine thats not as nice as the stuff I make. :) No joke. Bad news is: they sell clear Oak for $10.00 for a 8' piece ??? ??? ??? Can anyone explain that one for me?
But anyways it looks like I can sell for almost half the price of the box store and still make good money. I've got my add up in the classifieds.
But still I can't get over the price of Oak trim?
Be sure to let us know how your add turns out. I too have just recently purchased a Williams & Hussey and have started accumulating knives for it. I plan to run new trim in my house and practice making it before I offer it to people. I have some 20ft logs to cut in to blanks and have them ready if someone needs 20ft stock. I agree that the customer is the direct sale.
Is there a shop that builds doors in your area? They use lots of trim, but the price would have to be right. upc codes might not be a problem for them... Banjo
Quote from: Kipper on January 23, 2015, 11:14:15 PM
Be sure to let us know how your add turns out. I too have just recently purchased a Williams & Hussey and have started accumulating knives for it. I plan to run new trim in my house and practice making it before I offer it to people. I have some 20ft logs to cut in to blanks and have them ready if someone needs 20ft stock. I agree that the customer is the direct sale.
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This seems like a good place to look for advice if your not familiar with running a moulder, I won't pretend to know a lot but I know enough to say: it's not as simple as putting wood in one end and getting trim out the other. ;)
Good preperation makes good mouldings. smiley_thumbsup
In carpentry and fine woodwork it's the short vs long which separates the doers from the wannabes....... I strongly dislike using two pieces of wood where one longer one--within reason--makes more sense and gives a better fit and finish. Also think of the labor.....it takes less time to trim one board 2-3 times for a good, tight fit--thinking baseboard or paneling here--than it does to fit 2 boards in the same run. So even if you charge a premium for longer material it SHOULD cost the builder/homeowner less money in the long run.
Start with the phone book and go out and visit builders with some samples and a list of prices and dimensions. Don't phone--too easy to be blown off. The builders you want to work with are the ones who understand the value of quality and the personal touch. Be prepared with your sample pack like a door-to-door salesman and drop in any good looking house construction project you pass. For fine quality moulding like you're turning out you need to work with fine quality builders, not the bid and budget-minded cookie-cutter tract house builders....(not that there is anything wrong with them....) You'll also get a better price for all your hard work.
So I'm getting mixed results with my efforts to sell my trim, the classifieds add has barely any hits and no phone calls, I wrote up a nice looking email with pictures and found websites for a couple dozen different local contractors and sent it to them. No response back from that yet but who knows.
On the plus side I visited a couple window places and they liked my stuff and said they will be calling in the spring...but they arn't doing any work in the winter.
And I got a good response from the local hardware stores, not surprising they don't want to carry stock (at least not right away) but they liked my stuff and are willing to sell it so they want me to bring in sample boards, buisness cards and a book showing the profiles I can get for custom orders, and they said they will be directing anybody who wants existing trim matched to me. For the most part they seem happy to be giving a local guy business, as long as they can make a few bucks off the top.