I decided to start this thread rather than continuing to hijack the "NYS rough cut lumber codes intensifying thread" which can be found here https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,80981.0.html
I found out (on the forum) about a program in Wisconsin that allows small sawmills and home builders to get around the requirement for graded lumber in residential building.
I decided to take the class even though I don't plan to sell lumber I feel I should learn enough about grading lumber that it will help me in making better lumber. Also if in the future I decide I want to start cutting framing lumber I will already be set up for it.
Once I take the class I will update this thread with how it went and my opinions on the program.
Here is the link to the class http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/ForestBusinesses/events.html
I did that in NH and happy I did.
I'm reposting myself from the other thread.
As far as our Wisconsin law goes, you still have to grade the lumber, and it still needs to meet the standards within the law. You're not selling standard mill run for someone to build with. The standards within the law are actually set a little stricter than commercially graded lumber, so in theory you're producing a higher quality product than you can get from the local lumberyard. You're basically going to grade the lumber much in the same way that a commercial grader would. You then have to do a bit of paperwork, saying it meets a certain grade when you turn around and sell directly to the homeowner who is going to inhabit the home. The lumber can only be used for a one or two family dwelling, not commercial purposes. This course does NOT enable you to make up your own grading stamp and start your own lumber yard selling to contractors.
Ultimately, the call comes down to the building inspector. If they decide to reject all of the rough sawn lumber, they can do that. They can also say that the grade needs to be higher than the law states, or they can just accept it as is within the confines of the law. If you have a stickler for a building inspector, or one who is well connected to the local lumber yard, you might run into troubles.
I got my grading permit a few years ago through the class in Stevens Point. I'm not sure I will ever use it for anyone other than myself, but it was definitely beneficial to go and learn. Now I grade all my structural lumber coming right off the mill, even if it's only for myself. The course is only one day long, and the test is easy. Besides, you go over the material so much that by the end you have it memorized anyway. I recommend that everyone go and take the course. I framed houses for years, and I still learned a lot about framing lumber that I handled every single day. This course will only enhance your knowledge around your mill.
great thread guys thanks.... i'm probably not gonna be able to take that course anytime soon (think young children) but i'd love to at some point. i'm sure as logboy said it would be beneficial even if i didn't wind up selling much structural lumber. 8)
I signed up for this course in Rhinelander two weeks ago. so I guess I will be seeing you there on the 23rd. John :P
Joe you still planning on being at the course on the 23rd, I ask because I'll be there and also I will bring you some Kringle from Racine. Just tell me the flavor you like. John
Yes, I still plan to go about the only thing that would prevent me from showing up would be a heavy snow fall. My father in law will also be coming with me.
It has been years since I have had Kringle, If I recall the flavor I liked the best was some type of cream cheese with lemon, I know for sure it was cream cheese based and it was a very light yellow. Raspberry is always good too.
The class was yesterday. There were at least two other Forestry forum members there, maybe they will chime in as well. Here are my thoughts on the class, in no particular order.
The guy who taught the class appeared to be very knowledgeable about and cared about what he was teaching. He covered quite a bit more than just the grading and the rules. As far as a teaching goes I would give him a 10 out of 10, except for the fact that he works for the DNR so probably closer to a 2 out of 10
Some of the things I learned is soft woods grow compression wood on limbs and when they are leaning to push the tree to the light and hardwoods grow tension wood to pull it towards the light. Also the slower softwoods grow the stronger they are but the slower hardwoods grow the weaker they are. He also showed lots of reasons wood twist, bows, or cups when cut or drying. I think it was worth taking the class even if I never sell a single piece of framing lumber.
When it comes to grading the program has 3 grades, they are 2 and better, stud, and 3. What really surprised me was how a spike knot of the face of a board would take a nice board that would other wise make 2 or better and make it not even make #3. Although if that same knot was buried in the board it would make the grade.
Anther thing that didn't seem right was you could have a board that didn't make grade but if you removed wood from it now it would, so by making it weaker it becomes acceptable to use.
Towards the end the class broke in to smaller groups and we were given boards to discuss and grade. For the most part it was pretty easy to see what was the biggest issue with each board but then it became a bit harder to figure out which grade that issue would cause the board to fall into. When the class was over I don't think anyone who took the class would have been able to grade start grading wood completely without looking at the book or a cheat sheet. That is something that will be learned by doing.
As far as I now every person who took the class passed the test at the end with no problem.
I think most of the people who took the class were new mill owners, people wanting to build a home with their own lumber and people who were planing to get a mill. That is the group of people the class is really designed for. The instructor pointed out that with the way the law is written there are a lot of mills that are too small to afford a real grade stamp but to large to sell all their dimensional lumber directly to the homeowner that get left out in the cold with the current system.
All in all I think it was a good class, I personally learned a lot and met a few people I may stay in contact with and would recommend anyone with a sawmill take the class even if they don't plan to use or sell their lumber for residential building.
Thanks for the update. Even though I do not sell lumber, I would love to take a course such as that.
Knowing what grade the lumber you are sawing will help in your decision making as a sawyer making your lumber easier to sell and improving profits and this is all good.In my opinion the various sawmill manufacturers have failed us, in some cases, by being more interested in selling mills then in making sure the buyer will be a benefit to the whole sawmill industry.
:PI also went to the course in Rhinelander and learned a lot. It will take time to be comfortable knowing what grade you have but I think most would grade on the conservetive side. It should get you lumber that is as good or better than you get in the stores. Thank you thunderbeast for the wourld famous kringle. :P
Glad to hear you took the course. And thanks for reporting on what you learned from it.
as to:
QuoteAs far as a teaching goes I would give him a 10 out of 10, except for the fact that he works for the DNR so probably closer to a 2 out of 10
Not sure why the "low blow" was thrown in there. Maybe you just don't like the DNR ??
To hacknchop, don't see your point about mfg's having responsibility beyond selling and standing behind their mills.
Kringle (http://www.kringle.com/)
Quote from: beenthere on February 24, 2015, 02:12:06 PM
Not sure why the "low blow" was thrown in there. Maybe you just don't like the DNR ??
It was meant to be a joke, I forgot to put the smiley face after it. But to be serious, the guy who taught the class was very nice, knew what he was teaching, was able to answer every question that was asked him about anything wood related even if it was off topic and was able to present the information in a way that was easy to understand.
Thanks Joe. Good to hear.
One of the things we got off topic with yesterday in the class was bugs in the lumber and the instructor said he would send out an email with some information on identifying them based on the damage they do to the wood. I figured it was good information so I am posting it here.
He also sent some information about transporting wood in Wisconsin when it comes to the Emerald Ash Borer. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to put it but I an including that as well.
Quote from: Magicman on February 24, 2015, 01:21:46 PM
Thanks for the update. Even though I do not sell lumber, I would love to take a course such as that.
X2!
To explain my comment about manufacturers responsability, is that when they put adds in magazines promoting portable sawmilling as an way to make a living without making sure that the people who purchase these mills are qualified, its the potential customers that we lose because of their having a bad experience with paying too much for the service compared to the quality of the product or service could be had from compotent sawyer. As you know it is not hard to exceed the value of different species of wood or product at .40 prft for sawing, after having spent time and fuel taking timber off your own land only to realize same product can be purchased for .60 a ft. Some who start their bussines do not understand basics but willing to learn at the expense of others.That all I meant.
Quote from: beenthere on February 24, 2015, 02:12:06 PM
Not sure why the "low blow" was thrown in there. Maybe you just don't like the DNR ??
You must not be a deer hunter. :D
:D :D
Another WI short course on lumber grading... coming up end of summer
Wisconsin Local-Use Dimension Lumber Grading Short-Course (http://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/WIDNR/2015/06/01/file_attachments/395212/2015-August%2B24th%2BWLUDLG_announcement.pdf)