I opened up a reclaimed beam and found these tracks, probably 5/16ths diameter. It's lone gone whatever did it. What was it?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16191/Large_holes.jpg)
I also have a couple with these holes and tracks in not only the sapwood, but below in the solid wood. Is this Powder post beetles? The tracks are about 7/64 diameter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16191/small_holes.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/6a00d834206b3553ef00e54f3741258833-640wi.jpg)
Looks like another case of the braces bill goat, gets my lumber piles when the pastures aren't green.
I'm of no help, although I think powder post beetles make smaller holes.....
Brad, what species of wood is that?
I'm ah wonderin' bout da species of da goat?? ???
Second pic looks like PPB to me. I don't know what the first would be.
Quote from: Magicman on March 04, 2015, 10:45:34 PM
I'm ah wonderin' bout da species of da goat?? ???
:D Powder Post Goat
I'd say carpenter ants wollowed out the boards, little holes are powder post beetles. Frank C.
I'm guessing PowderPost Beetles, the beams most likely had some bark left on them, and that's where the PPB's start!
The first pic looks like termite damage. The second pic is powderpost beetles.
I believe it's Beech. This beam came out of a grainery further south along with about 9 others I have. One of the beams was totally toast. In the center it was all eaten out and turned to powder as I milled it. Carpenter ants in my experience leave a bit more structure in their nest with more clear defined tunnels than what I found here. One tree service guy thought it was termites on the larger holes and chewed out areas. We don't really have termites in my area, but this set of beams came from 4 hours south. Most of the beams had a lot of the smaller tracks/holes. It looks like the PP beetles had a field day with some of them. Luckily I only this pile like this.
First one could be a borer. All different kinds - google white worms in firewood, some get amazingly big.
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/what-are-those-worms-my-firewood
Second one is PPB.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0784S.JPG)
These were inside of a Water Oak. :)
You can catch a stringer of Brim with that bait Magic. :)
I have some experience with powder post beetles, and although difficult to tell for sure without something to gauge those hole sizes with. I have had PBB in ash and red oak and walnut sapwood, the holes are very very small almost to small to see. These holes look more the size I see in Butternut lumber from time to time. There are many different kinds of bugs I am sure however PBB holes are very small and when you have them they leave a fine powder in piles as the exit. It feels like baby powder in between your fingers.
I've sawed a few pieces that had been sitting around, and zipped right through a few of the creatures that Magicman is showing...they pretty ugly, but left some neat tunnels.
I was doing a job in Manhatten last year and a guy had made a really neat table for a gallery out of what he called cypress. Not sure exactly what it was but the slabs were practically rotten, and were loaded with holes and tunnels about 1/4" in diameter. Those holes, combined with the fact that he was told it was a submerged cypress that was hundreds of years old made the slabs worth about $5k each...2" thick, 14-18" wide, and 12' long. They didn't look like anything anything more than rotting pine to me, and practically fell apart if you touched them. It's funny how wood prices can skyrocket with a story. You might just have some highly valuable holy wood there!
Quote from: Magicman on March 05, 2015, 09:50:14 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0784S.JPG)
These were inside of a Water Oak. :)
Looks like LUNCH! ...for a GOAT
Looks like flathead borders to me. They can stay in lumber/logs for a very long time.
That definitely looks like carpenter bee trails. You can see the entry holes where they came in.
If you leave a deck of Pine or Fir logs very long around here the borers will get in them. Sometimes there are so many bugs in the deck that you can hear them munching away on the logs. :(
In this area, we have Pine Beetles (I don't know the species name) and they will get into the Pine logs if they are left laying around a little too long!
The only way I've seen bugs bother sawn lumber is if there is a little bark left on it!
You know Magic at the end of the day sawing you might smell just like a log to those bugs.
Are you inferring that MM has bugs? :D
Quote from: WDH on March 06, 2015, 08:03:50 PM
Are you inferring that MM has bugs? :D
Looks like he's taking a risk to me, smelling like bug-food and all. How about a few of those in your socks at the end of the day? If I dropped those on the floor inside the house...oh I hate to think about the noise I would hear.
Oh yea I heard em munchin away in some pine here over the summer. They wizzed me off
Quote from: WDH on March 05, 2015, 07:31:16 AM
The first pic looks like termite damage. The second pic is powderpost beetles.
I agree 100%.
Quote from: Cypress Man on March 05, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
That definitely looks like carpenter bee trails. You can see the entry holes where they came in.
In my experience carpenter bees are going to be pretty large, 1/2" to 3/4" wide and perfectly cylindrical. Like a drill bit, with a series of chambers.
So here's a question, after I saw and plane this Beech that was originally cut and milled 120 or so years ago, do I need to spray with a borate solution? They are stacked in my pole barn with good air space between them while we are cutting the frame over the next 7 months.
Given that you did not find any evidence of a current infestation, you probably don't need to treat with anything, but it still might not be a "bad" idea if it won't effect what you want to do with the wood.
The first picture I agree is the result of termites, (the packed saw dust looking, lighter colored concretion is actually their "poop". It appears that they were either drywood or dampwood termites, (as the concretion does not contain any soil that subterranean termites would necessarily mix in). Dampwood termites only will exist in wood that is, (yes, you guessed it, Damp). Once it dries out, they die or move on, so there is no continuing issue with them being able to reinfest. Generally, drywood termites leave a loose granular small "pellet", (as distinguished from dust). However, in wood as old as this, those pellets can end up getting concreted together from moisture out of the air. If these were drywood termites, then they can reinfest, and spread to other wood in the vicinity. However, again, given that you planked out the beam, and did not find any "live" activity, it appears that you are *probably* safe.
If you are living in one of the areas of the country that is currently experiencing arctic conditions, set the boards outside single stack on edge and let them hard freeze a few nights. That will also kill drywood termites without effecting the wood in any way.
The second photo is definitely evidence of "powder post beetles". There are several species of beetle that can produce this type of activity, but without an actual insect to identify, they all get lumped together as they are all pretty synonymous with each other as to the damage and potential for reinfestation. Powder post beetles will only infest dead and "dry" wood. The beetle plants eggs in the wood, and then the larval stage is what actually chews its way through the wood, to later emerge from those small holes on the exterior to begin its adult stage of life. So like drywood termites, any powder post beetle infested wood you bring around your shop, home or other wood, CAN spread to other "dead and dry" wood. Powder post beetles are also harder to kill in their larval state. Typically within the pest control industry, the only "sure" solution to powder post beetles is to fumigate the wood with methyl bromide. That is why almost all wood brought into this country, or shipped overseas, (even the pallets), are required to be fumigated to stop the spread of these and other similar pests.
I treated all of the "reused" wood that I used and am using on my Cabin. I felt better safe than sorry.
MM, you treatedwith borate or methyl bromide? Those were some big grubs. Do you know what they become?
Again I say the first pic is carpenter bees drilled a hole and continued down the length of the beam. When you sawed the beam into lumber thats what it looks like. Thats way to big to be termites. The second pic is definitely powder post beetles.
Quote from: Cypress Man on March 08, 2015, 07:10:04 PM
Again I say the first pic is carpenter bees drilled a hole and continued down the length of the beam. When you sawed the beam into lumber thats what it looks like. Thats way to big to be termites. The second pic is definitely powder post beetles.
You could be right, it is impossible to say just on a picture. However, the reason I don't believe the first picture shows carpenter bee damage, is because of the lighter conglomerate, or concretion of wood particles, dust, pellets that are also shown in the boring tracts. Carpenter bees are not considered a wood destroying organism. No stage of their insect life "eats" wood. Rather, adult carpenter bees will "chew" a round 1/2 inch hole into wood up to a couple of inches deep. In this area, they seem to prefer cedar and pine, as I have seen little evidence of them in fir and hardwoods, (again I am looking at this from a structural perspective, I have no idea what these bees prefer out in the forest). They deposit the resulting wood debris by spitting it outside the hole. Then they deposit their eggs in the back of the hole. When the eggs hatch, the young carpenter bees then fly out of the hole.
No where in this process does the carpenter bee deposit saw dust within their tracks that can form a conglomerate as these pictures depict. That is why I am pretty confident that the damage was done by termites, because they do leave that exact type of small pellet that forms such conglomerates. While termites are certainly smaller than carpenter bees, I have seen some huge damage routes carved out by both drywood and dampwood termites, that look almost identical to what is shown in the picture. My money would actually be on dampwood termites, because those suckers can get huge, and I suspect the damage was quite limited to only one or a couple of spots in the log that likely had water intrusion into the log before it was milled. Then the wood dried and ended any further infestation.
Again......
www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5320268.pdf