Just thought I would share. I had been looking at all the different style and brands of bandwheels for my build. After reading and searching for weeks, I finally found some American made wheels on clearence at grainger for 110 each. They are either browning or tb woods.
So let the building begin.
I'm going to pick up a milling machine that I bought, tomorrow, to aid in making all the parts.
Guess I will use this thread as my build thread and update it as I progress.
Mill will be total hydraulic. I have a few 27 gpm pumps I will use.
The Diesel engine I was going to use will cost too much to repair.
Figured I would use a car engine to power it, I can get one for free.
Already have a few cylinders and Hyd motors. I have a rotation gearbox off a Derrick truck which is worm gear driven with a break I am going to use for head up and down.
A bush hog style Hyd motor will drive the band.
Is what you're building spelled out in another thread?
We like pics. 8)
With the parts that you have listed including a car engine, this will be interesting to follow. :P
The whole build sounds good. Milling machine and all.
That should be quite a mill when you finish. What size wheels did you get? Stationary? Looking forward to following the build.
this sounds like it's going to be fun thread to follow,, I had visions of a V-8 mounted on this mill kinda like that tractor that was on you tube racing down a country road and tearing up jack in a field through all four gears! :D
The wheels are 18.75, from what I found by research, they should be the same wheels sold by others for builds. I thought about bigger wheels, but the bands get more expensive the bigger you go.
It will more than likely be stationary, it will have wheels on it so I can move it around but once I get it set up it will stay there for a while.
Going to make the bed from 3/16 2x6 tubing, thinking 24ft pieces.
Picked up the milling machine this morning! It's an enco knee mill,
Should do for what I want!
Got to get it wired up and order some bits and a boring head for it, because I'm sure I will tear up one or two.
Ill post a few pics of it when I get it off trailer and set up.
There is one thing that I'm not sure of yet, and that is guide wheels.
I cut one v wheel on the lathe to see how hard it would be, fairly easy to do.
But now I'm wondering if I would need a cam follower or something to make sure sawhead can't lift off the track??
Had planned on angle iron welded to top of 2x6 tubing, but I may rethink this if anyone thinks the blade could make the head rise off the track?? Or would the weight of sawhead hold it down??
It should certainly have plenty of weight holding it down with any car engine. The mill I just sold with a 6.5 HP engine I could load the carriage into the back of my pickup by myself without anything but ramps and it never tried to lift the carriage.
Others with more experience would know better, but I'd have to guess you'd either stall your band or break it before picking up that much weight.
Have fun with your build and show lots of pics.
The head would surely stay on the rails, but I would still use cam followers, etc. to prevent the unthinkable.
Quote from: sst04 on March 06, 2015, 02:07:17 PM
The wheels are 18.75, from what I found by research, they should be the same wheels sold by others for builds. I thought about bigger wheels, but the bands get more expensive the bigger you go.
It will more than likely be stationary, it will have wheels on it so I can move it around but once I get it set up it will stay there for a while.
Going to make the bed from 3/16 2x6 tubing, thinking 24ft pieces.
Picked up the milling machine this morning! It's an enco knee mill,
Should do for what I want!
Got to get it wired up and order some bits and a boring head for it, because I'm sure I will tear up one or two.
Ill post a few pics of it when I get it off trailer and set up.
There is one thing that I'm not sure of yet, and that is guide wheels.
I cut one v wheel on the lathe to see how hard it would be, fairly easy to do.
But now I'm wondering if I would need a cam follower or something to make sure sawhead can't lift off the track??
Had planned on angle iron welded to top of 2x6 tubing, but I may rethink this if anyone thinks the blade could make the head rise off the track?? Or would the weight of sawhead hold it down??
I bought an Enco knee mill new in 93. Has been an excellent mill. Still use it today.
better use the cam followers (or a piece of angle with teflon would work just as well) the problem i had with it was jumping off the angle when starting or stopping to sudden when i first put the hyd on the hudson mill it is a small 8 hp manual mill but it doesnt try to lift when sawing. the wood actually helps keep it on tracks. the only time mine ever jumped off was stopping or changing directions.
there are ways to cushion stop hydraulics but all i know of are expensive and some times you might need to stop dead instead of cushion. others on here might have better ideas :) :P
This should be a interesting build to follow. When I bought my mill I was lucky to find a retired machinist that had boxes of cutters, indicators, counter bore bits, reamers, and a little bit of everything else for a couple hundred dollars. It pays to put a wanted add on craigslist and try to find a package deal. I think the weight of your mill should keep it on the tracks.:)
Some time back I remember reading about a mill build where for some reason it began to tip back unexpectedly, honestly don't remember what he was doing but if I recall correctly it scared him enough that he supported it so that never happened again. My concern with a big engine would be if for some strange reason it began to go there would be no stopping it.
Look forward to seeing the photos.
popcorn_smiley
Surplus Center 18.75 44.95 http://www.surpluscenter.com/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/?page_no=1&fq=ATR_PulleyOutsideDiameter:18.75
Quote from: scor440 on March 06, 2015, 09:39:36 PM
Surplus Center 18.75 44.95 http://www.surpluscenter.com/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/?page_no=1&fq=ATR_PulleyOutsideDiameter:18.75
Those are similar to what I bought, I had those in my cart on surplus center. But after reading a few threads where guys said they have a little wobble, I kept looking for a browning set. I'm sure those would have been fine, but I was unsure so I passed.
Also, to clarify, the engine won't be mounted to the sawhead, it will be a power pack type that is seperate from the mill. Or that's what I'm planning anyway.
The rotation gear box weighs about 100lbs, so that will be most of the weight.
I think I'll figure a way to use cam followers to keep it down, just in case.
I did round up some #80 chain today for the chain turner.
Plan on taking a link apart about every 6 inches and making a tooth to go in its place, at least that's the best I can come up with now.
Quote from: 21incher on March 06, 2015, 09:02:44 PM
This should be a interesting build to follow. When I bought my mill I was lucky to find a retired machinist that had boxes of cutters, indicators, counter bore bits, reamers, and a little bit of everything else for a couple hundred dollars. It pays to put a wanted add on craigslist and try to find a package deal. I think the weight of your mill should keep it on the tracks.:)
I have been looking for used stuff. Enco has some decent prices on end mills and all. Been watching videos on YouTube about operation and feed rates and chip load, got my head hurting lol. It will take some time to learn how to do it right.
It also came with a 12 inch rotary table which will come in handy making the adapters from crankshaft to pumps along with many other things.
You definitely want to use cam followers, or something similar to keep the carriage on the track. When I built mine I used 3"x6"x3/16" rectangular tubing for the main frame. I tacked a piece of 1"x1" angle on the outside for the cam follower to ride under. Be sure to use a valve for a hydraulic motor for smoother stops, and a detent in both directions is really nice too.
I was moving my sawmill once, and had to cram on the brakes to keep from hitting someone stopped in the middle of the road to look at the deer. The carriage broke loose from it's keepers, and came flying at the back of my pickup...I was sure glad I decided to put those cam followers on there then.
Pick up some flow control, or needle valves while you're at it, 20 something gallons per minute is going to be way overkill for everything but maybe the motor you're using for the blade drive. But you'll like the worm gear for the lift. smiley_thumbsup
I was thinking that the cam follower track (or the bottom of the beam) would have to be in perfect alignment with the carriage track or things would bind up if it got too tight.
Which got me to thinking i guess you could spring load the cam follower with a short compression spring.
Which got me to thinking that the cam follower would not have to touch the cam follower track just needs to be there just in case.
Which got me thinking in that case do you really need a cam follower? perhaps a bolt or piece of round stock will do, or even a piece of angle iron?
How about an angle bracket with a block of UHMW as a wear pad? Make the bracket adjustable so you could set it as close to the frame as possible without rubbing. As stated, it doesn't need to make contact all the time, just needs to be there as a safety.
Also, the 80 roller chain is a little light for a turner, in my opinion. I'd look for a length of 120. Those turners really take a beating.
-lee
Quote from: sst04 on March 06, 2015, 10:08:46 PM
Quote from: scor440 on March 06, 2015, 09:39:36 PM
Surplus Center 18.75 44.95 http://www.surpluscenter.com/Pulleys/Finished-Bore-Pulleys/?page_no=1&fq=ATR_PulleyOutsideDiameter:18.75
Those are similar to what I bought, I had those in my cart on surplus center. But after reading a few threads where guys said they have a little wobble, I kept looking for a browning set. I'm sure those would have been fine, but I was unsure so I passed.
Also, to clarify, the engine won't be mounted to the sawhead, it will be a power pack type that is seperate from the mill. Or that's what I'm planning anyway.
The rotation gear box weighs about 100lbs, so that will be most of the weight.
I think I'll figure a way to use cam followers to keep it down, just in case.
I did round up some #80 chain today for the chain turner.
Plan on taking a link apart about every 6 inches and making a tooth to go in its place, at least that's the best I can come up with now.
I second SPD748 on the bracket.
Quote from: redprospector on March 06, 2015, 11:08:01 PM
You definitely want to use cam followers, or something similar to keep the carriage on the track. When I built mine I used 3"x6"x3/16" rectangular tubing for the main frame. I tacked a piece of 1"x1" angle on the outside for the cam follower to ride under. Be sure to use a valve for a hydraulic motor for smoother stops, and a detent in both directions is really nice too.
I was moving my sawmill once, and had to cram on the brakes to keep from hitting someone stopped in the middle of the road to look at the deer. The carriage broke loose from it's keepers, and came flying at the back of my pickup...I was sure glad I decided to put those cam followers on there then.
Pick up some flow control, or needle valves while you're at it, 20 something gallons per minute is going to be way overkill for everything but maybe the motor you're using for the blade drive. But you'll like the worm gear for the lift. smiley_thumbsup
I do have a few flow control valves in my cart on surplus center.
The pumps I am using are pressure compensated, so they don't flow until you tell them to with a sense line, and only what the cylinder or motor "wants".
Spd748, I do have some plastic wear pads from boom slides, I could use those.
Thanks for the ideas guys, hopefully this will be a nice mill when I'm done.
curious as to why you are going all hydraulic. A car engine would use a pretty good amount of fuel I would think. Also you will need to keep the oil cool. Not saying its bad just wondering.
Quote from: ozarkgem on March 07, 2015, 08:35:35 PM
curious as to why you are going all hydraulic. A car engine would use quiet a bit of fuel I would think. Also you will need to keep oil cool. Not saying its bad just wondering.
I have gone over every option as far a engine that I can think of. And I decided that if I spend all the time to build a mill, I want it to be as "good" and have all the bells and whistles that the expensive sawmills have as far as hydraulics.
I have these pumps, and they require about 20 hp each, I have about 6 or 7 of them. So I figured I could build a heck of a mill using them. Plus the motors and cylinders I already have. Engine won't cost anything, and I can choose from a 4 cyl up to 8 cyl, so any parts I will need will be easy to get.
I also have the control valves, one is big enough to control the Hyd motor for band, the other is an 8 spool to control everything else.
I have some aluminum coolers also, Throw a couple of 12v fans on them and make about a 30 gallon tank with baffles and all. That should keep it cool enough.
Total cost for me will be around 3k, and that is on the high side.
I'm sure there will be downfalls like fuel consumption and size, but I don't plan on cutting for anyone so I'm not worried about moving it around.
Also, I work with some of the best hydraulic gurus there is. If I can't figure it out, then they can!
Now my wife kind of understands why I don't get rid of anything haha.
This will be one of the biggest projects I have tackled, I'm excited about it and welcome and and all input and ideas!
I see. I could use some of the hydraulic guru's when you are done with them
This will definately be an interesting built to follow.
I like the hydraulically driven bandwheels. ;D
I am curious about the car engine.
Did you find a good way to mount the hydraulic pump(s) to the engine?
Building or adapting a governor and linkage that will keep consistant speed under a load may be one of the most challanging parts of this build.
I look forward to watching this project unfold.
more than likely you can order a mech gov that will just bolt on if its got a carb if its fuel injected it can still be done but im not familiar my stuff is to old
Quote from: sst04 on March 06, 2015, 02:07:17 PM
There is one thing that I'm not sure of yet, and that is guide wheels.
I cut one v wheel on the lathe to see how hard it would be, fairly easy to do.
But now I'm wondering if I would need a cam follower or something to make sure sawhead can't lift off the track??
Had planned on angle iron welded to top of 2x6 tubing, but I may rethink this if anyone thinks the blade could make the head rise off the track?? Or would the weight of sawhead hold it down??
I had the head of my mill tip over when it was running, it was caused by a broken lift cable. It was dangerous and probably damaged a couple hundred dollars worth of parts. I would recommend something wrapped around the beam to keep the head from being able to tip.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,76459.msg1159944.html#msg1159944
Quote from: boscojmb on March 08, 2015, 11:38:27 PM
This will definately be an interesting built to follow.
I like the hydraulically driven bandwheels. ;D
I am curious about the car engine.
Did you find a good way to mount the hydraulic pump(s) to the engine?
Building or adapting a governor and linkage that will keep consistant speed under a load may be one of the most challanging parts of this build.
I look forward to watching this project unfold.
Probably a short driveshaft from crank to pumps, one off front and rear. Ill just make an adapter to bolt to flywheel and crank pully.
As far as governor, a cruise control should work.
I have the band wheels now, they are browning brand, so if anyone looking for some they are on clearence at grainger, get them before they are gone! 3x610 part #.