The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Hale87 on April 11, 2015, 08:26:15 AM

Title: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Hale87 on April 11, 2015, 08:26:15 AM
Trying to figure out where I can buy a list of landowners with ten or more acres of ground? I know they're out there because occasionally I have received solicitation from foresters myself. I did find one company but they showed less than a hundred people with ten or more acres in my county and five hundred in the next county. I'm hoping to find someone that can do better than that because the county I'm in is bigger than the other so I think they're missing a bunch.

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: curdog on April 11, 2015, 08:59:57 AM
I don't know how good your county gis is or if yall have one, but that information can be found there. I've stopped by the gis office and made friends with the guys over there. I've had them pull up number of parcels in a particular fire district,  number of structures in a development.  All of that info is pretty easy for them to pull up. I'm not sure if your local forestry office can or would give you that info, but with arcmap that's a few minutes find as well. But as far as buying the info I have no idea.  But I've ran reports similar to that for my county through arcmap.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: breederman on April 11, 2015, 09:05:39 AM
I may be odd , but if anyone ever cold called me or sent mail soliciting my timber , when the time came they for sure would not be called. ::)
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: treeslayer2003 on April 11, 2015, 09:09:00 AM
you should be able to do property search online. it is public information.

breederman, why would that upset you? many land owners have no clue there is any value in their woods.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: thenorthman on April 11, 2015, 10:31:29 AM
Round here its forbidden to use the online gis maps to contact land owners or make lists with contact info from the gis maps...

You can look all you want and do some research whatever, but contacting owner is no good.

Somehow there is a way to contact them legally, just haven't figured it out yet, probably have to go into the county building and ask a lot of stupid questions... Phone is about useless anymore... press 1 for engrish, press 2 for ukrainiun, press 3 for spanglish, press 4 for ethopian... I'm sorry I didn't understand you... Press 1 for... and zero doesn't work anymore.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: WV Sawmiller on April 11, 2015, 10:58:44 AM
Guess I'm the oddball. I would not have any problem with someone contacting me about my timber. I have 42 acres mostly wooded. I would most likely say no. I might agree to let them thin some target trees I'd be willing to sell if their timing and procedures did not interfere with my deer or turkey hunting schedules or equipment was going to mess up my property.

If I was not ready to sell I'd keep his name and number and if I ever changed my mind I'd call him. I see nothing wrong with a man trying to make an honest living. I've left business cards on log piles where I saw people clearing land or stopped to talk where they had a few logs piled up around their homes. I figure I offer a service they may want but just didn't know who to contact.

I have had a couple companies contact me about leasing gas rights to my place and I did so. When I discussed with the company's reps their procedures were well in line with my land use plans.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Hale87 on April 11, 2015, 03:51:28 PM
My goal is to send out magnetic business cards to landowners with ten or more acres. Nobody likes telemarketing, but there's a reason they still do it.... it works!!! Plus if you put something in front of them that shows your local and not big city, it works even better. Hand written envelopes help even more.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Straightgrain on April 11, 2015, 05:39:12 PM
Forget the government,

I would recommend gaining visibility through a small woodlot association.

Preliminary Inoculation to support my premise: 1. I do not belong to a woodlot association, 2. I do not belong to a senior association, 3. I'm not in business any more, and 4. Extra information alert.

1. There are a lot of people who belong to private organizations; primarily for the passing of information, much of which is passed through their monthly flyers; the back page of many flyers has sponsors (much like our forum). The information they pass can lead to a call.

2. When I had my construction business, I posted my company information on the various association bulletin boards and organization flyers; one was at the local senior center and they rang my phone "off the hook". They are a tough segment of the population to make a profit from; witty, keen, and little respect for a younger person's (today's overhead) )costs.

3. I targeted the wrong population(s) and my company suffered a slow death that took me 5 years to pay-off (instead of filing for bankruptcy). By the time I figured-out that unoccupied-residential or commercial was the solution, it was 2008 and the rest is history.

4. Perform a Market Segmentation Exercise and create a Scatter Plot before you spend any money or effort; finding the right type of client and primarily targeting them will increase your bottom line in the long run. Example, working for a person(s) selling something probably means they only want the minimum standard accomplished to preserve their bottom line; NOT my kind of client.

I know I blabbed too much, but I hope it helps.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 11, 2015, 06:42:56 PM
Everything is online up here as public information including tax assessment on every parcel. $10/month subscription get's all you need to know. What moves most people is cash. If your advertising something that's  going to cost, in this area where I live it won't fly. Plus you can't compete with government subsidies or cost shares.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: luvmexfood on April 11, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
I, as well as some of the neighbors, got a letter about 5 years ago from a timber broker wanting to sell our timber for us. This was way before I even thought about cutting it myself. He was in an adjoining state and stressed in his letter that his money would come from the logger and not from the landowner. I trashed it.

I figured the more hands in the pot the less for everyone. Course he may have gotten a better offer than I could have gotten but now I know how much of each load of logs delivered to the log yard. All of it.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Texas Ranger on April 11, 2015, 07:28:52 PM
Every jake leg in the state has a copy of county land records, most land owners in the know ignore the letters and phone calls.  They have been burned, or their neighbors, in the past.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: submarinesailor on April 11, 2015, 08:09:26 PM
This happens to me about twice per year and I don't like it. :-[ :-[ :-[

Bruce
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Hans1 on April 12, 2015, 09:59:03 AM
In Iowa we can buy these lists it comes in a software that will go right to a printer for labels. The Realestate office I work for uses this all the time. Not sure if you can sort by size of tract but I would bet that you can.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: jocco on April 12, 2015, 08:35:51 PM
I agree on the form letters and most people hate snail mail now.  Use a forester or put an ad in papers and so on. That way the people who are interested will contact you. If you do a mass mailing you can get tied up with lots of people that have little better to do than waste your time!!!! If its a certain lot your interested in contact the owner by whatever means.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Hale87 on April 13, 2015, 10:08:29 AM
I'm surprised by the amount of negative comments. I've done some form of marketing for a long time, and without a doubt it's the way to go. I don't know how many times someone has come up to me and told me they wished they had known I had a portable mill. I simply don't have the cash for a lot of print or radio adds, and that's what it takes if you're going to be successful with that type of advertising.  If you send out a non-intrusive letter to someone simply letting them know you're in the area, in general it's well received. I've received solicitations for my timber, so I'm trying to figure out how to acquire those list?

Thanks for the help so far, you guys have given me some ideas on where to start!!
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Straightgrain on April 13, 2015, 10:32:44 AM
It wouldn't hurt to dial-in your marketing "radar" to show timbered land for sale either; outright speculating is good hedging for some logging companies.

Buying timbered land, waiting/prepping for a year (tax reasons in some states), then harvesting the timber to pay off the debt works in many cases. The real estate agents might have the listings; simply under "land".

If you fine-tune your search for non-build-able land, most of the value will be tied up into the timber and you should be able to end up in the "black".
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Jeff on April 13, 2015, 10:45:23 AM
The good loggers around here are busy. They don't need to market. The ones that try to contact you are the ones that can't get work through referrals, which is what drives the work for the guys that know what they are doing and do a good job.  If I got a cold call on my property, or a letter wanting to buy my timber, It would go in file 13 and there after I would have a negative opinion on that company.

One thing that is common here, and there is nothing wrong with, is to have a standing ad in the surrounding local papers and buyers guides for buying standing timber. if someone needs you, they can find you.  My opinion is that is is just plain tacky to cold contact someone on their timber.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: ga jones on April 13, 2015, 11:01:51 AM
Cold contact is a standard practice here. Mills do it foresters do it loggers do it. Gis mapping and deed office.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Joe Hillmann on April 13, 2015, 11:35:24 AM
If your county doesn't have online GSI mapping they must at least sell plat books?  It won't give you phone numbers but it will tell you the owners.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Hale87 on April 13, 2015, 03:10:56 PM
Quote from: Jeff on April 13, 2015, 10:45:23 AM
The good loggers around here are busy. They don't need to market. The ones that try to contact you are the ones that can't get work through referrals, which is what drives the work for the guys that know what they are doing and do a good job.  If I got a cold call on my property, or a letter wanting to buy my timber, It would go in file 13 and there after I would have a negative opinion on that company.

I've never had a solicitation from a logger but I have had a couple from foresters. A while back I received one from the largest sawmill in the county that ships most of their lumber internationally.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 13, 2015, 03:27:55 PM
We have a different situation up my way. We have forest products marketing boards. Anyone cutting on private land markets wood through the boards because they have the 'contracts' and mill specs, they know who trucks (load slip legislation for chain of custody) plus they pay the truckers, and they have a list pretty much of the 'wood producers' that cut wood. Woodlot owners deal with marketing boards directly or indirectly through this network. So for my instance I just call so and so to cut wood and the ball starts rolling. The only ad for forestry consultants around here either, yellow pages or advertising that is constant is from the marketing boards. Very few around here can afford to look after a harvest for $3 or $4 a cord  and management plans for $400. They can because of volumes, whether they look after a lot or not they get a 0.5% cheque-off on sales. They might look after 3 lots, but get revenues from say 200 others they aren't involved in. You can not compete.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 13, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Hale we have lots of foresters and forest technicians that are loggers. You tend to get a few when mills upgrade or close, shedding jobs,  and someone would still like to stick around in the woods business. Some fellas were actual supervisors looking after company harvesters, then were all the sudden harvesting contractors when all harvesting became contracted. But we also have a few loggers that are someone's 'forester' to and not by diploma or degree.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: ga jones on April 14, 2015, 08:24:04 AM
It's all by region.Its like everything else in this industry. Different regions different  regulations different techniques in harvesting.its all different disciplines.Your in south central pa.It may be a widely accepted practice there or not. Don't be discouraged by other regional ideology.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Jeff on April 14, 2015, 09:07:18 AM
Absolutely so.

One thing I would want to add though, is that you need to think like the landowner thinks in those regions. If you send me a letter letting me know how valuable my timber potentially is, and hint towards knowing what I have, I'd think you were already slinking around my property uninvited. Many people consider google maps or other type of technological advances as an intrusion, so that is not necessarily the approach either. Though shalt not covet your neighbors woodlot. ;) :)
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Hale87 on April 14, 2015, 09:37:50 AM
I'm not a forester trying to buy anything, just want landowners to know I offer a portable sawmill service for those people that don't want the bother of trying to transfer their logs to a stationary sawmill. I put my post over here because of solicitations I've received through the mail from foresters, hoping someone might know where they are getting their info? Sorry for any confusion,,, my bad.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: thecfarm on April 14, 2015, 09:42:49 AM
I get those letters. I feel because I own 170 acres. I have no idea how they get my name. Tax records,registry of deeds??I do read them and look at the company's name. I have a logger and use to log the land myself.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: Jeff on April 14, 2015, 09:55:45 AM
If you search the forum you will find all kinds of ways members have marketed their portable sawmill businesses. I can't remember any of them being direct cold marketing, but I may be wrong. I think you will find the very most effective is to be out there sawing, or even pulling the mill down the road. Get a sign for your mill with your name and phone number on it. Again, I think that cold approach may turn off as many as it turns on. Probably more. Just my opinion on it.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=search2;search=portable%20sawmill%20marketing
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: BargeMonkey on April 14, 2015, 10:07:05 AM
 We routinely pull tax maps and aerial photos at our county tax office, the new ones are pretty good. 99% of the time i would never just cold call a landowner, we see it as a huge turn off. Any logger around here who doesnt have 5-10-20 woodlots ahead is in that situation for a reason. An add in the local paper attracts more trouble than its worth, i see a few timber thieves from greene county always posting "professional" services on CL trying to swindle someone. We go the extra when cleaning up a job or making sure stuff is cleaned up and thats the biggest advertising you will ever need, that and have decent looking equipment, if the landowner see's trash they figure your fly by night and trouble.
It maybe a regional thing but i find more work and meet more people just by getting out of the truck and introducing myself, ran into the new head regional forester out back last fall, 10 mins later he's wanting me to go all over cutting, up this way there is less and less loggers, and the good seperate themselves from the bad quickly.
Title: Re: Target Marketing of Landowners
Post by: clearcut on April 14, 2015, 12:36:09 PM
Hale87,

I'm not going to comment on the wisdom of your marketing idea, but I will on the method.

Land ownership records are public information and they reside usually in the county recorder's office or the county assessor's office or both. That is where you should start.

Some counties (or states) make it easy to access this information. Bedford County, unlike other counties in the state, does not have easy online access that I could find. So you need to call or visit. They may be willing to give you the information, or sell you the information. They could make it easy and inexpensive and download the data to a CD or flash drive (bring one). Or they could fight you all the way and only offer it up in print for an excessive per page charge. They may offer only on-site access.

The county surely sells land ownership data to private firms and may be able to provide you with contact information to those firms . This is also public information and they have to provide it.

I did find a commercial operation that claims to work with Bedford county, and they will sell you the data. I have no other information on the company or the quality of their data.

    http://www.infoconcountyaccess.com


Good luck!