Good Evening:
I just purchased an Echo CS 400 18" today. I would like to solicit input for an additional purchase. I have been told the saw will operate rather well with a 16" bar and chain. I will only be using the saw for some general yard cleanup/upkeep. No firewood cutting or the like.
So could you folks tell me what brand, etc etc 16" bar and chain would be good?
A friend suggested a GB Arbor Tech Bar and Woodland (?) chain, while my other buddy told me to go with Oregon.
Any tips would be so greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Chris301
Welcome to the Forestry Forum. You've come to the right place for an answer. So hang tight, but might search a couple of our sponsors in the left column. Chainsawr and Comstock. Not certain of all their products, but we have great reviews of their companies.
Me, I'd go with the 18" as that is what I have on a Stihl MS250 and for the light work it is a great size for me.
I would agree that the 18 would be fine as long as you are not running it hard enough to need the extra rpms you would gain from shorter bar. Also the 2" you remove from bar is 2" further you have to bend over! ;-)
Chris301,welcome to the forum. Long is good,short is good. I myself like a shorter bar. I only run a 18 on my 372 Husky. BUT I use mine ALOT. Longer bar and chains cost more. Takes longer to sharpen the chain too. For someone like you that 18 will last you a long time. I go through a bar a year and 3-4-5 chains.
Just wondering,why do you want a shorter bar?
For the described use it doesn't matter much, as long as everything fits together and you keep the chain sharp - but generally I wouldn't want an 18" bar on such a saw.
If the saw is set up with 3/8" lo-pro, most bars are much shorter than "called" anyway.
I don't know how good the Chinese Arbor Tech bars are - but believe they are better than most other China made bars.
It was suggested that for the cc's on this saw it would pull a 16" better, and coupled with a muffler mod, it would be a fantastic saw. Now that said let me ask this question..............
I have NOT opened the box (purchased at H.D.)...... should I save some money and return it for a 16" cs 352? or even the 14" cs 310, know this is a general cleanup/maintenance saw for downed limbs, branches etc for my property and NOT for cutting firewood etc etc?
I certainly don't need to spend the money for this saw for limited use when I can put a few bucks in my pocket for a smaller saw. If you folks say keep it fine, but again I am not opposed to swapping it for a smaller less expensive model to do my cleanup here and there.
Thoughts?
Thanks for the replies so far!
Chris
Chris301
I'll be more direct here, and say I would not be buying a saw at HD. And for sure, not buy one and start spending money to change it right off.
But HD is handy so need to do what feels right for you.
Quote from: BubbasDad on April 22, 2015, 11:48:21 PM
I would agree that the 18 would be fine as long as you are not running it hard enough to need the extra rpms you would gain from shorter bar. Also the 2" you remove from bar is 2" further you have to bend over! ;-)
X2
Quote from: beenthere on April 23, 2015, 10:35:27 AM
Chris301
I'll be more direct here, and say I would not be buying a saw at HD. And for sure, not buy one and start spending money to change it right off.
But HD is handy so need to do what feels right for you.
X2 For cleanup, its not going to matter much on saw/bar combo, I like the extra reach of the 18".
I tend to go with the shorter bars. I like the balance better on most of the smaller saws (40 to 55cc) with a 16" bar, as opposed to the 18" or even 20" that they come with.
Yes, you get longer reach with a longer bar, and if that's what you are after, go for it. However longer bar can also be a bit more cumbersome when limbing - sometimes that extra reach just gets in the way. If you are not cutting regularly, it can be easier to "keep track" of the tip of a shorter bar - less chance of accidentally cutting into whatever is behind or under the log or branch you are cutting.
In addition, reaching way out and cutting with the end of a long bar is poor body mechanics. Sometimes, you've got no choice, but it's generally easier on you to just take a step closer or bend your legs a bit, rather than reaching out or down with the tip of the saw. (My wife is a physical therapist, so I get "use good body mechanics" drummed into me on a regular basis. I've also got neck and back troubles from an old college wrestling injury that make me even more sensitive to poor body mechanics. Some folks can get away with reaching out all day long. If I do that, it's a trip to the chiropractor or bug my wife to fix me the next day.)
IMO, a 40cc saw is underpowered for an 18" bar, if you are planning on burying the saw in 18" hardwood. However, what you describe sounds more like mostly limbing and cleaning up broken branches, with maybe blocking up the occasional tree that fell down. It should be fine for that. In the end, it's a matter of personal preference, what you will be cutting, and your style of working with the saw.
Thanks so much all, after reading the replies and much thought I will keep her as is, and if at some point I need a new bar/chain then I shall consider going to 16".
Regards,
Chris
BTW... welcome to the Forestry Forum, Chris. If you get a chance, fill out your profile and let us know where you are from.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum Chris301. I bought 2 Echo saws last fall ( 14" CS310 & 20" CS590 ) and have gotten excellent service from the stock Echo bars and chains that came with them. I bought sharpening kits from my Echo dealer that came with files, a raker depth gauge, slot cleaner, and a guide to match the chains that I would recommend to anyone with a new saw. Keep the chain out of the dirt and I think with the limited use you are talking about the stock chain should last for many years if kept sharp. :)
@21
Thanks, yes I will def keep out of the dirt, and sharpen the chain as needed. Thanks. I think I'll be just fine with what I have out of the box.
**profile updated**
Thanks all!
Quote from: Chris301 on April 22, 2015, 08:41:29 PM
I just purchased an Echo CS 400 18" today. I would like to solicit input for an additional purchase. I have been told the saw will operate rather well with a 16" bar and chain.
So could you folks tell me what brand, etc etc 16" bar and chain would be good?
A friend suggested a GB Arbor Tech Bar and Woodland (?) chain, while my other buddy told me to go with Oregon.
Any tips would be so greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Hi, Im new to the forum and bumping an old thread. I also recently purchased a new Echo CS-400 and would like to put on a 16" chain and bar. I searched for a while and couldn't find a definitive strong reply/suggestion and found this thread which asked my same exact question - problem was no one actually answered or made a suggestion/recommendation for an actual bar and chain.
I see the 3 offerings from Oregon - PRO-AM, Pro Lite and double guardbar but not sure really of the differences
Arbormax lite and Arbormax - Whats the difference in these 2 bars ? They are priced the same?
Another member stated he had bought the Arbormax bar and chain but wished he would have bought the 16" TsuMura Guide Bar instead?
Any reason to just buy an ECHO 16" bar?
Will all 16" chains fit any 16" bar ? I assume not - on Oregons site they state the Prolite bar only works with the 91 chain
So can anyone with first hand experience suggest a 16" bar and chain ?
Also will be doing the MM and Carb tune.
Thanks
Welcome to the forestry forum Deacon. Sorry I'm not of any help on the 16" bar for your echo. I have a echo 680 with a 24" bar and I run Oregon bar and chains.
Deacon, welcome to the forum!
I googled the CS400 and it looks like it uses the A041 tail mount. When searching for a bar, no matter the manufacturer, make sure it has the correct tail mount or it may not fit your saw.
The above said, why do you want a shorter bar?
I'll try and distill my experience and you can make of it what you will. I bought a Poulan Pro 50cc chainsaw that comes stock with a 20" bar. It worked fine for limbing and cutting firewood so long as the chain was kept sharp and I wasn't trying to speed cut through anything large. However I found when I went to cut down a large willow tree and had to use the full length of the bar it was hard to keep the rpms up and cut with any speed, I had to go slow. It worked and the tree went down fine. If all I had to do was a tree here and there or several chords of firewood a year I think it would have been just fine as it was. I did put a 16" bar on it as I had read it would do better with the shorter length and I will say it pulled it with more authority but if I tried to really use the dogs and push it through the cut I could still stop the chain. I am a unrepentant tinkerer so I tend to not leave things alone even if they are fine and always wonder how it could be made better.
So with the above in mind, if you're using the saw for a bit of firewood or the occasional cleanup and don't NEED a different bar size you can leave it as is and be fine. If you're like me and you just want to see the difference and don't mind spending the money then a shorter bar may be the ticket. I wonder if a 14" bar wouldn't be a better pairing for a 40cc saw though. To me dropping bar size by only 2" I wonder what the actual gains would be.
I only have experience with the Oregon bars but so far I think it's a solid piece of kit. Unless you're a logger using your saw 8+ hours a day all week I think you'd be hard pressed to wear one out if you're using it correctly. I also like Oregon's chains. Again, I only have experience with that brand but I haven't felt a need to try a different brand.
Another thing to keep in mind is the chains that come with these homeowner saws are usually a "safety" chain or low kickback chain and in my experience they don't tend to cut as quickly or in my opinion as well. Depending on your comfort level you may want to look at a different chain, one that doesn't have the rakers bent over like Shamoo's dorsal fin but are straight up. You'll notice a world of difference in the speed of the cut but the trade off being you supposedly have a higher chance of kick back. I wonder how often it's not the bar length but the chain that makes the difference on these little saws?
Keep in mind I've only owned chainsaws for about 4 months so I am not trying to pass myself off as someone who knows anything, just relating my thoughts on my journey so far.
Brandon
I got a WoodlandPro for mine. Price is good, and it appears to be at least the equal of the stock bar, if not better.
edit:
BTW, I also like WoodlandPro(Carlton) chain, but imo, Stihl makes the best chain. I use both. Carlton for beater duty, Stihl for good stuff. Any chain will work as long as the specs match(gauge, pitch(3/8 lopro, This IS NOT the same as regular 3/8 ), drive link count).
imo 15'' would be the maximum for a 40cc saw.
It's a weaker saw so why make it any weaker by having a long bar.
Depends. The 18" bar worked ok, and for occasional use, you could even bury it with acceptable results. For a homeowner that isn't an enthusiast, it's a pretty good option. I agree a 16" bar is better, but I keep an 18" b&c in the case just in case. I already had it, so might as well, and it can sometimes be useful.
Quote from: ManjiSann on October 19, 2019, 08:05:07 AM
Deacon, welcome to the forum!
I googled the CS400 and it looks like it uses the A041 tail mount. When searching for a bar, no matter the manufacturer, make sure it has the correct tail mount or it may not fit your saw.
The above said, why do you want a shorter bar?
I'll try and distill my experience and you can make of it what you will. I bought a Poulan Pro 50cc chainsaw that comes stock with a 20" bar. It worked fine for limbing and cutting firewood so long as the chain was kept sharp and I wasn't trying to speed cut through anything large. However I found when I went to cut down a large willow tree and had to use the full length of the bar it was hard to keep the rpms up and cut with any speed, I had to go slow. It worked and the tree went down fine. If all I had to do was a tree here and there or several chords of firewood a year I think it would have been just fine as it was. I did put a 16" bar on it as I had read it would do better with the shorter length and I will say it pulled it with more authority but if I tried to really use the dogs and push it through the cut I could still stop the chain. I am a unrepentant tinkerer so I tend to not leave things alone even if they are fine and always wonder how it could be made better.
So with the above in mind, if you're using the saw for a bit of firewood or the occasional cleanup and don't NEED a different bar size you can leave it as is and be fine. If you're like me and you just want to see the difference and don't mind spending the money then a shorter bar may be the ticket. I wonder if a 14" bar wouldn't be a better pairing for a 40cc saw though. To me dropping bar size by only 2" I wonder what the actual gains would be.
I only have experience with the Oregon bars but so far I think it's a solid piece of kit. Unless you're a logger using your saw 8+ hours a day all week I think you'd be hard pressed to wear one out if you're using it correctly. I also like Oregon's chains. Again, I only have experience with that brand but I haven't felt a need to try a different brand.
Another thing to keep in mind is the chains that come with these homeowner saws are usually a "safety" chain or low kickback chain and in my experience they don't tend to cut as quickly or in my opinion as well. Depending on your comfort level you may want to look at a different chain, one that doesn't have the rakers bent over like Shamoo's dorsal fin but are straight up. You'll notice a world of difference in the speed of the cut but the trade off being you supposedly have a higher chance of kick back. I wonder how often it's not the bar length but the chain that makes the difference on these little saws?
Keep in mind I've only owned chainsaws for about 4 months so I am not trying to pass myself off as someone who knows anything, just relating my thoughts on my journey so far.
Brandon
Appreciate the well written and thought response, Which Oregon bar did you use(PRO-AM, Pro Lite and Double Guardbar)? and or whats the differences between the 3? I've looked at the website and read the descriptions but being new to chainsaw bars can be a little confusing.
I do have and use quite often a Dewalt 20V electric chainsaw which I replaced the stock bar and chain with a 14" Oregon bar and chain combo and wife and I both LOVE that little chainsaw. Were currently building a house on which we purchased 16 acres and were in the slow process of clearing our treeline for a fence to be installed next year.
Again good response, thanks.
Quote from: lxskllr on October 19, 2019, 08:08:59 AM
I got a WoodlandPro for mine. Price is good, and it appears to be at least the equal of the stock bar, if not better.
edit:
BTW, I also like WoodlandPro(Carlton) chain, but imo, Stihl makes the best chain. I use both. Carlton for beater duty, Stihl for good stuff. Any chain will work as long as the specs match(gauge, pitch(3/8 lopro, This IS NOT the same as regular 3/8 ), drive link count).
I was hoping you would respond as Ive read many of your other post prior to signing up and you own the same saw.
This is a partial post you did back in February 11th "While researching what people think of the chain I ran across a Tsumura bar for the same price I paid for the WoodlandPro :^D Oh well. The WP bar seems alright. It looks at least as good as my HomeDepot echo branded bar, and ~$15 cheaper, but the proof is in the cutting. If anyone else is interested in a Tsumura bar (supposedly)compatible with small consumer saws like echo and Poulan, the link I found is here...
https://archerplus.com/collections/guide-bars/products/16-tsumura-guide-bar-repl-echo-poulan-efco160sdea041-3-8lp-050-57dl-wildthing
I believe this is a fairly new webshop by an ebay seller that deals primarily in archer chain. I have no experience, but others seem happy with their ebay purchases.
That's the bar I would have gotten had I seen it earlier. "
Why would you have chosen the TSUMURA ? Its listed as $22.50 free shipping and the Arbormax is listed as $29.99. Do you think ones made better then the other ?
As far as 16" chains go the Woodland Pro chains are $14 , Oregon chains $16 and the Stihl chains $21 on the site that sells WoodLand Pros. SO not a big difference in price if one chain is going to cut better or last longer.
I know many questions but also - will all the different type of chains listed fit on the different bars?
Again many thanks for any useful information.
As stated above in my post been really happy with the Orgeon chain and bar I put on my dewalt 20V, cuts fantastic for what it is and the chain keeps on going.
I haven't used Tsumura, but they have a very good reputation amongst serious cutters. Japanese made, and hard steel. The steel is perhaps a bit too hard, cause I've seen some complaints regarding chipping, but I don't have first hand experience. Had I purchased that bar, it would have been my reasonably priced introduction to the brand, and I could have then considered them for my other saws.
I like Stihl chain due to the hardness. Assuming you aren't strapped for cash, $21 doesn't sound terrible to me, and I'd pay the premium to have Stihl chain. Some people don't like the hardness. It makes it a little harder to file, but it isn't all that difficult. You could expect to spend a little more time sharpening, and go through files a little quicker, but it isn't enough to register on /my/ Care-O-Meter.
Carlton chain is between Oregon and Stihl for hardness. It's a little more primitive, with nothing fancy on the drive links for oiling or anything like that. I like it due to the price, and that it's harder than Oregon chain.
I don't like Oregon chain. It's just too soft for my tastes. Plenty of people use and enjoy it, so maybe it's just me.
I buy all my chain by the reel, and make my own loops. You can save some money that way, and if you keep your eyes open on ebay, you can find particularly good deals. My new Stihl dealer sells reels for $333/100'. I find that far better than my old dealer which sold the same thing for $570. I'm currently well stocked though, so I don't have to worry about it for awhile.
tl;dr
Can't help you on the bars, but I will say WoolandPro is at least as good as stock. Very happy with the purchase.
My suggestion on chain would be to buy a loop of each, and see which you like best. It's a consumable item, so you'll need more than one eventually anyway. You can then compare them side by side, to see which you prefer. Pretty much zero risk aside from having to put up money up front.
From the sound of it you won't use enough chain to make buying bulk worthwhile. Chain sizes are standardized so any brand will fit any bar as long as the pitch and guage match and the type of chain is the same. For instance the 3/8lp which is probably what you have is not interchangeable with standard 3/8.
Thanks for all the input guys.
Think Im gonna order the 16" Woodland Pro Arbormax bar and chain combo and an extra 16" Oregon 91VXL056G (https://www.baileysonline.com/oregon-16-chainsaw-chain-loop-91vxl-56-drive-links-91vxl056g-orf-91vxl056g.html) chain along with a Woodland Pro Chainsaw bag ( found a review on youtube and seems like a nice bag and much lighter then the Echo hard case which would take up much more room in the back of my Jeep.) I'll throw the 18" bar in the bag and use if I need for the bigger stuff.
Its a different topic but is there a big difference between the 0.050" gauge and the 0.043" gauge (think this is called narrow kerf)?
No first hand experience, but I think the narrow kerf is supposed to give a smoother cut. The cost would be a little less durability, especially if you throw a chain.
The .050 and .043 which only Stihl uses afaik are the same chain except for the thickness of the drive links, the .050 will be stronger.