looking at used 2012 WM LT35HD. Has 400 hours and asking 16k. Looks like it has been taken care of and used regularly.
Also considering a new WM LT40 with Diesel, debarker, lubemizer.
Cost is 12k more.
will use to cut my own lumber to use and sell. at some point may do customer work part-time on weekends.
my thinking is the LT40 would be better if plan to own and use a long-time, particularly if doing some customer work. LT 40 can be upgrades such as board return, accuset II, others. (not sure I'd spend $ for these options, however).
I've read on this forum that the head of the 40 is heavier duty, along with the greater log capacity.
Any insight would be appreciated, particularly if you have run both mills.
Thank you in advance for your advice.
Welcome to the forum mjancius. A new LT40HD equipped as you described will run you about $32k plus tax, with the current promo that WM has going on right now.
I've seen the board return in action but do not have that option available for my ancient lt40. It looks well worth the money just in time savings.
Can't tell you how to value $12K, but if you start doing business, esp. portable sawing, with your mill you won't regret having an LT40. Super is better. Of all the options on my mill I'd rank the board return last. It can make things go faster but if the customer is pulling lumber probably better to let him do that. Board coming forward to his hands with 1000# behind it is living on the edge. If you are going to be portable and getting a new mill get the FAOs. Night and day vs. the old style jacks.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, mjancius. I have no LT35 experience so my vote goes to the LT40. Options such as debarker, accuset, and lubemizer are well worth the $$$.
I removed my board dragback for some of the above reasons. That plus a gained a couple of inches in the height of the throat. No regrets.
I think the breadth of experience by LT40 owners is unfairly biased against the LT35 since it has been in production for almost 30 years or more, and the LT35 just came out in 2012.
I think this topic has been kicked around on here before and the majority always seems to sway the argument.
I am very happy with my LT35 and I believe there are several others that are also happy with theirs and perhaps they will chime in.
The only thing "heavier duty" on the LT 40 is the sawing head allowing for the greater capacity and board drag back. The bands are actually the same. Here are the specs from woodmizer with professional operators on creamy logs with an edger inline. The simple set that comes on the LT40 is also the same simple set on the LT35 unless of course you choose the Accuset 2 System @$2,595.00.
LT35
Log Capacity32" dia. x 21' long
Maximum Width of Cut23"
Production CapabilityUp to 500 bd ft/hr
LT40
Log Capacity36" dia. x 21' long
Maximum Width of Cut28"
Production CapabilityUp to 550 bd ft/hr
So you can see the specs are not that far apart and to me, not worth 12k or even 4 or 5 k. That price difference would buy you a nice piece of support equipment like a tractor, skid steer, edger or several other pieces of equipment like a planer, kiln, molder, etc.
The debarker crowd will undoubtedly say that you just can't function without it, but perhaps they have not ever functioned without one so their view is slanted. I can tell you that I can do just fine without it. You don't have to saw into dirt or mud; just rotate the log, that's what the log turner is for.
My 2 cents, very capable machine and you will not regret it; I haven't.
16' x 32" red oak. Another local sawyer called me to mill it because it would not fit on his norwood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25990/2014-05-22_13_46_53.jpg)
Or see my little project here.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,73938.0.html
Good insights. Thank you. What is FAOs? Is this an option?
Fine adjust outriggers, they will mount up to the LT35. WM shows them @ $999 on a new mill, but I think they're about 1200 if you buy them separately. It's the same frame as the LT40.
I respectfully disagree thechknhwk. Not that the LT35 is not a good sawmill but with the limitations.
The smaller log handling capacity; 36" vs 32" and 28" vs 23" would be a deal breaker for me. I encountered at least a dozen logs within the past couple of months that I could not have sawn. Not good.
Regarding the turning the log to avoid dirt; dirt should not determine the opening or any other face opening. The log determines that and the quality of the lumber that you produce will suffer if the correct face is not opened. A blade will still be dulled somewhat exiting the log through dirt. Anytime that I have dirt on the backside of a log, it gets cleaned off before I saw.
Just another insight to consider. FAO's are Fine Adjust Outriggers and are screw type outrigger options to replace the standard outriggers.
I won't dwell on all the things I wish I had, just working within my limitations.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, mjancius!
I have a LT35Hyd now, used to have a LT30, but I have never owned or run an LT40. Sawing is a part of my business, not the core of my business, at the time of purchase I could not pencil out the extra investment for a 40 or Super. My 35 has paid for itself, and hasn't had any major issues. All in all I have only praise for my machine and its manufacturer.
I think many folks in the Orange camp (at least here on the FF) would agree that if you plan to go on the road custom sawing, an LT40 (and better yet a super) is a solid choice, with a 50 or 70 being icing on the cake if you can swing it. However, as a sideline, or lower production or part-time operation, a LT35Hyd is a good machine at a lower price. If I was to change my focus to portable, full-time custom sawing I would upgrade to a 40 Super without a moments hesitation: more horsepower, faster cut speed, faster hydraulics. Sitting here on the farm cutting custom orders and making value added materials I am fine with my 35.
Again, very helpful comments - all of them. It helps to understand different view points.
Thanks again for taking your time to help me think this through.
I would have to say, that I have so much to learn about this whole topic, including Forestry as a whole. But I really enjoy this work and think that it is great what you all do ... not too many folks have these skills from what I observe.
Considering how well WM sawmills hold their values,,, it's really hard to make the wrong choice.
every mill has limitations :) you just need to decide if the added capacity is worth the extra money. my opinon ,the specs are close enough to save the money and go with the 35. you can always up grade later if your business requires the move.
good luck and welcome to the forum
I don't see why a majority thinks the "production" is so much lower on the LT35 compared to a base LT40 like you just NEED it if you're going to saw for customers. Yes, the head design is different & smaller, but the band is the same length and the standard LT40 has 2 more HP, TWO! And some of the older ones have LESS. Even woodmizer's specs state the LT40 as only 10% more productive under ideal operating conditions.
Quote from: thechknhwk on April 26, 2015, 06:45:57 PM
I don't see why a majority thinks the "production" is so much lower on the LT35 compared to a base LT40 like you just NEED it if you're going to saw for customers. Yes, the head design is different & smaller, but the band is the same length and the standard LT40 has 2 more HP, TWO! And some of the older ones have LESS. Even woodmizer's specs state the LT40 as only 10% more productive under ideal operating conditions.
More times than not, its the sawyer that makes the biggest difference in production. That being said, if all things are equal except for the sawmill, the one with the largest capacity(HP and log size) is going to have a definite advantage over a smaller one.
Hi I have a 35 hyd and a 40 super the 35 is great little machine and actually cut better lumber than the 40 but I blame that on the desiel on the 40 and the 25hp gas on the 35. the capacity is bigger on the 40 but actually there's only like 1" diff between the guides so don't matter how large it raises I can't really say the 40 will saw much bigger wood now . for sure if I had no options I'd get the 40 but what's so slow about the 35 is the hyd speed which will be no faster on the 40 unless u get the super the 35 will make good lumber but don't expect no more than 300 ft an hr consistanly in good logs not saying it won't saw more but that's a good average we get about 1500 out of ours a day and 2500 on the super a day hope this helps both are fine machines
Part time sawing, LT 35. Full time, LT 40. Period.
Well since I have owned both, currently the 40 super, I think its time I chime in. The lt-35 is a great mill, and does what it is rated to do very well. I had the updated debarked on mine, so the 2012 may be lacking in that dept. My debarker added to blade life immensely on that mill. I waited 5 months after I received my mill before I got the debarker installed.
The only real difference I see in production, with a one man show, is sawing speed. Sure the hydraulics are faster, accuset 2 and pattern mode are nice, but simple set works got the job done. At the other end of the day, my paycheck on portable jobs was the same. The 40 does have some noteworthy advantages, hence why there is one in my barn, but depending on your needs, the 35 would suit you fine. A guy can always upgrade if need be, a man almost never downgrades.
i have a 2014 lt35hyd with the debarker. i like it alot. i have never run a 40 so i can not compare the two.
If you have the spare cash then get the 40. I would have. but i got the 35 and have no monthly note. if the time arises that i need more production then i will upgrade.
Quote from: thechknhwk on April 25, 2015, 07:45:21 PM
Fine adjust outriggers, they will mount up to the LT35. WM shows them @ $999 on a new mill, but I think they're about 1200 if you buy them separately. It's the same frame as the LT40.
I just paid $1440 for the 6 FAOs and wrench before sales tax And there wasn't shipping on that because I picked them up. Add about $200 for shipping. So to get them on a new mill for $1000 is a bargain, saves $600. They are SOOOOOOO nice I can't say it too many times.
Quote from: Magicman on April 25, 2015, 07:06:17 PM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, mjancius. I have no LT35 experience so my vote goes to the LT40. Options such as debarker, accuset, and lubemizer are well worth the $$$.
I removed my board dragback for some of the above reasons. That plus a gained a couple of inches in the height of the throat. No regrets.
First off, owned neither. However, I've had a local dude saw logs for me with his LT40. My thoughts are:
1) Customer (me) can off-load boards, so don't even consider the dragback offloaders, unless you are in a pure productions mode without assistance.
2) Larger cut is SUPER CRUCIAL. Invariably, you find logs BIGGER and better. Cutting huge logs into WIDE slabs is really where a custom sawyer can make money vs. production mills.
3) Debarker is really nice to keep the wear and tear down on your main blade and keep your production up.
Here's my two penny's worth on this. ;D
To cut your own lumber either mills will do the job, the little difference in the two as to size of logs is very little. A 32'' log is a good size log, and you can still cut the 36'' log if you cut access for the guide roller to pass on the outside as we all do for larger logs on a lt40... If you are going to saw for yourself... don't buy the largest log you can find, they are nice but very troublesome to saw up, they are hard on the machine no matter wich you have. I would rather saw a whack of 20'' logs then a whack of 30'' logs for myself, much easier to deal with all around.
As far as dirt and debarckers go, I have no debarcker on my mill, never had one or tried one... I also don't have access to resharp, so I have the honor of resharpening my blades. That being said, I have well over two million board feet sawed with my mill and I have always tried to get clean logs.. but... it does not happen all the time. I try to get the dirt off if I can, sometimes this just won't happen time being an issue. I won't enter a log with the dirt facing the blade, if you do you will be draging the dirt all the way through the log with the cutting edge of the blade, sure way of dulling the blade right quick, if you exit the blade in the dirt( as long as it is not frozen) you will be knocking the dirt out of the way, your blade will stay sharp a whole lot longer... You may not be choosing the best face, but not all logs have a ''best', face, some logs it just does not matter where you will open them. When you will be sawing the one special log that really needs to be opened up on the special face do it, but just remember that it is the slab you are really taking off, once the slabe is gone and you have a clean cant, you can always turn the cant back to the good face and get that ''special', face cut. It is always best to cut for the best face when starting the cut, but it is not a prerequisite to sawing any log.
I would go with the 35 and "learn" how to operate the machine, if you like it and get the feeling you need to go out on the road you can always upgrade to a 40 or whatever your heart and pockets can afford. For me it would be a $ decision and then work it from there.
Keep in mind that both mills will cut great lumber and I doubt that you will cut any more lumber, working the mill alone, with one or the other. At 400hrs the 35 is just about broken in.
Marcel :)
The 35 does have a debarker.
It seems that some think you can't get one. I have one and it works great.
I know it can have one, but if it don't and one choses to not get one, it should not be a show stopper. There are a whole whack of saws out there with no debarkers and do well.