Hello all!!! Beginner sawyer here...I slabbed 2" thick black walnut a couple days ago...I usually let it sit under the barn roof for a week or two before moving it into the redneck kiln...I also sawed a few yesterday...today, at the end of the day, I went down to look around and was socked to see several cracked, and I mean BAD!!! One is 3 foot long from the end, an inch wide, another 2 feet long 3/8 wide, and so on...it was 82 here with a rh of 40 percent, and this is the first time this has happened... I'm thinking uncontrollable stresses in the log, log sitting too long... 6 months, but other slabs from same lot, no problem... Or now that the heat has hit they just started to dry too fast...HELP!!! Thank u for having me!!
Hello all...newbie here...thanks for having me...I used to think I was a novice, but reading posts before becoming a member clearly indicates my beginner level...anyhow, I slabbed some 2" black walnut yesterday, some book matches, nice stuff, from some logs I took late fall...I know, they've been sitting too long, but in the past few weeks, I cut many from the same lot, and haven't have this issue...anyhow, beautiful yesterday, when checked on late today, huge end cracks...I mean 3 feet long, one inch wide...some 2 feet, 3/8 inch, and so on...I usually cut, allow under barn roof for a week or so, then on to the redneck kiln....temp here 82, 40 percent humidity... I'm thinking one of 3 things...uncontrollable tension in the log or preexisting condition...tried to start to dry too quick....now I forgot the third...but please educate and opinionate me...thank u!!!
I'm betting on drying to fast. But I don't know any thing about black walnut
I am suspecting the slab that cracked that badly was one from a large limb and not a log from the main stem. Or if it was the main stem, it was a leaning tree. That is just a guess tho.
I also believe that it was from growth stress as well. I have had slabs crack as they are still lying on the mill bed.
If you aren't in a big hurry, next time leave the tree after you fall it for a few days to a week with the limbs on it. This actually can help prevent checking. Theory of this is that the limbs with leaves will pull moisture and start the drying process earlier.
Quote from: CCC4 on May 08, 2015, 09:00:15 PM
If you aren't in a big hurry, next time leave the tree after you fall it for a few days to a week with the limbs on it. This actually can help prevent checking. Theory of this is that the limbs with leaves will pull moisture and start the drying process earlier.
i know that will help with bark pull. i am betting on the leaner theory.
Having heart center, not having the ends treated, wind can be contributors also.
It sounds like you possibly opened the wrong face of the log.
I'm going to guess it was an issue with the original log. Stress, heart crack, damage from falling etc.
Drying stress isn't going to pull it apart that fast, no matter what the weather is like.
Not much you can do now (and probably wasn't much you could have done yesterday either). I would just carry on and air dry them, then see what you can recover once it's dry and stops moving.
The leaves pulling the moisture out thing - I know all the old timers around here would say to fell your firewood trees when the leaves are all out full in beginning of summer and by fall when you need firewood the leaves would be falling off the downed trees all shriveled up. Buck it up and burn it in the same day. Works well, so the moisture certainly gets out of the wood alot faster that way. I've done it this way.
I love old timers. They know stuff.
Thanks guys, lots of good stuff...seems like internal unknown log stresses is the winner, and most logical...I agree it should have happened overnight no matter what the weather...I didn't take the tree down, so there are some unknowns...these huge cracks ran where the end of the log already had some checking...probably from drying, which internal stresses complicated once sawed...one guy said he has em crack while on the bed...funny thing was, I thought I heard a loud "crack" while sawing one slab, but didn't think of it at the time...just sucks to lose a days pay overnight!!! Well, guess the most I'll get out of the to salvage is turning blanks now...I know medium size on up oak is good for this, and its best just to stay away from the heart, saw around it, and use it for firewood... But if this is also a high risk area for walnut, I'll stay away from it too, despite the increased value of book matches...
I have not had too much of a problem with growth stress cracks or pith cracks in walnut. Cherry will crack if you turn your head for just a few seconds :).
Got any pics of what has happened?
If it's a check up the pith, then you should still be able to rip 2 good boards out of the slab. Not quite as valuable, but at least not a total loss.
If it's done something more crazy than that, then the log had serious issues before you started.
Guarantee that the split is with the center line of the tree. The key was slabbing. Loggers here will hold off on cutting walnut this time of year because of splitting.
If you are going cut try to saw the center out if possible to have all stress in one direction. I just had Poplar do the same on some barn siding.
Back to the subject of Ole Timers and moisture. I had an Ole Timer tell me that moisture levels were different on light nights vs. dark nights. In other words, moisture in a standing tree changes with phases of the moon. I have not researched it, but has anyone ever heard this? Just curious.
Pic failed to go twice, gave up...definitely pith crack, so I will rip them, salvage what I can, and maybe get some turning blanks too...I can't not saw them this time of year, as they came down in fall, and if I wait much longer, they'll b junk...and yes, I've heard of the time of day and moon phases theory, but haven't had time to research it yet...a Spanish fellow looking to buy wood off me the other day said something about that and the waning moon...guess I'll get back to that one...he makes instruments, and showed me pics of guitars he made...pretty awesome, no doubt a lot of skill...unfortunately one of the 3" slabs I cut was for him to make a guitar...gotta cut another one...
Personally, I would discount that. I have seen the available moisture in the ground have the greatest effect on how much is in the log. After a rain, I have seen water literally run out of a felled tree.
Opening the wrong log face without regard to existing heart checks will increase the odds for slab failure. Some species and some individual logs are more forgiving than others, but the risk is always there.
Thanks magicman...so if I have existing log end heartwood checks, will trimming the log back to a clean face help minimize this, or am I already set up to fail? And elaborate on "opening the wrong face of the log", its new to me...I agree with you on the moon theory...old wise men have wise facts, but wise tales as well...
Cherry is one of the worst species for heart/pith check. Here is a thread that I did several years ago showing how I minimized the the amount of "lost" lumber when sawing two such Cherry logs. Log Setup (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,43129.msg623380.html#msg623380)
Quote...old wise men have wise facts, but wise tales as well...
a good "old saying".. ;D (like the old wive's tales too)
bkaimwood
Couple things.. regards adding pics, they need to be in your computer in .jpg format. Then you can find a good primer on the "Home" index page near the end of the listing. Pics get uploaded through the "Click here to add Photos to post" line under this box. Another window will pop up to "upload pic" with a browse function. Once loaded, then use the "My gallery" menu tab to get to your pic in your album.
The other thing is adding your location to your profile. If you've noticed reading other posts, it is helpful to have an idea where members that are posting in response to questions, etc. are located... even to which country they are from. To add your location, go to your name, that will take you to your profile that you can edit and add your location.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Will enjoy your participation.
bt
QuoteLoggers here will hold off on cutting walnut this time of year because of splitting.
I would really like to read more on this. Can you (anyone) point me to some discussion on this topic on the forum? My experience has been as a firewood cutter only up to now. I was going to start taking some walnut for saw logs this past winter, but equipment issues delayed that project. Now my equipment is ready to go, but it sounds like I should delay cutting.
Not much evidence to support this "theory" IMO, but if there is something substantial "in writing", I'd be interested seeing a reference.
Quote from: Sixacresand on May 09, 2015, 08:01:05 AM
I had an Ole Timer tell me that moisture levels were different on light nights vs. dark nights. In other words, moisture in a standing tree changes with phases of the moon.
Old wives tale. A tree is a closed, living, system. The moisture content remains relatively constant, just like the moisture content in your body does. The only thing that the Moon affects is the tide, lovers, and the murder rate :).
Quote from: WDH on May 09, 2015, 08:23:48 PM
The only thing that the Moon affects is the tide, lovers, and the murder rate :).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/NativeAmericanFullMoonNames.jpg)
Let's don't kill da Goat, even if it did grow sheep horns. :D
Thanks a million for the link to your sawing cherry logs with pith cracks, Magicman....very simple but effective.
Made perfect sense...these walnut logs are the first experience I've had with pith cracks. I slabbed a couple logs yesterday, one was a 20" black walnut with pith cracks...it had a plus sign in the pith, but one clearly the bad one that would run...I cut parallel to the crack, and once I got to the 2 slabs the pith defect was in, watched the small end crack run 4 foot down the slab AS I CUT IT!!! As I fed the blade through, the crack progressed at an equal rate, one I got 1/3 of the way down...you could hear it cracking over the saw, and you can't hear anything over my saw!!! Wish I would have had video of it. I have a pile of logs 40 feet wide, 8 or 10 feet high to saw, and can see that this issue will be in a significant quantity of them. Thanks for helping to minimize my losses...if you get bored, bring your mill down...I can't see ever catching up!!!
Welcome to the forum.
I agree that your complete profile woud be helpful
regarding moisture content WDH is absolutely correct.
bkaimwood
Quite unusual for walnut. More info, with at least pics, to see what you are faced with.
As well, update the profile.
Too many mystery's being presented to have a good understanding of your dilemma.