I've got a chance to buy a Wadkin 4 sider planer/moulder.
its a 9 head one, so I guess 7 heads and 2 universals at the back.
I've not really been around these things much so anyone got any feedback on this sort of machine and what to ask or look at in them?
Cheers
Justin
Hi Justin,
I had a Wadkins unit years ago but mine was only 4 heads. I didn't realize that they even made a 9 head unit. Can't quite figure how 9 heads were used but I bet there are lots of people on this site with more knowledge than I have in regards to moulders. I was satisfied with my unit but I don't think that it made as clean a cut as a Weinig.
Parts would be the only issue for me. They are good moulders. A nine head moulder will also be very heavy and pull a lot of FLA's. Make sure your service can handle it. Dust collection would be key also. Of course all heads most of the time won't be used, but plan on at least running five.
Hey, sorry I don't know the rules on posting a link to another forum, but I have a good one for you!
The people that frequent the Vintage section at the Canadian wood working forum are extremely knowledgeable especially when it comes to Wadkin. I suggest you ask any questions you might have over there.
BTW Wadkin machines are very well built!
https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forumdisplay.php?53-Vintage-Power-Tools (https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forumdisplay.php?53-Vintage-Power-Tools)
Some forums will "pull the plug" on any links to other forums... considered bad etiquette, as I understand.
Put the link in a PM to the member and avoid the potential "violation" if it might be one.
Depends a bit on which model Wadkin it is as to what I'd say.
Here's the thing: Wadkin build a serious product and they were built to last forever. And they mostly will.
Things to look for on a 9 header would be the condition of the bed, because a 9 header is a very serious piece of equipment that's probably done a lot of work... You don't buy one of them to run a couple thousand feet of timber a year.
If the bed is okay, and the motors run then it's a goer... You can rebuild a bed but that's not a small undertaking, spindles & motors etc are comparatively easy with common sized parts. Also look to see if it's an indexed bed or a flat bed... Index beds run a groove cutter on the number one bottom that lines up with a raised index "key" on the bed that is supposed to stop the workpiece moving as it runs through the machine. It will let you straighten as you mould, but can also drive you nuts because if the workpiece jumps off that index then everything gets screwed up. A lot of the older 9 headers floating around in oz were set up for running Oregon and had the index.... It's fine in soft timber but not a good idea in eucalypt type hardwoods in my experience.
My opinion is that you really need to think on what you need the machine for. This is not a short run machine, you don't set this one up to run just a few thousand linear at a time a couple of times a year. It will do serious volumes at high speed ... But setup times are long, and there is a learning curve to knowing how to get them properly tuned, and you can't just put anyone on the machine to either run it or maintain it.
A long time ago a guy told me to buy a $60k moulder that needed a $20k per annum man to operate, not a $20 k moulder that needed a $60k man to drive it. One of the better bits of advice I ever got but I had to learn it the hard way.
Not that I want to put you off... They are dammed near indestructible and this machine will have a huge output capacity. But you really need to own one to own one, if you know what I mean.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
And LongtimeLurker, very sound advice.
Ive been thinking hard about the same thing, buy a newer simple and more versatile machine VS this larger output type machine.
We will be running more and more flooring and decking through it, but I also know we would not outgrow it..
Hardwood flooring would be our main item through it, softer euc's.
The bed was done by the previous owner, so it is said to cut very square and true.
Im still awaiting photos on the unit to see the condition of it.
I have just bought a large dust cyclone and several large fans so im pretty set on that side of things.
Cheers
Justin
Depends how much newer and simpler you're looking at, and how much tooling comes with the 9 header.
Tooling is a big thing - you think you're putting in a moulder to run T&G, pencil round and the odd run of VJ and next thing you know you're doing custom architrave and skirting boards for heritage listed refurbishments, and somewhere in there you start doing regular runs of DAR scantling timber as well. :D
I've played with vintage Robinsons and Wadkins, and wouldn't reccomend it to anyone. You just about need to be a fitter to keep them going, and they were built in a time when time was cheaper to buy then it is now.
I've played with older Wadkin and Weinigs from the 80's or so - they are well built and provided you start with a machine in fair order you find you can maintain them without too much drama. I'm assuming that what you're looking at is one of those and if you get it at the right price with a room full of tooling then its hard to go wrong.
Today I'd be looking at an SCM or Fullpower 6 header with the electric sizing. If you have a couple of sets of cutter blocks its a 5 minute change to go from running T&G to decking to DAR - undo one bolt, remove the block off the spindle, drop the next block on, tighten the bolt, run a board through, measure the board, enter the offset between screen value and measured size into the system and it compensates and--- off you go. Want to change from running 100x 25 DAR to 250 x 75 DAR: ten seconds to change the numbers on that screen. Beats the hell out of running a board, measuring, climbing into the guts of the thing to change the head positions by a couple thou, run a board, measure, climb in and adjust it back a couple thou...
I know three guys with Fullpower moulders and they all are happy with them. There's nothing wrong with the Taiwanese or Japanese or Korean gear - half the price of Wadkin or Weinig, twice the quality of the el cheapo chinese machines. I eye off one of those little logosol 4 headers sometimes but - I'm sure its well made and all but I see them as a cabinet shop machine, not a flooring and decking cutter in a eucalypt sawmill. As with sawbenches theres no substitute for sheer weight when it comes to keeping the thing from skipping around the floor.
But yeah... with a second hand machine I'd be looking at the amount of tooling that comes with it. Tooling is expensive, and the more of it you have the more work you can get.
^
Good point about the tooling.
Thanks for the input guys.
The machine is a wadkin GA220 with 7 heads plus two universals at the back.
15 or 10hp motors all around.
Comes with a bunch of tooling for T&G flooring, decking making trellis, straight planning etc..
I've done a deal with the guy and will get it transported pretty soon.
If anyone's got any tips on running these beast's please let me know!
Cheers
Justin
Nothing you don't already know I'd suspect:
Look to your footings, make sure it's mounted level and mounted well.
Look at your infeed setup, ideally chase up a sissors lift so you can drop a pack on it and just keep flipping each board out the pack onto the infeed but initially at least think on how packs arrive at the infeed side and how boards get from pack to infeed table. They run smoother if material flow is constant, with each board butted up to the last.
Look at your out feed side, you really need to be able to sort several ways at that point... By grade on flooring runs, plus there's always a percentage that grade out due to inherent defect in the timber or from hit and miss.
Start thinking about where the end matcher is going to go...
Quote from: longtime lurker on June 01, 2015, 06:00:27 AM
Nothing you don't already know I'd suspect:
Look to your footings, make sure it's mounted level and mounted well.
Look at your infeed setup, ideally chase up a sissors lift so you can drop a pack on it and just keep flipping each board out the pack onto the infeed but initially at least think on how packs arrive at the infeed side and how boards get from pack to infeed table. They run smoother if material flow is constant, with each board butted up to the last.
Look at your out feed side, you really need to be able to sort several ways at that point... By grade on flooring runs, plus there's always a percentage that grade out due to inherent defect in the timber or from hit and miss.
Start thinking about where the end matcher is going to go...
Good advice I think.
Material flow is always a pain.
One thing you might be able to shed any light on.
Can you run one of these inside a container?
I need to build a new timber shed to put this in, but would like to use before hand, i.e cut a hole in either end of the container and feed wood in and out...
Tempted then to put the container inside the shed and noise insulation and dust containment...
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Justin
Quote from: JustinW_NZ on June 02, 2015, 01:40:32 AM
Good advice I think.
Material flow is always a pain.
One thing you might be able to shed any light on.
Can you run one of these inside a container?
I need to build a new timber shed to put this in, but would like to use before hand, i.e cut a hole in either end of the container and feed wood in and out...
Tempted then to put the container inside the shed and noise insulation and dust containment...
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Justin
Mm, do-able maybe, might need to chop another hole for the dust extraction. Noise would be the biggest issue, standing in there with it might be a bit tough.