We just sold some land and are deciding how to invest the proceeds. The stock market and the state of the US dollar have me more than a little concerned. We are considering gold and silver. I don't like the fact that I have to pay a substantial fee to both buy and sell the metal. I also just don't know enough about the growth in value potential. Looking at the charts for the past two years does not give me a lot of faith. I'm going to study on this as much as I can but I really don't even know where to start. This does give me a good tax exempt way to pass wealth to my daughter. I'd like to hear suggestions from some of you that know more about this than I do. I'm just totally ignorant about gold and silver.
Qweaver, ignorance can be eliminated. It takes lots of study, thought, study and lots and lots of research. You will never be sure of making the right decision. If you get it figured out for sure PM me, then you and I will become multimillionaires.
You might invest in gold mine companies if you think that is safer. You really have to study them also.
I understand your plight. But there are no guarantees, just like starting a business.
The "metal" market is very fickle. :P Be careful.
The only ones that I can depend upon is the gold in my teeth and silver in my hair.
please let us know how you do my money is all in old iron ;D MM that was a funny remark about the silver ;D
I would rather invest in real-estate but I guess that is what you are getting rid of. Best of luck!
The best investment in the world is land, IMO.
It takes 10 acres to be considered a farm in my county and the farm taxes are a little over a dollar an acre if you show your producing something like trees, produce, hay, etc.
But the big pay off is the enjoyment you get from working your land that you will surly pass on to someone in time....that my friend is a fact. :)
So I would try to find land at a cheaper price than you sold yours for.
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on June 14, 2015, 05:23:13 PM
The best investment in the world is land, IMO.
It takes 10 acres to be considered a farm in my county and the farm taxes are a little over a dollar an acre if you show your producing something like trees, produce, hay, etc.
So I would try to find land at a cheaper price than you sold yours for.
I've owned several types of land and I keep good records. I owned 10 lots in Texas and built a rental unit on two of them. When you consider the cost to buy the land, build the rental, maintain and make improvements, pay taxes, insurance, etc... we never made a profit on the rental and made very little profit selling the land after a hurricane destroyed the rental unit. And it was a lot of work. Much more work than investing in the stock market or buying and storing gold. I know that some folks do well with land...not me. I'm just looking for input from people that know about investing in metals.
Quote from: Qweaver on June 14, 2015, 06:35:47 PM
I'm just looking for input from people that know about investing in metals.
Buy logs. The ones around here are full of metal. :D
:D :D :D :D :D
I've seen some pretty outlandish claims about where gold is headed. A lot has to do with the sovereign debt of nations. There's a lot happening right now in a lot of different places that are going to have an effect on the value of your money.
I think you have to figure out how long you're going to hold it. Bonds stink now, and they're going to get worse. Interest rates are about to go up. When that happens, stocks will probably drop pretty hard. So, it would be worthwhile to have cash available to buy stocks when they are cheap. Only go into quality.
I would think that buying some gold and silver would be OK, but I wouldn't want to put all my money there. Liquidity can be a problem. After you buy it, what will you do with it? It may be pretty to look at, but it isn't very safe to keep in your house. Look at it as a way of diversifying your assets. One thing about gold, it won't go down to zero. But, it can get pretty cheap.
If you go the gold route, you'll have to be able to withstand market drawdowns, and there will be long periods where the performance just stinks. Buying any asset has an associated risk. As said, do a ton of research. Just remember that when everyone is selling, it's a good time to buy. We're not quite at that point.
For what it is worth I have talked to several people as recently as today seeing a severe correction in the market coming , and a sharp rise in gold associated. Me , I'm buying logs , and lots of them. Rob
the metal market has more room to go down faster,than raise slower :) the safest way is put it in money markets or c.d's you won't make much but,you won't lose any and depending how there termed you can acsess them quite readily.
Lots of good info on this thread. :)
I would say the silver market is probably bottomed since productions cost are around 18.00 per oz. But it could stay down for the next 20 yrs also. I have a little bit but not much. I am going with real estate. The stock market is rigged. You don't stand much of a chance.
I am concerned about the "substantial fee" for selling the metal that you are speaking of. I am not aware of any selling fee (other than the possibility of taxes) for selling gold or silver. I would love to be more educated on this this subject. Just some more food for thought is an IRA, and they allow the posession of precious metals as a part of the account if you wanted to research that as part of your quest.
when i clicked on link i was expecting walnut and cherry :D :D smiley_dunce
I have had a little gold and silver bullion for years. The price has gone up. But to sell it and pay the fees, plus it's a headache to sell. Investing in the market? I can't compete with the rich in the market. They tend to buy and sell when it's advantages and I get left with the aftermath and loses. On the other hand, when I got an inheritance, I bought raw land (2009 - 300+ acres) at a reduced price. Now the price has gone up. Plus I am improving the land. Plus I am in the process of starting to build my home there. Then I'll probably sell it for a substantial profit and buy a much smaller place (10-40 acres) along a river and retire from everything except fishing and chasing my wife around. I've never made any "profit" from any investment except real estate.
I did well with a gold mining stock a few years ago. I would take a hard look at an ETF to get exposure to gold. And then I would only invest 10% of my cash, maybe 20%, but no more then that. I sleep better with a diversified portfolio. All my money on one horse is gambling.
My issue with gold as an "investment" is that it doesn't generate an income as such. It may go up (and down) in value, but in reality over a long term it is pretty much tied to inflation. Maybe you can make money by buying low and selling high, but that relies on timing. If the price is low when you need to liquidate, sucks to be you.
Now there are other investments that actively generate income, even if it's passive earnings. Land you can grow stuff, or rent it out. Shares (good ones anyway) pay a dividend. Bonds etc pay interest. Logs you can saw into product you can sell. So over the long term you can either use that investment to live on, or reinvest it to grow your net worth.
But gold is really just a liability, effectively it costs you money, until you sell it.
QuoteI sleep better with a diversified portfolio. All my money on one horse is gambling.
100% agree on that one.
I'm no financial wiz but I see where I could have made some money with cars.
My graduation present from mom was the removal of all my junk cars/trucks. It cost her around 150 bucks to have the junkyard remove each vihicle. Now a days I could get 200-300 bucks for each!
Our 81 vw camper van sold for 3k around 5-10 yrs ago. Just saw same van same shape selling for 20k!
I know a guy who makes money buying/selling lead and I know battery core charges keep goinggoing up. Alot
IMHO I would not take any risks of losing it and be happy just to have it. Best wished
I'll toss my $.02 into this. Not saying I've got all the answers.
First, you mentioned a tax exempt way to pass wealth to your daughter. Not sure what the shysters selling precious metals told you, but it's not any more tax exempt than any other asset. For 2015, the estate tax exclusion is $5.43 million per individual. That means you and your wife can pass a combined $10.86 million without any estate tax. If you are above those limits, or think you might reach those limits, then you really need to get an accountant, an attorney, and a financial planner involved ASAP.
The best way to minimize risk is a diversified portfolio. A little of this, a little of that, some will increase in value while others lose value, hopefully the entire portfolio will outpace inflation. Your investment horizon also matters. If you've got 10-15 years, one of the best investments is an S&P 500 index fund. The downside risk is the market is currently bouncing off new highs. I've been waiting for the predicted correction for the last year, but I've been moving some money into it every quarter, and at least so far, I'm up pretty good. The concept is called dollar cost averaging. If we get a 10% correction, then I can move more money into it. I'm not sure what the stock market is going to do in the next year, or the next 5 years, but over a 10 year horizon it's probably going to do quite well.
The only use for precious metals and jewels is in a SHTF scenario, and I'm thinking along the lines of Jews bribing their way out of Europe during the Holocaust. Personally, I don't see things getting that bad. Investing in the 500 largest publicly traded US firms is likely to generate a better return.
Wow, there are a lot of well stated financial plans in response to my question here. I'm not a financial wiz but I have done well in the stock market for a lot of years now and I am only seeking info on precious metals, with which I have no experience. I just want to take some of my money out of the markets and put it in a safe place that does not require a lot of time and effort to manage. We had big plans for the farm that we just sold. But it was going to be a ton of work and worry and we do not need that at our age...so we turned the farm into cash that I do not want to put back into the market. My need to make a lot of money is in the past...I just need to keep what I have. I was a very aggressive investor at one time and that worked for me...not now.
To me the biggest problem with metal is that you're buying at retail and selling at wholesale. Once you factor in your losses on each end the metal has to go up huge amounts to beat the market. I like Vangard Index funds myself.
If you buy 100 oz silver bars and find the right dealer, you can be treated like another dealer. Those smaller bars are, for the for lack of a better term, the sucker market. You will lose at both ends with those. That was my dad's experience. He played the silver market for years. Just sayin'. :)
Of course he had bought into Apple in the beginning. If he had held on to his investment it would have been worth several million now. He sold. And so it goes. :snowball: :snowball: :snowball:
Calling the future by looking out the rear view mirror doesn't work. If it was easy we would all be rich. 8) :snowball: :snowball:
Quote from: Qweaver on June 15, 2015, 08:53:46 AM
Wow, there are a lot of well stated financial plans in response to my question here. I'm not a financial wiz but I have done well in the stock market for a lot of years now and I am only seeking info on precious metals, with which I have no experience. I just want to take some of my money out of the markets and put it in a safe place that does not require a lot of time and effort to manage.
10 year Treasuries in a ladder might be an attractive alternative. A good rule of thumb in investing, when you sit down at the table and don't know who the mark is, it's you.
If I'm reading Qweaver correctly, he isn't interested in buying more paper, but is looking for an asset that will retain value. Gold prices are like any other commodity, dependent on supply and demand. Supply is being suppressed by the current value in gold. From what I've read, the risk to the downside is about 10-15%. Gold will never go down to zero.
The demand right now is also being suppressed by the easy money policy of central banks all around the world. They are in the process of devaluing currency. When the easy money dries up through a rise in interest rates, stock and bond prices will drop when money is pulled out of the market. Where is that money going to go?
The picture for all assets are pretty murky and their are opinions on all sides. It all depends on your world outlook as to whether any investment is a worthwhile one. Gold can be a pretty good hedge against asset deflation.
Exactly Ron! Metals are not an investment that I plan to jump in and out of. My investment strategy for years has been to buy high quality companies that pay dividends. Not the highest return but generally safe. But they all can fail! And inflation is the real thief when you are in paper. All that I was asking about was precious metals.
i don't know how much gold your talking about, but would you insure it? i recently got married and added a ring to my home owners insurance policy, i don't know how similar the rates are to gold you keep in a safe, but i can say for sure, if paid an increased premium every year for 10 years, gold would have to double or triple just to pay the costs associated with keeping it.
if your plan is to keep gold in your primary residence and not insure it, then are you really hedging against risk by risking having your investment stolen by a home invader?
but maybe i'm wrong, does anyone know if gold in a safe is covered by home owners insurance without an additional rider?
I'm willing to bet next weeks beer money that any kind of policy on gold would be filled with fine print and expensive.
Buy a shovel and don't tell anyone you have it.
Quote from: Raider Bill on June 16, 2015, 03:33:13 PM
Buy a shovel and don't tell anyone you have it.
I don't care who knows I have a shovel ;D
Can an individual actually have gold in their possession? I understood not, that is was not legal.
Anyone know how it is done?
I have seen Gold Bars . . . kind of looks like a Shiny Brick
I thought that the gold possession restriction was lifted.
Google said: Obama and Gold (http://skinnyreporter.com/obamagoldban.html) and Gold Ownership (http://onlygold.com/FAQ/Legal-Issues-And-Gold.asp)
I have no idea about the authenticity or the date of either. ::)
Quote from: beenthere on June 16, 2015, 06:51:01 PM
Can an individual actually have gold in their possession? I understood not, that is was not legal.
Anyone know how it is done?
Yes, it is legal.... for now. Was made illegal during the depression. The law was changed many years ago.
Mark
I would certainly NOT buy a piece of paper that says I own gold. I'm not into holding precious metals anyway, but it did occur to me what a good criterion would be. If some washed up actor is on tv trying to talk you into buying gold, you can bet the price is headed down. If he is trying to buy your gold jewelry, you can be sure it's headed up. Right now, they are selling.
A great thread, there are so many posts that I would like to quote, but that would take a long time. I have invested in precious metals since I got out of high school, I would strongly caution against buying into any metal mutual funds, the management and redemption fees will eat up most of your gains. Buying into a ETF is slightly safer bet, ETF's are the reason that most people can't trade stocks as a hobby anymore. ETF's buy and sell thousands of shares in a fraction of a second they can make money on both sides of the trade, they also trade on margin and only have to have a fraction of the capital needed to trade individual stocks. I would also caution against buying individual gold/silver stocks unless you have a VERY high risk tolerance. Its not uncommon for a gold stock to lose 25-50% of its value over a 6-12 week period and could takes years to recover. I have bought gold and silver bullion when I can and store it in a safe, I only buy American Eagles or stamped bars, stay away from one off's or gimmick coins. When you want to sell, try selling yourself, as stated in previous posts, only crooks charge to buy it back. If you have the time, selling it yourself will bring more money if you have the patience to go online and sell it. I'm no pro but I believe having 15-20% of your nest egg in precious metals gives you some protection in a insane and unpredictable world. As already stated, gold will NEVER be worth zero, the same can't be said for stocks. Just my 2 cents. :)
Well said Pabst79. My research thus far puts me in agreement with you in all respects. I have a good safe and I don't expect to buy enough to make a professional heist worthwhile.
Precious metals offer an "insurance policy" against insane fiscal and monetary policies in whatever currency regime you live under. Thinking of them as an investment is off the mark. In fact, what they offer is a means of retaining purchasing power compared to unbacked paper fiat currency. Metals are NOT a get rich quick investment.
Every single fiat currency (which is what the US dollar is) throughout history has eventually become worthless. Every single one, I will not even entertain arguments on this fact.
Consider this. When the US last minted silver coinage in 1964, a quarter was about what you would pay for a gallon or gas. Today, that same quarter (90% silver) is worth $2.91. More than the price of a gallon of gas in most parts of the US today. The US national debt at that time was measured in the tens of billions. Today it is measured in the tens of trillions (a 1,000 fold increase).
There are big rumblings going on across the globe thanks to our central bank "printing" money like crazy. More and more nations are choosing to transact in currencies other than the US dollar. The same is true for pretty much all of the Western world currencies, (which also happen to be the worlds biggest debtor nations).
I like metals, but I'd say that anything tangible and productive that you can own outright is better than some digits assigned to you on a computer somewhere that could vanish in a heartbeat, and leave you with no recourse.
There is a downside to physical gold. That is of government confiscation. They did it in 1933 where the central bank bought gold at a little over $20, then raised the price to $35/oz. In effect, they devalued the dollar. But, they made it illegal to own gold. I'm not saying that this will happen, just a consideration. I don't know if insurance would cover that.
Ron, I wouldn't worry about confiscation. There is so little gold held by US citizens it wouldn't be worth the effort.
Perth Mint, Australia, has an option where you open an account (in USD or AUD), and they hold the physical metal in their vault for you. If you choose the allocated option, you can also have it shipped to you at any time. It's insured, and can be inspected personally. There are fees though. Google Perth Mint and you can take a look at their website and read and learn. :P If you're interested, give them a ring. I am NOT an expert or anything, just mentioning Perth Mint is an option for people who want to own physical gold, kept in a vault.
Not what you asked, but I would look for a good buy on decent farmland and rent it out for farming. So you collect rent on it until you decide to sell some years down the road.
Nickels are the magic hedge against inflation and deflation- Just order a few boxes every time you go to the bank and youll have nothing to worry about. Plus, pretty fireproof and an average thief would be too lazy to haul them off even if you left the doors unlocked. :)
Youre going to need a wheel-barrow for a wallet when you go grocery shopping though!