Hello folks, my first post here. I was raised using chainsaws, for firewood, work around the ranch, and professionally but had not really had any exposure to the way folks do it in other parts of the country until researching saw stuff online a year or so ago. Interesting to note the differences :)
Around here as far as professional use of saws there are a few common classes,
-brushing saws run 24"-28" bars mostly with a few guys running 32"s. Saws running from 45-65cc most common, + a number of 70ccs (272/372 and 044/440)with those long bars.
-logging saws, most fallers runnin 80+ ccs, maybe with a smaller 70cc class saws for backup, stripping bark, small timber etc. These all are running 32" bars on the smallest side, 36's common and 42's all the time too, just depends on the wood and the faller.
-then ur climbing saws which are the same as everyone elses, or much bigger depending on the job at hand. I Worked with one well known climber who only used an 036, 28" bar i think, it wasnt a 32.
For wood cuttin saws Id say most folks use a 24-28 for cutting wood but plenty have big saws and long bars as well, depends on what they like. Ive rarely heard of anyone putting a smaller bar on a big saw to cut smaller wood, we go bigger, but as an example, Ive never seen a 20" bar on a saw bigger than 55ish cc outside of a sawshop.
I would venture to say that as a saw using culture, the folks from my area prefer a saw with a little more weight out front and with a lil reach.
What do folks use in your part of the world?
Welcome to Forestry Forum Native Cutter.
Here's my main stable of work saws 14", 16", 18", 24", 28" in order.
I don't have a pic of my 395XP -32" though.
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Depends on the wood you are cutting. Ninety percent of what I cut is red oak and an 036 will not do much with a 28 inch bar buried in that. Of course some guys don't like to bend over and they may use the length for that rather than burying the whole bar in something.
Yes I do have one of the 395XP -32" ;D
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Thats a nice lil group of saw there sir. You have the perfect tool for about every job I imagine! :) Holmen Tree Ive read many of your posts and respect your wealth of knowledge and experience.
Zero Junk, I completely agree, the wood determines the tool Needed. Around here hardwoods arent harvested commercially unless we mean for firewood vendors. But if I was to go to work cutting hardwood bigger than 28" for a livinn A 036 wouldnt be my first or 5th choice. Lol. 390xp with a 32 or 36 would be more like it.
I should clarify, when I say brushing, I mean by contractors not outfits where you get ur 40 and go home. There was a huge reforestation industry around here for quite a while and it definitely shows in saw choices. Cutting for production is just too hard with a short bar, too hard on the back reaching all the time. A 24/28 allows the cutter to cut way more with less body strain than a short 20" bar. Ive done it both ways and thats what Ive found.
So the wood cut and the manner in which the job needs to be done are big ones to consider.
With logging, those machines that limb and buck, never saw one inland here, maybe on the coast. Anyways, fallers here do their own limbing and bucking too so that affects the tool needed. Bucking big conifers on such steep ground would be deadly if ur bar was too short for the job at hand.
I would guess that if a guy didnt have to limb and buck you could get by with a smaller rig? Yes, no?
Handfalling and bucking big timber on steep ground calls for a longer b/c. Higher stumps, no back chaining, limbing while walking on the stem with caulk boots ( because the ground is too uneven and too much underbrush under the felled tree to limb it from the side)
I've seen underbrush so thick in the PNW that you need a long bar just to properly be able to clear an escape route from your tree.
Here's a good story how demanding this kind of timber falling was when the Husqvarna 2100 was introduced on the PNW coast in the mid 1970's.
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I am in southwest missouri, most loggers here run 20" bars. I run 20" on my 372s, i have a 28" in the truck toolbox if i need it. I have a 550 xp that i run a 16" bar on, use it for firewood and cutting roads. The only one on this forum that i know personally is cx3, but i'm like you in that i enjoy reading posts from holmentree and many others on here.
Pine Ridge I'm in the same league as you. When I logged here on flat ground Manitoba , 20" b/c was the standard size on a 70cc to 85cc saw. Small pulpwood 18", stands of old growth spruce we used 24" but that wasn't all that often.....or we would have gotten spoiled :D
Holmentree a 20" is pretty much standard here , i ran a 24" on an 064 that i bought new sometime around 1990, i never did get comfortable with it, i was used to a 20" , and i ended up putting a 20" on it. I sure got in alot of sharpening practice though, as that extra 4" was always in the dirt !
HT thats a neat little article. I like the pic of him cuttin that jack seat. You forgot to mention the fact that you cant limb a tree a foot taller than you are while standing beside it! :)
Where were you in the pacific northwest?
Ok, so when you have these shorter bars on these saws, say anything bigger than 65 cc, what do you feel the power differences are? If the bar is 20 and your tree is around the same what would make you chose a 064 over a 044, or a 390 over a 372?
I forgot to thank you for the welcome! Appreciate it.
Short bar northeast here. A 20" bar is about standard in the woods here, not many trees you can't cut with a 20" and a bit of work.
I have 20" on my 70cc saws, 24" on my 385xp. I do have a 395 with a 32" I mill with. Tried the 24" on it once, can't say it was any faster than the 385.
I also have a 357xp and a jonsered 2260 and I run 16" bars on them. Very fast in softwood and smaller hardwoods.
You talk about the reach of a long bar, personally I'd rather use the lightweight 2260 and 16" and use good body mechanics to bend and reach, especially for limbing.
Also you never see wrap handlebars here unless it's a special case or an enthusiast. They add weight and you can't cut as low.
Like you said, regional differences. Terrain and timber is a lot different here.
Native Cutter,welcome to the forum.
Most saws around here are set up with a 20 inch bar. I only cut on my land and just for my own use. I run a 18 inch bar on a 372 husky. I do have a big saw with a 28 inch bar on it. I did have some good some white pine on my land.
When I was looking for a new saw last fall at one Stihl dealer I mentioned I might want a 24" bar. They looked at me like I was crazy. Said they only new one person that ran a bar that long. Still wouldn't mind having one for the ocassional larger tree.
Quote from: thecfarm on July 31, 2015, 06:30:48 AM
Native Cutter,welcome to the forum.
Most saws around here are set up with a 20 inch bar. I only cut on my land and just for my own use. I run a 18 inch bar on a 372 husky. I do have a big saw with a 28 inch bar on it. I did have some good some white pine on my land.
I would think that is overwhelmingly the case everywhere except the PNW in North America anyway. But, there are plenty of huge oaks etc. around old home places and fence lines that get blown over or die. So, a big saw is a necessity as well if you don't want to pay a pro.
Thanks for the replies , this is very informative.
Celliot touched on a point that is sorta what I been wondering, the big 94cc saw not being any faster with same bar size as the 85cc saw. In that case I believe the 394/5 is simply a slower saw already am I right? So in general what is the greatest reason any of you folks would personally pic say a. 064 or a 390 (15.5 lb) saw over a 044/440 or 372 (13.5 lb) saw with 20" bar?
But whats seems to the big difference is in this area, and I am in the PNW, is that here bar size seems to be in direct correlation to saw size. Which also translates to something like -if a 20" bar is good for the wood size then Ill use a smaller saw with it as well. I think that is based on the fact that chainsaws first came into usage here with logging of great big trees and no matter how big a saw they never cut that fast thru a umpteen foot redwood or a 5 foot doug fir which is the norm now. So its just accepted, and it permeates all thru the saw culture here.
Celliot, when i say reach for limbing I mean on big old growth conifers that may be laying in places where you never want to be on the downhill side so you limb em from the top. And on the brushing aspect, im talkin commercial cutting for production, contract work, its almost always crazy thick brush in all sorts of bad ground, Pre Commercial Thin and Release, anyways, if you cant cut 1/4 acre in 5.5 hrs including lunch And breaks then ur fired or making bottom rung wages. In that light there is simply no way to cut very fast with a lil bitty bar. But I agree with you, sometimes when Im clearing land for my own reasons, after i brush it Ill go back and flush my stobs with my lil saw, a 45cc with 18".
This is cool, learning how its done in all these diff areas, very eye opening! :)
While it is true that to a point a 94cc saw may not pull a short chain any faster with identical sprockets a lot of people who use big power heads with shorter bars go to an 8 pin instead of a 7, etc. At some point the more powerful saw will win out.
Nativecutter i use 372s over 390s just because of personal preference, they cut good with enough power, are lighter, and feel balanced very well. In no way bashing 390s, they are very good saws, i ran one alot at the road department where i work, its just my preference. I've also owned two 044s and the 064, with 20" bars, the 044s were both very good with lots of power, the 064 was a real ripper with more power than them though. Of course though its a larger cc saw too. If stihl still made 064s new like the one i had i'd buy one, never gave me any trouble and ran and handled great.
South Carolina here,
We in the South East don't really have "logging" saws because we live in the land of the pine my friend. In the coastal plain from Alabama to North Carolina, logging operations are done with feller/bunchers. Hell most logging outfits don't even have but one or two guys who can even run a saw, and their insurance doesn't like them using them either. As far as firewood saws go (red/white oak mostly) it's 20'' or 25'' bar with at least a 60-70cc Stihl or Husqvarna running it. My"signature" at the bottom has a list of personal saws that we use for clearing trails, felling snags and dangerous trees, limbing, and firewood.
Side note,
I do know a guy pulling bald cypress logs out of the Waccamaw river near Myrtle Beach, SC that were cut in the late 1800's. He had to buy a 3120 xp husqavarna with a 72'' bar (120cc) :o!! He said it takes 2 men to operate it. They are bucking and milling logs that are +400 years old and +50'' dbh. This is of course is not normal.
Zero Junk good point, the 8tooth sprockets are game changers for sure. I overlooked that aspect earlier. A lot of brush cutters ran em on their saws, my dad used a 8 tooth on a 257 with 28" and was one of the best around, his better cutter and foreman used a 272 with 8 tooth and a 32, but he is also 6'2 so it fit him about the same. Those saws ripped! Them two guys taught me how to cut and to work hard, always. Ps both them saws were set up for cutting brush, not trees, the 8tooths sorta suck when using long bars on bigger wood lol
Pine Ridge I agree, the 372 size is much nice to handle when ya dont need a bigger one. 2Lb diff on the powerhead adds up over the day dont it? :D
Hitchcock Woods, Im with ya there, a mid 60's cc saw with a 24/25 can do a lot of work and is a very versatile rig. 70 cc's get bigger bars but we're close :)
Somebody mentioned wrap handles, theyre really never used on brushing saws here because they get caught on everything, plus the weight and dont allow low cuts as mentioned. But for firewood and logging, theyre awesome arent they.
Hitchcock Woods that reminds of of a story.
One of my best friends was swampin for his uncle the summer of his senior year in high school. They were fallin old growth fir, spruce, POC and hemlock with some residual old growth redwoods thrown in. As usual, steep nasty, brush filled ground. Well they get to this big redwood on the lower part of the long deep unit and uncle says, ima get the jacks ready go grab me that bigger saw ok.
So Rock heads back to near the top of the unit wayyyy up the hill, and grabs the 3120 or if there was a 1996 equivalent with a 6' bar and head back down. He is climbing over huge logs, rocks, sliding down banks and thru slash half the time. He almost died when he nearly landed on a sharp stob that woulda went right thru him as he fell off a log. He gets back to the base of the tree, drenched in sweat and wore out and his uncle stops fiddlin with the Silveys, looks up and says "Aww (admin edit) didnt mean THAT one Si"
Rock bout dies, points to it and says instantly (admin edit)
Quote from: Native Cutter on July 31, 2015, 01:16:52 AM
HT thats a neat little article. I like the pic of him cuttin that jack seat. You forgot to mention the fact that you cant limb a tree a foot taller than you are while standing beside it! :)
Where were you in the pacific northwest?
Ok, so when you have these shorter bars on these saws, say anything bigger than 65 cc, what do you feel the power differences are? If the bar is 20 and your tree is around the same what would make you chose a 064 over a 044, or a 390 over a 372?
I competed in timbersport competitions on northern Vancouver Island in the late 1980's, and ran into an old logging partner there who got a union job as a timber faller.
I got a photo of him laying inside the face cut of a 15 ft diameter red cedar he was falling, 48,000 board ft in that one tree. I'll post the pic now that I now have my new laptop,just give me a few days.
When I was a faller in the late '80s early 90's I felled for 2 skidders, then before the bunchers and processors came in I was falling for a large Clarke grapple skidder.
It took a Stihl 064 with a 18"-20" b/c to keep ahead of them and I had to limb and top the tree length too. But they they helped out by back blading the trees limbs which speeded up production nicely.
All white spruce and jack pine, biggest sized stands here in Manitoba 100-110ft. 24-36"
But majority was half that size, but tight spaced and almost always tabletop flat ground.
When I started in a Stihl shop in south central B.C. in the mid 70's a lot of the local fallers were running 051's with a 25" bar, I learned later that those 89cc brutes were overkill, an 045 Super would have been plenty. ;D Some areas with big cedar required 075's and 090's with 36" bars but they were the exception. The helilogging fallers I last worked with ran 272's and 038's with 24" bars due to weight on extremely steep ground, they were working in softwood almost no hardwood harvesting here. I have been out of logging for about 15 years.
Sawguy21 thats pretty cool. And yeah Im with you, I cant imagine hauling around a big brute of a saw when you only need to pull a 24"! A 272/372 would rip all day with a 24" and is still fairly light so I can def see guys in smaller 2nd growth and such using that combo.
Holmen Tree, thats a big honkin cedar! Holy moly. Ive seen a number of youtube vids from Oregon, washington of some huge cedars being dropped. It crazy cause theyr so old and catfaced they seem to explode when they hit.
And man an 064 with a 20" must rip like a monster! Thats a dang good saw, I think my fav of the bigger Stihls since its really light for how much power you have to work with. I wish they still made it.
I ran one with a 42" b&c buckin residual redwoods and some old growth fir on super steep powereline right of way work. We fell, bucked, hauled and decked all the merchantable timber for the landowners as we went. Fun job.
I forgot to mention the 051's were running .404 chain, we see very little of that anymore.
I'm now living and operating my tree service out of Thompson Manitoba about 4 hrs drive NE of were I spent the last 25 years at The Pas.
Cottage country here around Paint Lake is quite hilly and steep slopes to the lake shore in some areas. By the end of my day the terrain takes alot out of me. Lot's of tall spruce here growing on silt and clay ground.
Night and day working in both flat and slope terrain.
Up here in the northeast there are few trees you can't slice and dice with a 20" bar. I use a 365 husky with a 20 for most everything. I do have a stihl 046 with a 24 and 28 for butts and clumps. 18" bars are handy and balance well for firewood. Frank C.
Sawguy21, yeah we dont see much .404 around here either. I think it was too much of a good thing. Its just too heavy and hard on your saws for most uses. Lot more weight for what benefit ya know. Maybe if i was runnin a 3120 with loong bar it might make more sense? 75 gauge seems plenty strong to me and I prefer 72 for most rigs. Easier for the saw to pull all those links when ya got 3 foot out there haha
Holmet Tree, sounds like you got lots of work. Good for you :)
Bandmiller2 thanks for weighing in. Whereabouts are ya in the NE and what species are ya cuttin over that way?
The 3120 is built for speed, .404 on a long bar would slow it down too much. The old Stihls and other earlier saws were slow revving torque monsters that could take advantage of the more aggressive chain but few run those professionally any more, just too DanG heavy on west coast terrain.
I thought the bigger modern saws like the 3210 and 880 were the modern torquey, slow saws? I can see them being quick with a shorter bar and larger drive sprocket, but even a local shop admitted a much smaller saw would outrun it in most stuff around here. Suppose it depends on what you're cutting though.
I was thinkin that might be true of the 3120 but hadnt run one so didnt know. Theres a few of em around here but they dont see much daylight! lol.
I was just playing around with an old Husky L65 yesterday and ran it next to this lil stihl 390 i have. The older saw is definitely slower turning but even with a longer bar outcuts the faster saw in once wood got a certain size. Old saws are cool like that.
Them big saws need a big bars and big wood to be really worth their weight, otherwise they get outrun by saws pounds lighter and ur still tired lol
Native Cutter, I cut mostly pine and oak for saw logs. Fire wood oak and maple, used to like elm and ash but their both on their way out around here. I'am in Ma. not far from the RI. line. Frank C.
Bandmiller2, thanks for the info. Im not sure Id know an elm is i walked into it. Im sure Ive seen em somewhere tho lol.
Its pretty need learnin what kinda wood gets cut for timber or firewood in various parts of the country, and what size saws are used for the job. Anybody down Texas way? New Mexico or Arizona? How about Montana, Idaho and such....?
I have spent a lot of time in Montana camped out in the wilderness with nothing to burn in the little stove but lodge pole pine and aspen. I would have given good money for a pile of hickory.
ZeroJunk, Thats funny!! IIve camped in the high country in places with no good firewood and it really bites! im right there with ya!
I havent been to Montana or anywhere near there but I have heard they got lots and lots of smaller pine trees. Prolly some sizes ones too Id imagine.
Is either Aspen or Birch like Alder? Anyone know? Alder, the tree, not the brush, is one of the most dangerous trees to cut in this area. It just explodes sometimes, breaks in weird places and has hurt many an experienced cutter. Its one of times Im happy to have a bar wayyy bigger than the tree, so i can cut it from another zip code haha
In my area aspen is referred as trembling aspen or white poplar. We also have balsam poplar otherwise called black poplar. We also have a northwest poplar which is a native cross between a cottonwood and poplar, these trees get big.
Birch is a true hardwood and is the best firwood here. Its paper bark makes excellent firestarter. These same trees bark was used to make birch bark canoes for thousands of years by our local first nation peoples.
Matter of fact British fur traders about 300 years ago took a first nations made birch bark canoe back to England, to show the King the engineering capability of the stoneage Canadian first nation peoples.
Thanks for the story about the canio going to England, I had not heard that. Very cool stuff.
I have known about birch being used for canoes and for fire starting for years but had always wondered what kind of wood it was. I would not have guessed it was a hardwood, thanks.
Birch makes high end hardwood flooring and furniture, made famous on the global market by the Swedes. Birch is a common tree in Sweden as here in Canada in the Boreal Forest.
The Boreal Forest is the world's largest forest covering the whole northern hemisphere .
It accounts for 1/3 of the earths total forest.
http://www.borealforest.org/index.php?category=world_boreal_forest
I was just reading the thread on the 034 and a couple things jumped out at me that relate to this thread. One gent mentioned that the 034 was a much better saw than his previous 266 and I thought about that a bit. A bit later its mentioned that a lof of those saw were run using short 16-20" bars and it clicked with me. Lightbulb moment, the 034 is a high revving engine and the 266 is not. Around here the 034 is commonly run with a 24" bar where the 266 use 28" and 32" depending on the cutter and job. The 034 is slowed considerably by those bars but the 034 Super and 036 does fine with them.
What stands out to me is what this shows in terms of regional saw preferences.
it seems that in many areas the norm is to judge a saws abilities with a bar that allows the saw to operate at the top end of its rpm range, the cc to dbh ratio is high and the bar length to cc ratio is low as a result.
In this region, my lil chunk of the PNW a saws ability too operate in the low to medium of is torque band is more valued, eg whats the longest bar that the saw cuts strong with, and thats the way theyre set up. The cc to dbh ratio is low and the bar " to cc ratio is high.
That and the notion of saw balance, there is a definite difference there as well, saws here being preferred with a lil nose weight but not nose dive heavy and in other areas a more powerhead heavy-nuetral kind of feel is sought.
A rough average around here seems that 10-11ish lb saws run a 24", 12ish lb saws average a 24&28", 13/14 lbs get a lot of 32s and ur 15/16lb saws see a lot of 36"s with some 32 and 42 thrown in depending on the wood and the mood lol
The types and sizes of wood do of course change things, as well as the bucking -no bucking, steep vs flat ground etc etc but at the same time how many people in the northeast would pick up a 266 or 372 with 32" and say it balances just right, or agree with me that my lil ms390 needs a 28" cause the 25" makes it powrhead heavy, bulky and awkward and its hard on the forearms when being used in the brush all day?
I think its pretty neat how it worked out that way.
That's a well written interesting thread Native Cutter.
In my regional saw differences zone I like to use a highest h.p. powerhead possible that is ergonomically and made light enough with the shortest bar possible for what d.b.h. I cut.
For my best production a 16" b/c on a 372XP Husqavarna offers me the best throttle response , felling, limbing and bucking ergonomics. Plus the benifit of ease keeping the bar nose out of the dirt.
Here's my 372XP-16" doing powerline R.O.W. work and my 562XP doing residential removals, as you notice I'm avoiding damaging the trees and other property the homeowner wants to keep.
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Thank ya sir :)
Those are some nice pictures! And yep, you definitely layed em right smooth. I liked workin on powerline r.o.ws, the lines I worked on were the big transmission lines, 3 to 6 a span, 60,000 volts per line they said. They taught us how to ground ourselves in the event of a tree hittin a line and it hitting the ground. Was crazy hearin the stories about what happens if it does.
I would think ur 372 would be unstoppable with that bar! If I were to get a brushing contract today and wanted to get a new saw I think Id go with a 562 with a normal half wrap handle, 28"bar, 3/8ths 72 gauge full comp chain, after running it some i may or may not go to an 8 tooth sprocket. Itd make a sweet firewood and light fallin saw too with the 7 tooth and maybe a full wrap. I just realized, that model might have autotune, Idk. If so brushing would surely kill it. Non stop, tank after tank all day in hot weather would make me wanna throw it over the hill lol!
I learned long ago to throw em UP the hill instead, and to make sure they land on a nice soft pile of lopped brush so nothin gets hurt. But in the early days, before my dads cutters could afford new saws, I saw some chainsaws fly! Crank, crank crank.......5 minutes of crankin and fiddlin later, You Son of a gun..and threw the air itd go! hahahaha
Bulk transmission lines around here are 550,000 volts. And in some areas they go higher than that. Of course, I don't think there is any way they would let a tree get anywhere close to falling on one, but if it did you would have a very bad day.
Holy crap! Yeah im fairly certain all the trees capable of reaching those were cut long before the lines were hot. With the lines I worked around the fatality percentage was 85 if u were within a hundred feet of where it touched the ground, maybe it was 200. Anyways an 85 percent chance at death, i met a guy who lived thru it once. Its no joke.
With ur area certain death would be the case for anyone within .......i dunno, quarter mile?? Yep, they can have it lol
I personally use my ms460 magnum for everything. It has a stihl 25" bar(24"). I use it for everything from saplings to the monsters. Most trees are in the 10"-20", but there are some pines around 3' I'm gonna have to cut soon. With that bar it cuts like a light sabre through butter. It'll cut faster than I can keep up if there's a big stack of logs for firewood. I like the size bar because it's big enough to cut some of the firewood logs 2 at a time, but is still pretty balanced. My grandpa's ms310 with a 20" bar seems to be a good cutting combination also. I also have a tin 010av with a 14" bar.
Dixon700, thats a nice versatile combo. I could live with that if need be, personally I like a lil more weight out front and reach for that size/weight but thats just me. And yeah i bet that saw does flat out stack up the firewood.
Do you run full comp or skip tooth on er?
I keep a 24" bar on my ms460 for when I need that size bar, trees over 20" mainly as I like to work from one side of the tree. Most the time it's my 361 with a 20" bar, saw does very well with that setup in the hardwood I cut for firewood up to 18-20". The 200t has a 14" bar for climbing or small stuff on the ground, 16" on 142 Husky for light firewood or limbing. Husky 350 has an 18" bar but I also have done some work to it, it cruises through wood 16-18" diameter. All my saws are just for firewood and some tree jobs on the side. :)
JohnG28, thats a nice lil group of saws ya got there. What species of hardwood ya cuttin for ur firewood?
N I got a lil Husky 350, neat lil saw. Pretty light and handy. Think mine has a 20" on it but I may be wrong. I loaned it to my nephew and it blew up he said, lol so I gotta get it over here and tear into it. But Ive used it a lot to cut firewood as well as just projects on the ranch n such. So whatd you do to soup it up?
Thank you, sir. We have a place up in the Adirondacks with some acres. Most of what we cut is Ash, Birch, Cherry/Black Cherry with some Oak and Maple mixed in. Usually depends on what needs to go or took a hit from a storm. Not all that big either, 24-30" dbh is about the biggest we see with 18-20" being more normal. Have a big dead Cherry to tackle this fall that I'm looking forward to. ;D Except for the Husky 142, which was my first saw years ago, and my 361, all the others were bought used. Little fix or some parts here, don't all look pretty but they all run well and now have a saw for anything I'll ever get into. The 350 I got cheap from a guy who I bought my Jonsereds 90 from. Asked me if I was interested in it and was in real nice shape, so I grabbed it on the cheap as a package. I figured it would make a good 1st timer project as it has removable transfer covers and I didn't have much into it to start. I swapped the dished oem piston for a flat top Meteor piston from a 353. I widened the intake and exhaust ports slightly and opened up and smoothed the transfers. Removed base gasket and used permatex for compression bump, muffler mod and removed limiters from the carb. I think that's it. :D Was a fun and pretty easy project. Saw is a little screamer now. If you go in my photo gallery there are a bunch of pictures of the project. The piston change alone makes the saw a 353 as they share the same cylinder, other than the plastic case on the 350. I have a spare Meteor 353 piston with wrist pin and clips I believe, don't think I have the ring though. If you need one when you rebuild your 350 pm me, I have no use for it. 8)
I run a 16 inch bar on an old xp 262, and 20 inch bars on an xp 372 and xp 575. I probably could just run 18 inch on everything. I use the 16 as much as possible because it is so quick to sharpen. I can handle any tree around here with a 20 but I rarely cut anything more than 3 feet and once and a while cut a 4 footer. Most of the trees are between 12"- 26" at the stump. I always buy .058 3/8 oregon LGX chains and sharpen with a 7/32" file.
JohnG28, that does sound like a fun lil project and i can imagine that thing being a lil animal now! Once I get mine back over here and tear it down to see whats what I will let you know what the verdict is and we can go from there. Thanx. Im pretty sure itll be rebuildable but ya never know.
Grassfed, how do you like that 575? how does it compare to ur 372? I been curious about the 575/6 for a bit now, theres a guy sellin his over this way. I read somewhere the 576 was replacing the 372 at some point?? Hope not, its a bunch heavier on the spec sheet.
I have the old original 575XPG. It is the one that everyone hated when it first came out.
People complained so much that Husky decided to keep the 372XP around.
It is noticeably heavier and it has a very different feel to the power then the 372.
It is really better balanced in that it pivots right between the two handles. By that I mean that if you want it to pivot up you push down with your right hand with the same force that you pull up with your left hand. I may not be explaining it well but it basically feels like you can be more precise with the 575.
It is not a bad saw to work with if you are good at resting the saw on your body and or the tree when limbing and work with the natural balance of the saw. If you tend to just hold your arms out and cut the weight will kill you!!!.
Power wise the 372 is "pipeier" By that I mean it revs quicker and has more power at the top end. But the 575 is much smoother and has more lower end torque . The power is smooth throughout the rpm and it feels like it has more flywheel weight. Almost like an electric motor or maybe more 4 stroke like.
I really do like the fact that the 575 smokes much less as I get tired of breathing exhaust all day . It also gets much better "mileage" and that is nice because running out of fuel in the middle felling a tree is no fun and you can carry a smaller amount of gas with you.
My saw has been very reliable. I pulled out the carb adjustment stops and made some tubes with 1/4 inch copper so the carb is very easy to adjust. It drop starts well; the saw weight and "flywheel" weight make it less jerky to start than the 372. I rarely change starter cords; not so with the 372 or the 262. It idles much better than my other 2 saws.
I do like to swap saws during the day and I will change to the sharpest saw and then stop for a break and sharpen them both. All in all I like having a different feeling saw I think that the same saw uses the same muscles and you get a "cross training" effect by switching every hour or so.
Grassfed, what an excellent review!. Ima hafta give that model a seriouss look now.!! :)
Quote from: Native Cutter on August 03, 2015, 05:24:54 PM
Dixon700, thats a nice versatile combo. I could live with that if need be, personally I like a lil more weight out front and reach for that size/weight but thats just me. And yeah i bet that saw does flat out stack up the firewood.
Do you run full comp or skip tooth on er?
I run full chisel 33 84 rs chain. I normally touch the chain up after every tank of fuel with a 13/32 file. Solid cutting a tank of fuel is about 15-20 min, but it'll make a lot of firewood in the time as long as I keep up. Lol
So my father owns a 290 farmboss with an 18 bar and a full chiz chain. I recently traded a $400 gun for an 034 av super and a 290 farm boss in excellent shape. both are running 20 inch bars. 034 is running a 3/8 full chiz and the 290 is running a .325 full chiz. I like the 20 inch bar on my 290 better then my fathers 18 on his. but the 20 in oak seems to bog he farmboss. with a port job on the muffler done by myself it eats the 20 inch bar in white oak now. I loved the 034 super more the the farmboss when I got them. but am leaning more towards the 290 now with the muff modded.
If your father's 290 is running a 3/8" setup that might be why yours seems better with the .325. The muffler mod doesn't hurt either I'm sure. ;) The 034 is a good bit older as well. Could need some maintenance to freshen it up, carb rebuild, fuel/impulse lines, fuel/air filters, cleanufdler screen if in place, possibly a new ring on piston to bump compression back up if it's getting worn. If you check that look the piston over for skirt wear. A new Meteor piston and ring could bring the performance right back up. Good luck with it. 8)
dixon, thats the same chain i run on my ms390, cuts nice. i had to look it up because all the guys i know just call it by the type, when i hear the number codes i gotta look em up lol.
yamaha605, i agree with JohnG28 that 034 should walk all over that lil saw. must be its age and also the chain diff. The 034s ive ran all had 24's on em, aand i know of a couple 28's, put sumthin like that on that 290 and there will be no doubt what saw has more grunt lol.
a lot of the the pro saws can be outran by smaller saws when in smaller wood and smaller bars but hang a lil bigger setup on em, especially in lil bigger wood and the power and torque take over.
Good tradin by the way! :)
johng my fathers saw is running the same chain my 290 is .325. the 034 seems to run good ill compression test it and see. but the 290 will out cut it. I had them both in an 18 inch oak yesterday. Any ideas on what compression should be 150??
Somewhere up around there is decent. It's a good bit older saw but performance wise I'd think a good running 034 should be a better cutter.
I've been impressed with the cutting capacity of some of Stihl's consumer grade saws. The 039 is a good example . Even the little MS250 motors good for its small displacement.
The 034 is probably a little tired, nothing a little work can fix. But that full sized 3/8 chain will suck power out of it easily too. If it was my 034 I'd run .325 chisel on it .
its bout time for a bar on the 034. its a 034av super so it has the 036 cylinder piston in it. may look into putting a 20 incher back on with a .325 chain. also thought about an 8 toother with it.
I had to edit my last post about the rim size as to avoid confusion about the clutch drums on the early 034 mini splined rims and the later standard splined rims .
As what has been talked about earlier. :-X
Nice thread....loved the lit on the 2100....that would be me cutting out that jack door for my Silvey(not literally). The root masses were so big on the Dougs we were taking, we used six ft bars with nothing but muffler mods(2100). Exclusively Cannon & General bars(made in OR).....many times springboards.
I can tell you there is such a thing as muscle memory. I ran the 2100 so long that even to this day when I pick one up, it just feels natural and balanced to me...not too heavy. I hate that Husky doesn't support this saw and hasn't for a very long time. They weren't made to sit on a shelf in a collection, as they were made to WORK. Even when I reduced 'down' to a J'red 80 as a back-up saw, I kept a 28" bar on. Walking down the top of a log with caulks, it's a lot easier on the back all day if you don't have to bend over too much.
In those days it was about power/torque. If you complained about a saw being too heavy you were a pussy and would be laughed off the site. Since then I've come to realize that the smaller cc saws have filled a real niche and need.
Kevin
I didn't read all the posts but, here is my take and experience. I'm not a logger. But, I have logged a bit. More importantly, I am a forester that spends 25 or so hours a week supervising log jobs in Southern WV. There are a couple reasons in my experience for this phenomenon.
It is steep here. 70-80% slopes on the sides with the bottom foot hills 40-45% slope. All my guys run between 20-24 inch bars most time. We cut hardwoods and they mostly run big 80+cc saws. Some split it up with the 70+ cc offerings from Stihl and Husqvarna but, by and large most run a 56 mm saw. Most are Stihl's as they have much better representation here. These hardwoods simply demand it. Boring and cutting a Hardwood tree versus a coniferous tree are two totally different animals. And, when we cut, we put the stumps on the ground to maximize tree sprouting from them. No high stumps here. Therefore, we run short bars on big saws that develop the power to cut these trees on steep slopes, close to the ground.
I suspect the reason you see long bars out west are due to the fact that most of the trees are cut with a high stump in comparison. The trees are bigger around. The saw will run through them much easier versus an eastern hardwood species. And, it is what is easier for the circumstances.
I see videos that shows guys running a 28 inch bar on eastern hardwoods from time to time. But, they are mostly cookie cutting and firewood sawing. In steep ground while timber felling hardwood timber, where stumps have to be cut low, you make the difference of a shorter bar up by boring the face cut. So, you get to run shorter bars, which means a lighter saw with more power. It is what works best here.
Hope my explanation helps. God Bless
I feel that I need to "represent" another part of USA; we've heard a lot from the PNW, from the NE, from the SE, and the mountains such as the Carolina mtns. However, in the Midwest USA are many smaller "woods" as they are called in this area that have generally rich soil and grow many large species of hardwoods, such as Ash{being steadily decimated by the E.A.B. bug}, hugh Burr oaks, Red oaks, and White oaks. Also,in this mostly flatter but some hilly terrain are some poplar, many valuable Black Walnut, some Black Cherry, and quite a bit of Hard Maple. Many of these trees can be very high value, and need to cut carefully. I'm now 66 yrs. young, logged since the late 70's on my own with 1 or 2 other part-time workers as needed, but finally "retired" in 2006. However, my youngest brother, with whom I am very close, has a business partner who wanted to log with draft horses! So, to make a long story a little shorter I' m back doing most of the cutting for them, and for some other smaller outfits as well when I have time. To say that most people in the USA outside of the PNW have no need, or usually don't need anything bigger than a 20" bar isn't always quite accurate. I run 2- 390XP Huskys-- 1 modded, and 1 stock, usually with 24" or 28" bar depending on the timber size in that particular stand. We do cut very low to the ground, I do bore cut a lot--particularly on high value veneer Walnut, and White oak, or even others that the need calls for. Trees are much like people--each tree and situation can be very different depending on terrain, value, degree of difficulty, directional falling necessary, etc. I am not good with the picture -taking and posting aspects, but it "did still happen!" Lyle
Basically, you go with what works in your area. And if it doesn't, you try something else. Since I'm near retirement and I got a lot of jobs falling 'problem' trees, I can afford to run 'antique saws' (as Bailey's phone guy called them). To me an 'antique saw' is a gear drive saw but whatever. If I was still everyday in the woods, I would be with all newer stuff or at least saws that the manufacturer still supports. Parts, service and support are key if you're doing anything professionally.
SW Oh logger, that's an ideal scenario! I'm jealous as hell...lol. I dream about some guy coming up to me and saying, "I have about 5-10yrs worth of fallin' and buckin' if you're interested." I'd be there the next day. I went up to Ashton, ID in my 20's and met that guy famous for his draft horse loggin'. I can tell ya from my two farms and using horses, they are a hell of a lot of work. It's a real love/hate thing. Given the choices between turning a key and walking out horses after you work them, all the gear and their personalities...most people take the key route. However I'm told that back here in the PNW, if you do have all the equipment for horse loggin', you can get into timber sales that mechanized loggin' can't. So that's kinda cool.....
Kevin