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I've got access to a large quantity of erc, but I don't know much about it. The fence post sized pieces are being taken, and the rest is being piled, probably for burning. What should I cut from these logs? I'm thinking PT alternatives, 4x4, 1x lumber, etc.

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I think that 1" would sell the best for blanket chests and such. 

Dave-

I get a number of requests for 4/4 boards and 3/4 siding.  If you have the space, take the cedar and stockpile it off the ground.  Seal the ends and it will last for years.  Cut it as you get orders.  That is what I try to do however I sell it too fast to seal! :D

I have cut a bit of cedar.
It seems like they want 3/4" for cedar closets, and 1" for most everything else. Seems like ERC is worth way too much to folks around here to make 4 x 4's out of

Cut it into 1x's and put an add on c.l. The phone will ring off the hook.

If you need to saw it before taking orders I'd go 1x stuff. ERC is pretty desirable around here (northeast MS). I'm sawing a load of it right now into 6x6 posts for my barn. My neighbor put me on the logs because he knew I needed barn posts. If it weren't for potentially rubbing him the wrong way I'd mill/sell it all, buy new treated posts, and have a good bit of money left over.

1x6 and 3/4 x 6 are by far the most popular.  Other widths work fine also. You have about 2 years to let the logs lay off the ground before the sapwood starts to deteriorate.
Another big seller in the spring are 2x8x8 and 2x8x4' for raised garden beds.  Use the big logs that have a good amount of ingrown bark.  Also a garden bed board will be just fine if it has a little doughty wood sprinkled in the board.
We get about the same price for a 4x4 as we would for four 1x4.
You should get a nice price in Ma as we ship fairly often into your state.

Red cedar is worth too much in our area to squander. Its very decay resistant so theirs no great rush, keep it clean and off the ground. Custom carpenters, furnature shops and rustic outdoor furnature makers are the best bet. Get the word out and they will come. Frank C.

i always saw my cedar into 6 x whatever it will make cants then i cans stack it in the shed and resaw it to what i need.  i cut the side lumber into 1x6. just be sure to oversize cants to allow for kerf based on 1' lumber. this way i can store it in 1/2 the space the logs take up and you will lose alot less if it is sawn before the sap wood is rotten. this works well for me anyway :)

Some of the ERC logs that I will be sawing tomorrow have lain since 2002.  The others since 2011. 

what do yawl think anout this?:

A guy who runs a medium sized circle sawmill around here (he can cut 3 tractor trailer loads of hardwood a day when hes got a full crew) told me that he sells cedar fast, because of its rot resistance.  But he says that the cedar here on the east coast is all juniper and isnt real cedar.  he claims that it isnt rot resistant any more than say pine is and after 4 years in the ground you can push it right over.  I really dont have much experience working with cedar so I cant speak on this but I found his argument interesting.  He says that the real rot resistant cedar is out on the west coast.

What say you?

ERC is a Juniper, but I guess that we could get all twisted up about what was "real".

From Wikipedia:

Juniperus virginiana — its common names include red cedar, eastern red-cedar, eastern redcedar, eastern juniper, red juniper, pencil cedar, and aromatic cedar --   Because of its rot resistance, the wood is used for fence posts.

Glad I'm not included in the East Coast loop.   :D  I have a bunch of cedar that has been on the ground for more than 4 years and it's still nice and solid. Maybe the cedar is better on the west side,but on this east side it's doing fine.

Dad used to say that red cedar fence posts were good for 75 years in Ohio. Then he moved to Missouri where they used hedge (osage orange) for posts. The guys around there said a hedge post would outlast 3 holes.

And I thought all those tall tales came from Texas and Minnesota. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:

Of course I've seen such bad erosion in Missouri that that could actually be true. Just keep digging a new hole deeper when the old one washes away.

I had this stashed in the barn loft.  Putting in up on the back porch.  32 ft. Long.  I sawed this on the one inch scale, off the saw it's about 7/8.  I planed a few boards, most as sawn.  I need to saw about another hundred and fifty feet.  Banjo

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18028/20150827_163023.jpg)

I feel like I am standing on my head looking at that. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:

Looking good Tim.   8)

Quote from: mesquite buckeye on August 27, 2015, 07:32:03 PM
I feel like I am standing on my head looking at that. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:

Then you should have seen it before I rotated the pic.   :) :)  .....Thanks Lynn I still got a long way to go on the remodel.  Banjo

Here in Pa. we use Black locust trees for fence posts...

Keep your Christmas lights up all year long.  That is a line in a Country Music song  :D.

Isn't a yawl one of those pointy thingys with a sharp point? 

Quote from: Banjo picker on August 27, 2015, 07:51:55 PMI still got a long way to go on the remodel.  Banjo

I thought that a "long way to go" was normal for remodeling projects.   smiley_thumbsup :D

Quote from: WDH on August 27, 2015, 08:41:15 PM


Isn't a yawl one of those pointy thingys with a sharp point?

That's an awl.
A yawl is a two masted sailing vessel.
When it is used to transport fodder for livestock it is called a hay yawl  ???

 :D :D :D :D

Now, that is funny!

Quote from: landscraper on August 27, 2015, 09:11:01 PM
A yawl is a two masted sailing vessel.

There's gotta be a ketch here somewhere. 

I was going to say something serious about ERC and WRC, but it looks like I missed my chance.  Y'all, Yawl, Yowl!

Quote from: Cedarman on August 28, 2015, 06:13:29 AM
I was going to say something serious about ERC and WRC, but it looks like I missed my chance.

You may still have a chance because the thread has not made it to food or Grits yet.   :)

I agree with all that's been said regarding eastern red cedar here, and have ton a lot of reading and research to properly answer customer questions in these areas properly. The good cedar is out west, western red cedar of course... Eastern is insect resistant to a point, somewhat decay resistant...but will last no where near as long as black locust, as a previous poster mentioned is choice in the northeast... Only problem with it is, you either have lots or none. White oak will last longer than ERC, and is great for raised gardens. Best bet is boards with ERC...

Quote from: bkaimwood on August 28, 2015, 06:38:11 AM
I agree with all that's been said regarding eastern red cedar here, and have ton a lot of reading and research to properly answer customer questions in these areas properly. The good cedar is out west, western red cedar of course... Eastern is insect resistant to a point, somewhat decay resistant...but will last no where near as long as black locust, as a previous poster mentioned is choice in the northeast... Only problem with it is, you either have lots or none. White oak will last longer than ERC, and is great for raised gardens. Best bet is boards with ERC...

are you saying that white oak will last longer in the ground than erc?

What about our white cedar?  In the adks there is mainly white cedar, rare to see erc.

...and then there's white oak and there's white oak.  Our Oregon white oak isn't your white oak back thar.  Wish it was.

thats right

I would very interested in what you have serious to say about cedar, Cedarman.  Esp.the eastern variety.  Banjo

I personally would put white oak in the ground here over ERC any day of the week...a few property owners around here do, lasts a LONG time.. Our eastern oaks are great, your western cedar is great...

I saw a lot of erc. It is one of my favorites just for the ease of cutting and the ability to sell it fast. It has been my understanding that the sapwood rots away and the heart will remain for a long time. any truth to this? 4/4 is my usual go to but in the spring I cut 6/4 and make stakes out of edgings as raised bed kits. They are gone before the saw dust settles. People really like the color and if clear coated it will remain for a long time. jmtc...Brian

Is there any species where the sapwood does not rot faster than the heartwood?

I don't mind expounding on western red cedar, having a bit of experience, both on my own, and having worked in a WRC shingle mill.  The sapwood rots fast.  But, so does what y'alls back thar call, "the pith."  Every old growth cedar pretty much has no center.  The fast growing heart rots.  Any idea of using the center wood from a second growth WRC as a fence post is like urinating into the breeze. 

When I ran the deck at the shingle mill, my job was to buck and split it and send it down the chain to the bolterman.  The bolterman (in a death-defying dance of moving the blocks on a moving table {moved with his knees}, into a stationary 48" circle blade) would cut away all the sapwood and the center heartwood, as well as any checks I had missed.  It was exciting for him when a block came apart in his hands while doing this.

So, our best wood here is all old growth, and I hear they ain't planting anymore of that.

 

QuoteSo, our best wood here is all old growth, and I hear they ain't planting anymore of that.

Not planting western red cedar?   

Not planting old growth.  It has always been a brain bender to me to think that anyone could have claimed to own an old growth tree or forest.  If they do, it is possession of stolen property or was gotten by way of some form of fraud. 

Aside from that, very little WRC is being planted by any except small private land owners.  The big kids plant D. fir and W. hemlock, and we wipe our butts with a lot of it.

Who planted this tree that I can see from where I sit, and you see me standing by?  It will not likely survive another year. (That's a Douglas fir behind me and a western red cedar to my left.)


Here's the immediate problem: they are worth more dead than alive (to someone).

Termites will eat White Oak that is in contact with the ground here in Mississippi.  Not so with heart ERC.

Thanks for all the input. I haven't even had time to look at the pile yet. There will be more cedar harvested at this site, and I hope to have a better idea of how to advise the cutting crew.

Around here, seems carpenter ants ruin posts at ground level first...I'm fortunate,  or unfortunate to be not old enough to testify...just saying what the locals say...

Quote from: Magicman on August 28, 2015, 07:11:56 PM
Termites will eat White Oak that is in contact with the ground here in Mississippi.  Not so with heart ERC.

True here also.  Here's my personal experience.  Several years ago, I had to redo the fences in our farm, about 3 1/4 miles worth, so we had a lot of posts to deal with.  The previous farmers had installed the fence many decades ago, using ERC logs for line posts every hundred feet, and metal T posts every 10 feet.  The old barb wire was rusted out, and many of the metal T posts had literally rusted in two at ground level, so had to be replaced.   I don't know how long it takes for that to happen, but it's got to be a long time.  Interestingly enough, many of the ERC line posts were still serviceable and would take fencing stables. 
We replaced the fence about a decade ago, using a mix of fresh sawn ERC posts and creosote poles.  The ERC posts I installed still look great and the original ones are still standing also. 

Here in NC I used ERC for my fence posts and white oak for my boards a few years back and everything looks good now but for a few white oak boards with knots bowing and cracking. I have cedar posts in ground at my old place that we planted for fence posts over 50 yo now still there.

In 1980  I built a good bit of fence.  We used ERC posts, some 1/4, some 1/2, some round.  Several years ago, one fence was not needed as I had sold all of the "moofers".   I pulled several posts and cross cut sections near the bottom, at ground level and a foot up the post and near the top.  Near the bottom still had some sapwood that was sound.  It appears this was in water logged soil at about 2 1/2' deep.  Very discolored, and good sound heartwood.  At ground level all sapwood was gone on all the posts. But the heartwood was bright and still sound.    At one foot up, most sapwood gone, heartwood sound.  Near top of post, some sapwood sound.  Mostly on split post where the bark was gone very early in the posts life.  Round posts that kept bark on showed a good bit of sapwood deterioration, but still some sound sapwood.  A few posts showed evidence of termites working the sapwood.
Where I grew up in north central Indiana, all the post were squared cedar and they were tapered.   I know some of those posts were functional after 80 to 90 years.  I suspect the posts came from old growth cedar that was densely red heartwood.
My experience says do not use posts from tops of cedar trees as these usually have wide sap ring.  Also do not use post that have a fair amount of white intermingled with the heartwood.  i have seen cedar where there were sapwood rings in the heartwood.  Sometimes those rings were rotten and in a few cases all the material was gone, leaving a "tree inside of a tree".
For fence posts we grade out and only sell those with minimum sapwood.  5/8" or less sapwood.

my experience with cedar fence post are just what cedarman described but because of my age about 30 yrs is as far as i can be sure of age on.  :)

Thanks for the post Cedarman.  I don't have any cedar on my place that is big enough to make even a decent log.  I have to scrounge mine from where ever I can find it.  Banjo

I go to this guys sawmill every so often, and he always has piles of pecker pole cedars and i ask him is it really worth the time to get what little you can out of them pecker poles?  he says it pays to get 3- 2x4s outta one small log to help fill an order than it is to saw a bigger log.  I thought he was crazy but hey if there's a buck in it I guess why not

4x4x8'   $14.00.  Cost of 6" log x8' is $4.95    Takes us less than a minute on the scragg.  Can easily do 1 on a WM in about 4 or 5 minutes.  That is about 2 bucks a minute gross profit over cost of log.  All about margin.

By golly it makes sense on paper!