So today I was making a little stand for a new chain grinder at work to be nailed into a wall stud...
When I decided to put in a gusset, I had another thing coming...
so I measured tip to tip, got 14-1/8", figured I'll just cut two 45°s and make sure that the tip is 14-1/8" apart it'll fit perfect! Nope...doesn't work like that I guess!
So I tried all sorts of different angles and finally I just ended up holding it up next to it and marking lines. The thing that took me so long was realizing that I was dealing with two different angles. So what is the proper way to figure out what your angles are to make gussets and stuff like this?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34510/IMG_3472.JPG)
BTW, just noticed that's a Jim Rogers special sawhoss thanks for the video on that!
You were just making "designer" firewood. :D
lol lol yea I reckon so!
my friend told me to pull a string and get one angle eyeing up a speed square, then to get the other just subtract it from 90.
Break out the Trig tables! :D And remember the Indian you learned about in Geometry class, SohCahToa (IIRC). If you measure two of the three sides you can use the correct formula. If you want the bottom, left angle of your pictured setup, you would do the division of the opposite side over the adjacent side (Toa) and look up that decimal number in the Tangent tables. For example, if I assume the vertical side is 12" and the horizontal is 16", the ratio would be .75. The ArcTangent of .75 is 36.87 degrees.
I understood this stuff when I was in school...but has since been long forgotten! And to think, my mother is a math teacher!! Thanks, I forgot about that injun!
I'm sure I learnt how to do that at some point at school, and probably still have a piece of paper to prove it.
But now I tend to lay it out and mark the lines so they fit too. :D
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables!
Trig tables? Sheesh--how old did you say you are? ;D
Being an engineer, I'd probably do the math, but I think the easiest way would be to make a scale drawing and just measure the angles.
Tim
Quote from: TimRB on November 02, 2015, 11:20:51 PM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables!
Trig tables? Sheesh--how old did you say you are? ;D
Being an engineer, I'd probably do the math, but I think the easiest way would be to make a scale drawing and just measure the angles.
Tim
When I was in 6th grade and my dad changed jobs, they gave him a really expensive (about $200) T.I. calculator. It did +, -, X, / and square root (and nothing else!). :D When I was learning Geometry in 10th grade, nobody had calculators in school. but by my second year in college, I had a programmable T.I. (for the youngster here, T.I. is Texas Instruments, a leader in chip technology and calculators, before Casio took over in the late '70s. Remember, the P.C. wasn't affordable until the early '90s!)
I would just layout a 3-4-5 triangle measurements on the area to brace and the brace, and not care if there was an extra inch or two that wasn't braced on one side or the other. BTW, a 3-4-5 is roughly 37° and 53° for the two angles as demonstrated above.
I was in high school in the late 70s, and programmable calculators where the IN thing with us Geeks. If I remember right I had a Casio FX502P. For the day, it was pretty awesome, and left my buddies TI's for dead. Not sure what happened to it, but I still have an FX502P programming manual on book shelf if anyone needs one. It's about 8X the size of the actual calculator, but we wrote programs for it to play Tic-Tac-Toe. It was unbeatable, best you could do was draw.
Now my phone has about a million times more computing power
I keep a ti-83 in my receipt book it goes with me on every job I like that it can convert fractions to decimals and that its screen shows quite a few entries at once. When I was trying to figure out the angles I needed I had that calculator out...didn't help though!
So are you telling me that there's a way to do it on that calculator? I vaguely remember there being some trig functions on it..
there is a way for sure, but would not have the first one have worked, even though it would just be short of the look you wanted? I'm thinking you wanted it to come flush with the end there? It does look good now, also I'm pretty sure a pile of us have cut and recut angles when fitting things through the years, me and my FIL had a good laugh bout a month ago, trimming out reverse angles, and a baby changing table, :D : D
Quote from: Ianab on November 02, 2015, 10:52:30 PM
I'm sure I learnt how to do that at some point at school, and probably still have a piece of paper to prove it.
But now I tend to lay it out and mark the lines so they fit too. :D
Me too. It's not a shortcut, that's just what works ;)
Quote from: Ianab on November 03, 2015, 01:27:40 AM
I was in high school in the late 70s, and programmable calculators where the IN thing with us Geeks. If I remember right I had a Casio FX502P. For the day, it was pretty awesome, and left my buddies TI's for dead. Not sure what happened to it, but I still have an FX502P programming manual on book shelf if anyone needs one. It's about 8X the size of the actual calculator, but we wrote programs for it to play Tic-Tac-Toe. It was unbeatable, best you could do was draw.
Now my phone has about a million times more computing power
I had a T.I. 84 (still have it). Really wanted the 85 (it had a card reader so you could save programs). I programmed a sub search game (kind of like Mine Field), only the sub was moving! Total geek.
So what is the proper way to figure out what your angles are to make gussets and stuff like this?
An old fellow I knew would have said," It's on the framing square, see if you can find it". Same as laying out stair horse or a bird's mouth.
Quote from: whiskers on November 03, 2015, 11:29:55 AM
So what is the proper way to figure out what your angles are to make gussets and stuff like this?
Using the photo in the OP as a guide:
1) Measure the vertical side--call it V
2) Measure the horizontal side--call it H
3) Call the angle farthest to the left A
Tan(A) = V/H, so
A = Arctan V/H
So you have two of the three angles in the triangle, since you know one of them is the 90. The third angle is
180 - 90 - A
Tim
Quote from: 4x4American on November 02, 2015, 09:22:24 PM
BTW, just noticed that's a Jim Rogers special sawhoss thanks for the video on that!
You're welcome.
And oh yea what TimRB said....
Here is the finished product. I got it all done today and sharpened 7-8 chains. It's one of those Timber Tuff ones or whatever from TSC. ~$150. I was told that they are basically the same thing as an Oregon 511ax. Well, they are close, but definitely not the same. After working out a few bugs, it works well, and I would recommend it to a friend who wants to go the cheaper route. But if you can afford it, the 511ax is a better grinder.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34510/IMG_3479.JPG)
:D I was making a handrail for the garage, measured twice, cut once and no joy. I forgot that the face of an angled cut is longer so the top of the horizontal rail was not flush with it's mate on the stairs. I do know better, my dad was a shop teacher but it's been a long time. My story and I'm sticking to it.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables! :D And remember the Indian you learned about in Geometry class, SohCahToa (IIRC).
I learned it as "
Oscar
Had
A Heap
Of
Apples" (for Sin, Cos, and Tan). Still use that phrase all the time! :P
:D :D I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Quote from: 4x4American on November 03, 2015, 09:18:29 PM
:D :D I cut it twice and it's still too short!
You need to accent the positive - only at one end.
Gerald
:D :D
:D I have never heard it put that way before. (new old saying)
I use my digital angle finder, or call my oldest son. Give him the numbers, wait till he calls back.
Quote from: Brian_Weekley on November 03, 2015, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables! :D And remember the Indian you learned about in Geometry class, SohCahToa (IIRC).
I learned it as "Oscar Had A Heap Of Apples" (for Sin, Cos, and Tan). Still use that phrase all the time! :P
I'm with Brian... that's how I learned it as well...
That sharpener also looks the same as Grizzlys. Just a different color.
I got a new one in the shop. But I learned to use a diamond cutter
in a dremel and now I don't even take the chain off to sharpen.
Way more smarts here than necessary. :P :P :P
I would of moved the uprite back to make equal distance and cut 45's . I flunked geometry so I go for the work around
String line sliding bevel square set it carry it over to the saw. set saw. cut it DONE! but the other is a chalenge for our minds and we need that to stay young!
If you are gusseting a right angle, put a square on it and mark a plumb and a level cut. I'll get a pic later.
You can measure the horizontal and vertical distances and apply the square accordingly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/20180107_175628.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515373999)
Thanks Dave, wonder why I didnt think of that lol seems so simple
It's how I cut 3-4-5 braces in timber framing.